Serotta 40th Limited Edition

[jpw]

http://serotta.com/inspired-by-the-past-racing-toward-tomorrow/

http://serotta.com/40th-anniversary-frame/

[christian]

Damn. Colorado SE, horizontal top tube in that scheme would look amazing.

I'll say it - they've found their bearings up there in Saratoga. That is beautiful!

[Germany_chris]

I didn't want to look at the price but I did, I wish I hadn't though.

[FlashUNC]

So its a new paint scheme over the existing models?

Looks nice, but a little unsure of what makes it a limited edition, other than they're only spraying 40 bikes this way.

[54ny77]

from ben's text i thought they were going to announce a new run of steel frames in huffy/7-eleven or other vintage livery, perhaps at a decent price. that got me excited.

instead it's just a unique paint job on the following:
MeiVici SE frame + fork: $8,495
Ottrott SE frame + fork: $7,495
Legend SE frame + fork: $5,995
Colorado SE frame + fork: $3,795

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRq6kt1ryn8FlTdY3wsd7px-PIXlRZx9dDtDeppgvgcBerhRt-GPQ

[Abaddon]

For my taste the paint/graphics should've been a a bit more retro.

[SPOKE]

I like the paint scheme....just wish it was lugged steel with uniquely carved lugs and Columbus or US made KVA stainless tubes.

[clweed]

Damn. Colorado SE, horizontal top tube in that scheme would look amazing.
!

+1000

I sure do miss my Coeur d’Acier that I sold....Hmmmm

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . work on pricing. Even in the luxury demographic there's lots of competition now and their prices are uncomfortably higher than many. I've known Ben for some years and admire him greatly, but I have to be realistic here. If the yare going to keep these prices, then they need to really drive home exactly what extra a buyer gets for that price that other luxury level makers do not provide. They need to further define the value to the customer for that price.

On this paint scheme, yes, it's beautiful. And I know that's probably supposed to be Ben's handwriting. but the downtube brand name is unreadable with that "S" trailing off the top and bottom of the legible area on the tube. They should stick with the usual Serotta font in that particular frame spot only. It doesn't do them any good for people to see the bike and go "Whoa!" if they then can't easily tell what brand it is. As a rider, if i see a really kickass bike, that's where my eye goes first to see what brand it is. If that downtube decal is unreadable, the publicity value is lost.

BBD

[oldguy00]

Ridiculous pricing.

[svelocity]

Ridiculous pricing.

I'm afraid I have to agree. It's a lot of dough.

[biker72]

Ridiculous pricing.
+1
A little out of my price range..

[Smiley]

. . . work on pricing. Even in the luxury demographic there's lots of competition now and their prices are uncomfortably higher than many. I've known Ben for some years and admire him greatly, but I have to be realistic here. If the yare going to keep these prices, then they need to really drive home exactly what extra a buyer gets for that price that other luxury level makers do not provide. They need to further define the value to the customer for that price.

On this paint scheme, yes, it's beautiful. And I know that's probably supposed to be Ben's handwriting. but the downtube brand name is unreadable with that "S" trailing off the top and bottom of the legible area on the tube. They should stick with the usual Serotta font in that particular frame spot only. It doesn't do them any good for people to see the bike and go "Whoa!" if they then can't easily tell what brand it is. As a rider, if i see a really kickass bike, that's where my eye goes first to see what brand it is. If that downtube decal is unreadable, the publicity value is lost.

BBD

+100000000000000000000000 BBDave gets it :)

[rphetteplace]

Compared to an IF ti F&F for about $3,400 it's no wonder Serotta is having problems.

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

[JeffS]

I didn't want to look at the price but I did, I wish I hadn't though.

Oh, I'm glad I did. I now have a reason other than the horrible font to ignore them. And yes, I do give them credit for removing almost all of it, if only for 40 bikes.

[Joachim]

I look at Serotta and then I go back to Baum.... whatever that may mean.

[Vientomas]

They look like nice frames but I can't justify the price.

[soulspinner]

Compared to an IF ti F&F for about $3,400 it's no wonder Serotta is having problems.

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

I think IF is up to 4000 for F&F..........around where it gets fun with Firefly, Spectrum .........

[whforrest]

no disrespect to serotta, but i'm not feeling the passion here. nothing inspires me about that paint job. go to Baum's website and you can get passionate about paint jobs.

[jpw]

Does the pricing of new Serotta frames help to keep used prices up?

[Germany_chris]

I'm not seeing much resale value either though I'm not looking real hard.

[Dromen]

I thought Serotta was discontinuing standard geo/short lead time segment of biz?

[malcolm]

. . . work on pricing. Even in the luxury demographic there's lots of competition now and their prices are uncomfortably higher than many. I've known Ben for some years and admire him greatly, but I have to be realistic here. If the yare going to keep these prices, then they need to really drive home exactly what extra a buyer gets for that price that other luxury level makers do not provide. They need to further define the value to the customer for that price.

On this paint scheme, yes, it's beautiful. And I know that's probably supposed to be Ben's handwriting. but the downtube brand name is unreadable with that "S" trailing off the top and bottom of the legible area on the tube. They should stick with the usual Serotta font in that particular frame spot only. It doesn't do them any good for people to see the bike and go "Whoa!" if they then can't easily tell what brand it is. As a rider, if i see a really kickass bike, that's where my eye goes first to see what brand it is. If that downtube decal is unreadable, the publicity value is lost.

BBD

I completely agree Dave. I feel an affinity for serotta, because I still remember the first one I ever saw. I was in New Orleans in the late '70 or early '80s and saw a red/yellow fade. Prior to that I lusted for Italian bikes, but that one bike put serotta on my radar. Years latter when I could afford a new high end bike, I looked them up, found this forum and enjoyed many serottas both new and used. My wife still has a LaCorsa bought on close out. I'm not a carbon guy but I do like Ti and honestly I wouldn't even consider a serotta at the current prices. What do they offer over many of the smaller shops other than shaped tubes, paint is no better, welds from strictly visual appearance honestly are not as nice as some others. I'm a fan but I no longer get it and I really want to.
I'm about to pull the trigger on a firefly mtn bike and it certainly isn't cheap, but it's a bargain compared to the legend.

[oldguy00]

Does the pricing of new Serotta frames help to keep used prices up?

From what I've seen over the past several years, Serotta's do not hold their value well. Kind of like new Pina's and Colnagos.
Some folks may pay 5k retail for a frameset, but it won't sell used for more than 2k. Same idea with Serotta's frames. Also keep in mind, a lot of Serotta's have custom geo, and thus don't work well for second hand buyers.

[Fixed]

from ben's text i thought they were going to announce a new run of steel frames in huffy/7-eleven or other vintage livery, perhaps at a decent price. that got me excited.

instead it's just a unique paint job on the following:
MeiVici SE frame + fork: $8,495
Ottrott SE frame + fork: $7,495
Legend SE frame + fork: $5,995
Colorado SE frame + fork: $3,795

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRq6kt1ryn8FlTdY3wsd7px-PIXlRZx9dDtDeppgvgcBerhRt-GPQ

I thought the same like the csi ,you have get a Bedford or Kirk if you want that ,
IMHO
Cheers. Or a couple of other ex serotta builders that are around

[djg]

Compared to an IF ti F&F for about $3,400 it's no wonder Serotta is having problems.

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

IF's web site says that a CJ Ti frame and fork are about 4095 (I gather that's a baseline, depending on paint and other options).

Still, there's a notable gap between 4100 and 6k, and between 6 and other highly desireable Ti options -- a big enough gap that it might really matter to lots of folks. I wouldn't pretend to know who is having how much trouble or why; and I think that Serotta is a great firm that still builds great bikes, and wouldn't pretend to say what they should be worth to anybody else. Personally, I think the bikes look cool, and I bet they're great, but yeah, 6 is more than 4, and I cannot think of a single thing I'd change about my most recent Ti frame, which was priced more like 4 (f, f, and hs).

[djg]

From what I've seen over the past several years, Serotta's do not hold their value well. Kind of like new Pina's and Colnagos.
Some folks may pay 5k retail for a frameset, but it won't sell used for more than 2k. Same idea with Serotta's frames. Also keep in mind, a lot of Serotta's have custom geo, and thus don't work well for second hand buyers.

I don't think this is a particular defect of Serottas, just a general fact about the used bike market. Bikes from a few -- maybe 2 or 3 -- builders who have very long wait lists seem to fare better these days, but that's a pretty recent thing and it seems confined to a very short list of bikes. A Serotta or an IF or a Moots might be a great "investment" insofar as it's viewed as money well spent -- something you can get a lot of great use out of -- but none of these things is likely to hold its value very well on the resale market. At the end of the day, this is consumption.

As for custom -- most of the goes don't look that odd to me (lots more variation in the builds), but yeah, there's that -- buying used I might well find something that seems like a slightly better fit in a stock model than I would in somebody else's made-to-measure bike; at the very least, whatever extra they got out of having a bike built custom, or made-to-measure for them, would not be a plus for me.

But really, having bought a couple of stock Serottas new, and one custom Spectrum, I have to say that the relative resale potential of one or the other just wasn't a factor for me. I bought them to ride them.

[jpw]

I don't think this is a particular defect of Serottas, just a general fact about the used bike market. Bikes from a few -- maybe 2 or 3 -- builders who have very long wait lists seem to fare better these days, but that's a pretty recent thing and it seems confined to a very short list of bikes. A Serotta or an IF or a Moots might be a great "investment" insofar as it's viewed as money well spent -- something you can get a lot of great use out of -- but none of these things is likely to hold its value very well on the resale market. At the end of the day, this is consumption.

As for custom -- most of the goes don't look that odd to me (lots more variation in the builds), but yeah, there's that -- buying used I might well find something that seems like a slightly better fit in a stock model than I would in somebody else's made-to-measure bike; at the very least, whatever extra they got out of having a bike built custom, or made-to-measure for them, would not be a plus for me.

But really, having bought a couple of stock Serottas new, and one custom Spectrum, I have to say that the relative resale potential of one or the other just wasn't a factor for me. I bought them to ride them.

Sachs?
Vanilla?

[charliedid]

Serotta does not care that you cannot afford it...

Veblen Goods - Wikipedia

Some types of luxury goods, such as high-end wines, designer handbags, and luxury cars are Veblen goods, in that decreasing their prices decreases people's preference for buying them because they are no longer perceived as exclusive or high status products.[2] Similarly, a price increase may increase that high status and perception of exclusivity, thereby making the good even more preferable. Often such goods are no better or are even worse than their lower priced counterparts. However, this 'anomaly' is mitigated when one understands that the demand curve does not necessarily have only one peak. The goods generally thought to be Veblen goods are still subject to the curve since demand does not increase with price infinitely. Demand may go up with price within a certain price range, but at the top of that range the demand will cease to increase before it begins to fall again with further price increases.
At the other end of the spectrum, where luxury items priced equal to non-luxury items of lower quality, all else being equal more people would buy the luxury items, even though a few Veblen-seekers would not. Thus, even a Veblen good is subject to the dictum that demand moves conversely to price, although the response of demand to price is not consistent at all points on the demand curve.

[malcolm]

I think at some point you price yourself out of the market. Especially repeat buyers. Serotta may get that first custom purchase but as you research other options and see the comparable products at a lesser price it makes it harder to justify the added expense especially when a cheaper product may seem even more exotic.

On the other hand, they are worth what they can get for them and if they ring your bell I say go for it. None of this crap is worth what we pay for it.

[jpw]

Only 35 left. Hurry.