OT: Self-Driving Cars

[Don49]

Lots of recent news and commentary on self-driving (autonomous) vehicles like the Google car. "Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill that would allow self-driving cars on California's roads." http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-self-driving-car-law-20120925,0,4332330.story

And here http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/09/27/self-driving-cars

It does raise some concerns about how these vehicles will interact with bicyclists and other road users. Will there be specific programming to interact with bikes or will we be just another road obstacle to avoid. Will we need to wear iridescent lycra to be recognized as a cyclist by the vehicle?

What if the vehicle finds itself in a moral dilemma, like given the choice between hitting someone crossing the road or swerving into a wall to avoid the person. That type of higher decision making would need to be programmed in or set by the owner.

I'm sure we will hear more about all this when the first self-driving vehicle harasses a cyclist. Perhaps there will be a failsafe mode so that in the event of a computer failure the system will lock onto a cyclist and follow for miles with the horn blowing.

[Dave B]

Lots of recent news and commentary on self-driving (autonomous) vehicles like the Google car. "Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill that would allow self-driving cars on California's roads." http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-self-driving-car-law-20120925,0,4332330.story

And here http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/09/27/self-driving-cars

It does raise some concerns about how these vehicles will interact with bicyclists and other road users. Will there be specific programming to interact with bikes or will we be just another road obstacle to avoid. Will we need to wear iridescent lycra to be recognized as a cyclist by the vehicle?

What if the vehicle finds itself in a moral dilemma, like given the choice between hitting someone crossing the road or swerving into a wall to avoid the person. That type of higher decision making would need to be programmed in or set by the owner.

I'm sure we will hear more about all this when the first self-driving vehicle harasses a cyclist. Perhaps there will be a failsafe mode so that in the event of a computer failure the system will lock onto a cyclist and follow for miles with the horn blowing.

I get the point of this and the desire for safety, but I wouldn't want one. I love driving and controling (even if that is a myth) the car and making it do what I want it to.

[esldude]

All good questions. There might be answers. They have completed at least several hundred thousand miles with a human backup behind the wheel without them ever having needed to intervene. They also have had no accidents except a few where other drivers hit the self driven vehicle.

I love, love driving myself. In recent months I have changed my position on self driving cars. I think we need them and they can't get here fast enough. Simple safety issue. Best I can tell just from my observations nearly 40% of drivers are on the phone. Add in texting and the increasing number of electronic distractions and I think humans simply aren't trustworthy operators of vehicles anymore. I will give up my joy of driving to increase my and other people's chance of living.

Probably not going to happen soon enough however. If it ever becomes the only allowed driving (and when worked out I would make it mandatory were it up to me), then I could open a track or other closed course where driving enthusiasts could come and pay say a $10 fee to drive around all they want. :rolleyes:

[Germany_chris]

The not driving myself is one of the reasons I love the train much more than my car much to my wife's chagrin.

[thegunner]

All good questions. There might be answers. They have completed at least several hundred thousand miles with a human backup behind the wheel without them ever having needed to intervene. They also have had no accidents except a few where other drivers hit the self driven vehicle.

the funniest thing was when the first crash was caused because the driver DID take over.

[christian]

In recent months I have changed my position on self driving cars. I think we need them and they can't get here fast enough. Simple safety issue. Best I can tell just from my observations nearly 40% of drivers are on the phone. Add in texting and the increasing number of electronic distractions and I think humans simply aren't trustworthy operators of vehicles anymore.
[x] Like. When it comes to driving 3000 lbs of vehicle around, I'd prefer a computer who is paying attention to a human who is not.

[Seramount]

I get the point of this and the desire for safety, but I wouldn't want one. I love driving and controling (even if that is a myth) the car and making it do what I want it to.

yeah, same here.

last thing I want to do is sit passively in my own car while I commute.

but, for the huge portion of the driving public who has NO EFFIN CLUE about how to operate a motor vehicle, it sounds like a great idea.

put the mopes in a robo-hoopty and leave me to jam around them in my 6-speed VTEC.

[cnighbor1]

Judge how could I be responsible. Yes I was sitting in the drivers sit but too I was too busy passing the clips and drinks around to notice any traffic. so when.......... car needed my input I was much too late in reacting. So I am sorry but put the car in jail not me.
this will have to played out in multible court cases over the years
Hope it can pick up cyclists and walkers

[MattTuck]

There are three different reasons to adopt this technology, two of them broadly in the same category.

1. Safety. A car paying attention 100% of the time is better than a human paying attention 60% of the time, and easily distracted.

2a. Productivity. People will be able to be more productive during their commute in the form of either additional work or additional leisure, sleep time.

2b. Productivity. Cars will be able to calculate how long trips will take, will know when and where they need to be and can coordinate with other cars to keep roadways moving. Cars can drive at 60mph 1 foot from the bumper ahead of them. If we don't make roads bigger, the only way to handle increases in traffic volume is to make traffic more dense.

[deechee]

Short term these are still test cars - with a human at the wheel. The human is going to do whatever they do to either bump the cyclist or hit the curb.

Regarding your question about moral dilemmas, you're not thinking ahead. The car can process much more data than a human, and far in advance. It should foresee the lack of exit options and brake earlier to avoid both humans. Also, course correcting would add too much error, I'm pretty sure the car won't try to change direction but brake hard in a straight line. I'm pretty sure people who race cars are taught to not deviate from their line when going off course high speed.

As long as we don't turn into a world of lazy humans as depicted in "wall-e", I'm very happy to welcome our self driving car lords.

[dd74]

All this "tech" gives me just one more reason to buy a good old air-cooled...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/2464367275_b4c32e06ab.jpg

[Steve in SLO]

Now that's right purty

[Marburg]

As cyclists I think we can also appreciate a version of the "Top Gear" logic re more efficient/hybrid/electric cars. In their case, they say: if 99% of the everyday cars are "boring" and fuel efficient, doesn't that just leave more petrol for those who truly appreciate it.

Similarly, if self-driving cars can increase the efficiency and packing of major thoroughfares and highways through convoys, etc., doesn't that leave the B- roads more clear for cyclists and those who enjoy driving...

Not to mention the computer will never drive drunk, high, after pulling triple shifts at the factory, etc.

[dd74]

Now that's right purty
Yep. Easy to work on, reasonable fuel mileage, true street/track capability, safe as a tank.

I should know as my old 911 was rear ended by a Volvo station wagon on the Hollywood Freeway; I drove away. The Volvo was totaled.

[dd74]

Not to mention the computer will never drive drunk, high, after pulling triple shifts at the factory, etc.
Right, and meanwhile driver accountability becomes a whitewash. I love when industry seeks a need to supplant human responsibility.

[tannhauser]

I wonder if it knows how to pass the hypermiling Prius in the left lane by passing on the right, thereby potentially saving 3 hours from LA-->SF.

[Louis]

Do self-driving cars throw beer cans at cyclists?

[christian]

Right, and meanwhile driver accountability becomes a whitewash. I love when industry seeks a need to supplant human responsibility.Given that you can run over and kill a cyclist, and as long as you stick around, are sober, and say, "I didn't see him. That giant orb in the sky that people have been living with for 200,000 years blinded me, but I kept driving so I wouldn't be late to Jimmy's soccer practice." you'll get off with, at worst, $150 fine, I suspect that driver accountability leaving the scene has predated self-driving cars.

[MadRocketSci]

Do self-driving cars throw beer cans at cyclists?

and do they dream of electric squirrels?

[Louis]

and do they dream of electric squirrels?

And this is what they dream of:

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

[Fixed]

Riding with mrs fixed or self driving car ...hmm
She needs one of these me too since I can't drive anymore or I shouldn't IMHO
Cheers

[one60]

what happens when the owner of a self-driving car has to take their regular vehicle out for a drive? I can imagine there will be more than a few people who fail to remember they have to man the controls somewhere along their route.

The learning curve with humans is high & we don't always adjust to changing situations well. Just witness those that walk into you on the sidewalk while texting or those among us who forgot about the bikes on the roof rack.

[Louis]

what happens when the owner of a self-driving car has to take their regular vehicle out for a drive? I can imagine there will be more than a few people who fail to remember they have to man the controls somewhere along their route.

Nah, it's just like riding a bicycle - you never forget how to do it. :bike:

[lzuk]

I saw a self driving car yesterday-what a time saver, the wheel "sitter" was doing her makeup while on her phone. Good thing the car knew where it was going!

[victoryfactory]

I know what google is up to....
They really just want self driving cars to get approved so they can send
them out to take their street view photos without paying a driver.

They may not even care if the general public adopts it.

Anyway as a sexagenarian, (yep, that's right) you will have to pull the steering
wheel out of my cold, dead hands!

VF

[verticaldoug]

Google wants our attention focused on the little screen on the car formerly used as a navigation/entertainment system. We can sit passively in the car, watch the screen. As we get close to one of Google's corporate advertising clients location , say a McDonald's, the brain in the car will release the smell of fresh cooking in the car, flash subliminal messages on the screen making us think we are hungry and the next thing you know, we will be detouring to the local McD, Burger King or anywhere else that has purchased our attention from the google brain. And google will get a percentage for ferrying us in.... or herding the sheople.

[whforrest]

Will we be able to drink alcohol in the car? I'm asking the tough questions.

[67-59]

Do self-driving cars throw beer cans at cyclists?

No, but they free up the hands of the occupant (formerly driver), so it's easier for them to do so....:eek:

[steel515]

Some questions:

-What happens when it comes to a 4 way intersection with other cars?
-What if a squirrel runs across the road?
-Can old cars be converted to this?
-What if the computer crashes/shutdowns (no battery)?
-What if road is closed (due to road construction)
-Does it stay behind a slow bikerider forever if its a single lane road?

[Louis]

)-Does it stay behind a slow bikerider forever if its a single lane road?

I sure hope not. That can be more annoying than a close pass.