Landis is furious!

[G-Reg]

Word on the street is that Landis will be releasing a statement expressing how disappointed he is in the outcome of the USADA case against Armstrong. Landis is of the opinion that the USADA and team Lance reached a secret deal that lead to Lance not fighting the charges. He asserts that not only is Lance's opting out, cheaper for both parties, but the deal will ultimately allow the USADA to keep the names of the other witnesses confidential. Thus, not imposing any kind of sanctions on the cooperating parties. In return, the USADA has conceded to keep a few other key pieces of evidence from being released that Armstrong was specifically concerned about. Floyd had very specifically wanted other American cyclist to be outed in hopes of restoring some level of credibility himself.

[martinrjensen]

You must be kidding.

[texbike]

Floyd had very specifically wanted other American cyclist to be outed in hopes of restoring some level of credibility himself.

Hmmmm. Floyd AND Credibility used in the same sentence. Now THAT's funny!!! Keep walking Floyd. Nothing to see here. What an A**hat this Landis guy is!

Texbike

[jonsamg]

Word on the street is that Landis will be releasing a statement expressing how disappointed he is in the outcome of the USADA case against Armstrong. Landis is of the opinion that the USADA and team Lance reached a secret deal that lead to Lance not fighting the charges. He asserts that not only is Lance's opting out, cheaper for both parties, but the deal will ultimately allow the USADA to keep the names of the other witnesses confidential. Thus, not imposing any kind of sanctions on the cooperating parties. In return, the USADA has conceded to keep a few other key pieces of evidence from being released that Armstrong was specifically concerned about. Floyd had very specifically wanted other American cyclist to be outed in hopes of restoring some level of credibility himself.

F' Floyd. When he returns the money I donated to his "bull***** fund" then, maybe, I will even want to hear what he has to say.

[93legendti]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/news/lance-armstrong-releases-emails-between-floyd-landis-and-the-tour-of-california_117763

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/18705368/

LEMOND ACCUSES LANDIS CAMP OF BLACKMAIL
Ex-Tour de France champ says effort was to stop him from testifying

Ah, Landis...he should marry Emma O'Reilly

[elcolombiano]

I want my dollar back that I lost when I bought his book at the 99 cent store.

[Louis]

No honor among dopers. What a filthy business - I wouldn't trust any of them.

[rustychisel]

No honor among dopers. What a filthy business - I wouldn't trust any of them.

Fancy that. Mistrust fosters mistrust, and it breeds just like a cancer.

[slidey]

You want a dollar back after you just paid 99 cents?? Tsk, tsk! ;)

I want my dollar back that I lost when I bought his book at the 99 cent store.

[ljklassen]

Hmmmm. Floyd AND Credibility used in the same sentence. Now THAT's funny!!! Keep walking Floyd. Nothing to see here. What an A**hat this Landis guy is!

Texbike

Just when I thought my opinion of landis couldn't get any lower...

[biker72]

hmmmm. floyd and credibility used in the same sentence. Now that's funny!!! Keep walking floyd. Nothing to see here. What an a**hat this landis guy is!

Texbike

+100

[echelon_john]

I'll take Floyd's credibility over Lance's.

Let's revisit in 45 days once more of the story has emerged. And it will emerge.

[csm]

so a known cheat is upset that someone who passed every control test stopped fighting accusations brought against him primarily based on accusations and testimony from other known cheats?
who cares?

[pmac]

I think the OP needs to include a satire alert warning in the title.

[Mr. Squirrel]

http://26.2ismycooldown.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Tyler_4.jpg

http://leitesculinaria.com/wp-content/uploads/diamond-mixed-nuts.jpg

http://www.thisishorror.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cabal-razas-de-noche1.jpg

nuk nuk nuk!

mr. squirrel

[Rueda Tropical]

so a known cheat is upset that someone who passed every control test stopped fighting accusations brought against him primarily based on accusations and testimony from other known cheats?
who cares?

He didn't pass every test. It will all come out soon enough. The USADA reportedly has positives as well as testimony.

I love the known cheats bit. So Hincapie, Levi and company are now "known cheats" so anything they say is a lie. Let me get this straight -If you want to have any credibility you have to keep lying? So while Landis and Hamilton were pretending to be clean and doing the the same routine that Lance is now doing there were good guys. Now that everyone on Lance's team has come clean they are all liars except Lance.

That's some pretty twisted logic.

[goonster]

Landis is of the opinion that the USADA and team Lance reached a secret deal that lead to Lance not fighting the charges. He asserts that not only is Lance's opting out, cheaper for both parties, but the deal will ultimately allow the USADA to keep the names of the other witnesses confidential. Thus, not imposing any kind of sanctions on the cooperating parties. In return, the USADA has conceded to keep a few other key pieces of evidence from being released that Armstrong was specifically concerned about.
Regardless of Floyd's stake in all this, the above is actually a reasonable scenario, sort of. I don't really see how they can sweep the confessions of multiple corroborating witnesses under the carpet completely. Surely we'll see some sort of reduced sanctions against them soon, maybe after the current road season is over.

[Mr Cabletwitch]

I can understand why Landis is pissed in general but at some point you just have to give it up.

He watched Lance cheat for years and then went on to do the exact same thing but got caught. If I was him I would want to see Lance burn too.

[ljklassen]

I'll take Floyd's credibility over Lance's.

Let's revisit in 45 days once more of the story has emerged. And it will emerge.

It may well emerge, and I honestly have no idea how it will turn out (but I also don't have my head in the sand).

However, taking the word of someone that has shown how far he can go with lying (to the point of duping thousands into giving him money to prove he was innocent, all part of that same web of lies) over someone who has not been proven (at this point) to have lied is just believing what one wants to believe regardless of the evidence to date.

In other words, there is clearly some bias here.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . for the actual statement before piling on Floyd. "Word on the street" sounds kinda vague to this 30 year news journalist.

BBD

[echelon_john]

I would assert that it will emerge shortly how far Lance was willing to go with lying, to the point of duping hundreds of thousands of people into giving him money.

I'm the last person to deny that the non-profit side of Lance's foundation has done (and continues to do) an awful lot of good for folks. But when you look closely at the finances of the .com and .org sites, combined with the speaking opportunities, endorsements, etc. that go directly to the 'for-profit' (i.e. Lance's bank account) it becomes pretty clear that the Foundation does as much for Lance as Lance does for the Foundation. And that's all built on his prior assertions of innocence, which he has now abdicated.

I think it was Rueda who cut to the core of the matter and posed the question very astutely: Would these guys be more believable if they were still lying?



taking the word of someone that has shown how far he can go with lying (to the point of duping thousands into giving him money to prove he was innocent, all part of that same web of lies) over someone who has not been proven (at this point) to have lied is just believing what one wants to believe regardless of the evidence to date.

In other words, there is clearly some bias here.

[Tony T]

I want my dollar back that I lost when I bought his book at the 99 cent store.

Was it (http://www.amazon.com/Positively-False-Real-Story-France/dp/B0013A05VU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346853259&sr=8-1&keywords=floyd+landis) in the fiction section?

[weiwentg]

I remember when Landis' allegations first came out, Bruyneel dismissed him as an angry man.

Bruyneel had a point.

[572cv]

Persistent prevarication precludes personal plausibility.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I wonder why Floyd would be angry? :rolleyes:

BBD

[mistermo]

I wonder why Floyd would be angry? :rolleyes:

BBD

It's well understood Floyd was a liar and cheat. I saw every reason to doubt his innocence when caught. The question is whether he reformed. And as Rueda so logically put it, how can one ever come clean, once they've been dirty? Today, I see no reason to doubt his detailed accounts.

Why would Floyd be angry? I would be angry if I stuck my neck out, was promised that my testimony will break that Omerta, then 'nothing' happens.

Just like promises given to Jorg (Telekom). Except Jorg has moved on. Cycling's hypocrisy:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/jorg-jaksche-doping-hypocrisy-and-a-dog-called-bella

[Tony T]

Why would Floyd be angry? I would be angry if I stuck my neck out, was promised that my testimony will break that Omerta, then 'nothing' happens.

Landis was promised that? (and I thought that he was only promised that he wouldn't have to go to jail)

[Charles M]

nah, Floyd is pissed that there was no whistle blower pay day.

[Tony T]

nah, floyd is pissed that there was no whistle blower pay day.

+1

[mistermo]

No matter, the press and peloton and UCI are not kind to those who blow the whistle on "the system" and others.

This says it all (from Jorg Jaksche):

"“I spoke out too much. That was the main problem,” Jaksche tells Cyclingnews six years after Puerto rocked the Tour.

“There were riders in the same situation as me and officially they never spoke out but to avoid legal problems in the future they spoke to the police and confessed everything to them but they didn’t talk to the UCI. The pressure from the police was a lot higher. Then these riders went out and said they’d never talked. I didn’t want to have that on my conscience and of course I knew that if I went out and said here’s my story and that this is the system, I knew that there was a big chance of never getting back into cycling again.”

Sure enough, everywhere he turned, Jaksche found each door slammed in his face, with team after team, rider after rider, unwilling to help him. HTC and Slipstream were among the teams he tried to approach but for whatever reason, whether it was his doping past, his confession or his talent, they chose to ignore him.

“I could have done it the easy way. I could have done it the Ivan Basso way and said I’d paid this guy and dropped off some blood but I never had a transfusion. Then I’d be punished but I would have been back. I could have done that but I didn’t want to lie anymore.”

[DRZRM]

But when you look closely at the finances of the .com and .org sites, combined with the speaking opportunities, endorsements, etc. that go directly to the 'for-profit' (i.e. Lance's bank account) it becomes pretty clear that the Foundation does as much for Lance as Lance does for the Foundation. And that's all built on his prior assertions of innocence, which he has now abdicated.

Lance's bank account benefitted from a mixture of being a cancer survivor and winning the Tour de France...I don't think that is the same thing as it all being built on his "prior assertions of innocence." Clearly that is the only defining factor for some people (here and elsewhere) but that is not the only thing relevant about this case. I mean I take your point John, but are people trying to pull salary and endorsement money back from other pro athlete dopers?

I feel like everything in these discussions has broken down to an argument between "suckers" who believe that Lance never doped and "haters" who blame him for all the evils in pro cycling. There is actually a wide middle ground between these two arguments. His fame and wealth are due to a lot more than him winning an argument about having never doped. I'd have liked to see him allowed to participate in the Ironman regardless of what he was doing when he was involved in the clearly corrupt and tainted sport of cycling in the decades of the 1990s and 2000s...no matter what eventually comes out in the wash.

[echelon_john]

Very valid points. There was the matter of the SCA lawsuit in which they didn't want to pay a bonus based on evidence of doping. I would think that kind of proviso would exist across other sports; essentially referring to winning under false pretenses as 'ill-gotten gains' that wouldn't be subject to prior financial incentive packages.

I completely agree that there's very little that could be done that would change most interested folks' opinion of him at this point.

But sometimes the lure of these threads sucks me in despite my knowing better! ; )



Lance's bank account benefitted from a mixture of being a cancer survivor and winning the Tour de France...I don't think that is the same thing as it all being built on his "prior assertions of innocence." Clearly that is the only defining factor for some people (here and elsewhere) but that is not the only thing relevant about this case. I mean I take your point John, but are people trying to pull salary and endorsement money back from other pro athlete dopers?

I feel like everything in these discussions has broken down to an argument between "suckers" who believe that Lance never doped and "haters" who blame him for all the evils in pro cycling. There is actually a wide middle ground between these two arguments. His fame and wealth are due to a lot more than him winning an argument about having never doped. I'd have liked to see him allowed to participate in the Ironman regardless of what he was doing when he was involved in the clearly corrupt and tainted sport of cycling in the decades of the 1990s and 2000s...no matter what eventually comes out in the wash.

[DRZRM]

But sometimes the lure of these threads sucks me in despite my knowing better! ; )

Yeah, tell me about it! :p

[csm]

He didn't pass every test. It will all come out soon enough. The USADA reportedly has positives as well as testimony.

I love the known cheats bit. So Hincapie, Levi and company are now "known cheats" so anything they say is a lie. Let me get this straight -If you want to have any credibility you have to keep lying? So while Landis and Hamilton were pretending to be clean and doing the the same routine that Lance is now doing there were good guys. Now that everyone on Lance's team has come clean they are all liars except Lance.

That's some pretty twisted logic.

not really what I meant. but yes, they are all cheats. Including Lance.
Landis admits he lied before but THIS time we should believe him. Same with Hamilton.

[LJohnny]

I think that pic is legendary, OUCH :)

[Elefantino]

It's all going to come out, eventually. Probably not in time for some and too soon for others.

In the meantime it's just educated or not-very-educated guesswork. Makes for fun threads, though. It is interesting to watch (or read) the passionate extent to which some folks go to show their certainty about one side or the other.

Some of you should read or re-read Justin Spinelli's Q&A on doping from a number of years back and decide for yourself whether there's still bloom on the rose.

[OtayBW]

he didn't pass every test. It will all come out soon enough. The usada reportedly has positives as well as testimony.

I love the known cheats bit. So hincapie, levi and company are now "known cheats" so anything they say is a lie. Let me get this straight -if you want to have any credibility you have to keep lying? So while landis and hamilton were pretending to be clean and doing the the same routine that lance is now doing there were good guys. Now that everyone on lance's team has come clean they are all liars except lance.

That's some pretty twisted logic.+1

nah, floyd is pissed that there was no whistle blower pay day.+2

[CunegoFan]

nah, Floyd is pissed that there was no whistle blower pay day.

Nope. The qui tam suit is still going, and a reliable source says that the DOJ has joined it. Landis has been complaining about being forced to answer to Armstrong's attorneys.

[54ny77]

If I mix Miracle Gro in my water bottle will I go faster?

Just think, no doctors needed, just a trip to the local Home Depot. Awesome!

http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/bffd2ff7-3ed5-4406-b49d-477198b81af5_4.jpg



Some of you should read or re-read Justin Spinelli's Q&A on doping from a number of years back and decide for yourself whether there's still bloom on the rose.

[CunegoFan]

I'd have liked to see him allowed to participate in the Ironman regardless of what he was doing when he was involved in the clearly corrupt and tainted sport of cycling in the decades of the 1990s and 2000s...no matter what eventually comes out in the wash.

Armstrong has doped his entire adult life. Do you think he would stop for Ironman, which has almost no testing? Armstrong will always look for a way to cheat or bend the rules in his favor. It is his nature. At the Leadville 100, he got the RD to let a few of his friends in so they could pace him in the early part of the race. The guy cannot help himself.

On Slowtwitch there is currently a thread about testing of professional triathletes. Several pros have weighed in. The stories are all similar, like "I've been racing pro for three years, and I've been tested twice."

[DRZRM]

Some of you should read or re-read Justin Spinelli's Q&A on doping from a number of years back and decide for yourself whether there's still bloom on the rose.

Got a link for that?

[jimcav]

Nope. The qui tam suit is still going, and a reliable source says that the DOJ has joined it. Landis has been complaining about being forced to answer to Armstrong's attorneys.

is there anywhere to read details on where that suit is? I thought it died with the fraud case dying? I thought it (the whistle blower case) was tied to proving fraud (regarding the use of US gov't funds) and the DOJ gave up?

thanks
jim

[jimcav]

Got a link for that?

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/doping-forum/justin-spinelli-doping-13627.html

[jeduardo]

Yeah TRY now there is a clean sport!:rolleyes:
This is not their 1st rodeo. Pro & the wanna-be majority of Try-athletes are very familiar with Pharma giants such as Amgen (the first company to isolate and patent the human gene responsible for making EPO). To reiterate (past post comments): Nice tour sponsor you chose CA


Armstrong has doped his entire adult life. Do you think he would stop for Ironman, which has almost no testing? "I've been racing pro for three years, and I've been tested twice."

[G-Reg]

. . . for the actual statement before piling on Floyd. "Word on the street" sounds kinda vague to this 30 year news journalist.

BBD

I guess I should have invoked "several industry sources" to give me more credibility?


http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1197183&postcount=15

[dumbod]

I can understand Floyd being pissed.

Think about it from his perspective. Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis are the two biggest villains in American cycling and for what? Assuming that the scuttlebutt is true, Hamilton and Landis were only doing what everyone else on the Postal team were doing. The only thing that distinguishes them is that they were better riders than Hincaippe, Leipheimer et al and that they were unlucky enough to be caught. Yet George and Levi are quite prosperous and celebrated while Tyler and Floyd are poor and vilified.

I can understand why Landis would want the truth to be revealed. I don't condone it but I understand it. How would you feel if you were penalized for something while others, who were less talented than you, were rewarded for doing the same thing?

[PQJ]

I can understand Floyd being pissed.

Think about it from his perspective. Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis are the two biggest villains in American cycling and for what? Assuming that the scuttlebutt is true, Hamilton and Landis were only doing what everyone else on the Postal team were doing. The only thing that distinguishes them is that they were better riders than Hincaippe, Leipheimer et al and that they were unlucky enough to be caught. Yet George and Levi are quite prosperous and celebrated while Tyler and Floyd are poor and vilified.

I can understand why Landis would want the truth to be revealed. I don't condone it but I understand it. How would you feel if you were penalized for something while others, who were less talented than you, were rewarded for doing the same thing?

Exactly. Been thinking the same thing myself.

[Tony T]

I can understand Floyd being pissed.

Think about it from his perspective. Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis are the two biggest villains in American cycling and for what? Assuming that the scuttlebutt is true, Hamilton and Landis were only doing what everyone else on the Postal team were doing. The only thing that distinguishes them is that they were better riders than Hincaippe, Leipheimer et al and that they were unlucky enough to be caught. Yet George and Levi are quite prosperous and celebrated while Tyler and Floyd are poor and vilified.

I can understand why Landis would want the truth to be revealed. I don't condone it but I understand it. How would you feel if you were penalized for something while others, who were less talented than you, were rewarded for doing the same thing?

So, what you're saying is that Tyler and Floyd were fine with it until they got caught, so once caught, they feel justified in being a snitch. ("Teacher, Billy and Mary also cheated on the test, you should give them an "F" too. Only fair!)

So then, you think that they're still lying when they say that they did it to "clean up the sport"

[PQJ]

So, what you're saying is that Tyler and Floyd were fine with it until they got caught, so once caught, they feel justified in being a snitch. ("Teacher, Billy and Mary also cheated on the test, you should give them an "F" too. Only fair!)

That's a gross oversimplification but at this point there's nothing that's going to convince you otherwise.

[Tony T]

That's a gross oversimplification but at this point there's nothing that's going to convince you otherwise.

It's "Exactly" what you said you were thinking, so I don't see your point.

[Rueda Tropical]

So, what you're saying is that Tyler and Floyd were fine with it until they got caught, so once caught, they feel justified in being a snitch. ("Teacher, Billy and Mary also cheated on the test, you should give them an "F" too. Only fair!)

So then, you think that they're still lying when they say that they did it to "clean up the sport"

If I were an educator who was striving to deliver the best education possible I'd be very happy that the little rats squealed. If cheating became the norm in my class it would do serious damage to my ability to educate the little angels. So it all turned out for the greater good. So it depends whether you view it as the adult or the 12 year old.

So, I don't care if you want to think of Hamilton and Floyd as rats, low life's or heroes. They did the sport a huge favor. I don't care if it was for selfish, noble, altruistic or sleazy rotten reasons. It's opened the possibility of cleaning up the cesspool that is pro cycling by revealing the true extent of how corrupt it is.

[PQJ]

It's "Exactly" what you said you were thinking, so I don't see your point.

Huh?

[wc1934]

nah, Floyd is pissed that there was no whistle blower pay day.

If he is hurting for money, he can always try to blackmail Lemond again.

[CunegoFan]

Floyd had very specifically wanted other American cyclist to be outed in hopes of restoring some level of credibility himself.

I guess he feels a bit better today.

He'll feel even better when the Bottle breaks.

[Fixed]

He could always try to get a regular job like most of us
:eek:
Cheers IMHO

[tiger]

If I mix Miracle Gro in my water bottle will I go faster?

Just think, no doctors needed, just a trip to the local Home Depot. Awesome!

http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/bffd2ff7-3ed5-4406-b49d-477198b81af5_4.jpg

I leave the mold in mine hoping it helps performance...:)

[dumbod]

So, what you're saying is that Tyler and Floyd were fine with it until they got caught, so once caught, they feel justified in being a snitch. ("Teacher, Billy and Mary also cheated on the test, you should give them an "F" too. Only fair!)


So what you're saying is that being a dirty squealer is worse than committing the crime?

How's that prison gig working out for you?

[Tony T]

So what you're saying is that being a dirty squealer is worse than committing the crime?

So what you're saying is that doping in cycling is a crime?

[Mark McM]

So what you're saying is that doping in cycling is a crime?

It is in some countries, such as Italy. The rational is this: There is legal betting in sports (including cycling). Covert tampering with sporting outcomes contravenes the fairness of sports betting, and is illegal. Doping is a form of covert tampering with sporting outcomes. Therefore, doping in sports is illegal.

[Tony T]

Doping is a form of covert tampering with sporting outcomes. Therefore, doping in sports is illegal.


Please name one cyclist in any country thats in jail for doping in cycling.

[Mark McM]

Please name one cyclist in any country thats in jail for doping in cycling.

Only one? How about Raimondas Rumsas (served time in Italy 2006).

Austria also has very tough anti-doping laws, and a number of coaches, managers and athletes have also be sentenced to prison there.

[Vientomas]

Not all people who commit crimes are in jail. After all, Floyd is a criminal and he is not in jail.

[Grant McLean]

Please name one cyclist in any country thats in jail for doping in cycling.

David Millar was arrested by police, was put in a cell.
Police in France have the power to tap phones,
it's the cops who investigate because it is a crime
to dope in France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Millar#Doping

Millar was eating in a restaurant in Bidart, near Biarritz, on 23 June 2004 when he was approached by three plainclothes policemen of the Paris drug squad at 8.25pm. They took Millar's watch, shoelaces, jewellery, keys and phone.Millar said:
“ "I was shocked, but I didn't think they had anything on me. I thought it was a waste of time – just a publicity stunt. They took me back to the apartment. They went in with a gun first, as if somebody was going to hit them with a back wheel or something. They sat me down and I wasn't allowed to move while they searched the house.David Millar, 2004

After two and a half hours they found empty phials of Eprex, a brand of the blood-boosting drug EPO, and two used syringes.[12][n 4] Millar said he had been given them as a gift at the Tour of Spain, that he had taken them to Manchester and used them. After that he had kept them as a souvenir.[19] The detectives took Millar to the prison in Biarritz and put him alone in a cell.[19]
The raid followed the arrest at the start of 2004 of Cofidis' soigneur, Bogdan Madejak.[20] Police, looking to find out more about the drugs found on Madejak, turned their attention to another rider on the team, Philippe Gaumont, as he arrived at Orly airport in Paris on 20 January 2004.[13][20][n 5] On 22 January 2004 the magazine, Le Point, published transcripts of police phone taps.[20]

[93legendti]

Weak.

A brief time in a holding cell for investigation is not anywhere close to being incarcerated in a prison cell post sentence.

Millar was investigated in Nanterre in 2006 with nine other defendants, mostly from Cofidis. The court decided it was not clear he had taken drugs in France and that charges could not be pursued.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Millar#Early_career

One pushing a position does himself/herself a disservice if they can't admit a bad fact. It just makes them look like a paid operative.

[goonster]

A brief time in a holding cell for investigation is not anywhere close to being incarcerated in a prison cell post sentence.
That's not the point.

The point is that there are places in the developed world where sporting fraud is a crime investigated by actual prosecutors.

[Grant McLean]

Weak.

A brief time in a holding cell for investigation is not anywhere close to being incarcerated in a prison cell post sentence.

Isn't his point really about whether or not it's a criminal offence to dope?
Fact is, it has been a criminal offence to dope in France since 1965.

-g

[93legendti]

That's not the point.

The point is that there are places in the developed world where sporting fraud is a crime investigated by actual prosecutors.

Sorry, it is. Tony T asked the crowd to name one cyclist IN jail for doping. The response was Millar, in 2004, for a brief time, in a holding cell, without a charge and a judge then dropped all charges.

He was never sentenced and apparently, no one can name a cyclist who was sentenced for doping and served a prison sentence.

[jimcav]

Sorry, it is. Tony T asked the crowd to name one cyclist IN jail for doping. The response was Millar, in 2004, for a brief time, in a holding cell, without a charge and a judge then dropped all charges.

He was never sentenced and apparently, no one can name a cyclist who was sentenced for doping and served a prison sentence.


when you say no one named a cyclist? anyway, not sure what the point of arguing it is, lots of crimes have varied sentences, from actual jail, fines, probation, etc. I don't see the point in arguing details of the different outcomes in different judicial systems. USA doping is extra-judicial although the potential exists for criminal charges for actions related to doping, rather than the fact of doping itself. In other nations doping itself might be a crime.

people are arguing to argue it seems

[Grant McLean]

Please name one cyclist in any country thats in jail for doping in cycling.

I suppose another way of looking at it is that apparently nobody in italy
has ever doped, because under Italian law, taking or administering banned substances in sports is punishable by up to three years in jail.

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Italian_cyclist_Marco_Pantani_acquitted_in_doping_ case.htm

-g

[Rueda Tropical]

So what you're saying is that doping in cycling is a crime?

This has become a game of semantics and arguing about peripheral nonsense. Arguing about nothing in circles.

Motives, who's a hero, who's a schmuck, what day and hour did what guy blab and why. None of it matters.

What matters is -it's being revealed that doping is rampant in cycling and it's abuse is aided and abetted by the UCI, the team management and the culture of Omerta that has taken root among the athletes. Numerous participants are now talking for reasons that in the end don't matter and for the first time the extent of the problem and who is enabling it are being exposed in a big, big way. Armstrong never rode for Riis yet Riis is almost as much in the hot seat as Bruyneel. McQuaid is potentially in deep doodoo. It does not look like much is going to be left to the imagination as to what went on when its all done.

So Lance, Bruyneel, Ferrari, del Moral and who knows how many more are going down because the code of Omerta is finally getting shredded. They were big boys when they made the decision to cheat and lie and now they can be big boys when it comes to accepting the consequences of their actions.

The issue is not why they doped, or whether they are nice to their mom's or mean to their friends, etc., the issue is that they doped. period... why doesn't matter -only how matters- so it can be stopped.

[Grant McLean]

Sorry, it is. Tony T asked the crowd to name one cyclist IN jail for doping. ...
He was never sentenced and apparently, no one can name a cyclist who was sentenced for doping and served a prison sentence.

Giuseppe Di Grande (ITA) of Mapei was sentenced to six months imprisonment for violating antidoping laws in Italy in 2005 from doping in the 98 Tour. Just not clear if he actually served time, or was the sentence later suspended... not sure that was the actual original question.


http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/oct05/oct25news

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France#1998_Tour_de_France


-g

[Mark McM]

Sorry, it is. Tony T asked the crowd to name one cyclist IN jail for doping. The response was Millar, in 2004, for a brief time, in a holding cell, without a charge and a judge then dropped all charges.

He was never sentenced and apparently, no one can name a cyclist who was sentenced for doping and served a prison sentence.

I guess you missed my post in response to this question pointing out that professional cyclist Raimondas Rumsas served time in an Italian prison for doping. And also pointing out a number of others involved in sports doping (Walter Mayer, Stefan Matschiner, Giuseppe Di Grande, etc. ) have also been been given prison sentences for violating anti-doping laws.

So yes, cyclists (and others) have been sentenced to prison for doping.

[goonster]

Motives, who's a hero, who's a schmuck, what day and hour did what guy blab and why. None of it matters.

What matters is -it's being revealed that doping is rampant in cycling and it's abuse is aided and abetted by the UCI, the team management and the culture of Omerta that has taken root among the athletes. Numerous participants are now talking for reasons that in the end don't matter and for the first time the extent of the problem and who is enabling it are being exposed in a big, big way. Armstrong never rode for Riis yet Riis is almost as much in the hot seat as Bruyneel. McQuaid is potentially in deep doodoo. It does not look like much is going to be left to the imagination as to what went on when its all done.

So Lance, Bruyneel, Ferrari, del Moral and who knows how many more are going down because the code of Omerta is finally getting shredded. They were big boys when they made the decision to cheat and lie and now they can be big boys when it comes to accepting the consequences of their actions.

The issue is not why they doped, or whether they are nice to their mom's or mean to their friends, etc., the issue is that they doped. period... why doesn't matter -only how matters- so it can be stopped.
Post. Of. The. Year.

[93legendti]

I guess you missed my post in response to this question pointing out that professional cyclist Raimondas Rumsas served time in an Italian prison for doping. And also pointing out a number of others involved in sports doping (Walter Mayer, Stefan Matschiner, Giuseppe Di Grande, etc. ) have also been been given prison sentences for violating anti-doping laws.

So yes, cyclists (and others) have been sentenced to prison for doping.
Tell me more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raimondas_Rumsas

In June 2005, Rumšas was arrested before his trial by the Bonneville court.[4] In January 2006, he and his wife received a four-month suspended prison sentences for the import of prohibited doping substances. Polish doctor Krzysztof Ficek was handed a 12-month suspended sentence for prescribing the drugs.[4]

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/rumsas-avoids-prison-sentence-9971/

Former Lampre rider Raimondas Rumsas has avoided prison after being found guilty by a French court in the Alpine town of Bonneville of importing doping products. The Lithuanian has been given a suspended sentence of four months for the offence