Just saw a bunch of Passonis

[Nags&Ducs]

at a LBS near my village. They are nice, but honestly, I don't know what all the hoopla is about their frames. They are not anymore nicer than Moots, Eriksen, Seven, Serotta, IF, etc. I know welds aren't the barometer of quality, but it is something that tells us the level of skill of the welder, so we tend to rate Ti builders according to that. All the Passonis I saw today had their welds sanded down. Anytime I see sanding or buffing out of the welded area, it makes me question if there was O2 contamination during the welding. In addition, these frames didn't have anything like swaged tubes, s-bend stays, or welded bosses that I expected to see in such expensive frames. Some folks here always point out welded vice riveted water bottle bosses as another sign of extra effort in creating a masterpiece. I too think rivets make a frame look cheaper, although I understand it is only aesthetics. For a module that costs close to 6,000 Euros, I thought I would see the stuff that would blow me away, but I didn't. For those who have/had a Passoni, I mean no disrespect. Just curious what you saw that made you say, "I have to have it!"

[d_douglas]

WHere are you located? I was living in Geneva and there was a local high-end shop there that sold these bikes.

I think they were over-rated (looking). They might be dreamy to ride, so looks wise, they were nothing special.

However, anyone who wants to ride a bike is in my good books, at least on that count!

[jpw]

WHere are you located? I was living in Geneva and there was a local high-end shop there that sold these bikes.

I think they were over-rated (looking). They might be dreamy to ride, so looks wise, they were nothing special.

However, anyone who wants to ride a bike is in my good books, at least on that count!

Bos?

[Nags&Ducs]

WHere are you located? I was living in Geneva and there was a local high-end shop there that sold these bikes.

I think they were over-rated (looking). They might be dreamy to ride, so looks wise, they were nothing special.

However, anyone who wants to ride a bike is in my good books, at least on that count!

I'm in Stuttgart, Germany. There are a lot of bike shops here but not many that cater to rad fahren otherwise known as road cycling. :) I went to a shop called Frateli Cycle in a village called Holzgerlingen and they had Tommasinis, Viner, Passoni, Bianchi, Casati, San P-something-or-other on the floor. They also carry (but didn't have on the floor) Ciocc and Rewel, and can custom order Sarto. One of the nicest shops that I've been to in Germany.

[choke]

I went to a shop called Frateli Cycle in a village called Holzgerlingen and they had Tommasinis, Viner, Passoni, Bianchi, Casati, San P-something-or-other on the floorSan Patrignano? http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2009/10/san-patrignano.html

[cfox]

I've seen some up close; not my cup of tea. Kinda Barbie-bike; too much color coordination for my liking, like some Speedvagens (I like 'vagens but sometimes they're too much). I prefer riveted bosses, though. In the rare instance a bolt gets stuck or the threads get trashed, they are easily repairable.

[Nags&Ducs]

San Patrignano? http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2009/10/san-patrignano.html

That was it! Boy, you guys here are good!

[Aaron O]

I've seen one Passoni, an older one...and I completely disagree, it was remarkable, including a ti bar/stem combo and ti fork. The integration was like nothing i'd ever seen. When I see sanded welds I just assume its an aesthetic choice, and a good one.

[Nags&Ducs]

I've seen one Passoni, an older one...and I completely disagree, it was remarkable, including a ti bar/stem combo and ti fork. The integration was like nothing i'd ever seen. When I see sanded welds I just assume its an aesthetic choice, and a good one.

I wonder if the older one was made by the hands of the Patron Passoni and if that had something to do with it. Could be that the new ones are lacking because of the skill and vision of the elder Passoni. Just guessing here as these that I saw today were very ordinary.

I was told by Sean Chaney, the owner and principal of Vertigo Cycles (GREAT guy and bikes BTW) that anytime you see buffing near the welds, it is usually due to the builder trying to rid the tubes of the blueish hue that comes from O2 contamination during the welding process. He said that there are usually some blueing but when he looks at a frame and sees a lot of the buffing scrapes that wool pads often leave, it is because of too much contamination. He also said to look inside the tubes near the weld junctions as they won't often buff out the inside of the tubes. The Passoni I saw today is their top frame. Maybe they like that look but I can't help but raise my eyebrow.

[d_douglas]

I've seen one Passoni, an older one...and I completely disagree, it was remarkable, including a ti bar/stem combo and ti fork. The integration was like nothing i'd ever seen. When I see sanded welds I just assume its an aesthetic choice, and a good one.



But a ti bar/stem combo on a super light racing bike that you put aalot of force on seems a bit scary! Old school engineering, but a bad idea in my opinion.

What do I know - I still use alloy bars 'cause I'm scared of breaking a carbon one!

[monkeybanana86]

Never heard of the brand until now. The video on the website of the building process is pretty cool.

Like Nags said though, if I could weld like some of the great builders out there I would show it off! But I understand wanting the clean look. Dremeling (is that a word) and sanding just to hide bad welds is a lot of work.

Remember the Rapha visit to Moots? It's much more revealing in terms of QC. Maybe they should roll through Passoni's shop :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1KTYTnmIxk

[Aaron O]

But a ti bar/stem combo on a super light racing bike that you put aalot of force on seems a bit scary! Old school engineering, but a bad idea in my opinion.

What do I know - I still use alloy bars 'cause I'm scared of breaking a carbon one!
:lol:- I ride all alloy bars as well, but I'd give ti a shot. I like my ti stem just fine.

It was an older Passoni made by the master.

[happycampyer]

There is some speculation that Passoni titanium frames are welded by Marco Bertoletti, who has his own bike brand, Legend, and who used to be a welder at Passoni.

Either way, the frames are welded in a sealed purge chamber (as the video on the website shows) and my understanding is that that process is really cumbersome and it's harder to get the "stack of dimes" look to the welds (one of the reasons why they are filed smooth). The use of a purge chamber seems to be something of an Italian obsession—I recall reading a Q&A in which Darren Crisp had to explain to his Italian customers why he doesn't use one. I'm not aware of any US builder that uses one (places like Roarke have the equipment, but I don't think they use it when they build bikes).

[bheight1]

I'll see one on tomorrow's club ride--no idea how it rides but it is beauty! Timely journal entry on website below, including pix of old Passonis:


http://roadjournal.signaturecycles.com/

[Polyglot]

I own a 20 year old Passoni, with titanium bar/stem combo and titanium fork and titanium seatpost and I can promise you that if you understand how it was built, you will be blown away. It was built from sheet titanium that was made into tubes before being welded. I have shown it to a number of framebuilders who build with titanium and they are all impressed with the result. With today's availability of titanium tubing in different diameters, the production method makes absolutely no sense and the relative purchase price for the frames has actually dropped.

Before Luca Passoni committed suicide, I had been discussing importing and distributing the frames into the US with him. I believe they have a place in the market, even though the competition has removed much of their relevance. The older frames from the 80's and 90's were technical tours de force that will likely never be seen again. The Trecia-branded bikes from the 70's even more so, considering the period in which they were built.

The sanding of the joints is strictly an aethetic choice and I can promise you that it is not to "hide" errors. On my frame this can be verified by checking inside the frame tubes, or inside the handlebars or even the seatpost as they are all seamed. The builder is indeed Bertoletti, even if parts of the final production stages used to be handled internally. On a value basis, I would get a Legend before I got a Passoni.

[Germany_chris]

I'm in Stuttgart, Germany. There are a lot of bike shops here but not many that cater to rad fahren otherwise known as road cycling. :) I went to a shop called Frateli Cycle in a village called Holzgerlingen and they had Tommasinis, Viner, Passoni, Bianchi, Casati, San P-something-or-other on the floor. They also carry (but didn't have on the floor) Ciocc and Rewel, and can custom order Sarto. One of the nicest shops that I've been to in Germany.

The guy who owns that store is nice, the wife not so much.

[gomango]

I own a 20 year old Passoni, with titanium bar/stem combo and titanium fork and titanium seatpost and I can promise you that if you understand how it was built, you will be blown away. It was built from sheet titanium that was made into tubes before being welded. I have shown it to a number of framebuilders who build with titanium and they are all impressed with the result. With today's availability of titanium tubing in different diameters, the production method makes absolutely no sense and the relative purchase price for the frames has actually dropped.

Before Luca Passoni committed suicide, I had been discussing importing and distributing the frames into the US with him. I believe they have a place in the market, even though the competition has removed much of their relevance. The older frames from the 80's and 90's were technical tours de force that will likely never be seen again. The Trecia-branded bikes from the 70's even more so, considering the period in which they were built.

The sanding of the joints is strictly an aethetic choice and I can promise you that it is not to "hide" errors. On my frame this can be verified by checking inside the frame tubes, or inside the handlebars or even the seatpost as they are all seamed. The builder is indeed Bertoletti, even if parts of the final production stages used to be handled internally. On a value basis, I would get a Legend before I got a Passoni.

Always stunning.

What a beauty.