CDA v. Councours CS

[Howard]

I'm trying to decide between a Concours CS and CDA--both have the CS seat stays. I have a steel Bianchi now, and have never ridden titanium. Other than the weight difference (and what is that here?), is there any advantage to ti over steel, esp. given the carbon stays? There is, of course, a difference of $1,000. Any thoughts?

[Ken Robb]

I own CSI and Legend and rode a CDA and C111 back-to-back. I am unconvinced that carbon stays offer any advantage over steel or ti.

[Blastinbob]

The amount of flex in a CS is very small. I had a cda for a few month and only notice the CS on very sharp bumbs, I think serotta can duplicate the same flex on either the C3 or concours without having to purchase carbon stays. My compact legend w/ti stays rides much better then my cda did. Have them build you a nice concours and you won't be sorry. My 2c.

[davids]

He's asking about the difference between a steel Serotta and a Ti Serotta.

Howard,

In my limited experience, Ti absorbs a little more vibration than steel. While I still get a lot of feedback/buzz from the road, I also get a very pleasing sensation of 'floating' over the road that I don't get from steel. Steel, on the other hand, has more 'spring' to it, which is also a very pleasant kind of feedback. Ti seems to have less of this springiness.

They're different - Both good, but each with its own character. Maybe folks with more experience on each can weigh in.

[Serotta PETE]

You really need to try a CDA and a Ti. One is not better than the other - just different.

Your weight, riding enivorment (hills, rough roads), riding style (spinner, masher, sprint, etc) all will have a bearing on the feel on the ride (even with all else being the same but frame material.

Additionally, Serotta thru selection of material in tubes and stays influences the ride.

I really love the Steel and the Ti frames and have ridden many over they years.

If I could only have one - it would be a Ti. I would ask Serotta to design it to give me the riding characteristics I want and then wait for the delivery.

[Rapid Tourist]

Pete, I thought you had only one bike? ;)

[Howard]

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'm surprised to hear that there is a consensus among this (admittedly-statistically-insignificant) group that the carbon stays don't provide much vibration-absorbing advantage/aren't worth it. It seems a little hard to swallow given the pivot concept behind the ST stays (i.e., that there's enough spring in the seat stays to warrant a pivot). I'll pursue that when I talk to the Serotta folks. No one has "weighed in" on the weight difference, which I'll assume is around 1 pound. (That means a build-up (given my anticipated parts pick) of either 16.5 or 17.5). Any insights?

[vaxn8r]

I think you are about a pound low respectively. If you aren't then why don't you put the extra money into a Legend.

I just got a Legend. No ST. Honestly, I understand it's supposed to keep the rear planted on fast curvey descents, but this bike is so well balanced you don't need it. Plus I think it weighs more, if you care about that. And you certainly don't need it for comfort. Maybe with a CDA that's a different story.

[jerk]

get one of each.

jerk

[Howard]

I'm basing the weights on Wrenchscience.com, so I think they're accurate (Dura Ace except for FSA compact carbon cranks and Ultegra BB and front der; Easton Ascent II; SLR XP; Easton EC-90 bar; Speedplay Zero stainless). Not the most expensive parts pick, but strong and light. I'm not sure I see the advantage in going yet another $1K higher to get the Legend.

[jerk]

I'm basing the weights on Wrenchscience.com, so I think they're accurate (Dura Ace except for FSA compact carbon cranks and Ultegra BB and front der; Easton Ascent II; SLR XP; Easton EC-90 bar; Speedplay Zero stainless). Not the most expensive parts pick, but strong and light. I'm not sure I see the advantage in going yet another $1K higher to get the Legend.

you shouldn't have to. both bikes will be great. the jerk'd take the cda but the concours is probably the most underrated bike in serotta's line-up. it's 95% of a legend, and if it wasn't for the legend it'd be the best titanium bike in the world.

jerk

[BarryG]

No one has "weighed in" on the weight difference, which I'll assume is around 1 pound.
Not knowing any better, my estimate would be half that.

[Blastinbob]

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'm surprised to hear that there is a consensus among this (admittedly-statistically-insignificant) group that the carbon stays don't provide much vibration-absorbing advantage/aren't worth it. It seems a little hard to swallow given the pivot concept behind the ST stays (i.e., that there's enough spring in the seat stays to warrant a pivot). I'll pursue that when I talk to the Serotta folks. No one has "weighed in" on the weight difference, which I'll assume is around 1 pound. (That means a build-up (given my anticipated parts pick) of either 16.5 or 17.5). Any insights?
The ST does work better then the CS, i can tell the difference. I don't remember if it was this or the old forum, but i think it was Serotta Todd that gave all the numbers for flex between the CS, ST and the late DSK/rip.

[darylb]

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'm surprised to hear that there is a consensus among this (admittedly-statistically-insignificant) group that the carbon stays don't provide much vibration-absorbing advantage/aren't worth it. It seems a little hard to swallow given the pivot concept behind the ST stays (i.e., that there's enough spring in the seat stays to warrant a pivot). I'll pursue that when I talk to the Serotta folks. No one has "weighed in" on the weight difference, which I'll assume is around 1 pound. (That means a build-up (given my anticipated parts pick) of either 16.5 or 17.5). Any insights?


I own a Couer D'Acier (that's what it says on the top tube) and have not ridden a Ti bike so I can't offer a comparison but I can offer an opinion. My CDA, which is set up for racing (I bought it used), still gives that great, smooth, stable ride that I expected from steel but certainly has some spirit. As for the carbon stays, I'm not convinced they have a great deal to do with the ride but I think they look cool and that counts for a lot when you are spending hard earned money for a bike.

When buying a new Serotta, you can have it built to your liking so from that standpoint it doesnt matter which you buy. Simply get the one you want, built the way you want it.

When people ask this type of question, including myself, I imagine they are looking for some justification to spend extra or to talk themselves out of spending too much. Both will do exactly what you want so it is a matter of what blows your skirt up and how much money you want to pay. If I had that budget, I'd buy the CDA and another bike or frame with the spare grand.

[b3bicycles]

Having had the chance to ride all three of Serotta's rear ends in steel and Ti and if the choice is just between a standard rear and a CS rear I would choose the standard hands down. But, if you have the cash the ST rear is the ticket. It does just what they say it does and my legend ST is hands down the best overall bike I've ever riden!

[Howard]

Well, I am now thinking Concours, no CS.

[jpw]

Well, I am now thinking Concours, no CS.

This 'choosing' thing can be not enjoyable. "Will I regret.....?". Headache.

[mdeeds71]

Maybe the 06 linup like the thread that is on the forum...might have a second option that is the Le Corsa...I am interested in it myself.