OT: Nest Thermostat

[Cat3roadracer]

Anyone using one of these? Looks cool, like it could pay itself off in a few months.

[cp43]

Anyone using one of these? Looks cool, like it could pay itself off in a few months.

I think it is a cool technology, and it will pay for itself, but probably not in a few months. I think the site suggested a payoff time of more than a year.

I went to college with one of the founders. He gave a friend of mine a couple units to test out. His only comment is that the "learning" that the thermostat does can get annoying if your routine isn't consistent. If you leave/return at a consistent time each day, it should work well.

Chris

[Richard]

Other than the gee whiz factor of control from mobile devices, I just can't see the payoff between this and a $50.00+/- programmable thermostat that has a daily program mode. I guess there's a marginal improvement in efficiency, but enough to justify the difference in price? Can someone educate me?

[cp43]

Other than the gee whiz factor of control from mobile devices, I just can't see the payoff between this and a $50.00+/- programmable thermostat that has a daily program mode. I guess there's a marginal improvement in efficiency, but enough to justify the difference in price? Can someone educate me?

If you actually program your programmable, the difference is small. Based on info on the NEST site, the the fact that I don't program mine, only a small fraction of programmable thermostats actually get programmed. Most are just used as normal thermostats. The idea with the NEST is that it's easier to program, so you're more likely to do it. Also, it's supposed to be more efficient, by learning your habits, and adjusting the programming accordingly.

If you have already programmed one, and it matches with your habits well, then the NEST probably won't save you much.

It also tracks things by the month, and tells you how "green" you were that month. Which gives you a little incentive (other than saving money) to keep the heat a little lower. This may not work for you if you aren't interested in impressing your thermostat.

Chris

Full disclosure, I do know one of the founders, but I don't have any interest in the company, other than wanting a friend to succeed.

[oldfatslow]

I have a weekend place about an hour and a half from my house. I would like a thermostat I could set via the internet (the house has WIFI). Anyone have such a device?

I've shopped them but I'm seeking personal recommendations.

[Richard]

Thanks, Chris. That is what I figured. I have a programmable thermostat that programs for each day of the week. Other than weekends, I guess I am predictable enough that that is all I need. I hope they succeed and I would be interested in just the gee whiz of the thing if the premium wasn't so high.

[rwsaunders]

Opening the thread after a hiatus on the subject...any long term reports on these units?

Thanks

[gavingould]

i've had a Nest for a couple years. not really worried about payoff, but super easy to change the program, auto-away is nice (it keeps the temp lower when no one is home)

what is interesting/eye-opening is the stats it can give about how many hours per month you ran heat or AC, compared to the previous months and outdoor avg temp.

added the Nest Protect smoke/CO unit a couple months ago when the old detector died.

[SlackMan]

I agree with the comment above that from a pure programmable thermostat perspective, it is way overpriced. A properly programmed programmable thermostat will generate similar benefits for much less money.


And, call me paranoid, but what sort of creeps me out is the versions of Nest that are connected to the web and have built-in microphones for audio commands. This starts to get very close to the devices in Orwell's 1984. With computer networks being as insecure as they are, the last thing I want is an internet accessible mic in my house that is always on and connected to the web.

[bargainguy]

I think the bigger issues are programming updates/bugs and wi-fi connectivity and the resultant problems that can arise with either.

I have heard stories about Nest thermostats that had a mind of their own, would kill A/C units or furnaces for no apparent reason, etc. Compared to a typical programmable thermostat, might be more complicated, therefore more prone to failure or sensitive to factors beyond a typical thermostat. Not sold on the technology yet, maybe in a few years.

[velomonkey]

If you actually program your programmable, the difference is small. Based on info on the NEST site, the the fact that I don't program mine, only a small fraction of programmable thermostats actually get programmed. Most are just used as normal thermostats. The idea with the NEST is that it's easier to program, so you're more likely to do it. Also, it's supposed to be more efficient, by learning your habits, and adjusting the programming accordingly.

Full disclosure, I do know one of the founders, but I don't have any interest in the company, other than wanting a friend to succeed.

OK, wait - two things. First, your "friend" already made it or your confused. NESt sold to google for 3.2 billion. Yes, Billion. That was in January of 2014, almost a year ago.

Two, I have a programmable unit that is maybe 10 years old. It's programmed and it was wicked easy. If you can't program one of those then you probably can't take your own temp or make your own toast.

[velomonkey]

Best review, EVER, (http://www.amazon.com/review/R3IMEYJFO6YWHD/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00FLZEQH2&nodeID=228013&store=hi) of any product. Happens to be a not be a NEST, but it's the same product and a must read.

[jtakeda]

OK, wait - two things. First, your "friend" already made it or your confused. NESt sold to google for 3.2 billion. Yes, Billion. That was in January of 2014, almost a year ago.

Two, I have a programmable unit that is maybe 10 years old. It's programmed and it was wicked easy. If you can't program one of those then you probably can't take your own temp or make your own toast.

If you look at the date stamp, dude posted that comment in 2012.....

[jds108]

OK, wait - two things. First, your "friend" already made it or your confused. NESt sold to google for 3.2 billion. Yes, Billion. That was in January of 2014, almost a year ago.


Cross check the posting dates against the Google purchase...

[velomonkey]

Cross check the posting dates against the Google purchase...

Haha - 2012, didn't see that - looks like this thread was reborn. Maybe someone had a big holiday bash paid for by their friend!!!!

[sitzmark]

Opening the thread after a hiatus on the subject...any long term reports on these units?

Thanks

Two years in operation. Reliable, convenient. No major issues, but there have been a couple of frustrations - temporary bugs resulting from software updates.

These (expensive setback T's) are not justified based on "savings". Every situation is unique, but big daily temperature setbacks are often counterproductive. If the setback takes HVAC offline for 6 hours, but it takes 6 hours to return to the desired temp, then the net effect is zero savings. It's more complicated than that, but general idea noted. The issue is not just the air temp, but reheating/cooling all the mass in the walls, furniture, etc. Insulation is key, as well as the differential between interior and exterior temperatures, wind speed, etc.

If you're away from a property for extended periods of time, remote access T-stats are a convenience that can provide some energy related savings. In my case, I have multiple zones (5 Nests) so I don't ever expect a "return" even though they were all sourced via special offers from utility/gov programs. I do have modest daily setbacks derived from extended observations of Nest's HVAC runtime statistics. The Nest (and similar smart-stats) will "auto calculate" early start times based on indoor/outdoor conditions to attain a desired interior temp by a specific time. Basic setback T-stats work on a "timer" - same on/off time irrespective of other factors. When I'm away for 3,4,5+ days I'll toggle operation to "away mode" (~20 degrees from normal) and remotely resume desired operation 10-12 hours before returning. I don't use the auto-away feature because of the large default differential I have set for away. Auto-away will recognize if you leave at a non-traditional time (learning), but has no ability to predict when you will return... until you actually do return.

My "peripheral" zones were wired with 2-wire leads. Non-battery assisted WiFi thermostats I tried prior to Nest required a 24V "C-wire" for operation. Nest has a rechargeable (built-in) powercell that will (in most systems) charge from the call-to-action lead wire. Alternatives are to run new multi-lead wire or configure a 24V transformer local to each T-stat location. At the time, Nest was my easy way out.

The Nest Protect smoke/CO detector is a nice integrated companion - it will shut down furnace operation if emergency conditions are detected. It, too, can be monitored remotely. There is no hardwire communication lead on Protects for communicating with other detectors or home alarm systems. Protect will communicate with other Protects (and Nests) wirelessly, but is questionable if that meets most current fire code regulations. My local code calls for all heat sensors and smoke/CO detectors to be interconnected by hardwire. I replaced 1 detector with a Protect in a redundant central location and spliced the existing communication wires to retain the integrity of the remaining detectors and heat sensors (and link to alarm system). Again, a little bigger picture to consider than just swapping things in/out.

Bottom line ... overall very reliable. Whether or not a Nest (other) t-stat works for your specific objectives is unique to your situation.

[tlittlefield]

I actually got my Honeywell programmable thermostat for free after rebate from my gas provider Liberty Utilities. I have a 5/2 unit where you program Monday thru Friday with one set of parameters and Sat and Sun with another.

I live alone in a 900 sq ft condo, pay $30/mo in the colder months for my heat. I would say that it works very well and very easy to program.

[FierteTi52]

I have a weekend place about an hour and a half from my house. I would like a thermostat I could set via the internet (the house has WIFI). Anyone have such a device?

I've shopped them but I'm seeking personal recommendations.

I'm in the same situation as you and installed a Honeywell Wifi thermostat. Works great, nice to turn up the heat before I leave home and also monitor the heat during the winter months

[torquer]

Best review, EVER, (http://www.amazon.com/review/R3IMEYJFO6YWHD/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00FLZEQH2&nodeID=228013&store=hi) of any product.
Top ten, sure, but nothing is going to displace the Amazon banana slicer review thread:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2XV0DBIL2KQU4/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0047E0EII&nodeID=284507&store=kitchen

[Mark McM]

These (expensive setback T's) are not justified based on "savings". Every situation is unique, but big daily temperature setbacks are often counterproductive. If the setback takes HVAC offline for 6 hours, but it takes 6 hours to return to the desired temp, then the net effect is zero savings.

This is a common myth, but it has been proven to be untrue many times. It takes less energy to re-cool a building after the HVAC has been off for some time period than it does to maintain a constant temperature during the same time period. Programmable thermostats do pay for themselves over time - and often over a shorter time period than you might think.

[sitzmark]

This is a common myth, but it has been proven to be untrue many times. It takes less energy to re-cool a building after the HVAC has been off for some time period than it does to maintain a constant temperature during the same time period. Programmable thermostats do pay for themselves over time - and often over a shorter time period than you might think.

As noted, it depends on many factors. I know from sorting through historical data generated by the Nest systems that it takes 2-3 hours of continuous boiler operation to bring my house from 60 to 68*F. Similarly it takes 5-7 hours of continuous to move it from 50 to 68.

I also know that an away setting of 50* on Friday morn typically requires 30-180 minutes of non-continuos operation to maintain 50* between Friday morn and Sunday Noon, when heating begins again to deliver 68* by 7pm.

No question when 10+ hours of set back are available the bigger differential works. For the average night of 6 hours, 20 degrees setback is not effective. My selected setback (60) starts at 10:30p (30-60 min before bed) and the request is for 68* at 5am (master) 6am (main floor) when waking. Depending on interior and exterior conditions, boiler starts at 3-4am and runs continuous until 6am to deliver the requested temp. This is typical operation for 15-25* nights, but it depends on wind speed and temperature. Both also determine when/if the house actually falls to 60*.

My heating contractor suggests a max 6* nightly setback to reduce boiler run time, but I haven't yet set it up to collect data.

Most recent snapshot (condensed) is attached. Even with moderate temps over the past couple of weeks, it still takes about 5 hours additional system operation over a normal day to bring the house out of 50* away status.

At $150/t-stat x 5 stats, I'm not looking to get my money back anytime soon.

[scrubadub]

Can't say much about cost savings, but we have one of the early Nest units and like it. It's super easy to use which is more than I can say for all the other "programmable" units we've had before. Before my family would bug me to change the program, now they can do it from their phone.

[SlackMan]

Interesting reading for those thinking of buying a Nest:

http://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/insider-threats/tech-insight-hacking-the-nest-thermostat/d/d-id/1298036

[gavingould]

Interesting reading for those thinking of buying a Nest:

http://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/insider-threats/tech-insight-hacking-the-nest-thermostat/d/d-id/1298036

I'm not at all worried about someone with physical access to the device back-dooring it. If they're in my place already, there's a lot more interesting stuff to mess with than the thermostat.

[SlackMan]

I'm not at all worried about someone with physical access to the device back-dooring it. If they're in my place already, there's a lot more interesting stuff to mess with than the thermostat.

But there are lots of ways to get physical access to a Nest before you even buy it.

[gavingould]

...or anything you've ever bought.

[Schmed]

This is a common myth, but it has been proven to be untrue many times. It takes less energy to re-cool a building after the HVAC has been off for some time period than it does to maintain a constant temperature during the same time period. Programmable thermostats do pay for themselves over time - and often over a shorter time period than you might think.

This is fact. Heat transfer is proportionate to the temperature difference between inside and outside. The lower you let your inside temp get (in the winter), the less heat lost. Even if it takes a longer time to come back to setpoint, you are still money (and BTUs) ahead by setting it way back when you are gone.

[kramnnim]

Top ten, sure, but nothing is going to displace the Amazon banana slicer review thread:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2XV0DBIL2KQU4/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0047E0EII&nodeID=284507&store=kitchen

Wow, better than the 3 wolves shirt. http://www.amazon.com/review/R2XKMDXZHQ26YX/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B002HJ377A&nodeID=1036592&store=apparel