Sucrose, glucose and fructose

[rbtmcardle]

In my search for nutritional info and ammunition I found this article.. I just watched the entire 1.5 hour video.. It surely is eye opening.

The NY times article is here http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

The video which was the basis of the article http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&sns=em

[LO^OK]

In my search for nutritional info and ammunition I found this article.. I just watched the entire 1.5 hour video.. It surely is eye opening.

The NY times article is here http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

Concentrated refined carbohydrates are the energy equivalent of cocaine or amphetamines - as they deregulate the neuronal mediation so the "sugars" wreak havoc with insulin regulation and response. I couldn't believe what pro cyclists are fed with (surprise surprise the conference is sponsored by Powerbar and Nestle, http://www.nestlenutrition-institute.org/resources/library/Free/sportConference/snc20111206/Documents/SNC2011-Mallorca-Booklet.pdf); these guys are treated like disposables, and the classic PED abuses are only the tip of the iceberg.

There is, however, a gross inaccuracy in the article. The metabolism of Fructose do not necessarily leads to the synthesis of fats (triglycerides). Rather, it produce a common metabolite that could be steered by the body regulatory mechanisms in either direction: synthesis of glycogen or fats. For the unfamiliar, all fruits bar grapes (=Glucose) contain Fructose.

[LO^OK]

In my search for nutritional info and ammunition I found this article..

Actually the issue is much broader because it is suspected that the entire group of refined carbohydrates, i.e. apart from sweets/sweeteners all bread and pastry including the pasta (yes, pasta), do contribute to the disruption and the long term damage of the insulin system. I can't recall where I read that the annual rate of Diabetes 2 growth exceed those of cancers and hearth decease combined!

[MattTuck]

That video has come up on here before. Very interesting.

I try to eat less refined sugar, and generally do a good job outside of ice cream and some sweets. Doing much better than I used to.

[rbtmcardle]

Understood... the video gets into the specific processes of how each is metabolized.. WAY above my brain capacity.. in the video he specifically addresses fructose in fruit packaged with fiber is metabolized differently than fructose alone.

I just know that refined sugars are bad.. its been amazing the difference in my weight, fatigue, energy and mood since i have eliminated these things from my diet.

Actually the issue is much broader because it is suspected that the entire group of refined carbohydrates, i.e. apart from sweets/sweeteners all bread and pastry including the pasta (yes, pasta), do contribute to the disruption and the long term damage of the insulin system. I can't recall where I read that the annual rate of Diabetes 2 growth exceed those of cancers and hearth decease combined!

[LO^OK]

Understood... in the video he specifically addresses fructose in fruit packaged with fiber is metabolized differently than fructose alone.

I can't watch the video at the moment, but that must be correct because the "micro-dosing" of the carbohydrates while naturally "packaged" with fibre and other nutrients is crucial in eliciting more mild/better insulin response; and equally important, is a big factor in the quality of body energy processing and storage. Food containing large proportion of concentrated carbohydrates (or alcohol) tend to release big quantity of energy akin to explosion, which is hypothesised, cannot be converted effectively in the most accessible and desirable form (ATF); hence some of the released energy get channelled instead into fat tissue which is a form of long term energy storage.

Supplying excess of energy is apparently a very bad idea as alluded to in several places in the article. Cancer (in essence cells gone mad as they cannot stop replicating themselves) was cited several times, and cancer cells demand a lot of energy. So the link between continuous excessive energy intake-disruption of the insulin regulation-corruption of internal energy processing and storage-and contributing at some stage to cancer development is not that far fetched.

[MadRocketSci]

Actually the issue is much broader because it is suspected that the entire group of refined carbohydrates, i.e. apart from sweets/sweeteners all bread and pastry including the pasta (yes, pasta), do contribute to the disruption and the long term damage of the insulin system. I can't recall where I read that the annual rate of Diabetes 2 growth exceed those of cancers and hearth decease combined!

The article does state that fructose is worse than glucose. IIR my high school bio, breads and pastas break down mainly to glucose, so those are less bad as far as the "toxic" effect of sugar/HFC.

The phrase Lustig uses when he describes this concept is “isocaloric but not isometabolic.” This means we can eat 100 calories of glucose (from a potato or bread or other starch) or 100 calories of sugar (half glucose and half fructose), and they will be metabolized differently and have a different effect on the body. The calories are the same, but the metabolic consequences are quite different.

The fructose component of sugar and H.F.C.S. is metabolized primarily by the liver, while the glucose from sugar and starches is metabolized by every cell in the body. Consuming sugar (fructose and glucose) means more work for the liver than if you consumed the same number of calories of starch (glucose). And if you take that sugar in liquid form — soda or fruit juices — the fructose and glucose will hit the liver more quickly than if you consume them, say, in an apple (or several apples, to get what researchers would call the equivalent dose of sugar). The speed with which the liver has to do its work will also affect how it metabolizes the fructose and glucose.

In animals, or at least in laboratory rats and mice, it’s clear that if the fructose hits the liver in sufficient quantity and with sufficient speed, the liver will convert much of it to fat. This apparently induces a condition known as insulin resistance, which is now considered the fundamental problem in obesity, and the underlying defect in heart disease and in the type of diabetes, type 2, that is common to obese and overweight individuals. It might also be the underlying defect in many cancers.

[LO^OK]

The article does state that fructose is worse than glucose. IIR my high school bio, breads and pastas break down mainly to glucose, so those are less bad as far as the "toxic" effect of sugar/HFC.

Lets wait a bit before demonising the Fructose.... Nutrition articles in the popular media are always assuming the posture of "objective" when in fact most are driven by commercial agenda with cherry picked research to support the said agenda. There are huge money in the food industry therefore it's not so wild to allege that money-interests are used to shape research results, and especially what get heard in the public space.

Processed carbohydrates (including bread and pasta), along with the other big money food, extracted oils and fats, simply do not exist in the purified concentrated form in nature. I think this fact matters a lot when one considers that human evolution progressed for more than 2 millions of years; it is thought that we reached our present form in terms of anatomy and physiology around 200 000 years ago; and agriculture got invented around 10 000 years ago. That is to say that our nutritional needs are not intrinsically linked to the highly processed form of grains that constitute one of the major branches of the food industry. In fact there is a lot of evidence pointing exactly in the opposite direction, that substituting bread, pasta and pastry for simpler non processed grains like quality rice, quinoa or stone ground corn flour (a particular kind of polenta) is nutritionally beneficial. AFAIK all non processed grains provide less energy per given volume when compared to the highly processed carbohydrates that are the staple of the Western eating culture. So, as with many things in life, Less may be More...

[MadRocketSci]

Yeah, not implying that pure starches are good/not bad...but, just making the case that starches < sugars in terms of negative metabolic effects. Or, put a different way, I can cut out sweets but breads and pastas are about the last thing I would want to drastically reduce, and thus any factoid like this helps my internal justifications.

I don't find it hard to believe that the whole grain equivalent is better nutritionally for you, just that I like the "processed" white versions of crusty bread, pasta so much better...

Plus, it seems that many people who live on white starches and good fats (the japanese, mediterraneans) seem to do ok...

[rbtmcardle]

This entire discussion is way above my understanding / education... but if you have a chance, watch the video.. he does speak specifically of the difference in the metabolic processes of both glucose and fructose.. it seems as though you are able to follow / understand the science behind it.. where as I am not.. thanks for the insight.

Lets wait a bit before demonising the Fructose.... Nutrition articles in the popular media are always assuming the posture of "objective" when in fact most are driven by commercial agenda with cherry picked research to support the said agenda. There are huge money in the food industry therefore it's not so wild to allege that money-interests are used to shape research results, and especially what get heard in the public space.

Processed carbohydrates (including bread and pasta), along with the other big money food, extracted oils and fats, simply do not exist in the purified concentrated form in nature. I think this fact matters a lot when one considers that human evolution progressed for more than 2 millions of years; it is thought that we reached our present form in terms of anatomy and physiology around 200 000 years ago; and agriculture got invented around 10 000 years ago. That is to say that our nutritional needs are not intrinsically linked to the highly processed form of grains that constitute of the major branches of the food industry. In fact there is a lot of evidence that point exactly in the opposite direction, that substituting bread, pasta and pastry for simpler non processed grains like quality rice, quinoa or stone ground corn flour (a particular kind of polenta) is nutritionally beneficial. AFAIK all non processed grains provide less energy per given volume when compared to the highly processed carbohydrates that are the staple of the Western eating culture. So, as with many things in life, Less may be More...

[LO^OK]

I like the "processed" white versions of crusty bread, pasta so much better...

Sure, they could be delicious.

[LO^OK]

if you have a chance, watch the video..

Thanks, I will.

[CunegoFan]

I can't watch the video at the moment, but that must be correct because the "micro-dosing" of the carbohydrates while naturally "packaged" with fibre and other nutrients is crucial in eliciting more mild/better insulin response; and equally important, is a big factor in the quality of body energy processing and storage.

Just buy the "with pulp" orange juice and everything's good. :)

Sounds like a suspect explanation for why sugar laden fruit is somehow different than sugar laden Pop Tarts.

[LO^OK]

Just buy the "with pulp" orange juice and everything's good. :)

Sounds like a suspect explanation for why sugar laden fruit is somehow different than sugar laden Pop Tarts.

Had to check what is Pop Tarts.... sure, it's almost the same as "sugar laden fruit"...

[aaronv]

Just buy the "with pulp" orange juice and everything's good. :)

Sounds like a suspect explanation for why sugar laden fruit is somehow different than sugar laden Pop Tarts.


Lustig's argument is that fiber in the fruit slows down the absorption of the fructose and triggers your existing bodily process to inform your brain that you become full and to therefore stop eating. The issue with something like a Pop Tart is that it is loaded with fructose to enhance the flavor and usually low in fiber.

He is also not a proponent of juices even with the pulp. :)