Blood tests indicate doping, expert (Asheden) says

[djg21]

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Blood-tests-indicate-doping-expert-says-3927234.php#ixzz28hx7K5uV

Michael Ashenden, an Australian scientist who helped create a test for the blood-doping substance EPO, said that an analysis of blood samples drawn in 2009 that was contained in an earlier court filing suggests that Armstrong was recklessly using banned doping methods in an effort to win the Tour de France one more time. He finished third that year.

The tip-off, Ashenden said in an interview and follow-up e-mail, is found in three weeks' worth of telltale readings in Armstrong's so-called "biological passport," a log of blood tests sometimes used as evidence in cheating probes.

The readings show that during the race, Armstrong's body produced fewer young blood cells than would be expected, Ashenden said. That suggests his system was adapting to the presence of an extra volume of blood that had been reinfused - and that suggests cheating, Ashenden said.

"Suppressed red blood cell production is a classic signature associated with blood doping," he wrote. "The body reacts to the presence of excess red cells in circulation by suppressing the bone marrow's production of new cells."

[bikinchris]

Sorry, deleted.

Beating a dead horse again are we?

[false_Aest]

lance used steer blood shipped in from dallas fort worth

in related news American Airlines has stated that it will no longer tie down seats with LiveStrong bracelets.

[ultraman6970]

Im not defending LA but his lawyer kind'a right, or you pass the test or you dont. If the guy clearly has modded blood and stuff but his blood is at the limit of what is legal then it is considered dopping? If you look at it this way then he wasn't doped because he was off what is considered ilegal?

Probably the issue is more moral than technical...

[Vientomas]

It is not quite so simplistic. USADA and WADA define "doping" quite a bit more broadly.

DEFINITION OF DOPING
Doping, as defined by the Code, is the occurrence of one or more of the following anti-doping rule violations:
➤ Presence of a Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers in an
Athlete’s Sample.
➤ Use or Attempted Use by an Athlete of a Prohibited Substance or a Prohibited Method.
➤ Refusing or failing without compelling justification to submit to Sample collection after notification as authorized in applicable anti-doping rules, or otherwise evading Sample collection.
➤ Violation of applicable requirements regarding Athlete availability for Out-of Competition Testing including failure to file required whereabouts information and missed tests which are declared based on rules which comply with the International Standard for Testing. Any combination of three missed tests and/or filing failures within an eighteen-month period as determined by Anti-Doping Organizations with jurisdiction over the Athlete shall constitute an anti-doping rule violation.
➤ Tampering or Attempted Tampering with any part of Doping Control.
➤ Possession of Prohibited Substances and Prohibited Methods.
➤ Trafficking or Attempted Trafficking in any Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method.
➤ Administration or Attempted administration to any Athlete In-Competition of any Prohibited Method or Prohibited Substance, or administration or Attempted administration to any Athlete Out-of-Competition of any Prohibited Method or any Prohibited Substance that is prohibited Out-of-Competition, or assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up or any other type of complicity involving an anti-doping rule violation or any Attempted anti-doping rule violation.

See: http://www.usada.org/uploads/2012_athlete_handbook.pdf

[sfscott]

That LA is a freak of nature and does not see his blood break down at the same rate as others'?

The guy does have abnormally high VO2 Max, so why not other advantages?

[firerescuefin]

That LA is a freak of nature and does not see his blood break down at the same rate as others'?

The guy does have abnormally high VO2 Max, so why not other advantages?

They are all freaks of nature...and his Vo2 max is not abnormally high compared to other elite riders. That is a fallacy

[jerome]

Do you think that all this will make this world better ?

ok we all know now - and we are no so naive that we would need testing to think of it.

So or you watch the show for what it is ?

Or you go riding and turn it off but stop useless polemic !

and in the middle buy or not those little pro goodies but try to do it for you and look at you as you are - none of us is Armstrong even under drugs influence.

Open your eyes and be yourself

the World has more problem to solve I am sure you will find another cause to be revolted against

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . with some friends and they were wonderful. We had a great time, I met some great new friends, ate great food, and had some good healthy workouts.

THAT is real cycling.

BBD

[Elefantino]

. . . with some friends and they were wonderful. We had a great time, I met some great new friends, ate great food, and had some good healthy workouts.

THAT is real cycling.
True that.

My wife and I were on the Bola del Mundo to watch the penultimate Vuelta stage; it was my wife's first time watching European pro racing and she loved it. That is real cycling too.

We were joined by our daughter, who is studying in Spain, for the Madrid stage and she loved it. That is real cycling too.

And occasionally I like to go out for a solo ride, with a song in my head, just to ride. That is real cycling too.

Damn wonderful sport, this.

[Fixed]

No
He
Didn't :eek:
Cheers :bike:

[merlincustom1]

That LA is a freak of nature and does not see his blood break down at the same rate as others'?

The guy does have abnormally high VO2 Max, so why not other advantages?

Not so. 82 maybe, much lower than Indurain and LeMond. It's part of the Lance myth, along with Coyle's debunked "18% improvement in efficiency."

[William]

Do you think that all this will make this world better ?

ok we all know now - and we are no so naive that we would need testing to think of it.

So or you watch the show for what it is ?

Or you go riding and turn it off but stop useless polemic !

and in the middle buy or not those little pro goodies but try to do it for you and look at you as you are - none of us is Armstrong even under drugs influence.

Open your eyes and be yourself

the World has more problem to solve I am sure you will find another cause to be revolted against

I'll give you the point that the Lance threads are getting old. But, cycling is it's own little universe and Lance and his deeds are an important part of that universe. Being a cycling centered forum it is inevitable that the topic will keep coming up.

My advice to all is this:
If you are tired of the topic, don't open the thread.
If you can't comment on the topic constructively (or humorously), don't comment.
If you can't comment without baiting or trolling, don't comment.
If you can't comment without resorting to personal attacks, don't comment...it will get you a warning and/or suspension from the forum.

I think that is pretty clear.




William

[sworcester]

My advice to all is this:
If you are tired of the topic, don't open the thread.
If you can't comment on the topic constructively (or humorously), don't comment.
If you can't comment without baiting or trolling, don't comment.
If you can't comment without resorting to personal attacks, don't comment...it will get you a warning and/or suspension from the forum.

I think that is pretty clear.


William

:banana:
Now can we apply this to Facebook too?

[Dave B]

That LA is a freak of nature and does not see his blood break down at the same rate as others'?

The guy does have abnormally high VO2 Max, so why not other advantages?

I wondered about this as well. Is there a way to show these blood results w/o the use of a transfusion? I am not a doctor, but lie about it when at the bars, but if an athlete isn't at their fittest right at the beginning, could one improve their fitness during the race? If it is possible, would the blood begin to deteriorate as it was stated in the article?

I have no delusions that he is a bread and water champ, but are people speculating too much (the experts I mean) that he was on or using somehting at this stage in the game?

[tuscanyswe]

Ive had some hormones issues in the past. And i would get caught with values out of range if i was to get tested. I dont touch drugs and i dont even drink alcohol. Just saying that having an abnormal test value does not by default mean you took a performance increasing substance.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . it seems that getting any kind of reliable information from all parties about Armstrong's true natural physical abilities would be just about impossible. Way too many vested interests and conflicts of interest.

I have seen multiple seemingly credible reports that have debunked the claim that Armstrong has naturally high Vo2 max. It's good but nothing special or mutant. The research supposedly showing how the cancer and chemo improved his power output has also been challenged on several fronts.

As I recall, there were some pretty big problems withn the research procedures and methodology. Also, if Armstrong was doping at the time of the experiments unknown to the reasearchers (and I think at this point that's a very good possiblitiy that he was) then that obviously invalidates the whole thing.

BBD

[G-Reg]

I'm confused!

Other than Tony T, is there anyone left that doesn't KNOW Lance doped?

Really!?

[Elefantino]

is there anyone left that doesn't KNOW Lance doped?
Apparently. Hard to fathom, but apparently.

Still, it appears the debate has shifted somewhat, from guilt or innocence to the question of the veracity of those making the accusations. It's thus far been a fairly effective strategy.

[Germany_chris]

TonyT knows he doped..

He just wants proof from credible sources i.e. not the USADA or anyone under their sphere of influence.

[goonster]

Is there a way to show these blood results w/o the use of a transfusion?
No plausible scenario has been presented.

When you bank blood in the off-peak, and then reinfuse during a three-week tour, the results look like this:

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/AurelioL/armstrongblood2009.jpg