Ekimov

[Russell]

Unless I missed it, I haven't heard V Ekimov's named mentioned in all of this. He was finally given the Olympic gold after they took it from Hamilton. We aren't supposed to think he was clean are we?

PS - I undertand the report dealt with US riders, but he seems to have slipped under the radar in all of the discussions

[katematt]

I doubt the Russian version of USADA has the same resources or desire to go after one of their heroes.

Who knows he could be named the winner of one of the tours after all is said and done.

[67-59]

In the US, there seems to be a tendency to build up our heroes, then tear them down. Seems not to be the case in many other places. The DOJ and USADA seemed way too excited about going after Lance, while authorities in other countries would have let the past be the past. Heck - we still have people looking for conspiracies in the JFK shooting, and that's been 50 years....

Can't wait 'till the LeMond investigation starts.

And before anyone comes here and claims I still believe Lance is innocent - I don't. Of course he doped...like everyone else. The point is not whether he doped, it's whether it makes sense to go after him years after the fact and strip him of his titles, when all the testimony seems to indicate that "everybody" in the peloton doped. So is this testimony going to strip "everybody" of their participation too?

[Grant McLean]

The point is not whether he doped.

It isn't?

-g

[54ny77]

Sure he's clean, no doubt. Every Soviet athlete in state run sports programs from the 80's and so forth were fed very nutritious blini's.

http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/liar.jpg

[67-59]

It isn't?

-g

That's news to you? Wow - you must be the last.

[Grant McLean]

That's news to you? Wow - you must be the last.

You misunderstood my remark. The only point for me personally is the
question of who doped. Your supposition that it doesn't matter if Lance
doped is wrong.

-g

[67-59]

You misunderstood my remark. The only point for me personally is the question of who doped. Your supposition that it doesn't matter if Lance
doped is wrong.

-g

And you misunderstood mine. It has been pretty clearly established that Lance doped...but if you believe the evidence which showed that, it has also become apparent that the rest of the pro peloton did too. So for me the key point is trying to understand why the one doper who beat the other 179 dopers is being treated as public enemy number one, while the vast majority of the other dopers seem to be getting a free pass. If it personally matters to you who doped, are you not troubled by the fact that most of the doped-up peloton is being ignored?

[whforrest]

Like many of us we like Ekimov. It's concerning that he will be managing a team. Kinda like vino. I wonder what his actual stance on doping is. out of most of the postal riders I am sure it was easiest for him to dope

[firerescuefin]

And you misunderstood mine. It has been pretty clearly established that Lance doped...but if you believe the evidence which showed that, it has also become apparent that the rest of the pro peloton did too. So for me the key point is trying to understand why the one doper who beat the other 179 dopers is being treated as public enemy number one, while the vast majority of the other dopers seem to be getting a free pass. If it personally matters to you who doped, are you not troubled by the fact that most of the doped-up peloton is being ignored?

Your logic mystifies me...you catch who you can. USADA can't control the Spanish or Italian federations. There is a reason people set up camp in Spain...and it isn't for the beautiful women, sunsets, and great climbing. I believe this has the potential to be a game changer. My hope is that this spurs the start of a breakaway league...that basically sponsors come forward and say things have to change in a big way...riders' union ...etc

You make Lance out to be this sympathetic figure that is being made an example of...c'mon now

[Grant McLean]

So for me the key point is trying to understand why the one doper who beat the other 179 dopers is being treated as public enemy number one, while the vast majority of the other dopers seem to be getting a free pass. If it personally matters to you who doped, are you not troubled by the fact that most of the doped-up peloton is being ignored?

Say what? Levi just had his results stripped back to 1999 - that's just one example.

It's an often repeated myth that Lance is somehow being treated differently
and everyone else. Don't you get the irony? Lance is being treated exactly
the same as every other doper who has ever been sanctioned.

It is beyond my understanding how the current situation in cycling
can be charactered as "the doped-up peloton is being ignored"

hello???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

[67-59]

Your logic mystifies me...you catch who you can. USADA can't control the Spanish or Italian federations. There is a reason people set up camp in Spain...and it isn't for the beautiful women, sunsets, and great climbing. I believe this has the potential to be a game changer. My hope is that this spurs the start of a breakaway league...that basically sponsors come forward and say things have to change in a big way...riders' union ...etc

You make Lance out to be this sympathetic figure that is being made an example of...c'mon now

Always helps round out a week when you can "mystify" someone.

I'm not trying to make Lance a sympathetic figure - he's as guilty as anyone. But to read these boards, you'd think doping started and will end with Lance. The reality is that if the recent statements are to be taken seriously, the only way to handle this with a straght face is to erase everyone's name.

[67-59]

Say what? Levi just had his results stripped back to 1999 - that's just one example.

It's an often repeated myth that Lance is somehow being treated differently
and everyone else. Don't you get the irony? Lance is being treated exactly
the same as every other doper who has ever been sanctioned.

It is beyond my understanding how the current situation in cycling
can be charactered as "the doped-up peloton is being ignored"

hello???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

OK, now can you provide the list of riders - in the peloton where "everybody doped" - who have not been sanctioned?

Hello???

[G-Reg]

..... My hope is that this spurs the start of a breakaway league...

Be careful with what you wish for.

If the LA machine things they can pull it off and profit from it, I could see him trying to be the silent sponsor behind a new league.

[firerescuefin]

Whose giving these guys a free pass? Not me. Lance...ass a complete POS as a human being has a special place in my heart...so I am enjoying this. If thats what you're talking about...then guilty as charged.

[67-59]

Whose giving these guys a free pass? Not me.

Good. Then you'll agree that the only logical way to handle the record books would be either (1) to totally delete all results from the period where "everybody doped"; or (2) keep them in the order they finished (including Lance, Floyd, etc), then put an asterisk saying "everybody doped at this race."

If you feel differently -- if you believe they should only remove some names and retain others even though "everybody doped" -- then you are giving them a free pass.

Given your statement that you aren't giving anybody a free pass, you'll naturally agree with one of the solutions in the first paragraph...right?

[firerescuefin]

No issue:)

[merlincustom1]

And before anyone comes here and claims I still believe Lance is innocent - I don't. Of course he doped...like everyone else. The point is not whether he doped, it's whether it makes sense to go after him years after the fact and strip him of his titles, when all the testimony seems to indicate that "everybody" in the peloton doped. So is this testimony going to strip "everybody" of their participation too?

Some points:

1. USADA didn't get to choose the evidence that came before it. Their job is to prosecute doping offenses. In that sense, they didn't "go after" him.

2. Lance was one of 6 named defendants in the charging letter. He could have saved some of his titles, possibly 5 of them, if he cooperated and cut a deal to keep the ones after the 8 year statute of limitations expired.

3. "Years after the fact" is really just 2 years. He was still competing in triathlons governed by WADA/USADA, and his suspect non-analyticals were from '09-'10.

4. Not "everybody" doped. The testimony names a finite number of people. USADA has jurisdiction only over the American riders. Some of the redacted riders may yet have charges brought against them. Many Europeans from that era have already been sanctioned.

5. The confessing riders have been sanctioned. The six months is a joke, of course, but it's something. Their teams could still ****can them.

This prosecution is major and could be a watershed moment going forward, assuming the UCI gets out of the enforcement business.

[Grant McLean]

But to read these boards, you'd think doping started and will end with Lance.

I don't agree all at with this characterization.
Every caught star doper has been skewered.

Floyd, Tyler, Alberto, Vino, Basso, Ullrich,
Riccardo Riccò, Rasmussen, Di Luca, Bernhard Kohl
Iban Mayo, Virenque all are ridiculed as villains.


-g

[scogordo]

amazing that cyclists continue to dope, yet those 300lb NFL linemen who run 5 second 40s don't use HGH or other banned substances. oh wait, the NFL doesn't test for it.

this is barely a story.

[leooooo]

Nfl does test but like the Olympics, the threshold is stupid high. So no one fails, thus no one "doped"

[firerescuefin]

amazing that cyclists continue to dope, yet those 300lb NFL linemen who run 5 second 40s don't use HGH or other banned substances. oh wait, the NFL doesn't test for it.

this is barely a story.

Actually it is a story. This isn't an NFL board.

[RobertLStinson]

I read/heard a recent quote from Tyler Hamilton (either from his book or a recent TV interview, I forget which) in which he was asked what he thought about his olympic gold medal going down the line to Eki. He eluded to something like 'if he can live with himself, then it's fine with me'.

It didn't sound like he was very confident that Eki was any cleaner than he was.