Infatuated with 'cross bikes

[Lewis Moon]

God help me, I’ve become infatuated with ‘cross bikes.

As an old racer that’s been out of the saddle for 20+ years, it feels great to be turning crank again. I’ve lost 30lbs since April and have regained the love of the entire, varied sport of cycling. Lately I’ve had to switch to riding the Skunkhumper due to some parts problems on the Paramount found while doing a 10 speed conversion. Crap, I remembered how much love fast trail riding too…..
Cue the light bulb: I’m 55 (soon a fake hip), I have a job, a 100 mile daily commute and a 12 year old…I’ll probably never race again, so why not trade the ‘Mount in on a CX bike? Hell, a lot of teams rode ‘cross bikes in the Paris/Roubaix, so they can be ridden fast on the road. My question is: what are the drawbacks of swapping the roadie for a CX? My wife would get a bit pissed if a third bike magically appeared in the garage, so having both is not cool until we win the lottery. I’ll still have the Skunkhumper for the true trail rides so the really rough stuff is covered. Does a CX bike have enough added value that I could trade in the roadie and not look back?

[AngryScientist]

dont get a true CX bike, get a road bike capable of mounting fat tires, something like the hampsten strada bianca, best of all worlds.

CX bike geometry is acceptable for the road, but not ideal.

[sc53]

Check out all the recent "gravel bike" threads for more ideas on cross bike alternatives. Seems that gravel is the new black.

[mvrider]

As I understand it, traditional CX bikes have a low BB drop to enable greater ground clearance. But some newer, especially American, CX bikes now have road-bike-like BB drops, and therefore similar center of gravity. These should have very similar handling to road bikes on pavement.

There's a whole new crop of "gravel" bikes too, with essentially road bike geometry but room for fatter tires. The chainstays should be a little longer to enable the fat tires as well.

Whether in steel, Ti, carbon, bamboo, etc., agreed that CX bikes are cool. I've taken mine on singletrack (and quickly found the need for lower gearing), and on swooping road descents as well. Quite a hoot to not worry about the pavement quality.

[Gummee]

I can tell you from personal experience that the Van Dessel Full Tilt Boogie makes a fantastic road bike AND a great cross racing rig as well.

Its a rocketship. If I were gonna race crits on it, I'd probably swap the Euro Xes out for some 8.4 mini-v brakes tho. Lower profile and better stopping...

Make sure you get bottle cages put on it tho. Its a PITA working around not having em. :nod

M

if you can't/won't afford a FTB check out November Bicycle's crabon crosser. Very similar.

[mmuurr]

for an all-arounder bike (where you don't expect to be road-racing), the newer crop of disc-brake-capable 'cross frames are very alluring.
i'm contemplating ordering a custom randonneuring frame with disc tabs, and likely would put it to dual use on both the road during the warm months and the trails during the cold.

[tiretrax]

Christmas is coming up. Have your wife call Mrs. Claus.

Gravel riding is great. Got a grinder coming up next week.

[DRZRM]

Depends on the build. Like you I have become obsessed with CX bikes even though I will likely never race them (out of shape, two small kids). I have a Zanconato that rides as well on the road as just about any road bike I've owned but is also great for cross country on fast trails, and I have a ti IF Planet-X that I recently had coupled to use as my all around travel bike, but it has a higher bottom bracket and I'd say feels slightly more at home on dirt than on the road. I take the IF on rougher trails while I guess I'm more likely to grab the Zanc for fire roads and well groomed trails...though the Zanc has performed flawlessly when I've really beat it up on cross country trails, this decision is really more about protecting the paint job on the steel frame.

If it fits I'd seriously look into this October CX bike (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=96540). If I had to keep only one, it would likely be a CX bike.

[christian]

I've only had my Zanc crosser for about a week, but I could happily ride this thing on the road all the time. Though it doesn't have bottle bosses...

And Zach, stop being silly. Of course you should race that thing. I'm searing my lungs on Saturday afternoon, and I'm surely slower than you!

[Lewis Moon]

I'm looking at possibly snagging an old Poprad. The high BB thing does scare me, but I've at least heard that the LeMonds had lower BBs.

I'd love a Zanc, but I can't afford one on just a neurosurgeon's pay, (I'm kidding, I'm a biologist) and I'll need a big one as I ride ~ 61cm on the road.

[Fixed]

Why not see if 28 's
will fit on the paramount
if you can fit it
Don't trade it
IMHO
Cheers
You have a mtb already

[djg]

I'm looking at possibly snagging an old Poprad. The high BB thing does scare me, but I've at least heard that the LeMonds had lower BBs.

I'd love a Zanc, but I can't afford one on just a neurosurgeon's pay, (I'm kidding, I'm a biologist) and I'll need a big one as I ride ~ 61cm on the road.

Really, it's not that high on a lot of cross bikes, although it might be striking on some. On a few at least -- Ridley, Empella, Guerciotti -- you'll really notice. Whether that's a bad thing is another question. You might well find a local shop with a built up stock Ridley that you could try to see what you think. On many others, it's really not much higher than on a road bike. Lots of folks are plenty happy using cross frames as "all 'rounders." You should be able to track down a Poprad geometry chart on the net even though the model is gone. I know somebody who used one as a commuter -- might be a nice versatile bike.

[Nooch]

I've only had my Zanc crosser for about a week, but I could happily ride this thing on the road all the time. Though it doesn't have bottle bosses...

And Zach, stop being silly. Of course you should race that thing. I'm searing my lungs on Saturday afternoon, and I'm surely slower than you!

Westwood CX in Harriman, Christian?

[mistermo]

Check out all the recent "gravel bike" threads for more ideas on cross bike alternatives. Seems that gravel is the new black.

It seems to me that also bikes painted in matte colors are the new black.

[sc53]

True, Mistermo. Did you see that gorgeous new Kirk in matte grey/red/white? Very moderne.

[FlashUNC]

As someone mentioned, lower BB drop for ground clearance, so you'll notice some different handling depending on the bike and the geometry.

That being said, I think a cross bike could definitely work as a single road bike. I have a Redline Conquest Pro that, if push came to shove, I could easily empty out the rest of the stable and use that as my solo bike.

I don't see a ton of downsides, particularly if you're not racing. You gain a lot of flexibility, imo.

[JayBay]

I love my Crux. I built it with gravel in mind, but mostly I ride it on the road with 25's, and it performs just as well on the tarmac as my Colorado Ti. Maybe just a touch more stable, and I like the bit of extra ground clearance for pedaling through corners. If I had to, I'd keep that (or something similar) as a do-it-all bike and skip a dedicated road bike altogether.

[MattTuck]

dont get a true CX bike, get a road bike capable of mounting fat tires, something like the hampsten strada bianca, best of all worlds.

CX bike geometry is acceptable for the road, but not ideal.

What is this 'general purpose bike' stuff??? Don't listen to AS, you must buy as many single purpose bikes as possible! One for sunny days, one for rainy days, one for good pavement, one for rought pavement, cyclocross, single speed/fixed, around town utility bike, crit bike, century bike, bike for wednesdays, traveling bike, back up bike...


;)

[christian]

Westwood CX in Harriman, Christian?
Oui, I'll be near-last in the Cs, but I'll look good doing it. You coming out?

[jpw]

I wish people would not use "low" and "lower" when describing bb clearance on cross bikes. It is likely to confuse the uninitiated.

Just say a cross frame has a higher bb....than a typical road frame.

[Lewis Moon]

...I'll also have to cop to liking the idea that: when I'm on a group ride, everyone else will be on their plastic "balloon animal" bikes, and I'll be on a steel 'cross bike. That fits my personality to a T.

[Dave B]

My favorite bikes (I have had quite a few) were always my cross bikes. I had 3 IF's and loved them all, 2 were custom, but all three were magic.

I rode them on the road, crappy roads, singletrack, races etc.

If you are just riding for fun, exercise, adventures then I say go for it.

Racing in a road race, yeah stick with a road frame for the most part.


I am starting to miss riding.

[zennmotion]

...I'll also have to cop to liking the idea that: when I'm on a group ride, everyone else will be on their plastic "balloon animal" bikes, and I'll be on a steel 'cross bike. That fits my personality to a T.

I frequently ride one of my cross bikes on fast group roadie rides, and it's not that uncommon in regions with a big cyclocross scene. The major differences between road bikes and cross bikes is the size of the tires, and the brakes that allow for wider tires on CX bikes. Yes the geometry is a bit different, but there's too much variation within bikes called "cross bikes" to generalize- and many cross bikes are very close in geometry design to road bikes that you'd feel much difference using the same size tires. The major difference between cross bikes and roadies is obviously the (maximum allowable) size of the tires, and the brake choices. Traditional cantilever brakes used for cyclocross allow for fat tires and mud clearance for cross racing, but don't have nearly the stopping power as caliper road brakes. This depends on the style (eg low vs high profile) and setup/adjustment which seems to be an issue for a lot of folks, especially newbie mechanics- it takes some practice, experimenting and patience. But there are other brake choices that can be used on a cross bike that make it more friendly for the road, at the cost of mud clearance- Vbrakes, mini-V brakes, long reach caliper brakes, (mechanical) disc brakes, and Paul Centerpull brakes all have their pros and cons and fans. My personal bias is I still like traditional cantilever brakes, even on the road, for reasons of low cost, simple retro elegance, and I'm comfortable setting them up properly. They stop my tandem just fine on Appalachian mountain roads, and I wouldn't risk my precious wife on the back if I weren't fully confident with them. But I don't road race with them, or descend long Rocky Mt passes with them- they work for me and I like being able to mount fenders with 35mm tires long live mushy gravel winter roads!

If I had to keep just one bike, it would definitely be my (steel) Ritchey breakaway cross bike. I have raced a few road races with it, competitive group rides, light touring, cyclocross racing, long event rides, gravel road adventures, and even some modestly technical singletrack, not much compromise for any of these and plenty of versatility. Plus of course, it also folds into a standard size suitcase for compact storage and airline travel. I honestly think that most non-racing riders would be better off with some road-like version of a cross bike than the road bikes that most bike shops try to push out the door- but I think this is changing for the better. The question for Mr. Moon is not whether to get a "cross" or "sorta cross-like road" bike, but which one. If you've ever contemplated taking your bike on a plane for greener pastures, I'd definitely put the Ritchey Breakaway on to the short list- and if you're really indulging yourself then maybe even the
titanium version of the breakaway. Steel's good enough for me though!

[Lewis Moon]

....Traditional cantilever brakes used for cyclocross allow for fat tires and mud clearance for cross racing, but don't have nearly the stopping power as caliper road brakes. This depends on the style (eg low vs high profile) and setup/adjustment

This is exactly counter to everything I've always heard. I always heard that while cantis had more stopping power, the modulation was the issue. The increased stopping power was exactly why you had them on MTBs, CXers and tandems.

Was I hearing wrong?

[christian]

With proper pads and alloy brake surfaces, well set-up brakes, regardless of type, have enough modulation to do rolling stoppies on tarmac and enough power to send you ass over tea-kettle.

Yes, DA calipers have better modulation than Mafac cantis, but it's not worlds apart.

This is sort of like the old "steering geometry" discussion with bicycles. Go drive a Moto Guzzi Eldo and a Vespa GS150, and then tell me that a Pinarello and a Colnago are that far apart in steering geometry. Yeah, you can feel a difference, back-to-back, but at the end of the day, they're both bikes that steer fine.

[G-Reg]

You may have come to the wrong forum if you are looking for a bike on a budget. Most recommendations here include $80 bartape.

The handling of a cross bike will likely be very different but nothing that you can't adapt to very quickly. Give the braking issue serious consideration. If braking really matters (like maybe you are fat and love to descend steep hills in the rain with stop signs at the bottom) Canti's may not be the right option. There are very good reason all the serious crosser are going disc.

All that said, for 95% of riders canti's will serve the purpose.

As long as you don't mind riding a bike with a dopers name on it, the Poprad is a awesome bike with an almost cult following.

Also, if hammering is not something you are likely to do, don't completely discount a touring bike. They are every bit as versatile as a CX bike.

[G-Reg]

....

Was I hearing wrong?

Yes! MTB quickly went away from canti to V brakes.

[zennmotion]

This is exactly counter to everything I've always heard. I always heard that while cantis had more stopping power, the modulation was the issue. The increased stopping power was exactly why you had them on MTBs, CXers and tandems.

Was I hearing wrong?

Yes, that's not correct. There's a lot of info in the forum(s) and elsewhere about cantilever brakes. Some of it is even true:confused:, for a component so simple there is a lot of poorly understood BS, like some long-lost black art (I'm over 50, I can say that). MTBs first used cantis instead of more powerful sidepull calipers used on road bikes because they needed clearance for the fat tires. Then Vbrakes came along, mostly because they are easier to set up than fussy cantilevers that require the right combination of straddle length, cable adjustment, brake pad toe-in etc. With optimal setup (not always possible on all bikes) canti brakes are nearly as powerful as Vbrakes. But their setup is often compromised to work with the bike, or because the mechanic didn't/couldn't take the time to really dial them in- it can be a bit of a trial. But neither Vbrakes, cantilever brakes or mini-V brakes stop as quickly, or modulate as well as caliper road brakes- otherwise you'd see them on road racing bikes. Cantis and Vbrakes trade the better brake performance (power and modulation) for greater tire clearance. But there are plenty of ways to adjust cantilevers to be perfectly acceptable (opinion- YMMV) for road use- I've figured my setups out pretty well, but I wouldn't necessarily trust your average part time bike shop rat mechanic to know what to do with them. It's the grouchy old man in me- you kids stay away from my brakes!

[Lewis Moon]

Yes, that's not correct.

Wow, you learn something new every day.

[zennmotion]

You may have come to the wrong forum if you are looking for a bike on a budget. Most recommendations here include $80 bartape.

The handling of a cross bike will likely be very different but nothing that you can't adapt to very quickly. Give the braking issue serious consideration. If braking really matters (like maybe you are fat and love to descend steep hills in the rain with stop signs at the bottom) Canti's may not be the right option. There are very good reason all the serious crosser are going disc.

All that said, for 95% of riders canti's will serve the purpose.

As long as you don't mind riding a bike with a dopers name on it, the Poprad is a awesome bike with an almost cult following.

Also, if hammering is not something you are likely to do, don't completely discount a touring bike. They are every bit as versatile as a CX bike.

I respectfully disagree on a couple of points here. Discs are great among other great choices. We'll see more and more on cross bikes in the future. But not everybody is ready to jump yet, including me, what with weight, and multiple wheels/bikes- someday maybe, but I don't feel disadvantaged for not having them- and waiting for lighter and hydraulic versions in any case. I may be old but I still compete in 20+ cross races every year for more than a decade now, a full N. American season, and KISS principles work well for me and my cross bikes. Disc brakes may be the future for cross, but just not quite yet, and certainly not "all the serious crossers" yet.

The other thing is, a touring bike is a touring bike. I'm assuming you mean a bike for loaded touring, as like in "cross" bikes a touring bike means different things to different people. It offers the versatility for loaded touring. But super long chainstays, heavy stiff tubing (necessary decent handling with loaded panniers) and lowish trail front geometry, a bike designed for touring is not a lot of fun to ride without a load, sluggish, heavy and overbuilt. The OP would be poorly served with a "touring bike", it would ride like a tank on a fast group ride (one of his stated uses)

[Lewis Moon]

I respectfully disagree on a couple of points here. Discs are great among other great choices. We'll see more and more on cross bikes in the future. But not everybody is ready to jump yet, including me, what with weight, and multiple wheels/bikes- someday maybe, but I don't feel disadvantaged for not having them- and waiting for lighter and hydraulic versions in any case. I may be old but I still compete in 20+ cross races every year for more than a decade now, a full N. American season, and KISS principles work well for me and my cross bikes. Disc brakes may be the future for cross, but just not quite yet, and certainly not "all the serious crossers" yet.

The other thing is, a touring bike is a touring bike. I'm assuming you mean a bike for loaded touring, as like in "cross" bikes a touring bike means different things to different people. It offers the versatility for loaded touring. But super long chainstays, heavy stiff tubing (necessary decent handling with loaded panniers) and lowish trail front geometry, a bike designed for touring is not a lot of fun to ride without a load, sluggish, heavy and overbuilt. The OP would be poorly served with a "touring bike", it would ride like a tank on a fast group ride (one of his stated uses)

When I first started riding again earlier this year, I started out on a Nishiki International. The fact that it handled like (and weighed as much as) the Queen Mary is what convinved me to go with the Waterford Paramount. That said, for some reason the 'Mount seems a bit skittish, and from the lack of fork rake, I think I know why. I'd like to be somewhere in between, and also have the option of running fatter tires to avoid being beat to death on some of the paved roads around here.

[zennmotion]

When I first started riding again earlier this year, I started out on a Nishiki International. The fact that it handled like (and weighed as much as) the Queen Mary is what convinved me to go with the Waterford Paramount. That said, for some reason the 'Mount seems a bit skittish, and from the lack of fork rake, I think I know why. I'd like to be somewhere in between, and also have the option of running fatter tires to avoid being beat to death on some of the paved roads around here.

If I remember correctly, the Nishiki was one of the ubiquitous made-in-Japan "sport touring bikes"- and the Paramount was/is a short wheelbased race bike, apples and oranges. There are plenty of current options now, and just about all of them would be a better (for you) choice than the Nishiki or the Paramount. I think you could get quite a few good suggestions if you added a few more details of what you're looking for. Namely more about your riding style, where/how you want to ride, and of course how much you want to spend. Do you want fenders, or are you too smart to ride in the rain? A road bike with relaxed geometry and long reach (57mm) caliper brakes might be perfect- for tires up to 33mm or so without fenders, or 28mm or so with fenders. If you want bigger tires than that, you'll need a bike with either cantiliever studs or disc mounts on the fork and rear stay(s). If you can answer the tire question, a lot falls into place. I'm fine on 28mm tires on dry, hard unpaved but somewhat maintained roads (eg farm roads). When it rains, or the road has been grated with loose gravel, or there's sharp downhills on gravel, or the road is wet and soft I want something wider like a 32mm tire. When I ride on unpaved roads in wet conditions, I want fenders for comfort and keep the grit out of the bike, so I need clearance for that. If I want all that (32+mm tires AND fenders) I need cantis or Vbrakes/miniV's, and Cantis play nicer with fenders than Vbrakes. Maybe you might be considering pinning a number on and doing a few cross races- the over 50 category fields get larger every year, so if you have the itch, (and the hip) maybe a cyclocross bike is the way to go. Falling on grass is much better than pavement, and the sport is very (very!) addictive. Kiss your wife g'bye in September, be home for Christmas honey!

Do you want to buy this off the floor from a local shop, or buy a frame and build yourself, or would you consider a custom to get everything exactly as you want with no compromise? If you're looking at mid to high end production bikes, a custom frame wouldn't be much more, and you can save on the components- 105/Rival/Veloce level stuff all works really great, and much better than the old school stuff, no compromise in function/durability over more expensive lines, just mostly weight and finish. Most important, what color you looking for???

[559Rando]

Why not see if 28 's will fit on the paramount

Sage advice. Bigger tires can do a lot to add versatility to your "road" bike. For fun, check out Chris Kostman's article, _Mountain Bikes: Who Needs Them?_ (http://any-bike-anywhere.blogspot.com/2007/09/mountain-bikes-who-needs-them.html)

I wish people would not use "low" and "lower" when describing bb clearance on cross bikes. It is likely to confuse the uninitiated.

Just say a cross frame has a higher bb....than a typical road frame.

+1

Also, if hammering is not something you are likely to do, don't completely discount a touring bike. They are every bit as versatile as a CX bike.

+1 for the touring bike

When I first started riding again earlier this year, I started out on a Nishiki International. The fact that it handled like (and weighed as much as) the Queen Mary is what convinved me to go with the Waterford Paramount. That said, for some reason the 'Mount seems a bit skittish, and from the lack of fork rake, I think I know why. I'd like to be somewhere in between, and also have the option of running fatter tires to avoid being beat to death on some of the paved roads around here.

The International went through many geometries, from sport touring to stage race. I had a beige International for a while that road beautifully and had great ornate lugs, was relatively light. I think it was an '82 (or so).


Do you want fenders, or are you too smart to ride in the rain? A road bike with relaxed geometry and long reach (57mm) caliper brakes might be perfect- for tires up to 33mm or so without fenders, or 28mm or so with fenders.
(((snip)))
Do you want to buy this off the floor from a local shop, or buy a frame and build yourself, or would you consider a custom to get everything exactly as you want with no compromise? If you're looking at mid to high end production bikes, a custom frame wouldn't be much more, and you can save on the components- 105/Rival/Veloce level stuff all works really great, and much better than the old school stuff, no compromise in function/durability over more expensive lines, just mostly weight and finish.

This helped me put together a couple ideas: the Rawland Nordavinden might be worth looking at and there's a cool LBS here that has a good size web presence called Adrenaline Bikes. They offer various build kits on bike that come as frame only. They're a Rawland dealer, so they could probably build you a killer Nordavinden with SRAM Rival or Force, or whatever you want.

[fogrider]

I'm always amused by someone wanting to use a cx bike for a road bike. sure you can do it, but it all depends on your expectations for your bike. I mean sure a custom ti moots cx bike is great, but compared to a road crumpton or parlee with carbon tubulars and campy 11 speed for a 60 mile hilly road ride, I'll take the road bike every time. but if you put up a modern cx bike against a vintage steel bike, I might take the modern cx for the same ride.

[Fixed]

Sage advice. Bigger tires can do a lot to add versatility to your "road" bike. For fun, check out Chris Kostman's article, _Mountain Bikes: Who Needs Them?_ (http://any-bike-anywhere.blogspot.com/2007/09/mountain-bikes-who-needs-them.html)



+1



+1 for the touring bike



The International went through many geometries, from sport touring to stage race. I had a beige International for a while that road beautifully and had great ornate lugs, was relatively light. I think it was an '82 (or so).



This helped me put together a couple ideas: the Rawland Nordavinden might be worth looking at and there's a cool LBS here that has a good size web presence called Adrenaline Bikes. They offer various build kits on bike that come as frame only. They're a Rawland dealer, so they could probably build you a killer Nordavinden with SRAM Rival or Force, or whatever you want.
Eye opening prospective IMHO
Cheers :)

[mistermo]

I'm always amused by someone wanting to use a cx bike for a road bike. sure you can do it, but it all depends on your expectations for your bike. I mean sure a custom ti moots cx bike is great, but compared to a road crumpton or parlee with carbon tubulars and campy 11 speed for a 60 mile hilly road ride, I'll take the road bike every time. but if you put up a modern cx bike against a vintage steel bike, I might take the modern cx for the same ride.

Problem is nowadays, most road bikes are 'race' bikes. They're limiting in the tire sizes they'll take, and are designed for young 'uns who are more flexible than a middle-ager with kids.

The new crop of 'gravel' bikes are really more like a traditional road bike, but until this segment gains acceptance, cross bikes are filling this void nicely.

If I'm riding in a paceline, yeah maybe a modern 'road' bike may work better. But for all else, I'd opt for fatter tires and more relaxed geometry than the current offering of 'road' bikes.

[zennmotion]

I'm always amused by someone wanting to use a cx bike for a road bike. sure you can do it, but it all depends on your expectations for your bike. I mean sure a custom ti moots cx bike is great, but compared to a road crumpton or parlee with carbon tubulars and campy 11 speed for a 60 mile hilly road ride, I'll take the road bike every time. but if you put up a modern cx bike against a vintage steel bike, I might take the modern cx for the same ride.

An amusing thing- on my commute this morning a gorgeous car passed me on my neighborhood street- I think it was a Lamborghini. Then a block ahead it slowed to a crawl. Turns out it needed to hit the speed humps on a diagonal vector, one wheel at a time so as not to bottom out on the bump even at 15 mph. Hilarious. I'd love the Lambo in a street race, but I don't do street races. I bet if you switched those carbon tubs, with some nice veloflex tires and campy 11 to the Moots, you wouldn't go any slower. Just sayin', horses for courses. Lars Boom would probably agree.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/videos/lars-boom-explains-why-hell-use-his-cross-bike-for-paris-roubaix-1552796290001

[Lewis Moon]

If I remember correctly, the Nishiki was one of the ubiquitous made-in-Japan "sport touring bikes"- and the Paramount was/is a short wheelbased race bike, apples and oranges.....

A bit about my background: I started racing in '75 on a Raleigh Pro. Got as high as Cat. 2 riding a Pogliaghi, an Olmo and a couple of local customs. I didn't race through the mid to late '80s but started again around 1989. I raced on Benottos and Colnagos and ended up on a Serotta before quitting to take up rock climbing. I was pretty much known as a hammerhead, although I was never as tactically savvy as I needed to be. I HATED crits, loved rolling road races and could sprint a bit. I always felt better on bikes with "stage race" geometry and prefer stable and comfortable over twitchy. The Paramount is '80s twitchy.
I love "adventure" riding in new places, but I also love to pound. As an older rider who has basically abused his body, I'd love a softer ride. For some reason, I cannot stand "touring" bikes. Racing snob, I guess.

[mhespenheide]

I'm looking at possibly snagging an old Poprad. The high BB thing does scare me, but I've at least heard that the LeMonds had lower BBs.

I'm striking out on finding a cited source, but before I bought mine, I remember reading that the Poprad has a BB drop of 74mm across the line, regardless of frame size. It's one of the lowest BB's in any non-custom 'cross bike, and lower than many road bikes. I haven't ridden mine much yet, as I'm trying to re-build it with polished components. From what few miles I've ridden, the handling is slower than most road bikes, but still plenty nice. Almost like a touring frame, to be honest.

Padraig from Red Kite Prayer had an article about building a 'cross bike with a lower BB:
http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/2008/01/low-slung-fun.html

And it might be an overall trend:
http://www.cxmagazine.com/bottom-bracket-height-dropping-in-cyclocross-bike-geometries

Right now, I do a lot of riding on a Specialized tricross. The ability to fit fatter tires is a big plus in my area, rural Utah, where the paved roads are usually in lousy shape, and there's lots of gravel and dirt roads to explore. When the poprad gets finished, I'll either sell the tricross or shift it around for commuting.

[mhespenheide]

Sorry; I should add that the Specialized has a middling BB drop/height; I think it was specified at 68mm drop. I don't feel quite as much a "part" of that bike when riding it on the road as I do with my Paramount road bike. It's just a little bit more like I'm "on top" of the bike. I'm sure that's a function of a variety of factors, not just the BB height, but it makes me wonder...

[G-Reg]

...... prefer stable and comfortable over twitchy......

I love "adventure" riding in new places,.......

I'd love a softer ride......



A CX bike is most likely what will make you the happiest, but taken what you said very slightly out of context, a touring bike fits the bill better than a CX.

You could go from a race snob to a sandbagger!

[fogrider]

An amusing thing- on my commute this morning a gorgeous car passed me on my neighborhood street- I think it was a Lamborghini. Then a block ahead it slowed to a crawl. Turns out it needed to hit the speed humps on a diagonal vector, one wheel at a time so as not to bottom out on the bump even at 15 mph. Hilarious. I'd love the Lambo in a street race, but I don't do street races. I bet if you switched those carbon tubs, with some nice veloflex tires and campy 11 to the Moots, you wouldn't go any slower. Just sayin', horses for courses. Lars Boom would probably agree.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/videos/lars-boom-explains-why-hell-use-his-cross-bike-for-paris-roubaix-1552796290001

my lightweight go fast is more like FR-S...and if you haven't checked, carbon hoops are the hottest thing in racing cross. I will say that my cross bike is way fun to ride, but if I'm doing 60 miles on the road, I'm not taking a cross bike! I'm just saying.

[fourflys]

I effing LOVE cross bikes and often catch myself trying to buy another one (that October in the classifieds is sweet)... If I could only have one bike, it would be a cross bike... my first real bike was a cross bike and it was my only bike for a couple of years... I had a second set of wheels with road tires and it was awesome... My current cross bikes are my Ibis Hakkalugi and the steel Ritchey Break Away for travel... the Lugi is great with road or cross tires and could easily serve as an only bike... in fact with Conti Speed tires, it does very well on pavement or gravel/dry dirt... found out today they aren't ideal on wet/slick stuff... ;)

BTW- I've had a BB7 disc bike and wasn't that impressed, it worked fine just "meh"... now if you want stopping power and good feel, the TRP CX series is pretty awesome... I'm a huge fan of Paul Components brakes as well and can't wait to the try the new mini-motos...

If on a budget, I think it would be hard to beat the Black Mountain Cycles cross for a do it all bike...
http://www.blackmtncycles.com/p/black-mountain-cycles-frames.html

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1432/5099798734_7eec0b97c1.jpg

[Jack Brunk]

Just get a Firefly titanium all arounder and close this thread. Anything else? :)

[jlwdm]

You may have come to the wrong forum if you are looking for a bike on a budget. Most recommendations here include $80 bartape.

...

Really? Seems to me more dominated by riders looking for deals in the classifieds.

Jeff

[Jack Brunk]

Really? Seems to me more dominated by riders looking for deals in the classifieds.

Jeff

Or looking to argue with the Lance haters/likers.

[G-Reg]

Or looking to argue with the Lance haters/likers.

Or looking to report the latest atrocity against some innocent cyclist.

[efuentes]

i think it would be hard to beat the black mountain cycles cross for a do it all bike...
http://www.blackmtncycles.com/p/black-mountain-cycles-frames.html

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1432/5099798734_7eec0b97c1.jpg

x2!

[Lewis Moon]

Just get a Firefly titanium all arounder and close this thread. Anything else? :)

Fireflys are incredible...but I bought a Poprad.

[Fixed]

Fireflys are incredible...but I bought a Poprad.


Does it look like this ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-LeMond-Poprad-Steel-Disc-Cyclocross-55cm-56-5-top-tube-/110941016110?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item19d499902e
Nice bike enjoy
Cheers

[Lewis Moon]

Just to dredge this up...

Some one here cautioned me against riding a CX frame for long road rides. I did a little bit of a comparison between my Paramount's geometry and that of the Poprad I just bought:

Paramount: Head: 73, Seat: 74, Drop: 71, Rake: 41, Stays: 411, TT: 58.5
Poprad: Head: 73, Seat: 72.5, Drop: 74, Rake: 45, Stays: 430, TT: 59

It looks to me like the Poprad will be a more stable and (probably) more comfortable ride, especially with larger section tires. Of course the Poprad is probably not your typical CX frame and may have been a bid to make a hybrid touring/CX bike.

[Gummee]

Come spring, the road pedals are going back on the Full Tilt Boogie. Only other mods will be putting the 50t ring back on and running some 23c tires.

Its pretty much good to go as a road bike as long as I want to ride it.

Ditto with my Crosshairs.

YMMV

M

[Dave B]

Just to dredge this up...

Some one here cautioned me against riding a CX frame for long road rides. I did a little bit of a comparison between my Paramount's geometry and that of the Poprad I just bought:

Paramount: Head: 73, Seat: 74, Drop: 71, Rake: 41, Stays: 411, TT: 58.5
Poprad: Head: 73, Seat: 72.5, Drop: 74, Rake: 45, Stays: 430, TT: 59

It looks to me like the Poprad will be a more stable and (probably) more comfortable ride, especially with larger section tires. Of course the Poprad is probably not your typical CX frame and may have been a bid to make a hybrid touring/CX bike.

Seems like a good reason to ride it on a long ride atmo.

[GRAVELBIKE]

*cough* gateway drug *cough*

[Lewis Moon]

*cough* gateway drug *cough*

Gateway...I've moved on to freebasing. I blame you guys.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Gateway...I've moved on to freebasing. I blame you guys.

First taste is free. ;)

[mvrider]

dont get a true CX bike, get a road bike capable of mounting fat tires, something like the hampsten strada bianca, best of all worlds.

CX bike geometry is acceptable for the road, but not ideal.

A new entrant (http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/09/27/interbike-2012-velooranges-new-campeur-touring-frameset-and-other-very-shiny-things/#more-49789), perhaps?

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/VeloOrange-Campeur-Gravel-Bike-600x400.jpg

Build it up as a loaded touring bike, randonneur, a grocery getter, commuter, or even a gravel racer as pictured above. For the show, the guys at VeloOrange decided to see just how big of a tire they could get on the Campeur. Turns out a 61cm frame will fit the Panaracer FireCross tire (thats a 45c tire). Stepping down in size, you can still run a 40c.

[rab]

Gateway...I've moved on to freebasing. I blame you guys.

Ha! Love it.

When I first got into cx racing I think that was like going from using cocaine as a weekend recreational drug to injecting methamphetamine daily.

Perhaps with the potential to be more addictive and expensive though.

All geometry/handling arguments are pretty good so won't try to add anything else there but something that can really make a big difference, especially for gravel grinding, is the handlebar choice.

Check out something with a little flare like the Salsa cowbell line. more compact and wider in the drops. Really does seem to add to the stability.
http://salsacycles.com/components/cowbell_3
Not to mention the cowbell 3s are pretty cheap!