Frame tubing question

[sokyroadie]

I am considering ordering a Mercian frameset (steel fork), I ordered one in 1984 that I rode for 20 years. I know there are many US builders that can build an equal or better frame, and I may go that route, but I am still interested in Mercian.

The frame I am considering (filet brazed) is available in many Reynolds tubesets but I am not sure of the differences. I want a frame capable of wider tires 28/32c and more relaxed geometry. Weight is not a big issue, but I could find no info. on Reynolds site.

I am 5'7" 155# and dont really need the OS from a stiffness standpoint, but I like the looks a little better.

The choices and price are:

631 - $1328,
631 OS - $1377
725 - $1474
725 OS - $1523
853 - $1620
853 OS - $1669
853 Pro Team - $1685
853 Pro Team OS - $1733

Comments please.

Thanks,
Jeff

[ultraman6970]

At your weight even the old 531 will do. Personally i dont like 531 but yes you are lucky :) size and weight arent an issue with you :)

Reynolds 953 – maraging stainless steel
Reynolds 853 – heat-treated air-hardening steel
Reynolds 725 – heat-treated Chrome-molybdenum steel
Reynolds 631 – cold-drawn air-hardening steel
Reynolds 525 - cold-drawn chrome-molybdenum steel

http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pdf/rtl_steel_alloys_extract.pdf

http://www.bretonbikes.com/stee.htm

http://www.strongframes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/frameparts.pdf



Read that...

[christian]

Very very broadly:

OS means oversized. The top tube will be 28.6mm and the downtube will be 31.8mm. Non-os is standard, with a 25.4 top tube and a 28.6mm downtube. Seat tubes in all cases are 28.6mm.

OS frames, generally, will be somewhat stiffer due to the larger tube diameter, and can and sometimes do, use thinner walls for lighter weight, as a result.

631 is the newer version of the venerated 531 - manganese-moly-alloyed steel. Non-heat treated.

725 is a heat treated cro-moly steel alloy, perhaps marginally stronger, and perhaps drawn thinner.

853 is heat-treated "modern" steel manganese-moly alloy. High yield-strength, can be drawn even thinner. Pro Team presumably means drawn thinner - likely .7mm-.4mm-.7mm, instead of 8-5-8.

Most like a classic: 631
Stiffest: 631 or 725 OS
Lightest: 853 Pro Team OS

[EricEstlund]

Does Mercian ask you to choose the tubing?

When designing a bike, I prefer to find out about the rider and their uses and make the best I can for them. The specific tubes will vary. Seems odd (to me) to have the client suggest specific pipes.

Regardless of who you choose (Mercian or another) I'd suggest getting in touch with them, describing yourself and how you will use the bike, and go with their guidance on the materials.

[slowpoke]

^ Sage advice there.

You should check out this old article on tubing from Bicycle Guide (http://www.habcycles.com/m7.html). It was linked in another tubing thread (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=107943).

[Peter P.]

You will not be able to discern the differences in the type of tubing used in a frame as readily as you will differences in tube diameter, then wall thickness.

I wouldn't concern yourself with the type of tubing. You could choose the diameter even if because you only like the look as you said. I'd suggest you choose the frame tubing based on what you can afford and talking with Mercian about your needs i.e, ride quality, durability, etc. and letting them make the decision based on their experience.

[ctcyclistbob]

you will not be able to discern the differences in the type of tubing used in a frame as readily as you will differences in tube diameter, then wall thickness.

I wouldn't concern yourself with the type of tubing. You could choose the diameter even if because you only like the look as you said. I'd suggest you choose the frame tubing based on what you can afford and talking with mercian about your needs i.e, ride quality, durability, etc. And letting them make the decision based on their experience.

+1

[froze]

I am considering ordering a Mercian frameset (steel fork), I ordered one in 1984 that I rode for 20 years. I know there are many US builders that can build an equal or better frame, and I may go that route, but I am still interested in Mercian.

The frame I am considering (filet brazed) is available in many Reynolds tubesets but I am not sure of the differences. I want a frame capable of wider tires 28/32c and more relaxed geometry. Weight is not a big issue, but I could find no info. on Reynolds site.

I am 5'7" 155# and dont really need the OS from a stiffness standpoint, but I like the looks a little better.

The choices and price are:

631 - $1328,
631 OS - $1377
725 - $1474
725 OS - $1523
853 - $1620
853 OS - $1669
853 Pro Team - $1685
853 Pro Team OS - $1733

Comments please.

Thanks,
Jeff

I own a Mercian (Vincitore Special), actually special ordered in Derby while I was visiting the UK in 2007, their great bikes, congrats on deciding on them, you won't be sorry. Their also the last manufacture left that preheats the entire frame in a oven when brazing instead of spot heating one area with the brazer, truly old school but actually works better.

It depends on what your after, personally I went with their suggestions of using 631 due to me wanting a touring bike, and 631 had the comfort level of 531 but a bit stronger and a bit lighter and bit more resistent to dents then the others. It was a superb suggestion because that bike rides like a dream and looks fantastic. My biggest problem with the Mercian was choosing the right color!!! I did pay to have a second clear coat applied over the paint and decals just to protect that stuff better.

If you're wanting a racing type of steel bike and will be hammering mountains then go with the 853 pro team OS, this frame will give you the stiffness you need for that kind of activity and still be reasonably lightwieght.

Other wise if you looking just for a combination comfort without the ability to tour long distances then I would just use 725 without the OS.

But that's my opinion. I would call or e-mail Mercain to get their professional opinion and tell them exactly what your intended use is and your weight. Get their advice on the type of dropouts, rear end width, wheel size, brakes use and the respective bridges if any, mudguards if needed, brake cable guides, headtube height, too. Also before you order make sure you get all the braze ons on the frame you want, like a third set of water bottle bosses, or pump peg, or chain hanger, rack and fender eyes. I opted for everything even though I may not use it but it's good to have in case I do need something. I did not opt for internal cable routing, I don't want water having any inlets into the frame. Speaking of water you can request to have the frame pretreated with a internal rust inhibitor, even though I have old steel bikes and none have rusted without the treatment, in this case I opted for it.

They are nice people and I found them to be really willing and cheerful to help. Sure there are other builders that make just as nice of a bike, but for me there was something about the old school way of doing something that appealed to me. Plus they have fantastic prices on Campy components, I got the Athena group, due to their recommendation for my needs, at prices about 25% less then anyone in the USA would sell the group for. Something you may want to enquire about.

For interest sake let us know what bike you decide on and what tubing and options you selected.

[rodcad]

I have 2 Vincitore's. I had mine made from 531ST (super tourist) tubing because they are BIG frames and love them. Have went thru many bikes since getting these and thru them all these are the only ones that I have kept. Great company.