Does anyone know anything about the Cyclocross Ottrot?

[Nick H.]

I've got this fantasy about sticking some fat tyres on one and using it as a fast tourer on unpaved roads in places like Algeria and Cambodia. I could dress it up with a Rohloff hub, a suspension seatpost, some bendy carbon tri bar extensions (for relaxing on). And maybe Serotta would build in some S&S couplings?

So is this a stupid idea? And can you get a Cyclocross Ottrot with an ST rear triangle?

[flydhest]

Strikes me as an odd idea in as much as the Ottrott is great because of its ride. Fully loaded touring (that is what you have in mind) usually involves lots of extra weight, wide and often nubbed tires, solid/overbuilt wheels, and such like. I suspect that these facets would take away enormously from the Ottrott's fabulous ride.

Re: the ST option, the rear is drilled for calipers, so I don't think you can get cantis . . . Also, I don't think they have alternate width rear ends, so tire clearance is an issue.

Again, with touring tires, possibly a suspended seat post, and fully loaded, I can't imagine what the ST rear would do for you.

Just my views, I could be wrong.

[Nick H.]

Fair enough. What bike would be a better choice? I have an instinctive suspicion of mountain bikes unless they're being used for really heavy duty stuff like racing on rough courses. I want something that will be almost as fast as my Ottrot when the road turns to asphalt. But I also want to be able to throw it in a 3rd world bus - hence the desire for S&S couplings. I suppose most UK riders would point me towards a Thorn. What do you have in the US? Are Surlys any good? Can you imagine one with tri bars on it?

[spiderman]

and asked my lbs owner his opinion.
he strongly advised against it...
...this is what the expert had to say:

I have to be straight with you and say that is not a good idea and not
feasible at all. I suggest leaving the Ottrot a road bike, since it was
only designed to be one. The changes you mentioned are not entirely
possible. The frame will not have adequate clearance for larger cross
tires and no canti brakes could be retrofitted on the ottrot without the
use of a torch and a big risk of damage to the stays.

[jdoiv]

the Ritchey Break Away Cross bike. www.ritcheylogic.com

Cross bike that folds down for traveling. Lots cheaper than an Ottrot and won't hurt as much when that 3rd world bus driver runs over it...

[Bradford]

When you say "fast tourer," do you mean that you will touring loaded or unloaded. If loaded, how much weight will you be putting on the bike, meaning just clothes or with camping and cooking gear as well. That makes the biggest difference on what kind of bike you would want.

[Nick H.]

I would do it with ultralight minimalist camping gear - let's say 20 lbs total baggage weight, excluding water. That's a very rough guess - I should have a better idea when I've weighed the gear I'm taking on my next trip.

[Nick H.]

The Break Away Cross looks very interesting - I like the eyelets for luggage racks. Has anybody got one?

[zank]

As to not cause confusion with the builder, I would refer to the bike as a fast touing bike rather than a cross bike. To me, a cross bike is a purpose-built racing bike. While they are good at other things, a true cross bike would not be idealy suited to your needs. I realize this is nit-picking, but you should stress your primary needs as a touring bike first and foremost.

[Idris Icabod]

Sounds to me like the "unit" you are Jonesing for is a Hampten SBTi. They can be set up with S and S couplers and are built by Moots. Those couplers just look a lot sturdier than those used on the Ritchey frames. The link is:

http://www.hampsten.com/Bikes/GravelRoad/sbti.html

Although, since this is the Serotta froum I am sure Serotta can build you an awesome bike. Is it possible to fit the S and S couplers onto the carbon tubes of the Ottrott?

[Bradford]

Here is my take on this. I'm as cranky about touring as Dr. Brooks is about bike design, so take my opinions with a grain (or handful) of salt. To sum up my position, I don't believe in light and touring being in the same sentence. I think that is at the very least foolish and could be downright dangerous. If you don't have to carry weight, then tour light all you want; but if you are putting panniers on a bike, use a bike that was designed to be ridden with weight. I have no knoweldge or opinions about trailers, I've always used panniers.

If you have toured and gone light, than you can disregard all of this. I’ve toured a lot, and I don’t think you can go light and be both safe and comfortable. You can get to about 45 pounds (not counting racks) and be safe, especially if you tour with someone else and can divide up the tent and cooking gear. The last time I toured alone I carried 65 pounds. If you replaced my camp gear with ultralight stuff, maybe you could get that down to 55 pounds, but I have nice stuff so I’d be surprised. You can probably get to the mid 20’s if you don’t camp, but I’ve never toured that way so I am really just guessing.

If you use Tubus front and rear racks (very light) and a Jandd front and rear panniers (good bags), that weighs about 9.3 pounds. If you use bigger bags, a little more weight. Another way to think of it is that when you consider racks and heavier wheels, a dependable touring bike will be 28 lbs or so.

How about clothes? I tour with three sets of cycling kit (socks, shorts, shirt), one to wear, one that you washed the night before that is drying on the back of the bike, and one emergency pair in case it rains one day and you can’t dry the set from the day before. Add on arm and leg warmers, a riding fleece, a rain jacket, and warm helmet liner. (Don’t need the warm stuff? Maybe not, but I was touring Canada last July and it snowed on us and I was glad I had it). As for off the bike, I tour with 2 pairs of boxers for off the bike, 2 pairs of socks, shoes for off the bike, one wicking T shirt, one wicking golf shirt, and one pair of zip off pants. The warm cycling clothes double as warm off the bike clothes. Add in things like a first aid kit and a flashlight as well. Then add in the spares (nuts, bolts, wires, tubes, fiber spokes, extra normal spokes, and a tire) and tools you should carry, things are getting heavy.

OK you are haven’t packed a bag, a tent, a stove, and cookware. You are right to count out the water, don’t worry about that; your three bottles will be on the bike (one under the down tube on a real touring bike), so they don’t play into the equation. But don’t forget about food, which is the heaviest part of your stuff. If you are touring in a populated area, you can get away with minimal food, say one emergency meal and then pick the rest up along the way (which means you will often have to pedal 5-10 miles from the last store to the campground, so you will have to carry dinner and breakfast at least that far). But if you are away from civilization, you need a couple of day’s worth of food. When I tour in the U.S., I need that much food, it can only be worse in developing countries. In reality, I find that I end up with stuff that last a few days or even a week, like jars of peanut butter and jelly or boxes of fig newtons, so the food does get heavy. When you lay it all out and pack it in your bags, you will be shocked how much it is, how much less room you have in your panniers, and how heavy it is.

A lot of people who come from road cycling to touring come at it from the wrong perspective. They think about what they like about road (fast, nimble, etc.) and think they want to replicate that in touring. I think this is a big mistake and one that you would regret.

Touring is touring, which is a different animal all together than riding your Ottrott. I love touring, I love riding road, but both are completely different.

When touring, especially when touring in far off places, the number 1, 2, and 3 concern is reliability, all else is way down on the list. You need things that are not going to break, and if they do, things you can fix on the road. You wheels have to be both strong and traditional design (so you can replace spokes, which you need to carry). You also need things like bar end shifters (easy to use and fix, can be turned to friction if you have to).

Most people who have done a lot of touring learn the hard way that something that sounds reasonable before a trip can be disastrous on the road. For me, it was wheels, a mistake that I made once. For others, it is skimping on things like a spare tire or crappy racks or panniers. I was on a tour 3 years ago with a guy who had an extra light backpacking tent that was washed away in a heavy downpour. It may have seemed like a good idea before he left, but it wasn’t when he had to sleep in a collapsed tent and a soaked sleeping bag all night.

Here is my advice: think of touring as touring and enjoy it as touring and you will be much better off. Don’t use aero bars to rest, get off the bike to rest. When you are touring, getting off the bike to see things is the point of the trip. I get off the bike a minimum of once an hour when I tour. If you are on the bike for 45 to 50 minutes an hour you are doing fine. Take a picture, meet a local, sit on a rock, eat some food, but get of the bike and enjoy yourself. Besides, you couldn’t pay me enough money to get down on aero bars on a loaded bike. If you do, you are very likely to experience the health care system of what ever country you are in.

As for bikes, there are plenty of good options and it is getting better each year. I love Independent Fabrication's Independence, which is what I have. I also like Co-Motion’s bikes and I think the Nor’Wester may fit what you are looking for. Their Americano is way over built, so it is what I would choose. And you can never go wrong with a Bruce Gordon, that dude knows how to make bikes. What something that is just out of this world? Try a Moots Mootour with an IF fork or a Councours or Legend in Rapid tour geometry and an IF fork. If I were going to Algeria and Cambodia, I’d buy the biggest, baddest, strongest touring bike I could find and put on some 700x37 Conti Top Tours wrapped around 36/40 double butted spokes connected to a Phil Hub.

Couplers are a good idea, and they will work very well for getting to and from a destination. If you are doing travel within a country, remember that it takes a while to decouple a bike and you would have to find some way to pad and wrap it up, like in cardboard or burlap. If you are taking a long bus ride, sure, but not for a short hop.

Touring is the best way to travel and you will love it, but you will love it for what it is, not for the same reasons that you love riding your fast bike with fancy wheels around your town. Keep the mileage down (50-65 miles a day is my sweet spot) and interact as much as you can with your surroundings. Boy, I need to get back on the road again.

[OldDog]

What Branford said.

If your going to Cambodia to "tour" get a real, proven, touring bike. One built like a brick poophouse with components you can replace in a rice patty. Touring is fun, but, pushing a loaded, broken bike through 6 - 10" of mud puts a damper on things.

[nick0137]

I spoke to Ben Serotta about something like this earlier in the year when he was in London at Cyclefit. After his talk to the troops, I cornered him and asked if it would be possible to do a Paris-Brest-Paris friendly Ottrot - wider clearances at the rear (maybe going with a ti rear if the carbon could not be made to work), more relaxed angles and a steel fork, maybe even 650B. He was interested but a little cautious. My conclusion? If you really wanted it and were really willing to pay for it, Serotta would make it work.

[Bruce K]

YES, there is a cyclocross Ottrott. No, it does not have the ST rear.

I have seen Ben Jaques-Maynes' Ottrott cross bike and it is gorgeous. It comes in about 17.5# race ready. (It was at Open House but it was too big for me :crap: )

I do not believe that Serotta is offering any ST cross rear ends, they are all Ti.

I think others have given good advice on options for your usage.

BK

[Nick H.]

Much food for thought!

I don’t think you can go light and be both safe and comfortable. You can get to about 45 pounds (not counting racks) and be safe, especially if you tour with someone else and can divide up the tent and cooking gear. The last time I toured alone I carried 65 pounds. If you replaced my camp gear with ultralight stuff, maybe you could get that down to 55 pounds, but I have nice stuff so I’d be surprised. You can probably get to the mid 20’s if you don’t camp, but I’ve never toured that way so I am really just guessing.

I think I disagree - but I'm not sure until I've weighed my baggage. We shall see! In the past I've always toured on a 753 road racer. My max load has been front panniers, barbag and tailpack. I've never wished I was on a touring bike. Obviously I'm not saying I would take my 753 (or its replacement, an Ottrot ST) to Algeria or Cambodia....that would require a whole new approach to touring for me...and I'm turning this into a schizoid thread...but I hope to God that I never end up hauling 65 pounds! My next adventure (which has nothing to do with the Algeria/Cambodia idea) is going to be an 18,000 mile round the world tour on paved roads, with camping gear - and I'm sure i'll be carrying well under half your load. But I prefer it that way - I find it very satisfying to be so minimalist. When I've got my gear together I'd be glad to get your opinion on it so you can point out what's missing. But it sounds like we have very different approaches to some things - for a start, I would never ever buy anything in a jar! Unless I emptied it right outside the shop!

Right now, my obsession is with high speeds and big daily mileages because I want to break the record for cycling round the world. But this has absolutely nothing to do with my ambition to discover places like Algeria and Cambodia, which would be at a far slower pace, adopting your kind of approach of stopping to talk to all the locals.

Follow the link in my sig below - you'll be horrified by what I'm planning to do with my Ottrot! But I admit that this particular notion has more to do with racing than touring. At the moment I'm one of those guys staring at the speedo, willing the average speed to go up by another tenth...maybe it's just a phase I'm going through!