View Full Version : O.T. Green Bay got robbed
G-Reg
09-24-2012, 11:22 PM
The replacements refs make cycling looked organized.
Louis
09-24-2012, 11:36 PM
The owners are in no position to complain - they're doing this to themselves and their product. Over a teeny amount of money.
CaptStash
09-24-2012, 11:38 PM
Go 'Hawks. Our cal alum. beat the Packers' Cal alum. So there!
CaptStash...
duh - Cal alum!
schneiderrd
09-24-2012, 11:49 PM
That was total crap tonight. I can't believe how bad that was.
It just keeps getting worse. The NFL is a complete joke. I'm done with it for the season.
Marcusaurelius
09-25-2012, 12:41 AM
I don't think Division 2 referees are up to working in the NFL. I think the games shouldn't count until they have some competent people (real NFL refs) for the games.
Louis
09-25-2012, 12:45 AM
I think the games shouldn't count until they have some competent people (real NFL refs) for the games.
I wouldn't want to tell that to the guys who've already had season-ending injuries.
KF9YR
09-25-2012, 01:07 AM
ESPN, Fox, and NBC should ask for a partial refund of their broadcast right money.
I think meeting the referee's demands would be a lot less expensive for the league.
Just think how angry some of the bettors/sportsbooks are in Las Vegas tonight. Mentioning Vegas made me think of the ref in the movie Rat Race, wonder where the refs from tonights game will go and hide.
Louis
09-25-2012, 01:10 AM
I don't think you can blame the refs.
We all know they're out of their depth. I blame the folks who put them in that position knowing that they really weren't qualified to do the job.
Edit: Another thought - I wonder what the Green Bay fan forums were like tonight? Must make for some interesting reading....
One of the things I have concluded about the situation is how incredibly overly complicated and subjective the rules of the NFL have become. The replacement refs have just highlighted that.
As for me, I was happy as they showed Liverpool v Manchester United Sunday afternoon. Far more entertaining and no commercials every 3 minutes.
Fixed
09-25-2012, 05:46 AM
It just keeps getting worse. The NFL is a complete joke. I'm done with it for the season.
I just started watching
Cheers :)
aznred
09-25-2012, 06:08 AM
Can't remember where I read this, but the cost for each team to end the lockout is about $100,000. It seems pretty absurd the league is allowing such a controversy that ties to the quality of the game to go on, but on the other hand what this is bringing in higher ratings I wonder.
67-59
09-25-2012, 07:39 AM
It's gotta be Lance's fault. 'Cause listening to some folks here, he controls what everybody else does, right? We've read here that he controls what other riders do/take, he controls UCI, he controls Congressmen. From that kind of paranoia, it isn't much of a stretch to think he controls the NFL owners...you know, to create a controversy that overshadows him?:rolleyes:
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 08:05 AM
Blah Blah Blah.
The Packers gave up way too many sacks, scored only 12 points...they deserved to lose that game.
I am tired of all the whining and second guessing going on. It was like this before the replacement refs, pissing and moaning about calls and monday/tuesday morning officiating.
FlashUNC
09-25-2012, 08:12 AM
Blah Blah Blah.
The Packers gave up way too many sacks, scored only 12 points...they deserved to lose that game.
I am tired of all the whining and second guessing going on. It was like this before the replacement refs, pissing and moaning about calls and monday/tuesday morning officiating.
The prior officials could at least:
1) Know how to mark off yardage and the basic rules.
2) Not give teams extra timeouts and challenges they didn't have.
3) Keep every play from turning into a giant shoving match.
The regular refs made mistakes certainly, but both the quantity and quality of errors these guys are making is unreal. The Lions had a 27 yard penalty in their game against the Titans, for what's supposed to be a 15-yard foul. In the Browns/Bengals game last week, they kept the clock running even after guys ran out of bounds. A couple of the replacement refs used to be refs for the Lingerie Football League, but were let go because they weren't good enough. For Lingerie Football.
Blah Blah Blah.
The Packers gave up way too many sacks, scored only 12 points...they deserved to lose that game.
I am tired of all the whining and second guessing going on. It was like this before the replacement refs, pissing and moaning about calls and monday/tuesday morning officiating.
^^This^^
It give the talking heads that cover sports something to talk about!
MattTuck
09-25-2012, 08:18 AM
In terms of preserving the integrity of the sport and safety of the athletes, I'd have to rank the UCI above the NFL. :eek:
It will be interesting to see how the strategies of the owners and the officials end up working. Right now, I think public opinion is aligned widely against owners... but I can understand that they don't want to set a precedent of caving to union demands.
Still, the NFL doesn't want to be THE story, they'd rather the games and players were THE story -- and the league and officials were invisible.
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 08:19 AM
The prior officials could at least:
1) Know how to mark off yardage and the basic rules.
2) Not give teams extra timeouts and challenges they didn't have.
3) Keep every play from turning into a giant shoving match.
The regular refs made mistakes certainly, but both the quantity and quality of errors these guys are making is unreal. The Lions had a 27 yard penalty in their game against the Titans, for what's supposed to be a 15-yard foul. In the Browns/Bengals game last week, they kept the clock running even after guys ran out of bounds. A couple of the replacement refs used to be refs for the Lingerie Football League, but were let go because they weren't good enough. For Lingerie Football.
Understood and I am not saying they are good, what I am saying is that people like to bitch and complain about football. Mike Greenberg on Mike and Mike is complaining as much today as he ever did last year. Ranting = ratings.
As an aside, it was not a bad call. Two players catch the ball, both players tie the ball up and come down with it, both retain possession on the ground...ball goes to offense.
Right call, GB loses. GB 1-2, Bears 2-1. Dig it.
FlashUNC
09-25-2012, 08:24 AM
Understood and I am not saying they are good, what I am saying is that people like to bitch and complain about football. Mike Greenberg on Mike and Mike is complaining as much today as he ever did last year. Ranting = ratings.
As an aside, it was not a bad call. Two players catch the ball, both players tie the ball up and come down with it, both retain possession on the ground...ball goes to offense.
Right call, GB loses. GB 1-2, Bears 2-1. Dig it.
Tate doesn't catch it till he's wrestling on the ground. After he shoves a guy out of the way for a ridiculous offensive pass interference.
Go back to rugby, you have no idea what you are talking about.
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 08:30 AM
Tate doesn't catch it till he's wrestling on the ground. After he shoves a guy out of the way for a ridiculous offensive pass interference.
A) Do they even call pass interference on a hail mary, jump ball? I don't think I have ever seen that called on a play like that.
B) Tate had is arm around the ball in the air coming down...they both had it.
C) Green Bay played like ****. Sure, we are talking about the last play of the game, lets talk about all the others which ACTUALLY cost the game. This is the problem with the NFL, folks focus on the wrong thing. People will say GB was robbed, which is incorrect. Maybe it was a bad call, maybe with a different set of officials it is called differently. What is not the officials fault is the porous offensive line. The dropped passes, Rodgers being inaccurate, the bad play calling which didn't get a run game started until the second half. That is why they lost the game.
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 08:32 AM
Go back to rugby, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Who won the game?
All reffs are BAD! They only get 50% of the calls correct.
That means one team gets 25% and the other gets 25%!
It's not like these reffs are trying to get one team to win over another!
Ed Hochuli missed more than a few calls! One very public one!
Blah Blah Blah.
The Packers gave up way too many sacks, scored only 12 points...they deserved to lose that game.
I am tired of all the whining and second guessing going on. It was like this before the replacement refs, pissing and moaning about calls and monday/tuesday morning officiating.
Yeah, and Seattle scored only 7. Last time I checked, 12 was higher than 7.
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 08:45 AM
Yeah, and Seattle scored only 7. Last time I checked, 12 was higher than 7.
14 is higher that 12.
This can go on all day.
:banana:
Climb01742
09-25-2012, 08:58 AM
some mistakes are worth complaining about. last night's botched call cost a team a game. it was clearly a blown call and because it was the last play of the game, it clearly and directly led to the 'wrong' team winning the game. that is worth making a fuss over.
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 09:06 AM
some mistakes are worth complaining about. last night's botched call cost a team a game. it was clearly a blown call and because it was the last play of the game, it clearly and directly led to the 'wrong' team winning the game. that is worth making a fuss over.
Blown call....game. **** happens sometimes.
First game of the year two years ago, the Bears beat the Lions on a "catch" ruled incomplete by Calvin Johnson. It is a game, lots of moving parts, officiated by real people, in real time and mistakes/interpretations occur.
I just watched the play in real time and it looks like a simultaneous catch. It is understandable how the call was made.
I am a Chicago Bears fan, so I am biased, but I will say this happens every year.
rwsaunders
09-25-2012, 09:09 AM
In terms of preserving the integrity of the sport and safety of the athletes, I'd have to rank the UCI above the NFL. :eek:
It will be interesting to see how the strategies of the owners and the officials end up working. Right now, I think public opinion is aligned widely against owners... but I can understand that they don't want to set a precedent of caving to union demands.
Still, the NFL doesn't want to be THE story, they'd rather the games and players were THE story -- and the league and officials were invisible.
I think it's more than a union issue. The NFL is asking the refs to trade in their careers for a full time ref position. Right now they're paid about $8K/game...not sure how many games they work. The NFL wants to pay them $250K/year, which for sure means that there is a cost savings theme in place. Somewhere therein lies the issue.
mas0328
09-25-2012, 09:16 AM
For you gamblers out there, that last call shifted $150MM-$250MM in bets.
Since the 'public' was overwhelmingly on the Packers, Vegas and offshore books made a killing.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8422934/seattle-seahawks-vs-green-bay-packers-disputed-mnf-call-shifted-150-250m-bets
Dave B
09-25-2012, 09:18 AM
Blown call....game. **** happens sometimes.
First game of the year two years ago, the Bears beat the Lions on a "catch" ruled incomplete by Calvin Johnson. It is a game, lots of moving parts, officiated by real people, in real time and mistakes/interpretations occur.
I just watched the play in real time and it looks like a simultaneous catch. It is understandable how the call was made.I am a Chicago Bears fan, so I am biased, but I will say this happens every year.
Right, but they had slow motion review available and got it wrong.
Yes the packers gave up 8 sacs early, but secondhalf they made adjustments and that wasn't the case.
There were a million chances both teams had, but the last call...the refs got it wrong. Jennings brought the ball to his chest (this in the NFL signals catch) then Tate stuck his hand in. On slow-mo that is very clear. Game speed you are right it looks like they both have it.
But, like you said right now it is no big deal...unless GB needs one more game to make the play offs.
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 09:20 AM
Right, but they had slow motion review available and got it wrong.
Yes the packers gave up 8 sacs early, but secondhalf they made adjustments and that wasn't the case.
There were a million chances both teams had, but the last call...the refs got it wrong. Jennings brought the ball to his chest (this in the NFL signals catch) then Tate stuck his hand in. On slow-mo that is very clear. Game speed you are right it looks like they both have it.
But, like you said right now it is no big deal...unless GB needs one more game to make the play offs.
They can't review possession via replay. They can't use slow motion...decisions made in real time. We have replay, slow motion to arm chair ref, but in real time the decision is not so clear.
Anyway, none of this matters if Jennings or any of the Packers do what they should do...knock the ball down to the ground.
tiretrax
09-25-2012, 09:33 AM
Anyway, none of this matters if Jennings or any of the Packers do what they should do...knock the ball down to the ground.
TRUTH!
The first thing I thought was why didn't he knock it out of the end zone. There would have been no question about that play. There was no need to get a possession.
Call sucked - I watched parts of four games this weekend. All had far too many blown calls and needless delays. I feel badly for the replacement refs because they are being asked to do a job in which no one wants them to succeed. The coaches are bullying them; taking advantage of the situation to change the outcome of the game to make up for poor performance of their players.
As far as the simultaneous catch - it looked like Jennings had it on his chest as he came down but lost complete control on the ground, after he was down. Was the whistle too late to make that decisive?
Regarding pass interference - just because it's never called doesn't mean that there was no foul. That was one of the most flagrant penalties I have ever seen. I don't think there's an exception for Hail Mary passes being caught in the end zone.
The owners and the refs need to come to their senses.
Aaron O
09-25-2012, 09:54 AM
Blah Blah Blah.
The Packers gave up way too many sacks, scored only 12 points...they deserved to lose that game.
I am tired of all the whining and second guessing going on. It was like this before the replacement refs, pissing and moaning about calls and monday/tuesday morning officiating.
I agree with Rugby...people always complain about refs, there are always blown calls and these are new folks that haven't worked together as a team before. There does seem to be an uptick in blown calls, but I don't think it's as dramatic as some think.
I am a Chicago Bears fan.
Ahhh, still bitter about last weeks game, huh?;);)
FlashUNC
09-25-2012, 10:04 AM
I agree with Rugby...people always complain about refs, there are always blown calls and these are new folks that haven't worked together as a team before. There does seem to be an uptick in blown calls, but I don't think it's as dramatic as some think.
I watched part of the Eagles/Cardinals game. Vick had an intentional grounding penalty called against him (it was intentional grounding), but the ref said the infraction was 10 yards and replay the down. Umm....that's not intentional grounding.
Spot foul and loss of down. Any fan knows that.
They're screwing up basic, basic rules of the game.
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 10:06 AM
Ahhh, still bitter about last weeks game, huh?;);)
2-1 Bears
1-2 Packers
:)
christian
09-25-2012, 10:07 AM
Lance was tested 500 times.
Dave B
09-25-2012, 10:09 AM
Lance was tested 500 times.
I hear it was also replacement testers and administration who did his tests.
bambam
09-25-2012, 10:09 AM
I saw 3 or 4 bad calls on that last drive (2 on the last play) that I feel went against the Packers and the Packers got robbed.
But,This all could have been avioded if DD and AR conected in the back of the endzone on the first drive of the second half or Jennings knocks it away at the end of the game. The Packers let the game stay to close.
Hopefully they will learn as well as the rest of the league run up the score so that last drive can't make a difference no matter how the refs call it.
If this happens and when fights occur from running up the score detract from the game itself maybe something will be done.
Right now I'm not adjusting my schedule to see a game where the refs are the focus over the game itself.
nahtnoj
09-25-2012, 10:17 AM
Its really hard to watch, mostly because of how halting the flow of play is. It seems very routine things get reviewed on instant replay that didn't last year?
dekindy
09-25-2012, 10:19 AM
In all the football that I have watched I have never seen a DB try to catch a Hail Mary pass.
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 10:21 AM
Its really hard to watch, mostly because of how halting the flow of play is. It seems very routine things get reviewed on instant replay that didn't last year?
I agree, the games have gotten longer but there hasn't been flow to games for a while. 60 min of play is turned into 3+ hours of TV time...flow to the game was ruined years ago.
Aaron O
09-25-2012, 10:27 AM
I watched part of the Eagles/Cardinals game. Vick had an intentional grounding penalty called against him (it was intentional grounding), but the ref said the infraction was 10 yards and replay the down. Umm....that's not intentional grounding.
Spot foul and loss of down. Any fan knows that.
They're screwing up basic, basic rules of the game.
It's a new team...I honestly don't think it's the end of the world. I have to say that is pretty ridiculous.
bikerboy337
09-25-2012, 10:31 AM
I love how every thread morphs into a Lance thread lately! :banana:
I'd be interested to see what Tony T thinks about his ;)
I hear it was also replacement testers and administration who did his tests.
Dave B
09-25-2012, 10:46 AM
I love how every thread morphs into a Lance thread lately! :banana:
I'd be interested to see what Tony T thinks about his ;)
Jokes man Jokes! :banana::banana:
tuxbailey
09-25-2012, 10:55 AM
yeah, teams gotta take care the business themselves but the game has slowed down significantly due to delays in making calls, players' arguments, lack of control, etc.
I usually DVR the game for the schedule time plus 30 minutes to catch any overtime. Last week's Redskins-Rams game I had just enough time to record the regulation game. So it is time + 60 minutes now.
What I found interesting and probably should have picked up on long ago was that the refs and the broadcast team get together to go over how the game will be stopped and started to accommodate the advertising and ten-second 'bumps' when something unusual happens and the broadcasters want extra time for the replay. The refs are not just game officials, they are on-field TV directors. I guess I can see how they would have a vapor lock on some football related thing when they are trying to run a national TV show at the same time, never having done anything like that before.
Cinci Jim
09-25-2012, 11:11 AM
Until ticket sales are impacted or TV viewership goes down in a documented way, they have not lost anything, so why give anything away? For the NHL lock outs, there were no games, so no money. This time there are games and still lots of ticket sales.
The fans really are sheep in this - if the games are that bad, stop going & watching - that is the only way to send a messege if that is even possible.
The replacement refs and their bad calls are just one more reason I'd rather watch college football than pro these days.
GuyGadois
09-25-2012, 12:55 PM
Watching last nights game really makes me want them to end the lockout. The hockey lockout that is!
67-59
09-25-2012, 01:20 PM
Go back to rugby, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Yep.
rugbysecondrow
09-25-2012, 05:18 PM
Go back to rugby, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Yep.
:)
I am no football expert, an expert at no sport really as I have done none of them professionally, but you two must be pontiffs, living oracles on the subject. So much knowledge that the notion of even typing it out seems tedious. That must be the reason for the "yep" or even the wonderful zinger about my own cluelessness.
gaucho753
09-25-2012, 07:22 PM
I think it's really embarrassing for the NFL. There have widespread bad calls since game 1 of the season, but last night's game has to be a huge impetus to push along the negotiations. Not only last night's game, but also the Sunday night game when the entire stadium was filled with BS chants. There was also the Raider receiver Darius Heyward-Bey getting knocked out cold in the end-zone due to a blatant helmet-to-helmet hit, and no flag. The commissioner has championed safety as a major issue (changing rules, imposing heavy fines for late hits, etc.) and yet is risking player safety by not having qualified refs. With all the millions and millions (billions?) of dollars generated by the NFL, it's hard for me to understand how the extra money paid to "real" refs is worth risking the integrity of the season. If Green Bay misses out on the playoffs by one game, people will point to this game all season long. It's not a good look for the league.
67-59
09-25-2012, 08:12 PM
:)
I am no football expert, an expert at no sport really as I have done none of them professionally, but you two must be pontiffs, living oracles on the subject. So much knowledge that the notion of even typing it out seems tedious. That must be the reason for the "yep" or even the wonderful zinger about my own cluelessness.
Yep.
bironi
09-25-2012, 08:27 PM
I think it's really embarrassing for the NFL. There have widespread bad calls since game 1 of the season, but last night's game has to be a huge impetus to push along the negotiations. Not only last night's game, but also the Sunday night game when the entire stadium was filled with BS chants. There was also the Raider receiver Darius Heyward-Bey getting knocked out cold in the end-zone due to a blatant helmet-to-helmet hit, and no flag. The commissioner has championed safety as a major issue (changing rules, imposing heavy fines for late hits, etc.) and yet is risking player safety by not having qualified refs. With all the millions and millions (billions?) of dollars generated by the NFL, it's hard for me to understand how the extra money paid to "real" refs is worth risking the integrity of the season. If Green Bay misses out on the playoffs by one game, people will point to this game all season long. It's not a good look for the league.
Well said.:beer:
It would be interesting to track the large money betting on some of these games. I'm sure it is a whole lot easier to control them when the influence is a 'bad call' by an inexperienced official.
gaucho753
09-26-2012, 10:42 AM
And now there is this story from the LA Times, reporting that some of the refs hired by the NFL were fired from the Lingerie Football League for incompetence. :no:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-lingerie-football-league-20120926,0,4173638.story
tuxbailey
09-26-2012, 10:47 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8426996/owners-budge-latest-talks-fail-produce-deal-source-says
Hopefully there isn't another catastrophic game tomorrow ...
Dave B
09-26-2012, 11:27 AM
And now there is this story from the LA Times, reporting that some of the refs hired by the NFL were fired from the Lingerie Football League for incompetence. :no:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-lingerie-football-league-20120926,0,4173638.story
If I was a ref in that league I am sure I would miss a call or surely encourage more holding calls. he he.:p
William
09-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Replacement ref highlights:
Ref highlights 1 (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c4#/video/showbiz/2012/09/26/conan-nfl-ref-highlight-reel.teamcoco)
Ref highlights 2 (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c4#/video/showbiz/2012/09/20/conan-new-nfl-referees.teamcoco)
http://forums.cincybengals.com/images/smilies/519%5B1%5D.gif
:)
William
tuxbailey
09-26-2012, 11:12 PM
Well, the real refs will be back tonight.
I think Vegas does have a lot of persuasive power :)
67-59
09-27-2012, 07:52 AM
Well, the real refs will be back tonight.
I think Vegas does have a lot of persuasive power :)
So much for the theory that "it was like this before the replacement refs." The replacement refs took "bad," and then went above and beyond.
bobswire
09-27-2012, 08:07 AM
Well, the real refs will be back tonight.
I think Vegas does have a lot of persuasive power :)
Goodell stated," finding that horse head in his bed when he woke up yesterday had nothing to do with getting the Refs back to the game".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZtyvlzVm7Y
Climb01742
09-27-2012, 08:59 AM
you know, i also wonder what part vegas played in the NFL not reversing the outcome of the game. reports put the money that swung with the outcome between $150mil up to $1bil. that's a lot to undo. not saying vegas was a_big_reason, but a wonder if it was one reason.
Vientomas
09-27-2012, 10:03 AM
The "regular refs" should kick back some money to the replacements. That call in the Seattle/Green Bay game looks to have provided the push to settle the matter favorably for the "regular refs".
I saw 3 or 4 bad calls on that last Green Bay scoring drive that I feel went against the Seahawks and the Seahawks got robbed..
fixed it for you! ;)
Tough game to watch from officiating stand point...both teams had calls go for them and against them. One play does not make a whole game.
Smarter play by the DB (bat the ball away) and the whole discussion is moot.
At the end of the day, the refs are right...whether you agree or not. Bitching about it is just poor form....it's what I tell my U8 soccer team "play hard and after the game go thank the refs."
Go Seahawks!
BTW - Rugby is spot on....:banana:
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