Any bike mechanics that really know Campy in Austin?

[2manybikes]

Have an issue with a clicking crank on a 11 speed super record set up. Contacted Dave Hartley from the former Music City cycles and he won't work on it since he is only working on prior customers' bikes. He claims it should be able to be fixed with with proper facing, torque, and installation but doesn't have a recommendation on who to take it to. BTW, it is a Titanium frame.


Thanks!

[Mikej]

just wondering - I recently set up a record 11 (non super) and other than the reverse threaded ti spindle / hirth bolt seems the same. New ti frame as well. Mine clicked all of a sudden. I went through the usual suspects and it was either the plate the cleats screw into on my 6.6 sidis which I caulked or the actual pedal spindle threads which I used high temp teflon tape. (just a thicker version of plumbers tape) I did them at the same time, thats why I dont know whiich one worked. Good luck. Maybe look into a local builder who could help with the face.

[oldpotatoe]

Have an issue with a clicking crank on a 11 speed super record set up. Contacted Dave Hartley from the former Music City cycles and he won't work on it since he is only working on prior customers' bikes. He claims it should be able to be fixed with with proper facing, torque, and installation but doesn't have a recommendation on who to take it to. BTW, it is a Titanium frame.


Thanks!

Many times an obviously noisy BB, is something else.

BUT grease inside BB shell. Install BB cups with teflon tape. make sure they are TIGHT. Use Record cups, not SR. Grease inside cups, lotsa grease. Also on the hirth joint, around the wavy washer.. Tighten TIGHT(to torque).

Also check cleats, pedals, rear wheel, CR bolts....

[AngryScientist]

in reality, this is certainly not a campy specific issue. any respectable shop should be able to sort you out on this one. old potatoe's advice is good though, grease everywhere, in copious amounts; and those cups need to be tight tight tight.

[malcolm]

very hard to know where noises are coming from, I've had what I was convinced was bb noise that got better with a light greasing and tightening of the saddle seat post contact. Tracking down noise I usually try and start simple and go through everything top to bottom and front to back before attacking the bb and for me I usually fix it sometimes without knowing for sure what did it without messing with the bb.

[nicrump]

i will immediately duck after suggesting this... there is no good reason why you should have noise if all is correctly installed and torqued and the frame is properly faced and cleaned as many here have noted.

my own general physician here in austin(does not ride a crumpton) had told me about a clicking in his tig welded ti frame... said no one could get it to stop.

i took a very close look at it and found what i believe is the source.

it appears all 4 tubes were brought to the BB shell at once and eventually welded up nice and neat. what you have is the ST making full contact with the BB shell but not fully welded. the portion of the ST under the DT interference cut just sitting on the shell. i think a very plausible explanation for the creak that just wont go away

DUCK.....

*edit* not saying this is your problem but one on a Ti frame that everyone in town had touched and swapped parts on to no avail.

[oldpotatoe]

i will immediately duck after suggesting this... there is no good reason why you should have noise if all is correctly installed and torqued and the frame is properly faced and cleaned as many here have noted.

my own general physician here in austin(does not ride a crumpton) had told me about a clicking in his tig welded ti frame... said no one could get it to stop.

i took a very close look at it and found what i believe is the source.

it appears all 4 tubes were brought to the BB shell at once and eventually welded up nice and neat. what you have is the ST making full contact with the BB shell but not fully welded. the portion of the ST under the DT interference cut just sitting on the shell. i think a very plausible explanation for the creak that just wont go away

DUCK.....

*edit* not saying this is your problem but one on a Ti frame that everyone in town had touched and swapped parts on to no avail.

NO reason to duck. I have seen this on a LOT of aluminum frames. The 'fix' was some warmed linseed oil into the seat tube and downtube...let sit..click gone as it lubed the portion of the seattube or downtube that wasn't completely welded or mitered well. The 'weld' is really only on the outside of the tube, afterall.

[nicrump]

i duck because im an fb suggesting an fb did a bad thing.

[malcolm]

NO reason to duck. I have seen this on a LOT of aluminum frames. The 'fix' was some warmed linseed oil into the seat tube and downtube...let sit..click gone as it lubed the portion of the seattube or downtube that wasn't completely welded or mitered well. The 'weld' is really only on the outside of the tube, afterall.

Is the weld only on the outside? I have no idea about bikes but in another lifetime I used to weld pipe and a proper TIG root pass should penetrate all the way through and produce a bead very similar (maybe not as pretty), to what you see on the outside. In fact if it didn't it would never pass non destructive testing and would fail if that particular joint were tested. Again not sure if this holds up to welding bike pipes or not.

[nicrump]

the idea is where you have 2 tubes interfering as they approach a 3rd(DT and ST to BB). the tube(usually the ST) that gets a full mate to the BB should be fully welded to the BB before the second tube placed.

[2manybikes]

Thanks for all the input. It is definitely coming from the crank / BB. I can reproduce it by putting pressure on the crank arm by hand while holding the down tube or seat tube. It clicks a few times and then stops. Then I stress the other side and it will click again. I've disassembled and reassembled it ensuring that Campy's instructions and torque's have been followed. Tried the recommended loctite 222 and the grease / teflon tape route. Also have tried plenty of grease on the cups, wave washer, and bearings. Also precisely measured the BB (67.7mm) then added a 1mm spacer on the non drive side between the cup and BB. This brought the stackup to 68.7mm. This was the greatest improvement, but noise is still there. Anyway, I'm really looking for a campy guy in Austin to help get this fixed. I need a guy familiar with the issue. Dave Hartley who was a certified Campy Pro shop (who won't work on it since he is out of business) said he has seen the issue and fixed it several times says it ends up being 1 of 3 issues: Cup movement due to thread wear / play in the BB, BB facing, or improper torque. Since I can't eliminate the facing possibility due to the titanium frame and hard to find someone with the right tools to face it, I'm looking for a tech that knows the issue and can nail it without experimenting with Campy. If you know someone in Austin with real Campy experience, please let me know.

Thanks,
Mark

[lhuerta]

in reality, this is certainly not a campy specific issue. any respectable shop should be able to sort you out on this one.


+1 This is certainly not a Campy specific issue...

You haven't indicated what sort of BB you are working with and if you are using press fit or threaded BB cups...an important difference when it comes to BB cups and clicking noises. If threaded follow oldpotatoe suggestions, if press fit you will want to use Loctite primer and Locite 609 or 641 to set cups. In addition try a different set of pedals and eliminate that possibility. Lastly check your QR and make sure they are firmly closed.
Lou

[Lovetoclimb]

Is your pedal or crank arm contacting any sensor for a cycling computer or something mounted to your chainstay or wheel?

[2manybikes]

I definitely appreciate all the feedback and help.

Still looking for a real Campy mechanic. Don't want to get into a huge debate about this issue. There are many threads on this issue and debates between the Rogue Mechanic guy and others on the right way to chase this issue specific to Campy's UT design. I just don't want to fart with it anymore. I've chased other issues with mechanics that claim to know what they are doing and spent a bunch of time getting nowhere. Just want to get this nailed the first time with someone who really has spent time with Campy.

BTW. It is threaded Cups on the BB. This is coming from the crank / BB. I can hold the crank in my hands and cause the issue without rotating the crank, so nothing is touching it. Thanks for all the useful hints but this is a crank / BB issue.

[nicrump]

or frame. but what the hell do i know?

[EnginCycle]

Just to give some visual. Here you can see the weld that is underneath the counter miter just poking through and will get all stitched together when the final welding happens. I do the same process for the Ti bike.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8008/7538505666_1b93a3dbf9_c.jpg

Make sense?

-Drew

[texbike]

I definitely appreciate all the feedback and help.

Still looking for a real Campy mechanic. Don't want to get into a huge debate about this issue. There are many threads on this issue and debates between the Rogue Mechanic guy and others on the right way to chase this issue specific to Campy's UT design. I just don't want to fart with it anymore. I've chased other issues with mechanics that claim to know what they are doing and spent a bunch of time getting nowhere. Just want to get this nailed the first time with someone who really has spent time with Campy.

BTW. It is threaded Cups on the BB. This is coming from the crank / BB. I can hold the crank in my hands and cause the issue without rotating the crank, so nothing is touching it. Thanks for all the useful hints but this is a crank / BB issue.

Hi Mark,

Sorry to hear about your creak. I had one on my bike earlier in the season and it drove me crazy.

There aren't any Campy-heavy shops in town, but Nelo's is probably the closest thing to it. I would be willing to bet a six pack that they sell and set up more Campy than anyone else in town. Nelo's is on Mesa just North of Spicewood Springs. You can check out that sweet Tommasini in the classifieds while you're there! :)

Cheers,

Texbike

[R2D2]

I had a nearly identical problem. I could flex the crank arm etc...
It actually turned out to be a slightly loose bolt for the water bottle cage.
It is a PITA to track noises down sometimes.

[chris7ed]

Might want to spray lube on cr bolts. It was the solution to a creaky bb for my ut crank. Another creaking bb was fixed when I greased the fd clamp.

[ultraman6970]

If you havent fixed the problem, just take the stuff appart... take the cups out, put teflon tape to the cups threads if you havent done that. Then put grease in the BB shell threads, put the cups back in and tight them as hell. Once they are tight they wont go nowhere, sincerely the torque spec is just a number for the guys that have all the tools but once the cup cant get tight no more it wont go nowhere.

Put A LOT of grease in the cups, but A LOT!!!!... I use lithium grease more than nothing because of its water repellant properties. put more grease in the bearings, at the edges of the bearings. Put the driver side in, put the clip in.

Put some grease in the wavy washer, and install it, put grease in the NDS crank bearing edge, install the crank. Assure the cranks are in the right position, put the bolt and tight as hell again. Done.

Take a look if the wavy washer has black marks, because means you have some play in there and here is were I dont want to advice you anything else because I know many here will jump like pimps asking for their money!!. :D

Hope this helps.

[2manybikes]

Ordered a set of SR cups in case the Records were slightly different since it is an SR crank. Before installed them I was going down the teflon tape route with the Record cups to see if I could get rid of the noise. Noticed as I was tightening the cups that the teflon was just getting chewed up and pushed along the threads and was going to end up between the cups and BB, so I stopped and went to the SR cups. Installed them per the instructions and the noise is gone. I think the teflon tape path might have worked if I used the "gas" (yellow) type instead of the white. The SR cups had the thread lock tape installed and that was the only difference besides the back seals that I could tell between the record cups. Or of course if there was a difference in the cups and I needed SR cups.

Also, there was black marks on the wave washer, but I tried to help this with the 1mm spacer previously but didn't completely eliminate the problem. Maybe the new wave washer helped also.

Now that this is fixed, and I previously fixed the shifting issues (wider cog spacer and updated shifter parts) I think I have all the bugs worked out. Really like this campy stuff now that it all works right. Shifts better than my 7900 and prior SRAM Red and I like the thumb shifters when I'm on the top part of the bars.

Thanks for all the input.

If you havent fixed the problem, just take the stuff appart... take the cups out, put teflon tape to the cups threads if you havent done that. Then put grease in the BB shell threads, put the cups back in and tight them as hell. Once they are tight they wont go nowhere, sincerely the torque spec is just a number for the guys that have all the tools but once the cup cant get tight no more it wont go nowhere.

Put A LOT of grease in the cups, but A LOT!!!!... I use lithium grease more than nothing because of its water repellant properties. put more grease in the bearings, at the edges of the bearings. Put the driver side in, put the clip in.

Put some grease in the wavy washer, and install it, put grease in the NDS crank bearing edge, install the crank. Assure the cranks are in the right position, put the bolt and tight as hell again. Done.

Take a look if the wavy washer has black marks, because means you have some play in there and here is were I dont want to advice you anything else because I know many here will jump like pimps asking for their money!!. :D

Hope this helps.

[ultraman6970]

Hi...

"Teflon was just getting chewed up and pushed along the threads and was going to end up between the cups and BB"... this is because you put the teflon tape at the other side, i mean if you go around in the opposite direction around the threads when you thread the cups the tape wont get chewed, dont ask me if its going left to right or right to left i never remember :)

As for the wavy washer, I have noticed that the last incarnations are made in another material and color, same with the cups. What some people does is to put 2 wavy washers together to take care of the play that happens with some bikes, besides that the thing is pretty straight forward.

As for the r or sr cups the only difference is the color and the seals that are nonexistent in the black SR cup. As for the different generations of the cups, at least with record ones the color changed and apparently they did something else but since i dont have the tools to measure (micrometer) i cant be sure.

Happy you fixed the bike...

[soulspinner]

Chased a click in my Campag 11 bb, and it wound up being chainring bolts(Torx ).

[oldpotatoe]

Hi...

"Teflon was just getting chewed up and pushed along the threads and was going to end up between the cups and BB"... this is because you put the teflon tape at the other side, i mean if you go around in the opposite direction around the threads when you thread the cups the tape wont get chewed, dont ask me if its going left to right or right to left i never remember :)

As for the wavy washer, I have noticed that the last incarnations are made in another material and color, same with the cups. What some people does is to put 2 wavy washers together to take care of the play that happens with some bikes, besides that the thing is pretty straight forward.

As for the r or sr cups the only difference is the color and the seals that are nonexistent in the black SR cup. As for the different generations of the cups, at least with record ones the color changed and apparently they did something else but since i dont have the tools to measure (micrometer) i cant be sure.

Happy you fixed the bike...

First gen Record cups were silver, had some 'noise' issues..you could take them apart and see wear inside of the cup from the bearing moving. Second gen were gold-ish, last gen a kinda green-ish..with a stiffer wavy washer. I wouldn't recommend using 2 wavy washers unless the BB shell is undersized..2 washers can kill bearings.