In which I rage ineffectually about a classifieds purchase gone bad

[Marburg]

I recently sent in a "dibs" on a classified item at about, oh, 7:30 PM local time, which due to the vagaries of a round earth is somewhere between midnight-thirty and 2:30 AM in the CONUS.

I then proceeded to do that thing people do at night ... sleep. Or in my case put kids to bed, eat ice cream, sleep fitfully, stumbling zombie-like around the living room with a cranky infant, sleep fitfully, repeat.

I next checked my email at about 6:30 the next morning to find an affirmative PM from the seller, to which I replied (and sent payment) before discovering the item had in fact been sold to someone else in the interim. The seller later related that, in essence, I hadn't gotten back to him fast enough after his PM from "the AM" and that he'd moved on. (which I'll note is his prerogative, of course).

Of course, his AM was the middle of the night for me. In fact, only about 3 1/2 hours elapsed between the affirmative email to me and the bump which eventually brought in more inquiries and the eventual sale. Sigh...

To the seller's credit he was apologetic and refunded promptly, and there are no (very few) hard feelings.

Patience, people, patience.

OK. I feel better. Now let's get back to talking about bikes.

[mistermo]

Identical thing happened to me in a different forum. I PM'd that I'd take it, then went to dinner and a movie with MissesMo. Upon returning, I saw the email w/ payment info, then paid and went to bed. Next morning, he refunded my money saying that he'd moved to buyer #2. In the few hours I was at dinner/movie.

It seems we live in a world where you can't unhitch from your e-device for more than an hour or two, w/o people going wiggo.

[norcalbiker]

I recently sent in a "dibs" on a classified item at about, oh, 7:30 PM local time, which due to the vagaries of a round earth is somewhere between midnight-thirty and 2:30 AM in the CONUS.

I then proceeded to do that thing people do at night ... sleep. Or in my case put kids to bed, eat ice cream, sleep fitfully, stumbling zombie-like around the living room with a cranky infant, sleep fitfully, repeat.

I next checked my email at about 6:30 the next morning to find an affirmative PM from the seller, to which I replied (and sent payment) before discovering the item had in fact been sold to someone else in the interim. The seller later related that, in essence, I hadn't gotten back to him fast enough after his PM from "the AM" and that he'd moved on. (which I'll note is his prerogative, of course).

Of course, his AM was the middle of the night for me. In fact, only about 3 1/2 hours elapsed between the affirmative email to me and the bump which eventually brought in more inquiries and the eventual sale. Sigh...

To the seller's credit he was apologetic and refunded promptly, and there are no (very few) hard feelings.

Patience, people, patience.

OK. I feel better.

I know exactly how you feel. But hey, this is internet.

[zennmotion]

I recently sent in a "dibs" on a classified item at about, oh, 7:30 PM local time, which due to the vagaries of a round earth is somewhere between midnight-thirty and 2:30 AM in the CONUS.

I then proceeded to do that thing people do at night ... sleep. Or in my case put kids to bed, eat ice cream, sleep fitfully, stumbling zombie-like around the living room with a cranky infant, sleep fitfully, repeat.

I next checked my email at about 6:30 the next morning to find an affirmative PM from the seller, to which I replied (and sent payment) before discovering the item had in fact been sold to someone else in the interim. The seller later related that, in essence, I hadn't gotten back to him fast enough after his PM from "the AM" and that he'd moved on. (which I'll note is his prerogative, of course).

Of course, his AM was the middle of the night for me. In fact, only about 3 1/2 hours elapsed between the affirmative email to me and the bump which eventually brought in more inquiries and the eventual sale. Sigh...

To the seller's credit he was apologetic and refunded promptly, and there are no (very few) hard feelings.

Patience, people, patience.

OK. I feel better. Now let's get back to talking about bikes.

And yet, you get to live in Christchurch. Take a few pictures of where you ride and play and you'll feel much better soon. More riding, less stuff!

PS The seller shoulda waited if you already connected. Patience people, patience! It's not the trading floor of the NY Stock Exchange! (Does NZ have a stock exchange?)

[alessandro]

I think a dibs means you're first in line, and unless you go full walkabout, it's reasonable for the seller to give you a few hours to respond. Like 24 hours, or at least six to eight.

Call me old-fashioned, or just old, but that's one of the good aspects of email: the ability to respond in your own time, and the mutual expectation that you won't be glued to your screen at all times. I think that's something texting has eroded. My kids, both teenagers, don't email much.

Reading this thread, I was reminded of the first paragraph of this NY Times story last year about sweatshop conditions in Amazon.com's warehouses:

Amazon has '...has exceeded its customers’ expectations so often it must constantly struggle to top itself. “At first people were incredulous that the mouse on their computer was connected to their doorbell,” the Amazon executive Russell Grandinetti said recently. “Now they say: ‘It’s been 12 hours. Where’s my stuff?’ ” Full story here: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-very-hot-warehouse/

So I guess it's all Amazon's fault.:rolleyes:

[Chance]

I recently sent in a "dibs" on a classified item at about, oh, 7:30 PM local time, which due to the vagaries of a round earth is somewhere between midnight-thirty and 2:30 AM in the CONUS.

I then proceeded to do that thing people do at night ... sleep. Or in my case put kids to bed, eat ice cream, sleep fitfully, stumbling zombie-like around the living room with a cranky infant, sleep fitfully, repeat.

I next checked my email at about 6:30 the next morning to find an affirmative PM from the seller, to which I replied (and sent payment) before discovering the item had in fact been sold to someone else in the interim. The seller later related that, in essence, I hadn't gotten back to him fast enough after his PM from "the AM" and that he'd moved on. (which I'll note is his prerogative, of course).

Of course, his AM was the middle of the night for me. In fact, only about 3 1/2 hours elapsed between the affirmative email to me and the bump which eventually brought in more inquiries and the eventual sale. Sigh...

To the seller's credit he was apologetic and refunded promptly, and there are no (very few) hard feelings.

Patience, people, patience.

OK. I feel better. Now let's get back to talking about bikes.

Can't quite follow the complete timeline between 11 hours and 3-1/2 hours, but missing out on a good buy sucks nonetheless. Perhaps next time you can inform the seller if in a different time zone of that fact so he/she can take it into account.

[slidey]

Shape of earth = Oblated spheroid

Every problem corresponds to this oblated bit, I kid you not!

...round earth...

[pavel]

is this about that chicken i sold you?

[christian]

From a infrequent seller's perspective, I see it this way:

If you send me a PM that says, unequivocally, "I will take it. My shipping address is 'X.' How do I pay?" I'll give you 12-24 hours to actually come up with the money, or confirm that you're sending me a check.

But a message like, "I'm interested. How do you think it will fit." doesn't compel me to wait even 30 seconds before selling to someone else.

So, when you said "dibs," what, exactly, did you say?

[jimcav]

Rather than PM'er #2? This is one of the issues with the classifieds--you can post "PM sent" but who knows what that means--just say "I'll take it".
"I'll take it if_____" isn't really a comittment, it is more of a haggle.
And with some sellers you can skip PM and do email, which must be sad for the guy who thought he was first because he did the 1st "PM sent" thing.

To a great extent this forum is what it is because we trust the integrity of the others here.

If you PM and get a PM back agreeing, then (to me) that really is a deal. If I was the seller, I'd be explaining/refunding to the OTHER guy (but then I would not be doing that, because I would not have told you we have a deal and then change my mind because you hadn't paid in X hours)

Sucks you had to get jerked around. What on earth did we do before the instant-ness of cellphones and tablets and paypal. This is like when i sell something on ebay on a sunday night and Tuesday morning i get messages asking "shipping status". I am not a business, I'm just a guy with 730-430 job, trying to commute to work (which in my current state of conditioning it pretty close to 3 hrs of riding ) yet everyone expects me to act like Amazon.

Sorry if i just stole your rant, but my opinion is you should have been top of the podium on this one.

[Marburg]

Thanks to all for the support. I knew that oblated spheroid would get me some day....

@christian ... I sent "I'd be interested in the [item], if it's still available." which seemed pretty straightforward to me. It is passive tense, though, isn't it? Darn you, high school english, for not beating that out of me.

[norcalbiker]

If you really want the item, then this is what you must do when you pm the seller.



"Hello I'll take the such and such for sale item and here is my PAYPAL Account. Please send an invoice or request money.
Or you can give me your Paypal Account and I'll send money.

Thank you"

[Frankwurst]

Sometimes you eat the bear. Sometimes the bear eats you. It's the internet. I always give buyers the benefit of the doubt simply because 99.5% of the time I really don't care or need to sell whatever it is I'm selling. I know from experience some folks don't approach it that way and I've missed more than a few parts and items I wanted. Not worth losing any sleep over IMO. :beer:

[rustychisel]

It's the oblate spheroid and people with a less than world-view. Same thing happened to me on this forum: "I'll take it, please send payment details" and the next morning get a message "I didn't hear back from you so I sold to someone else".
Move on.

[vav]

my approach. Thanks for writing it for me :)


Sometimes you eat the bear. Sometimes the bear eats you. It's the internet. I always give buyers the benefit of the doubt simply because 99.5% of the time I really don't care or need to sell whatever it is I'm selling. I know from experience some folks don't approach it that way and I've missed more than a few parts and items I wanted. Not worth losing any sleep over IMO. :beer:

[sc53]

Just to play devil's advocate--since it's happened to me many many times, not here but selling elsewhere--not infrequently someone will say "I'll take it, how do I pay?" and then you never hear from them again. I've turned down later offers only to have to try to reconnect later when the first tire-kicker flaked out. Whatever, you win some, you lose some. I hope you find a better deal down the road!

[Marburg]

Can't quite follow the complete timeline between 11 hours and 3-1/2 hours,

Luckily the screenplay is already on Oliver Stone's desk. I'm sure it will make much more sense in the movie (*cough* JFK *cough*)

Thanks to all again. I feel better for having ranted and worse for having ranted publicly. Yes, indeed, it's the internet and things like this happen. As a proud (founding) member of the Matt Chester waiting list club I should have a more sanguine worldview about the whole thing.

Indeed, you could claim that my timezone was an advantage as the ad was placed late in the evening in the CONUS and I probably saw it while the rest of you were sleeping.

Probably enough said.

[kvnmuadib]

I have found most sellers do have a little patience as to pymnt particularly if a deal has been struck.as a buyer it doesn't pay to wait for any length of time w/o some notice or agreement.I have only had a change of heart once and immediately informed seller w/apologies so he could move on.It wqouls suck for most of us to pay for something agreed upon and then be informed its a wash

[bikinchris]

I think a dibs means you're first in line, and unless you go full walkabout, it's reasonable for the seller to give you a few hours to respond. Like 24 hours, or at least six to eight.

Call me old-fashioned, or just old, but that's one of the good aspects of email: the ability to respond in your own time, and the mutual expectation that you won't be glued to your screen at all times. I think that's something texting has eroded. My kids, both teenagers, don't email much.

Reading this thread, I was reminded of the first paragraph of this NY Times story last year about sweatshop conditions in Amazon.com's warehouses:


So I guess it's all Amazon's fault.:rolleyes:

This. People have become more impatient by the minute. If you are first in line, you are FIRST in line. The imte is your AFAIAK until you say otherwise.
Come on people!!!

[mister]

a few things
if you were able to send paypal to the dude he must've acknowledged that you were going to send him monies
because he had to provide that info to you

if someone says they want something and ask for my paypal info or address then i give them about 24hrs
i tell other people, i have made a deal with someone already but if it falls through then i will let you know...

pretty simple.

[Peter B]

If you really want the item, then this is what you must do when you pm the seller.



"Hello I'll take the such and such for sale item and here is my PAYPAL Account. Please send an invoice or request money.
Or you can give me your Paypal Account and I'll send money.

Thank you"


Something along these lines is affirmative and clear. And letting the seller know your location/time zone or if you're going to have limited internet access for XX hours helps too.

[victoryfactory]

sellers with multiple offers sometimes take the easier or
more "secure" feeling offer even when it's technically not
first in line. Wnen selling I always make sure I inform later
bidders that I will sell to them if the current sale falls through.
This takes discipline and I must admit I've been tempted to
switch buyers. It's a fuzzy line.
What do you do when the first bidder is in NZ and the next
bidder is local and picking up today? Takes a strong sense of
propriety to stick to the original agreement.
Aggressive buyers and "flippers" put pressure on sellers too.

As for Christchurch, I hope you are doing better down there
and recovering from the earthquake. It's just bike parts,
after all.
VF