Just when you thought the UCI couldn't get worse...

[that guy]

UCI to introduce doping amnesty? (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to-introduce-doping-amnesty)

What a joke. Pat is in Lance's pocket. Literally (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-reveals-armstrong-made-two-donations-to-the-uci).

Pro cycling = pro wrestling. They just make up the rules as they go. I blame the UCI more than the riders.

[slidey]

You've got to be sh*tt*ng me!

To hell with pro-cycling...unless it's Contador :mad:

UCI to introduce doping amnesty? (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to-introduce-doping-amnesty)

What a joke. Pat is in Lance's pocket. Literally (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-reveals-armstrong-made-two-donations-to-the-uci).

Pro cycling = pro wrestling. They just make up the rules as they go. I blame the UCI more than the riders.

[jpw]

This must point to Armstrong having something on Pat and Hein. If he has to go down they have to go with him, and he doesn't want to go down, hence an amnesty.

[that guy]

Floyd wins the Tour!!

[bobswire]

Many of us have been suggesting this for years and has fallen on deaf ears,timing is everything. Too bad,now it only comes across as self serving.

[Fixed]

Hey they are just trying to run a bussiness
Don't they have the right to run it the way they see fit?:)
Cheers :help:

[akelman]

Many of us have been suggesting this for years and has fallen on deaf ears,timing is everything. Too bad,now it only comes across as self serving.

Agreed.

[keevon]

If amnesty encourages riders to divulge their secrets, I'm all for it. Puts us one step closer to moving beyond this crap.

Besides, there's a lot of money to be made in tell-all books.

[ljklassen]

If amnesty encourages riders to divulge their secrets, I'm all for it. Puts us one step closer to moving beyond this crap.

Besides, there's a lot of money to be made in tell-all books.

I'm not sure how you deal with all the accusations, speculation, etc. over the past 15 yrs in any other way. The sport has been tarnished all this time, and despite all the efforts to clean it up, controversy remains.

Maybe this is a last ditch effort to bust it wide open in order to really make a difference moving forward? I don't know, and i don't know how that would be necessarily.

But I'm not getting how this would play into Lance's favor. If he didn't "come clean" then he still gets stripped, if he did - well, he looks about as credible as Floyd and Tyler, which is even more costly in the court of opinion. Wouldn't this just force his hand even more, and put him in a corner, a no win situation? Or am i missing something?

[slidey]

Independent body investigating into UCI, with powers of criminally charging people involved.

I'm not sure how you deal with all the accusations, speculation, etc. over the past 15 yrs in any other way.

[firerescuefin]

Anyone that sees this as anything else but a last ditch effort at self preservation by the guys collecting the big paychecks at the UCI are mistaken.

[gdw]

"Independent body investigating into UCI, with powers of criminally charging people involved. "

What crimes have they committed?

[thinpin]

Too late me thinks. The rot must out.
McQuaid is trying to save his own neck. This should have happened months ago. The fellow is low life.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/schenk-doubts-mcquaid-has-the-credibility-to-clean-up-cycling

[that guy]

anyone that sees this as anything else but a last ditch effort at self preservation by the guys collecting the big paychecks at the uci are mistaken.

+1

[slidey]

Well, we'll only know once an independent body investigates the UCI won't we!

"Independent body investigating into UCI, with powers of criminally charging people involved. "

What crimes have they committed?

[svelocity]

Well, we'll only know once an independent body investigates the UCI won't we!

Who will pay this "independent" investigator? UCI? That's like Enron paying Arthur Andersen to be their "independent" auditor...:)

[Tony T]

All companies pay their auditors be their "independent" auditor.

[bobswire]

USADA is on board too.

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (VN) — The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency has announced its support for the Union Cycliste Internationale’s proposal of protections for riders looking to come clean of past doping sins.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/09/news/usada-uci-support-notion-of-amnesty-for-riders-coming-clean-on-doping_238012

[Tony T]

USADA is on board too.

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (VN) — The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency has announced its support for the Union Cycliste Internationale’s proposal of protections for riders looking to come clean of past doping sins.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/09/news/usada-uci-support-notion-of-amnesty-for-riders-coming-clean-on-doping_238012

Since the Tygart got his White Whale, it the other fish don't matter.

As someone said,
“USADA’s conduct raises serious concerns about whether its real interest in charging Armstrong is to combat doping, or if it is acting according to less noble motives.”

.

[bobswire]

Since the Tygart got his White Whale, it the other fish don't matter.

As someone said,
“USADA’s conduct raises serious concerns about whether its real interest in charging Armstrong is to combat doping, or if it is acting according to less noble motives.”

.

No argument from me. All parties have their own self serving motives in this affair and not a one of them is above reproach. The amnesty is not perfect but at least it gives all parties the image of saving face and just maybe will help to bring in a new day? Anyone caught going forward be banned from the sport for life and give up their first born?

[Tony T]

Floyd wins the Tour!!

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the deal that Floyd cut with the USADA :)

[svelocity]

All companies pay their auditors be their "independent" auditor.

I know. That was my point. How can you be "independent" if your bread is being buttered by the company you are auditing.;)

[Hmmm?]

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the deal that Floyd cut with the USADA :)

You're banned, Tony. It's over. We're fed up with you. You had a nice run. But the fat's in the fire.

[Rueda Tropical]

Since the Tygart got his White Whale, it the other fish don't matter.

As someone said,
“USADA’s conduct raises serious concerns about whether its real interest in charging Armstrong is to combat doping, or if it is acting according to less noble motives.”

.

Tygart offered Armstrong that deal already. The same offer to cooperate all Armstrong's team mates accepted. Lance could have been part of the solution, he chose not to be. Armstrong was treated exactly like Hincapie and the rest.

[Tony T]

Tygart offered Armstrong that deal already. The same offer to cooperate all Armstrong's team mates accepted. Lance could have been part of the solution, he chose not to be. Armstrong was treated exactly like Hincapie and the rest.

This is about the possible UCI amnesty deal that has been reported. At first it was pointed to as proof by some that the UCI is in Armstong's pocket. It was also noted as a joke, on the same level as pro-wrestling.

Now the USADA is on board with it, so it's ok.

This is the first I've heard that Armstong, or anyone else, was already offered amnesty by the USADA.

Yeah, amnesty will be the solution to cleaning up cycling. This time it will be different.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Tygart was quoted in the story as saying, “We’re glad they are open to the idea which, under the right structure, is the solution to truly cleaning up the sport."

Agreeing with the concept is one thing. Agreeing with whatever specific details the UCI might suggest is completely different. The story also notes that such an amnesty was originally USADA's idea back in July.

I strongly doubt you are going to see Tygart rolling over for anybody, least of all UCI, even after successfully landing his "white whale." I would venture to predict that UCI is going to suggest some specific self-serving details that also end up also delegating some (or all) future drug-enforcment authority to themselves and Tygart is going to reply, "Aaaaaah--NO."

Please do not make the mistake that so many do . . . interpreting a media story that reports a proposal as actually reporting a foregone conclusion or accomplished fact.

Also, Tony, my understanding is that USADA has already said that Armstrong was given the same invitation as all other riders to sit down and talk with USADA, and he was the only one who refused. He could have contributed to the solution. He chose not to.

BBD

[Tony T]

Also, Tony, my understanding is that USADA has already said that Armstrong was given the same invitation as all other riders to sit down and talk with USADA, and he was the only one who refused. He could have contributed to the solution. He chose not to.

BBD

Not sure that the invitation was just to sit and chat, I thought it was more along the lines of being invited to answer questions (not to contribute to the solution)

IMO, the only solution is to for them to get a better handle on testing, and focus on the present. Going back over 10 years is not a solution. They need to get current. And the process needs to be quicker. Did it really need to take so long with Contador?

[djg21]

This is about the possible UCI amnesty deal that has been reported. At first it was pointed to as proof by some that the UCI is in Armstong's pocket. It was also noted as a joke, on the same level as pro-wrestling.

Now the USADA is on board with it, so it's ok.

This is the first I've heard that Armstong, or anyone else, was already offered amnesty by the USADA.

Yeah, amnesty will be the solution to cleaning up cycling. This time it will be different.

It all depends on the details.

Cycling is a different sport than it was during even the Festina affair, thanks to Mr. Armstrong. It no longer is (such) a fringe sport that no one off the the European continent understands or cares about. This is precisely why Armstrong was a good target, and if I credit him for anything, it's his inadvertently bringing so much attention to the sport. Now, UCI must act transparently because too many are watching for it not to.

I think any steps taken by the UCI, including the terms of amnesty, must be negotiated with the riders because ultimately, it is their health, safety, welfare and ability to make a livelihood that has to be of paramount import. The season needs too be shorter; the races/tours need to be shorter; there needs to be a cap on how many times riders can compete.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Not sure that the invitation was just to sit and chat, I thought it was more along the lines of being invited to answer questions (not to contribute to the solution)

IMO, the only solution is to for them to get a better handle on testing, and focus on the present. Going back over 10 years is not a solution. They need to get current. And the process needs to be quicker. Did it really need to take so long with Contador?

. . . meet with him at Starbuck's for a latte. :)

He could easily have participated and then declinsed certain questions "on the advice of counsel." But he blew them off totally and was he only one to do so. High and mighty. Holier than thou. Arrogant. Not a good move.

My own take on the reasons for Contador's and other's taking so long. That's the "due process" that so many have been screaming riders don't get. Of course they get it--and the more $$ they have the more lawyers they can hire and the more due process they get.

BBD

[Tony T]

Not sure I can agree with that. As I understand the "talks" with USADA, riders were possibly given light suspensions (or none at all, not much info there -- guess we'll find out in 2020) if they gave testimony on a certain rider. Don't think they were asked to participate in cleaning up cycling. If you're correct, and Armstong was given the same "deal", then they would have asked him to give testimony against Hincapie, Contador, etc... Is this what you meant?

Regarding Contador's and other's taking so long: "due process" and "speedy process" are not mutually exclusive

[Vientomas]

Tygart, the agency's chief executive officer, also says Armstrong's lifetime ban could be revisited if he comes clean about doping in cycling.
The agency would've reduced Armstrong's punishment "if he would have been truthful and willing to meet to help the sport move forward for the good," Tygart says. "Of course, this is still possible and we always remain open, because while the truth hurts, ultimately, from what we have seen in these types of cases, acknowledging the truth is the best way forward."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/story/2012-08-26/Lance-Armstrong-Tour-de-France-doping/57336128/1

[cnighbor1]

Lance doesn't take a shower once in a while (come clean)?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Not sure I can agree with that. As I understand the "talks" with USADA, riders were possibly given light suspensions (or none at all, not much info there -- guess we'll find out in 2020) if they gave testimony on a certain rider. Don't think they were asked to participate in cleaning up cycling. If you're correct, and Armstong was given the same "deal", then they would have asked him to give testimony against Hincapie, Contador, etc... Is this what you meant?

. . . is that he was the only one who wouldn't talk to them at all. Of course, that info is provided via USADA statement. So I don't think we have Lance's professed reasons for not wanting to talk with them.

But the PR aspect is unavoidable. If he was indeed the only one who refused to have anything to do with them then it makes him look very bad and puts suspicion on him and he had to know that. He may be a pr*ck, but he's not dumb.

Regarding Contador's and other's taking so long: "due process" and "speedy process" are not mutually exclusive

Not always mutually exclusive, but often so. In this case I guess whether it was "due" enough or "speedy" enough depends on which side you are on and how it's going for you. :D

BBD

[slidey]

If dopestrong ever decides to confess, I'd love to see the pitiful spin that he's capable of. In other words, I'd expect there to be no way that donations to Livestrong surge after his admission to doping, but the sneaky snitch that he is, he'll surely find a way to victimise himself.

Tygart, the agency's chief executive officer, also says Armstrong's lifetime ban could be revisited if he comes clean about doping in cycling.
The agency would've reduced Armstrong's punishment "if he would have been truthful and willing to meet to help the sport move forward for the good," Tygart says. "Of course, this is still possible and we always remain open, because while the truth hurts, ultimately, from what we have seen in these types of cases, acknowledging the truth is the best way forward."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/story/2012-08-26/Lance-Armstrong-Tour-de-France-doping/57336128/1

[slidey]

Errata: 'may be' should read 'is'

He may be a pr*ck, ...

[Rueda Tropical]

Not sure that the invitation was just to sit and chat, I thought it was more along the lines of being invited to answer questions (not to contribute to the solution)

IMO, the only solution is to for them to get a better handle on testing, and focus on the present. Going back over 10 years is not a solution. They need to get current. And the process needs to be quicker. Did it really need to take so long with Contador?

Part of the solution is busting dopers. Otherwise the solution is total BS. Doesn't matter how far back the evidence goes it allows you to take down currently operating doping operations.

I think it's hilarious that so many Lance apologists are OK with any solution and busting anyone as long as we can continue to make believe the Lance myth is real. Touching Lance is the only thing that is a no go. If busting Lance takes down the entire current doping infrastructure and the management of the UCI it's a bad thing, a witch hunt, a travesty of justice. If you could do it without damaging Lance then it's totally OK, hang im' high. Ban the whole Spanish federation. Run Vino out of town on a rail! They are all a disgrace to the sport!

[slidey]

Hey genius, you want to talk witch hunts...then why not "try" reading these two links:

www.sportsscientists.com/2010/09/contador-tests-positive.html

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/08/the-armstrong-fallout-thoughts-and.html

Did it really need to take so long with Contador?

[Tony T]

Try to dial it down a notch slidey.

[jonsamg]

UCI to introduce doping amnesty? (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to-introduce-doping-amnesty)

What a joke. Pat is in Lance's pocket. Literally (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-reveals-armstrong-made-two-donations-to-the-uci).

Pro cycling = pro wrestling. They just make up the rules as they go. I blame the UCI more than the riders.


while the timing is bad, this is what they should have done in baseball. Just say done with it, instead of it coming out over time in dribs and drabs.

[e-RICHIE]

Pro cycling = pro wrestling. They just make up the rules as they go. I blame the UCI more than the riders.


You are aware that McQuaid is among the best racers to ever come out
of Ireland, right? The UCI and all of cycling is run by former riders atmo.

[Fixed]

You are aware that McQuaid is among the best racers to ever come out
of Ireland, right? The UCI and all of cycling is run by former riders atmo.

Maybe they the riders should vote on their representives lawyers and MBA type leaders. Run it like a bussiness ?
Just an idea maybe they are not schooled enough on how to run such a big operation :)
Cheers

[that guy]

You are aware that McQuaid is among the best racers to ever come out
of Ireland, right? The UCI and all of cycling is run by former riders atmo.

I meant I blame the UCI for turning a blind eye to such practices for so long, and then when forced, only making a half-hearted attempt to police it. From the stories I've heard (Tyler, et al.) young riders are forced to choose between a corrupt system or abandoning their dreams.

McQuaid's past as a racer only solidifies this stance, as one rider preserving the system for the others.

[e-RICHIE]

I meant I blame the UCI for turning a blind eye to such practices for so long, and then when forced, only making a half-hearted attempt to police it. From the stories I've heard (Tyler, et al.) young riders are forced to choose between a corrupt system or abandoning their dreams.

McQuaid's past as a racer only solidifies this stance, as one rider preserving the system for the others.

My point is that the UCI is (are..) the racers too atmo. You can't blame one side and ignore the other side.
This all goes back to the very beginning of the sport, not only to what is known here in the States since
Breaking Away or the bike boom or whatever reference point used.

[CunegoFan]

You are aware that McQuaid is among the best racers to ever come out
of Ireland, right? The UCI and all of cycling is run by former riders atmo.

This illustrates the situation. Three generations of McQuaids. It does not mention that one of McQuaid's sons is now an agent for riders like Nicholas Roche. It's one big stew of nepotism.

http://www.celtictrails.com/html/ct_about.shtml

[e-RICHIE]

This illustrates the situation. Three generations of McQuaids. It does not mention that one of McQuaid's sons is now an agent for riders like Nicholas Roche. It's one big stew of nepotism.

http://www.celtictrails.com/html/ct_about.shtml

Ya folks think this is new, or recent, or a stepchild of the USADA/Postal ****.
It's all ingrained and part of the sport's culture (in case they don't mean the
same thing atmo.) Now that the North American radar is watching we can see
just what effect our presence has had. I wrote elsewhere that the sport was
okay before we arrived. Once, there was a time when, if an issue arose, the
sport took care of its own. Now it eats its own instead. Seriously.