shifting question again.

[giverdada]

hey friends:

i'm riding the nicest bike i've ever been on, a beautiful custom steel by the very excellent carl strong, and running a frankengroup setup that used to shift perfectly, and now doesn't.

the shifting is sluggish in the rear derailleur when dropping into smaller cogs, particularly the 4 smallest. the barrel adjuster is set for no noise among all cogs, and it works fine, most of the time, in the stand, and it's all clean and lubed and wiped dry. i have a lizard skins chainstay guard and the bare cable on the chainstay does touch it, but has never been an issue before.

i'm running athena 11 carbon-wrapped ultrashift with a centaur 10-speed derailleur on a chorus 11 12-27t cassette, original cables and housing. thanks for any tips.

n.

[merlincustom1]

I'd tweak the barrel adjuster a hair clockwise on the sluggish cog. Should be a micro adjustment to get it to drop cleaner.

[thwart]

The actuation ratio is different (slightly, anyway) between Campy 10 and 11 spd rear derailleurs.

'Dave' (an engineer who is around here occasionally) posted an elegant solution to this a couple of years ago, IIRC it was grinding down the thread on the cable fixing bolt...

Do a search.

[oldpotatoe]

hey friends:

i'm riding the nicest bike i've ever been on, a beautiful custom steel by the very excellent carl strong, and running a frankengroup setup that used to shift perfectly, and now doesn't.

the shifting is sluggish in the rear derailleur when dropping into smaller cogs, particularly the 4 smallest. the barrel adjuster is set for no noise among all cogs, and it works fine, most of the time, in the stand, and it's all clean and lubed and wiped dry. i have a lizard skins chainstay guard and the bare cable on the chainstay does touch it, but has never been an issue before.

i'm running athena 11 carbon-wrapped ultrashift with a centaur 10-speed derailleur on a chorus 11 12-27t cassette, original cables and housing. thanks for any tips.

n.

Something is causing some drag in the system. Make sure the 4mm der housing is cut clean and 90 degrees at the lever(no ferrules), and ideally, wrapped behind the handlebars, not in front. make sure the housing is long enough also. Metal(brass is best) ferrules and use a section of 5mm der housing(again with metal ferrules) at the rear der. 10s rear ders 'under' shift a wee bit on 11s systems so the RD may be 'over' adjusted to get the shift to happen.

I modify the attach plate so the cable goes around the knob on the plate, a little longer routing. Hard to explain.

[Ralph]

Maybe have too many chain links. Too long a chain can cause sloppy shifting in small chainring/small cogs. Although I prefer to run a chain on the long side.

[ultraman6970]

Well 1st thing I noticed is that the kid is using 11 shifters with a 10 speed RD???

To make that combination to work you have to file the cable bolt thing so the RD pulls exactly what it should, since you arent mentioning anything about a 10 speed RD doped to work with 11 im assuming that you are using a stock non modified 10 speed RD... "centaur 10-speed derailleur".

If you have everything modified to work together (11 shifters and 10 rd) IMO you have friction somewhere... wonder if you have a cable kink somewhere and thats messing you up. The other problem could be the RD, at some point compagnolo started putting weaker return springs to their RDs and if you have tiny friction somewhere the thing doesnt work as it should because the RD return spring is not able to tight the cable as it should (too weak). Thats the reason why generally speaking record 10 RDs shift no matter what is going on in the bike, even if you recycle old busted cables the bike will shift right all the time. The funny thing is that when something is not working fine with campy is always the middle of the cassette, 4th or 5th cog all the time.

The other thing IMO that could be is that the cable head is too long and you get friction inside of the lever because the cable head is not seated in the right position in the cable spooler. If you installed everything you will know where to look to confirm this, if its not in the right place in the spooler then dremel the head a little bit, quick fix.

Good luck with this one...

[giverdada]

these are awesome responses.

i am, indeed, ultraman, working with a non-modified 10sp rear derailleur. reason being because i'm wary of filing anything on my stuff (not that skilled of a mechanic) that can't be repaired/replaced instantly, and i can't find any visual support of what exactly anyone's talking about. i remember old potatoe's talk of just putting the fixer washer 90-degrees turned and putting the cable around one of its teeth or something, but i don't really understand this and what i've tried hasn't worked.

i am thinking about installing new cables, but would likely be best off with a fresh install of housing and cables, just to be sure. this means trashing my lizard skins tape that's only two months old. uggh. anyway, i'll check things out and let you all know how it went. thanks again so much for all of the responses. i don't know what i'd do without this forum.

[BShow]

With this type of thing, I always check cables first. Slide the cable through the bits of housing individually. feel any drag? Squirt a couple drops of lube in each in there, wipe clean. squirt a couple more drops in there, wipe clean. Feel better? If yes, then ride it for a bit, but you should think about replacing them. Always run new cables and housing when you retape your bars - although it's not overly apparent, the cables and housing wear out too.

[ultraman6970]

This link will help you out.. have pictures and everything.

As for your problem is clear that you will have issues shifting, you are using the wrong RD... IMO it could be because of the RD being 10 speed and not because of friction, untill you get that issue fixed there is no way to know if you have friction or not with certainty you know. No idea whats the tape you have in there but pretty much all the tapes can be used again and again as long you did the rolling in the right direction and you put the tape with enough tension to do not slide off position.

Potato is maybe saying just grab the washer that has 2 like legs or horns that all the 10 speed rd's have and flip it (maybe 90 degrees) and wrap (pass) the cable around it so now is not passing thought the groove it has. I know you do a trick like that to trick campy to use shimano or shimano in campy cant remember.

This is the link

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/campy-10-rd-11-speed-drivetrain-160601.html


Good luck.

[cmg]

break down an buy an 11spd centuar rear derailuer......

[oldpotatoe]

This link will help you out.. have pictures and everything.

As for your problem is clear that you will have issues shifting, you are using the wrong RD... IMO it could be because of the RD being 10 speed and not because of friction, untill you get that issue fixed there is no way to know if you have friction or not with certainty you know. No idea whats the tape you have in there but pretty much all the tapes can be used again and again as long you did the rolling in the right direction and you put the tape with enough tension to do not slide off position.

Potato is maybe saying just grab the washer that has 2 like legs or horns that all the 10 speed rd's have and flip it (maybe 90 degrees) and wrap (pass) the cable around it so now is not passing thought the groove it has. I know you do a trick like that to trick campy to use shimano or shimano in campy cant remember.

This is the link

[url]http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/campy-10-rd-11-speed-drivetrain-160601.html[/url


Good luck.

Close but essentially lengthening the cable as it attaches to the RD..make it go around one of the 'pegs', then u8nder the fixing plate. Done it a few times and it works fine..


Wish I had a pic, but I don't.

[ultraman6970]

Oh... around the things instead than in the middle how it should... interesting, thanks for the tip :)

[oldpotatoe]

break down an buy an 11spd centuar rear derailuer......

No such animal..Athena.