Bummed out... my Serotta is too big

[Tin Turtle]

Title says it all, I bought a pristine Atlanta off of eBay a month ago and I have been riding it this last month. It is a great bike, and I was very happy with the ride. But I had chronic pain in me left lower shoulder so I went to have a fitting (yes.. after I bought the bike). I am 6'2" with a 35" inseam and the frame is a 62. I checked online and thought I had the right size, but it looks like I was wrong.

I love the steel frame. The look, the paint - everything is what I like. But the guy doing the fitting says the top tube is 2.5" too long. I thought about finding a 58cm frame, like a Legend maybe (not a big fan of aluminum) but the guys at the LBS really talked down the componentry on the Atlanta, basically saying its not worth the swap (older Ultegra). Makes sense, it is an older bike.

Carbon is ok, but it does not appeal to me the same way as a really beautiful lugged frame. For whatever reason I like that vintage look and feel. Ti would be my next choice. Not sure what to do, I dropped $1100 on this bike. I may go to a Motobecane Ti or carbon. I just bought a FLY Team 29er in Ti and it is a very nice ride. The guys at the LBS want to put me in a Tarmac, but at $2k with 105 components I just feel I can do better.

Anyway, thought I would whine and look for moral support LOL. Not much time left and I live out of the country in the winter so if I am going to do something I need to pull the trigger soon.

[eddief]

I am 5'11" and ride a 59 top tubed bike. Not saying your bike is right and not saying your fitter is wrong. But at 6'2", 2.5 inches less top tube suggests you might be on the outside boundaries of normal looking humans. If your current top tube is 60-62, 2.5 inches less would put you on a funny bike. I wonder if you are getting good advice. Maybe you meant 2.5 cm.

[tsarpepe]

Turtle,

this is a rather typical story for someone who is new to road biking. Young bodies can adjust to frame sizes within a certain range; ailing bodies cannot. Here, a professional fit is a must. You should have started there. Internet info on sizing is a poor replacement. Many of us have gone the same way as you. I probably spent 4 years before I truly understood what is the right size frame for me. It seems that you've learned your lesson too. Now that you've dialed your fit, make sure to write down and remember the tube lengths (top tube and head tube, in particular) that make up the magic formula. Once you have these in hand, don't rush to shell out the $ on the first shiny bike they offer you at the bike store. Hang around here for a while; it won't take long until a great deal comes up in your size. It will be a great buyer's market for a while. Don't lose sleep over the fact that it's a used bike. Especially if you settle on Ti: new or used, it will still outlive you. If you don't feel like waiting, just post your dimensions and ask for offers. You'd be surprised how many two-wheeled beauties sit neglected in our garages.

[DrSpoke]

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune as I've always like those Atlanta frames.

I'm not sure if I understood you right but the Legend is a titanium frame and not alumunum. And a superb titanium frame at that.

If you can find the right size frame I probably consider a transfer of the group if you like that part of the current bike. But if they are Atlanta era they probably are dated. But you can always upgrade later. If you do, just be sure the bottom bracket, seat tube diameter (for both seatpost and FD clamp) and stem diameter on the new frame are compatable otherwise you would have to upgrade some of those items immediately.

It seems that titanium bikes aren't holding their value as well as a few years ago so I would expect some good deals out there.

Good luck

[oliver1850]

Take a look at an older Serotta frame. They generally have shorter top tubes than the frames from the Atlanta era. For example, a 60 cm Atlanta (60L size) has a 60 cm top tube, but a 60 cm Colorado II has a 58.5 TT. Customs are out there too in all vintages, so there's a lugged Serotta somewhere that fits you.

Take what the LBS tells you with a grain of salt, unless they're recommending something that they don't sell.

The only real problem with 8/9 era Shimano is the availability of replacement shifters. Finding the frame you want and moving your current parts to it is a viable option. Run them till a shifter craps out, then swap them out, if you can't find a replacement shifter. The rest of the Ultegra parts will bring decent money on ebay.

[roydyates]

I am 5'11" and ride a 59 top tubed bike. Not saying your bike is right and not saying your fitter is wrong. But at 6'2", 2.5 inches less top tube suggests you might be on the outside boundaries of normal looking humans. If your current top tube is 60-62, 2.5 inches less would put you on a funny bike. I wonder if you are getting good advice. Maybe you meant 2.5 cm.
could be 2.5cm, but 2.5in is not impossible. A 35inch inseam and 6'2" is long legs and short torso. He could need a 58 top tube and a 110 stem. If it happens that his 62x62 atlanta has a 130 stem, then his current reach could be 60cm (close to 2.5 in) too much.

For the OP, 62x58 custom serottas are not rare. Whatever your right sized bike is, chances are good you will see a custom here that fits you in the next few weeks.

[AngryScientist]

I thought about finding a 58cm frame, like a Legend maybe (not a big fan of aluminum) but the guys at the LBS really talked down the componentry on the Atlanta, basically saying its not worth the swap (older Ultegra). Makes sense, it is an older bike.



dont listen to the LBS in that regard. if the gear is in good shape, older Ultegra is very good, no need to junk parts just because they are "old".

keep an eye on craigslist and ebay. fortunately for you, very very nice older steel and titanium bikes are selling very inexpensively now, because the market is so soft for them. i'm sure within a few weeks you can source something very nice.

[msl819]

TinTurtle,

It might be helpful too to see if there are folks on here that are close to and you your size. The collective knowledge of this forum is impressive and if you are in the neighborhood of some of these folks and they are close to your size I would bet some would gladly meet up with you and help you before you spend any more money.

Like others have said I had gone the same route as you too. You and I are the same size except it sounds like you have longer legs than me. I would worry that a 58 with your legs would have your saddle to bar drop so far apart that fit would be hard there. I have a 62L CRL (61cm tt) that too is too long in the top tube but have ridden it many miles over the last 3/4 years.

What length stem are you runnning?

[bobswire]

If 58cm TT is in your geo check this one out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110948718234&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

[oldpotatoe]

Title says it all, I bought a pristine Atlanta off of eBay a month ago and I have been riding it this last month. It is a great bike, and I was very happy with the ride. But I had chronic pain in me left lower shoulder so I went to have a fitting (yes.. after I bought the bike). I am 6'2" with a 35" inseam and the frame is a 62. I checked online and thought I had the right size, but it looks like I was wrong.

I love the steel frame. The look, the paint - everything is what I like. But the guy doing the fitting says the top tube is 2.5" too long. I thought about finding a 58cm frame, like a Legend maybe (not a big fan of aluminum) but the guys at the LBS really talked down the componentry on the Atlanta, basically saying its not worth the swap (older Ultegra). Makes sense, it is an older bike.

Carbon is ok, but it does not appeal to me the same way as a really beautiful lugged frame. For whatever reason I like that vintage look and feel. Ti would be my next choice. Not sure what to do, I dropped $1100 on this bike. I may go to a Motobecane Ti or carbon. I just bought a FLY Team 29er in Ti and it is a very nice ride. The guys at the LBS want to put me in a Tarmac, but at $2k with 105 components I just feel I can do better.

Anyway, thought I would whine and look for moral support LOL. Not much time left and I live out of the country in the winter so if I am going to do something I need to pull the trigger soon.

Hmmmmm...

" but the guys at the LBS really talked down the componentry on the Atlanta"

"The guys at the LBS want to put me in a Tarmac, but at $2k with 105 components I just feel I can do better."

I think you should, like in MDs diagnosis, get a second opinion..He's saying you need a about 54cm top tube bike(about 60cm top tube on the Atlanta, 2.5 INCHES...over 6 CM...



'Sounds' like they are trying to sell ya a bike.

[cmg]

if your looking for a 58 frame there's Merckx Corsa extra in the classifieds forum, reasonably priced with lots of chrome. swap your groupset/wheels, sell the Atlanta frameset on eBay and you'll be good to go. http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=115418

[jr59]

I too would agree with some of the post here.
Don't listen to the LBS about the drive train.
If it works, it's fine. As you can always upgrade latter.
The LBS wants to sell new stuff. I am putting 9 speed DA
on a new to me frame right now. I'll ride it until I can't get
the parts to fix it any more.

As far as a frame, I try to fit the used frames I buy from the TT.
Not the ST. I've seen a lot of big frames for sale on the classifieds
of late. Some very nice stuff out there right now.

Good luck.

[FlashUNC]

Title says it all, I bought a pristine Atlanta off of eBay a month ago and I have been riding it this last month. It is a great bike, and I was very happy with the ride. But I had chronic pain in me left lower shoulder so I went to have a fitting (yes.. after I bought the bike). I am 6'2" with a 35" inseam and the frame is a 62. I checked online and thought I had the right size, but it looks like I was wrong.

I love the steel frame. The look, the paint - everything is what I like. But the guy doing the fitting says the top tube is 2.5" too long. I thought about finding a 58cm frame, like a Legend maybe (not a big fan of aluminum) but the guys at the LBS really talked down the componentry on the Atlanta, basically saying its not worth the swap (older Ultegra). Makes sense, it is an older bike.

Carbon is ok, but it does not appeal to me the same way as a really beautiful lugged frame. For whatever reason I like that vintage look and feel. Ti would be my next choice. Not sure what to do, I dropped $1100 on this bike. I may go to a Motobecane Ti or carbon. I just bought a FLY Team 29er in Ti and it is a very nice ride. The guys at the LBS want to put me in a Tarmac, but at $2k with 105 components I just feel I can do better.

Anyway, thought I would whine and look for moral support LOL. Not much time left and I live out of the country in the winter so if I am going to do something I need to pull the trigger soon.

If by older Ultegra you mean the 9-speed, 6500-era vintage, I'd stop listening to anything they had to say after they dogged that group. One of the finest ever made imo.

[spacemen3]

I wouldn't give up on that bike. Try to make it work. A 90 or 100mm quill stem might be all it takes.

[Ken Robb]

You might want to try getting your bars around the same height as your saddle or even a bit higher and see if your pain(s) go away. I'm 6'1 and ride 60-62cm bikes and there is no way I could be comfortable on a bike with a 54cm tt.

[Tin Turtle]

Wow... I am truly impressed with all of the replies here.

Yes, they were specific that the frame was 2.5 inches too long. Standover just brushes the inside of my crotch. The comments they made during measurement was that my torso was short, but I have really long arms. They stopped doing the fitting at the point where it was determined that they could not adjust the bike to fit me, and did not charge me for the fitting, so I do not have the recommended frame geo. They were saying a 56-58cm bike would be my size.

Oddly enough I asked BikesDirect (where I got my mountain bike - Motobecane) about their Ti and CF bikes, they told me 59cm in the Ti as theirs run large, but I should get a 61cm in their CF (both are Le Champion models). I had matched the geometry of the Tarmac that the LBS was selling me to the Motobecane and the 58 is the closest match. Seems odd that BD is recommending a bigger bike than the LBS.

I will measure the exact length of the top tube on the Atlanta and post some pics.

The 58cm Merckx is just stunning. Thank you very much for showing me that link as it really reminds me of what I like to ride. I just can't get excited about CF bikes. Everyone has one, and I know they are supposedly nicer rides, but a really beautiful steel frame is what makes me happy.

In reading more about the Tarmac I don't know if it is a great fit for what I want to ride. I do not race, but am doing 25-35 mile pulls and wanting to do century rides. In my 20's I rode constantly, year around, but in my 40's I picked up weight. Finally I decided to make some changes and peeled off 42 lbs in the last 80 days. My endurance is coming up, legs feel good. My flexibility is not great, but not terrible. I am about 2 inches from being able to touch my toes. The yoga classes should help with flexibility.

The Atlanta went as fast as I wanted to go anyway.

Edit: Here's one pic

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta1.jpg

[djg]

I don't get it. 2.5" is more than 6cm. It's closer to 6.5. I wouldn't be able to offer an expert fit if you were right here in front of me, and there are different ways to partition 74", and different folks have different issues, and blah, blah . . . but he's fitting a guy who is 6'2" to a 55.5cm top tube?

I mean maybe, but that's far enough off from my first, second, or third guess that I'd have to wonder. I'd recommend looking for a second opinion before I plunk money down on a new bike. And honestly, if you're having pain while riding according to someobody's textbook measures, apart from PT, how about working with somebody good to nail down contact points that work for you first, and then see what you need to make everything else work as well as possible second. For example, with some guidance from a good fitter, an adjustable stem (ergostem or something similar), and a willingness to spring for and try some different bars, find a saddle, pedal, bar triangle that works for you on the bike you have. Then ask whether you need to make other changes to get the balance and handling you'd like. Maybe that means a new frame or bike in the end, but maybe not.

[Liberace]

I don't get it. 2.5" is more than 6cm. It's closer to 6.5. I wouldn't be able to offer an expert fit if you were right here in front of me, and there are different ways to partition 74", and different folks have different issues, and blah, blah . . . but he's fitting a guy who is 6'2" to a 55.5cm top tube?

I mean maybe, but that's far enough off from my first, second, or third guess that I'd have to wonder. I'd recommend looking for a second opinion before I plunk money down on a new bike. And honestly, if you're having pain while riding according to someobody's textbook measures, apart from PT, how about working with somebody good to nail down contact points that work for you first, and then see what you need to make everything else work as well as possible second. For example, with some guidance from a good fitter, an adjustable stem (ergostem or something similar), and a willingness to spring for and try some different bars, find a saddle, pedal, bar triangle that works for you on the bike you have. Then ask whether you need to make other changes to get the balance and handling you'd like. Maybe that means a new frame or bike in the end, but maybe not.

Pretty sure he means 2.5cm not inches.

[bcm119]

I think the clear consensus is that you should go to another LBS. Most LBSs are pretty bad; try to find a good one with a recommended fitter near you.

[wallymann]

...based on your description of where you are in your "comeback", looking at how your bike is configured, and the description of the fitting that you got...i'd say your body is still adapting to being a cyclist.

for someone as tall as you the saddle looks wayyyy forward, the stem looks wayyy short, and teh saddle looks wayyy low. i'm not saying that any of that position is wrong but i think that your desired position will be changing quite a bit over the next 1-2 seasons as your body continues its adaptations.

i have had a couple buddys make similar returns to the peloton after gaining alot of weight with their lifestyles taking them pretty far afield of being an athlete much less a cyclist. but when they started their return the bikes/positions they needed early on (short and high) was quite different to where they are now a couple years down the road. (longer and lower, but still not quite as long/low as when they were in their 20s)

that said, the serotta is clearly too big for you. a 58 seattube with maybe a 56 top-tube would do you fine right now. but, like i said, there's a pretty strong chance that you wont end up there in a couple seasons.

so when you do get a bike for now, maybe make it a "way-point" purchase, one that works with where your position needs to be now, but maybe dont spend so much and dont invest too much emotion into finding "that perfect" frame, with the expectation that you'll need something different in a couple seasons. when your position and adaptation does settle down, then start looking for that super-fine steel merckx or whatever floats your boat!

[PaMtbRider]

Too bad about the bike not fitting. I remember watching this on Ebay and thinking someone got a good deal. The good news is if you decide to sell it you shouldn't lose much, if any money.

[CNY rider]

Interesting position of the green post behind the bike.
I wonder if its straight or not?
Cause if it is it looks like you have almost zero setback.

[Tin Turtle]

Just to clarify - It is 2.5 inches, they told me the only way to fix it would be if the handlebars were sitting directly over the steering tube.

Here are some additional pictures I just took. Last one shows the view I see (approximately) over the handlebars.

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_standover.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_riding1.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_riding2.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_riding3.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_cockpit.jpg

Thanks again for all the replies and thought regarding my problem. It's great to have a resource like this.

Oh, and the green post is not straight :)

[djg]

Pretty sure he means 2.5cm not inches.

Maybe -- maybe it's a typo, and obviously I don't know what the LBS said beyond what I'm reading here -- but he said it in two different posts, the second one seeking to confirm and expand upon the first.

If it's 2.5cm on that large a frame, then I'm not sure why the LBS thought that a fitting was pointless and the bike not salvageable (or not for the OP). I mean, even if we suppose that the saddle position is spot on, that's not a short stem and those are not short reach bars in the picture. Surely he could bring things in by a couple of cm by changing out the bars and stem, without making the bike unrideable. Doing that would be a way to test the proposed contact points to see if rider is or can get comfortable with them. There's nothing wrong with a new bike, and maybe something else would offer better balance or comfort, but I find myself wondering about his fitting advice in any case.

Update, and hadn't seen the latest post when I wrote this: "Just to clarify - It is 2.5 inches, they told me the only way to fix it would be if the handlebars were sitting directly over the steering tube."

[jr59]

Seeing those pics;

I would seek out a few more opinions.
That bike does not look to large for you,

You sure aren't going to fit a 5? anything!

[pakora]

Just a little moral support - I'm tall and weirdly proportioned (6'5" but ~36" inseam,so long torso and arms) and have had a hard time fitting myself to anything at all.

Some folks are saying take shops with a grain of salt and I'll join the chorus - I was just fitted to a custom bike with a 64cm top tube, but I would say that before I gave up on finding a new production bike, 90% of shops pushed me toward whatever they sold, and a large subset of those pushed me to the largest thing they had in stock, which obviously was nowhere close (as small as a 57! - "we'd just need to change the post and stem to stretch you out a bit" :eek:). To be fair, these were all eyeball fittings - since my own too-small bike was bigger than any I looked at, I didn't go further than a little talk and then looking up specs online.

Being at the fringes of standard sizing can be extremely frustrating - heh especially since fitting if you are standard sized but don't know your comfort, fitness and endurance yet can be frustrating!

[pakora]

Seeing those pics;

I would seek out a few more opinions.
That bike does not look to large for you,

You sure aren't going to fit a 5? anything!

As a noob and after all the detailed opinions I refrained from saying this, but from the pics I agree.

[tuxbailey]

As a noob and after all the detailed opinions I refrained from saying this, but from the pics I agree.

me too. You could change the stem to a shorter reach and also raise it higher. You can also change the bar to one with a shorter reach. That is Smiley recommend for my commuter bike, which has a 1" fork with quill stem. I got the Salsa Poco bar.

[eddief]

much taller headtube. I also manage to fit on a stock Roubaix with a 58 top tube, saddle pushed back, slight upjutting stem.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-un2FueOswS0/T2EQlPwpUqI/AAAAAAAAB4s/h8AewRGhmNI/s800/Eddie%2520Flayer%2520Design%2520Rev.JPG

[Tin Turtle]

There is a Serotta fitter fairly close, it is $200. From what I have read Get A Grip Cycles is one of the best in the area, but they want $325.

[weiwentg]

2.5 inches is 635 millimeters. that is a LOT for the TT to be allegedly be off by.

I am not a fitter. the OP looks stretched in the drops. but not stretched by 635mm. am I that far off?

[dave thompson]

I'm going to hazard a guess here, base solely on the pics that you provided, that if anything, you're *way* too forward. Move the seat back about an inch, raise it a skosh, get a set of compact bars with about an 8CM reach and I'd think you'll be in a close ball park. If anything, you look very cramped in that cockpit.

[efuentes]

We are twins !!!!, got any frame to trade !!!!

much taller headtube. I also manage to fit on a stock Roubaix with a 58 top tube, saddle pushed back, slight upjutting stem.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-un2FueOswS0/T2EQlPwpUqI/AAAAAAAAB4s/h8AewRGhmNI/s800/Eddie%2520Flayer%2520Design%2520Rev.JPG

[jonk]

FWIW, I'm also 6'2" with a 35" inseam and ride a 59cm Colorado II with 57.5cm TT and it fits me perfect. The Atlanta in 62cm had a 61cm TT and with it's 73 STA makes for a really long reach.

[Tin Turtle]

We are twins !!!!, got any frame to trade !!!!

Hope you didn't mean me - if so I feel sorry for you, my condolences LOL

[JLP]

Yeah,

Get thee to another bike shop where they can fit you.

The first picture made me think he bike was too big, for the saddle was way too low and forward, but then you raised the saddle in the pictures with you on the bike.

The second set of pictures with you on the bike make me think you are within spitting distance. Level the saddle. Rotate the bars and levers. Slightly shorter taller stem. Bob's your uncle.

But I'm just some guy on the internet. Find another bike shop, but don't give up yet.

[cmg]

is that saddle comfortable in the original photo? i myself couldn't stand something with that much padding. consider changing saddles. Is that a Curtlo drawing? kind of agree with to far forward comment. Do your knees hurt while riding? thighs get fatiqued early during a ride?

[tch]

...and get at least another opinion. We can't fit you over the internet, but from what I see, I and a bunch of folks don't buy your original fit suggestions.

Did you discuss what you want from a bike with your fittter? How you are going to ride? How long you ride? How much you ride? To get a really good starting fit (and I'm with the poster who suggested your fit may well change), you need to do a lot more than sit on a bike for a couple of minutes.

[Tin Turtle]

Yah, I explained to them exactly what I enjoy and want to do. Looking at it now I just don't think it clicked, because I explained I don't really race and like steel. I just don't think we had the same vision. But I happen to really like this LBS, their mechanic work on my mountain bike was first rate. And they didn't charge me for the fitting, so no complaints there.

Just as an aside they really didn't like my quill stem :) It seemed like they really prefered the modern components etc, which is totally fine, it is just not what drives me on the road bike. Mountain bike - different story.

I looked up Get A Grip Cycle and saw that a lot of the guys on their staff are Serotta riders. Their system makes sense to me, and while the price is certainly premium, my feeling is the fitting will be done well and I will be able to use that information in the future. I am scheduled for next Wednesday so I will post up the results and everyone will know if I am some weird mutant that needs an 8' tall unicycle.

[msl819]

Yah, I explained to them exactly what I enjoy and want to do. Looking at it now I just don't think it clicked, because I explained I don't really race and like steel. I just don't think we had the same vision. But I happen to really like this LBS, their mechanic work on my mountain bike was first rate. And they didn't charge me for the fitting, so no complaints there.

Just as an aside they really didn't like my quill stem :) It seemed like they really prefered the modern components etc, which is totally fine, it is just not what drives me on the road bike. Mountain bike - different story.

I looked up Get A Grip Cycle and saw that a lot of the guys on their staff are Serotta riders. Their system makes sense to me, and while the price is certainly premium, my feeling is the fitting will be done well and I will be able to use that information in the future. I am scheduled for next Wednesday so I will post up the results and everyone will know if I am some weird mutant that needs an 8' tall unicycle.

I look forward to hearing what you hear from Get-A-Grip. $325 is about what I would expect from a good fit session especially if they know what they are doing and are using specialized instrumentation to diagnose all their info. I agree with what all you have heard above. Looks to me like that Atlanta just needs some minor changes to get you comfortable.

[msl819]

And to your last picture I have read that a good starting point of reference is you want your bar to completely cover your front hub when you are in the position on the bars you most often ride. That may be terrible advice, but it looks to me that when you are on the top of your bar that is the view you have. All the other pics have you in the drops which is not where most recreational riders tend to spend most of their time. Not saying we should be in on the top 90 plus percent of the time just that we are. No doubt a different set of bars will shorten your reach in the drops. But that is all just my very amateur opinion.

[Tin Turtle]

Yes, the bar covers the hub, but it can sneak out below into view when I turn or shift position slightly.

[tuxbailey]

Yah, I explained to them exactly what I enjoy and want to do. Looking at it now I just don't think it clicked, because I explained I don't really race and like steel. I just don't think we had the same vision. But I happen to really like this LBS, their mechanic work on my mountain bike was first rate. And they didn't charge me for the fitting, so no complaints there.


You told them that you don't race yet they want to sell you a Tarmac? At least they should offer the Roubaix.

[msl819]

do you spend most of your time on the tops or in the drops?

[Tin Turtle]

I tend to shift to the tops over time, as my shoulder starts to hurt, and my neck. This used to be terrible, as in after about 5 miles. Now it does not bother me until about 20 miles. I did a 37 mile ride on Monday and it was a group ride, they stopped for lunch at 20 miles. It was slow, and I spent more time on the tops to pace myself, I did not get shoulder pain until that last 10 miles.

I like being in the drops, just because I feel like I have more control. The steering seems more intuitive to me. That does not mean I have a clue about how I should be riding. I have been trying to have a good posture. I had read that I need to support myself through my back and try not to use my arms to support my weight.

[Tin Turtle]

You told them that you don't race yet they want to sell you a Tarmac? At least they should offer the Roubaix.

Yeah, I figured that out after I spent some time online. So glad I did not just say yes.

[oliver1850]

I think 2.5" shorter is way too much, based on your pics. Your body position doesn't look that bad, but you are way forward in relation to the BB.

Nothing against Get A Grip, but Bob at Wheel Werks in Crystal Lake is a very experienced fitter, and great to work with. I believe quite a bit cheaper as well.

I have 58, 59, 60 and 61 bikes here if you want to test ride something. 2 hours away.

[Tin Turtle]

Thanks a lot, I appreciate the offer. I am going to enjoy some riding this week and not sweat this problem for a few days. I feel quite a bit better after all of the feedback from this thread.

[fuzzalow]

The Serotta you have posted in the 2nd group of pictures, with you astride the bike, is not too large a size. You don't need a shorter bike in the top tube, it is possibly too short as currently running with that stem.

Earlier poster suggested moving the saddle back, that is correct. When you can tilt your pelvis forwards, it will straighten out the arched curve in your back. Being straighter-backed will eat up toptube length, allowing your upper arms to fall more vertically from the shoulder sockets allowing bent elbows for forearms to reach the drops.

It looks more like this:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9ws020Wm2Ro/UBp-QcDbH8I/AAAAAAAAAGI/kh3uZ5TPshs/s460/Fabian-Cancellara.jpg
Not as extreme but the idea is the same. At a torso angle that is comfortable for you.

You got terrible advice from the LBS so anything they might say should be taken with a grain of salt.

[wallymann]

...checking out off-the-rack gazelles. dutch are generally TALL and RANGY people, and you will find LOTs of tall gazelle frames with short-ish top-tubes, much like what you're after.

fwiw...seeing you on the bike, i think the serotta would have worked fine...eventually, as your body continues to adapt. given how tall you are and how long your legs are, you should be on something >= 60cm frame size, more like 62 but that's just my opinion.

seriously, look at gazelle steel. lots of ~62cm frames with ~57cm top-tubes!!!

[lemondvictoire]

Title says it all, I bought a pristine Atlanta off of eBay a month ago and I have been riding it this last month. It is a great bike, and I was very happy with the ride. But I had chronic pain in me left lower shoulder so I went to have a fitting (yes.. after I bought the bike). I am 6'2" with a 35" inseam and the frame is a 62. I checked online and thought I had the right size, but it looks like I was wrong.

I love the steel frame. The look, the paint - everything is what I like. But the guy doing the fitting says the top tube is 2.5" too long. I thought about finding a 58cm frame, like a Legend maybe (not a big fan of aluminum) but the guys at the LBS really talked down the componentry on the Atlanta, basically saying its not worth the swap (older Ultegra). Makes sense, it is an older bike.

Carbon is ok, but it does not appeal to me the same way as a really beautiful lugged frame. For whatever reason I like that vintage look and feel. Ti would be my next choice. Not sure what to do, I dropped $1100 on this bike. I may go to a Motobecane Ti or carbon. I just bought a FLY Team 29er in Ti and it is a very nice ride. The guys at the LBS want to put me in a Tarmac, but at $2k with 105 components I just feel I can do better.

Anyway, thought I would whine and look for moral support LOL. Not much time left and I live out of the country in the winter so if I am going to do something I need to pull the trigger soon.

How about buying a new Motobecane Ti frame w/fork on Ebay for $1099 and swapping your parts over. You can probably sell that Serotta for $500 ormore.

[Hindmost]

(I can't believe that I am that random guy giving fitting advice over the internet.)

The general direction of the advice you are getting seems about right:

This frame can work; you have options with saddle and bar adjustment which should suit you. As you ride more your contact points are going to be a moving target. Months from now after you have more experience you might consider refinements in frame size.

Getting saddle height and setback is a key first step. Get a seatpost with setback, about 25mm, and move your saddle back as has been suggested.

That style of handlebar does not play well with a hand positions on the drops and on the levers (some people may like them). Initially I would rotate the bars so the flat of the drop is closer to horizonal and move the levers up the bar slightly. When riding you are going to have to experiment with hand positions on the tops, levers, and drops and find where you have comfort and control. As a bigger guy myself, I like wider bars--can't tell how wide yours are. For reasonable dollars a cooperative LBS can change out bars if you find something you like more.

Good luck.

[wallymann]

www.ebay.com/itm/EDDY-MERCKX-Corsa-Extra-Frameset-57-Panasonic-Columbus-SLX-/300775619911

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/EDDY-MERCKX-Corsa-Extra-Frameset-5td7-Panasonic-Columbus-SLX-/00/s/NjYwWDEwMDA=/$(KGrHqN,!ncF!KeyC!EzBQSWMqU8ew~~60_57.JPG

[pdmtong]

once a person embraces a sport, very few folks stick with their original equipment purchase. they evolve based on taste or fitness or both. cycling is no different.

when I first started riding on the road the premier fitter at a premier shop in SF blessed me on a 54TT with a 100 x +17d stem and about 3cm bar drop. that was what I "needed"

I am now riding a 56TT with a 110 x -10d stem and 7-8cm bar drop. All day.

I am feeling great about the current bar drop. sometimes I wonder if should go to a 120 stem. maybe.

This has me scratching my head. Did the fitter blow it? Have I just adapted and am more fit? combination of both? There are people her smarter than me who can postulate. My only point is that the atlanta maybe beautiful, but fit trumps everything and once "fitted", your position may well evolve in the coming months and years. you may well buy and sell a few frames on the journey.

when I am going the bike disappears beneath me. It feels like I am spinning in air and the only limit is my meager watts. I am not in pain just sore after 100/10,000. is that a good fit? I guess so, at least from a comfort standpoint. Perhaps the only thign left is fit to optimize watts...but that isnt my goal. my goal is to be able to climb, recover, climb, recover all day long and feel great when I get home. Its not like I can shave an hour off a 4 hour ride around here.

I donthave the chops to offer an opinion on your fit other than to say dont sweat that you may be find it to be an evolution. we have all been there.

One thing I can say though, is your saddle looks too far forward and the bars are rotated up too much. your braking leverage is poor with the hoods in that position and wrists canted outward. try rotating the bars down so the flat to hood transition is flatter.

[Tin Turtle]

...your position may well evolve in the coming months and years. you may well buy and sell a few frames on the journey....


You are as bad as the bartender at my favorite craft beer place :)

I did a quick 10 miles on the bike but did not change the saddle or bar position, I will probably try those changes over the weekend. What I did notice is that my earlier observation about the hub/bar view was not correct. When I am coasting the picture I showed at first is accurate. But when I am working it, or after a few miles, the picture below shows the relationship between the hub and bar.

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/fronthubview.jpg

Once I get the info on Wednesday I will know what I should do, plus I will have a baseline to work from for future buys. There is a lot of truth to things changing over time. My gut was so huge in the beginning I could not even bend over properly. Now it does not bother me, but it is certainly still there. I get down around <195 lbs and trim things up and I will have more flexibility too. Weird how you lose weight, but the middle seems to be the last thing to go.

Thanks for the postings on the frames. That Eddie in the classified ads that was posted earlier could give wood to the dead. Seriously. The eBay one is nice also. There is a part of me that looks at carbon fiber and is intrigued, but I live in China half the year. If I wanted a carbon fiber frame I have friends in Shenzen where most of that stuff is made, I could just ship one back to myself. At this point in time I just do not feel the pull to build a CF bike. I see a great steel frame, or the titanium, or even the ti/cf combos - and that is what I like. IMHO there is just no way cf can compare in beauty. The only thing that would sway me would be a Shimano di setup, but I am not going to lay out the cash for that.

[msl819]

You are as bad as the bartender at my favorite craft beer place :)

I did a quick 10 miles on the bike but did not change the saddle or bar position, I will probably try those changes over the weekend. What I did notice is that my earlier observation about the hub/bar view was not correct. When I am coasting the picture I showed at first is accurate. But when I am working it, or after a few miles, the picture below shows the relationship between the hub and bar.

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/fronthubview.jpg

Once I get the info on Wednesday I will know what I should do, plus I will have a baseline to work from for future buys. There is a lot of truth to things changing over time. My gut was so huge in the beginning I could not even bend over properly. Now it does not bother me, but it is certainly still there. I get down around <195 lbs and trim things up and I will have more flexibility too. Weird how you lose weight, but the middle seems to be the last thing to go.

Thanks for the postings on the frames. That Eddie in the classified ads that was posted earlier could give wood to the dead. Seriously. The eBay one is nice also. There is a part of me that looks at carbon fiber and is intrigued, but I live in China half the year. If I wanted a carbon fiber frame I have friends in Shenzen where most of that stuff is made, I could just ship one back to myself. At this point in time I just do not feel the pull to build a CF bike. I see a great steel frame, or the titanium, or even the ti/cf combos - and that is what I like. IMHO there is just no way cf can compare in beauty. The only thing that would sway me would be a Shimano di setup, but I am not going to lay out the cash for that.

#1 - I have always heard weight tends to drop in the reverse order it is taken off. First in the mid-section for most last off in the mid section. That is why most people will gain weight in their face and neck last and lose it there first. The mid-section will come.

I for one, and it sounds like many here are, am routing for the Atlanta to be able to fit you comfortably but fit and comfort are huge factors.

[Andrewlcox]

There is a Serotta fitter fairly close, it is $200. From what I have read Get A Grip Cycles is one of the best in the area, but they want $325.

There is also a Tri shop with a Guru DFU that is very accurate. I am considering giving the Guru DFU a try either in Chicago or St. Louis.

[Louis]

I am considering giving the Guru DFU a try either in Chicago or St. Louis.

Random comment: The Swim Bike Run in St Louis (the St Louis LBS with the Guru DFU) isn't far from my neck of the woods. Dan Schook, the guy shown in the video, did the 5 minute "eye-ball ballpark fit with the bike on a trainer" I'm currently using on my daily driver. It helped me a lot, and got rid of much of the knee pain that led me to go to him (when he had his own LBS). He's a good guy.

[Andrewlcox]

Random comment: The Swim Bike Run in St Louis (the St Louis LBS with the Guru DFU) isn't far from my neck of the woods. Dan Schook, the guy shown in the video, did the 5 minute "eye-ball ballpark fit with the bike on a trainer" I'm currently using on my daily driver. It helped me a lot, and got rid of much of the knee pain that led me to go to him (when he had his own LBS). He's a good guy.

That's why I want to get fit on the Guru DFU for my inbound Terraplane. Don't want to mess up the build measurements because I was too cheap to travel and spend some money for an accurate fit.

Thanks for the name so I can contact him and get in there for a fit.

Andy

[FootWorksCycles]

Turtle man,

I don't bite much on fit advice in the forum as information is usually lacking. However, you did a fair job with the pictures so I will chime in.

Please get a fit done by some one who is experienced. Most LBS will do fits b/c it is usually easy to get a generic healthy person in a generic position that will work. It is therefore easy money.

However, when someone brings some more difficult scenarios to the table the inexperienced fitter will get flustered and try to sell you a new bike.

So let's talk about what you brought that was outside an inexperienced fitters comfort zone -

1. Neck pain - It's easy to fit someone who does not hurt
2. An OLD bike
3. Antiquated Stem and Bars - difficult to remove and adjust.

In my experience (and I have A LOT), it appears that you may be too compact. I disagree with the LBS fitter that you need a shorter bike. I think you need to get a bit more stretched out. I would recommend -

1. LOWERING the stem. Try 1cm at a time. This will get you a 5mm longer and you might be surprised that lower will relieve your neck.

2. Rotate your bars to a safe position - right now they are rotated UP and are unsafe. Your hands can easily slide off the back when you are in the drops.

3. Unwrap the bars and move the Shifters to a comfortable position after you have rotated the bars down.

4. My ultimate fix would be to rebuild the cockpit with a modern ergonomic handle bar and modern stem. Buy yourself a conversion quill and go from there. The purists may scoff at that idea, but there is a reason that bike parts have evolved over the past 15 years to fit better. And as we age (we are close in age) we need to care for ourselves better and ergonomic parts can be life savers.

Good luck with the bike. I would NOT scrap it, you are close. You just need to find someone willing to take the time to work with that front end.

Neal

[pdmtong]

You are as bad as the bartender at my favorite craft beer place :)

just remember opinions are like asses, everyone has one.

have you been to this roast duck place in one of the old parts of beijing....oh man oh man that place is awesome.

and, for the record, the 2-3" scorpions in the night market taste way better than the 4-5" ones...

[Tin Turtle]

Don't know that place. There are lots of hutongs, I don't spend much time eating in those places unless I've been drinking and don't care about the penalty I will pay later. I've come to appreciate food safety. But for duck in Beijing I like 1949, they do it nice, and the decor/service is excellent. Thats the other problem, 98% of the time the service is so poor at places you want to throw something.

Thought about shipping a Surly Ogre over there and doing some riding cross/country. It is so freaking dangerous on the roads in Beijing (plus I am there in the winter mostly) I have a hard time enjoying that idea.

Best thing I can say about China is it makes you really REALLY appreciate home. Been living there since 09.

[elliott]

What shop said the top tube was 2.5" too long?

[EFHeath]

just remember opinions are like asses, everyone has one.

have you been to this roast duck place in one of the old parts of beijing....oh man oh man that place is awesome.

and, for the record, the 2-3" scorpions in the night market taste way better than the 4-5" ones...

Li Qun is great. No worries about food safety there. I've been three times, and plan to continue going there every time I'm in Beijing, until they knock it down.

[pdmtong]

Li Qun is great. No worries about food safety there. I've been three times, and plan to continue going there every time I'm in Beijing, until they knock it down.

last time we were there ordered five ducks for four adults two kids.

clean plate club.

gluttony defined.

[Tin Turtle]

Cool, enjoy. Next time you are in Beijing send me a message.

[nahtnoj]

Do this:

Spend no time trying to get your bike fit over the internet. None.

Instead:

Ride. Stretch. Repeat.

You'll fit just fine if you lose some weight and get a little more flexible. Right now you are bending you back to get the drops when you should be rolling your hips forward.

If anything, you need to move your saddle back.

[tuxbailey]

last time we were there ordered five ducks for four adults two kids.

clean plate club.

gluttony defined.

So you are saying that the ducks there are better than the few "well known" places...?

[pdmtong]

So you are saying that the ducks there are better than the few "well known" places...?

I am saying this place has an awesome roast duck. period. I will stick my neck out and say if you dont like it there is something wrong with you, not the duck

[rustychisel]

I will stick my neck out and say if you dont like it there is something wrong with you, not the duck

Haha,, but your neck is safe, unlike the duck's. No-one is going to serve you up on a platter. :(


Agree with much of what has been written here, that bike is close to good for you and could be made so with a bit more work (on your part and also on the bike).

I see a man of limited flexibility trying to assume 'the position' and I tend to question the wisdom of posting pictures of Fabian Cancellara so you can see what you 'should look like'. In our dreams, eh?

That said, the bars rotation and lever position could use some work, as does having the saddle too far forward. Make small incremental changes and assess as you get stronger and fitter and more used to riding.

[Elefantino]

Don´t give up on the Atlanta yet.

A fit would be a great idea.

If it still doesn´t work, I´ll bet the guy who sold it to you would buy it back. :D

[Fixed]

Just to clarify - It is 2.5 inches, they told me the only way to fix it would be if the handlebars were sitting directly over the steering tube.

Here are some additional pictures I just took. Last one shows the view I see (approximately) over the handlebars.

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_standover.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_riding1.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_riding2.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_riding3.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_cockpit.jpg

Thanks again for all the replies and thought regarding my problem. It's great to have a resource like this.

Oh, and the green post is not straight :)
Bike looks fine I would lower the saddle and level out the drops but that is me
Oh yeah, I would put 25 tires on too
Cheers enjoy it looks like a great bike IMHO :)

[fuzzalow]

I see a man of limited flexibility trying to assume 'the position' and I tend to question the wisdom of posting pictures of Fabian Cancellara so you can see what you 'should look like'. In our dreams, eh?

That picture was posted as illustrative of what body angles can be found in a good position in support of my assertion that the OP's toptube was not incorrectly sized as being too long.

You can question my wisdom anytime you like - my shrink does far worse than that so I'm used to it.

Whatsamatta?! Can't ride pro like Cancellara?

[rustychisel]

Whatsamatta?! Can't ride pro like Cancellara?


As I said, in my dreams... :banana:

[Mr Cabletwitch]

I'm going to hazard a guess here, base solely on the pics that you provided, that if anything, you're *way* too forward. Move the seat back about an inch, raise it a skosh, get a set of compact bars with about an 8CM reach and I'd think you'll be in a close ball park. If anything, you look very cramped in that cockpit.


What he said. Try the Soma Highway1 bar they offer it in a 26.0 size so you can still use a quill stem and if you need more height go with a Nitto Technomic quill stem you can get a ton of rise out of that.

Your current bar is rotated up which makes riding on the hoods nicer but makes the drops to far of a reach.

[Tin Turtle]

Thanks all. I have rotated the bars in but I have not had a chance to ride more than around the block. I also shifted the seat back.

Wednesday I well get the fitting done (http://getagripcycles.com/component/easyfaq/?task=view&id=2) and I'll post back what they find.

[Tin Turtle]

Back from my fitting. The Atlanta will work fine for me is the short answer.

Alex over at Get A Grip in Chicago really had the expertise and knew how to explain what was going on, and the reason behind the various changes. This is just my opinion, and I am only a novice, but I do not personally see how it is possible to do a fitting without an adjustable bike. Maybe after you have had an in-depth fitting, and you are pretty closely dialed in already - but for the initial setup there are just too many variables.

For the curious here are a couple of figures:


Seat Tube Length: 62
Top Tube Length: 60.3
Seat Tube Angle: 73.5
Head Tube Angle: 73
Saddle Top to BB: 83.3
Saddle to Stem Drop: 5
Saddle Tip to Center BB: -9.3


I have a couple of funky issues. My feet are tilted to the outside, he compensated for that with some inserts in my shoes and some wedge cleats. Made a big difference in how comfortable I felt clipped in. My posture is also poor. I have this weird hunched back from too many years at the desk, so I have to work on that. I have to work on keeping my feet flat throughout the stroke. Little things that are fun to know. It is a hobby, so if I want to do it right than there are things to work on. It fits into my overall fitness goals as well, and gives me something to think about and work on over the winter. I'll be more likely to do some yoga etc. Flexibilty and old people - ya know? :p

I already had a Technomic stem (in good condition) and he was able to get within a couple of mm of my ideal position. As I get better flexibility and posture I will probably be able to lower that. The handlebars and levers were poorly positioned. We used a compact on the fit bike, but in the end the decision was to just change things around on my bars and use what I had to see how I felt. The only parts we put on the bike were a new chain because mine was in pretty bad shape, and new brake pads.

I did a quick 3 miles when I got home, but I had a MTB night ride I wanted to do so I did not get a chance to really play with it. I'll try to get some more pics tomorrow. Now that I know the bike will work for me (and for a long time) I want to cough up some cash for a Brooks B17 in dark green, and their dark green tool bag. I'll try to follow his instructions for how to match up the new sadde to the measurements and we should be rockin. I will post some pics when I get a chance.

Thanks guys. I was very lucky to have posted here and received the responses that guided me in the right direction. Scares me as to how close I came to buying a 58cm bike from that salesman.

[msl819]

Back from my fitting. The Atlanta will work fine for me is the short answer.

Alex over at Get A Grip in Chicago really had the expertise and knew how to explain what was going on, and the reason behind the various changes. This is just my opinion, and I am only a novice, but I do not personally see how it is possible to do a fitting without an adjustable bike. Maybe after you have had an in-depth fitting, and you are pretty closely dialed in already - but for the initial setup there are just too many variables.

For the curious here are a couple of figures:


Seat Tube Length: 62
Top Tube Length: 60.3
Seat Tube Angle: 73.5
Head Tube Angle: 73
Saddle Top to BB: 83.3
Saddle to Stem Drop: 5
Saddle Tip to Center BB: -9.3


I have a couple of funky issues. My feet are tilted to the outside, he compensated for that with some inserts in my shoes and some wedge cleats. Made a big difference in how comfortable I felt clipped in. My posture is also poor. I have this weird hunched back from too many years at the desk, so I have to work on that. I have to work on keeping my feet flat throughout the stroke. Little things that are fun to know. It is a hobby, so if I want to do it right than there are things to work on. It fits into my overall fitness goals as well, and gives me something to think about and work on over the winter. I'll be more likely to do some yoga etc. Flexibilty and old people - ya know? :p

I already had a Technomic stem (in good condition) and he was able to get within a couple of mm of my ideal position. As I get better flexibility and posture I will probably be able to lower that. The handlebars and levers were poorly positioned. We used a compact on the fit bike, but in the end the decision was to just change things around on my bars and use what I had to see how I felt. The only parts we put on the bike were a new chain because mine was in pretty bad shape, and new brake pads.

I did a quick 3 miles when I got home, but I had a MTB night ride I wanted to do so I did not get a chance to really play with it. I'll try to get some more pics tomorrow. Now that I know the bike will work for me (and for a long time) I want to cough up some cash for a Brooks B17 in dark green, and their dark green tool bag. I'll try to follow his instructions for how to match up the new sadde to the measurements and we should be rockin. I will post some pics when I get a chance.

Thanks guys. I was very lucky to have posted here and received the responses that guided me in the right direction. Scares me as to how close I came to buying a 58cm bike from that salesman.

I thought about this thread this morning and wondered what you would hear from the fitter. Really, really glad you will be able to fit the Serotta. No doubt as you make the full transition and your fitness goals become realities this bike will be one that puts a smile on your face mile after mile. I look forward to seeing the pics of before and after.

Now that you posted here about your fit issues hang around and get to know the crowd. There is a ton of great info here.

[pdmtong]

keep positive and remember its an evolution based on your starting point.

have fun along the way and go get some roast duck

[reggiebaseball]

Shaving your head for aerodynamics is an extreme measure for one so new to the game, bravo!

[Adam]

Jeff and I indeed had a productive fit session. The Atlanta bike in the 62 cm. is in great condition and is a beautiful frame. We really worked on the concept of transferring the "sports ready" or set position onto the bike. We see a lot of clients that do not know how to properly rotate their hips and reach for the bars with a more or less neutral spine. This is a concept that is not necessary intuitive and takes some time to get. I like using the Dartfish motion capture to help clients see the new position as well as feel it so the main concepts are driven home.

We discussed some stretches and postures that can help over time as his fitness goals are achieved and following up and modifying as things change.

The long quill stem was a blessing as we were able to get the bars very close to the size cycle numbers taking into account that the older style bars have a drop down to the hoods and have a deeper drop over all. We decided to utilize the original equipment as it came close and Jeff will most likely change his preferences quickly as he adapts and changes over time.

Overall we have a great place to begin and I look forward to helping him enjoy his time on the bike.

[jr59]

Jeff and I indeed had a productive fit session. The Atlanta bike in the 62 cm. is in great condition and is a beautiful frame. We really worked on the concept of transferring the "sports ready" or set position onto the bike. We see a lot of clients that do not know how to properly rotate their hips and reach for the bars with a more or less neutral spine. This is a concept that is not necessary intuitive and takes some time to get. I like using the Dartfish motion capture to help clients see the new position as well as feel it so the main concepts are driven home.

We discussed some stretches and postures that can help over time as his fitness goals are achieved and following up and modifying as things change.

The long quill stem was a blessing as we were able to get the bars very close to the size cycle numbers taking into account that the older style bars have a drop down to the hoods and have a deeper drop over all. We decided to utilize the original equipment as it came close and Jeff will most likely change his preferences quickly as he adapts and changes over time.

Overall we have a great place to begin and I look forward to helping him enjoy his time on the bike.

Well done Sir. Well done indeed! :hello:

[tuxbailey]

excellent.

[Keith A]

Great news! I'm glad your Atlanta will work for you.

[559Rando]

Great thread. That's a beautiful bike. All you'll ever "need" I'd even say. I hope you enjoy. And this is a great example of how opinions can vary, even among the "pros"

[Mr Cabletwitch]

Looking forward to a pic o the newly positioned bike.

[Ken Robb]

So did Alex do the fit or our old pal Adam?

[Rudy]

Read this evolving post with bitten tongue. Fantastic you got expert consultation and that your wicked-cool bike will faithfully serve a long time.

I'd also like to commend the forum for its attention to TT's post. It welcomed in a good, determined cyclist the way all of us would hope to be greeted!

[Elefantino]

I'm really happy it worked out, Jeff.

Enjoy it for many, many miles!

[Tin Turtle]

Here are the updated photos. I will post a pic of the bike by itself in the Serotta gallery with the serial number once I have the new saddle installed. Did 10 miles on it today for the first time since the changes (been mountain biking this week). It is almost a completely different experience. The pedal movement seems much smoother, best way to describe it is like a continuous circular motion, now I am truly pulling up on the backside of the stroke when I am really laying into it. Still lots of work to do on posture but I enjoy it.

Original pictures taken before the fitting on page 2 of this thread.


http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_standover2.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_riding4.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_riding5.jpg

http://www.tinturtle.com/images/gallery2/serotta_riding6.jpg

[Mr Cabletwitch]

Bike looks very proper now. Enjoy it.

[Nelson99]

Working on your hips and back will do a lot for your reach.

I have a lot of the same issues you do concerning fit and I have found a few tricks that help me ride longer, lower, and flatter. The first of course is core strength, stability, and flexibility.

The second is getting more reach out of your torso and back, and less out of your arms. We are used to reaching for distant objects with our arms, and in your pics, it looks like you are reaching out to grab the bars.

But, you probably have at least 2 inches of extension in your hips and back that you are not currently using. Some of that won't ever come back (until we find a fountain of youth), but some will.

Core stability will help, moving your saddle back will help and will also help with your pedal stroke (as you noticed). Personally, I have a hard time getting my Brooks far enough back on frames with a 73* ST. You might want to watch out for that when buying a Brooks. See if you can borrow one and make sure you can get it where you need it.

Finally, two things I have found useful to practice just before, or at the beginning of a ride, include situps, pushups, and kissing the bars. The pushups and situps wake-up your core muscles so they are better prepared to participate in the fun ahead. Doing a few of each (especially situps) before I get on the bike really helps me settle into better form early in my ride.

Kissing the bars is something I do a couple of times very early in the ride to help remind my body of where the bike is under me, and how far my torso can really reach forward. Using you hands for support, try to kiss the bar/stem junction while riding. Of course this will have your torso far longer and lower than any position you will use for riding, but instead of constantly trying to force yourself down and out, your body will spring up and back a bit from this position toward your optimal riding position. It will also help balance your weight over your bike early in the ride.

For your back, I have found a simple foam roller to work wonders. It is a long hard road to get mobility back into the upper spine, but you will find exercises for it on the web. The most effective and easiest of these (for me) have been using a foam roller to mobilize my thoracic vertebrae, and help isolate regions of my spine so I can work on getting rotational movement from each segment. I went from not being able to look over my shoulder, to be able to do so easily and comfortably with a few weeks of foam roller work. Feels great!

Good luck.

[Fixed]

Bike looks very proper now. Enjoy it.

+1
Enjoy cheers :)