The man gives good speech!

[G-Reg]

It's a shame he is such a Db otherwise.


Lance Armstrong cancer speech days after titles stripped (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jxu4QXRdJE)

[Johnnyg]

Lance Armstrong cancer speech days after titles stripped (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jxu4QXRdJE)

A great speech and is still my hero.

[mcteague]

A great speech and is still my hero.

Define "hero". I suspect our definitions may not be the same.

Tim

[wooly]

Define "hero". I suspect our definitions may not be the same.

Tim


He said "my" hero.

[Fixed]

dirty harry is my hero

cheers

[MattTuck]

Thanks for the link. Good speech.

Amazing how much he has bulked up in the upper body.

[PQJ]

Amazing how much he has bulked up in the upper body.

Steroids? ;) Oh, wait, 5 billion tests and no positives. Sorry. Never mind.

[krhea]

Thanks for the link. His passion, determination and drive to help those struck by cancer is inspiring.
When Lance was a high school kid and had just begun to show his triathlon prowess I received a letter from Paula Newby-Fraser, Dave Scott and Scott Molina asking if I'd heard of this "kid" who was killin' it and breathing down their respective necks at races. I was, at the time, directing "athlete operations" and as well directing design for Brooks Shoe Co. During this time our athletes included every single top triathlete of that era with the exception of Mark Allen. I even had Scott Tinley before Reebok opened their extremely large checkbook.

I had just heard of this kid but didn't have any information on who he was, where he lived, really how old he was etc. I asked the athletes to have the "kid" contact me. He did. About 2 weeks later I received an amazing letter from a young Lance Armstrong. In it he told me how much he enjoyed racing but what struck me was the way he talked about training. How he really loved to work hard. How he loved being coached. How he ate, slept and breathed training and racing. He mentioned how he was being raised by a single mother who worked very hard to support him. How she struggled a bit to buy him a bike, keep him in training and racing shoes and how much he appreciated everything she did for him.
He mentioned how much he admired the "Big Four", Dave Scott, Mark Allen, Scott Tinley and Scott Molina. How he wanted to beat Paula at least once and how he knew, some day he could also be one of the "Big Four".

The letter was from a very humble high school kid, wise, honest and open beyond his years. He didn't beg for shoes/clothing, he didn't say he "deserved" anything free and actually he seemed a bit embarrassed to even be writing me. He told me how one of the athletes had given him my card and said write me, that I was cool and easy to talk to. He ended the letter by saying he was a size 9 and that he knew sample size was also a size 9 and if I ever had any left over or wear tested shoes I was going to throw away that he'd appreciate me thinking of him and sending them to him. He said it would save his mother from having to find the money to buy them for him.

That was a long time ago. I couldn't send him free shoes directly because the kid was still in high school and that was against the rules, however, let me say this. I was so impressed with his letter, it was so heart felt and honest that I had to get this "kid" some shoes. I found my way. I'd send my athletes "extra" shoes/clothing/bags etc and when they ran into lance at races they'd "give the kid" some "handouts" so to speak. I'd also send his coach free shoes which just happened to be the same size Lance wore and he'd pass them on.

Our "relationship" lasted a good while. If you ever see a pic of Lance in his younger days check out his feet, there's a good chance you'll see him sporting an extremely bright pink pair of a shoe I called "The King Konquest" racing flat. He loved that shoe as I made it solely for sponsored athletes for a year before it hit the retail market. It was splashed all over running magazine pages, tri magazines pages etc with the top athletes wearing it in competition.
At the time Lance was unique among the people I worked with. After every single weekend race the following Tuesday or Wednesday I'd receive a hand written letter with his race results and a detailed description of every moment during that race. It was a meticulous "diary" written by a high school kid of how his race went. Whether he won or lost he'd send me his results along with a race overview. It was exactly what I asked every athlete that I sponsored to do, but Lance did it best, never missed sending one and was so detailed it was frightening. From the other guys I'd get a quick phone call, "Hey KRhea, I won, thanks for the shoes dude, can you send more..."
Lance never asked for [I]more[I].

For years and years and years I've felt that hey, guess what, I/Brooks was Lance Armstrong's first ever sponsor. We weren't official, didn't have any thing in writing and didn't make it "known" but to Lance we were his sponsor. The same guys who sponsored the best triathletes in the world and that meant something to him.

I cheered for Lance like everyone else. I told stories of the letters he'd write me. How funny he could be, how pissed he'd be that he lost and how he so admired the other tri guys. My kids have found pics of him in my shoes and they thought it was so cool to see him wearing a pair of shoes their dad was responsible for. I believed in Lance, I argued "for" Lance, at times I turned a deaf ear to all the crap that was floating around about him not wanting my fantasy memories to be ruined. Hey, I love cycling and here's this guy who won 7 TDF races and I was his first ever "sponsor", come on, that's really cool. It was like I watched this high school kid grow up and become the best in the world and I had a personal "connection" with him at one time. Lance thought it was cool that I was not just a running geek but that I was a racing cyclist myself. I think he felt I could relate to what he was doing training wise on the bike. Remember, he was in high school.

My kids sat in the living room as I screamed at the TV when Lance hit the ground after getting tangled in the spectator bag and then again when he put his head down and began his search and destroy mission for the remainder of that stage. The hospital and doctor where he spent time during his battle sets about 1.5miles from where I'm typing this. His "real" sponsor, NIKE, who nabbed him with a big check as soon as he was "legal" is not to far from our house. The product guy who was in charge of the Nike Livestrong product line when it came out is my riding buddy and neighbor. The guy who designed Lance's personal custom Nike cycling shoes, Bill, lived across the street from me for years and years. He and I worked together at Reebok for a spell.

You see, I, in some weird way, I have always had somewhat of a "connection" to Lance, from the time he just a high school kid and none of you had any idea who he was or that he even existed.

I've not responded to a single Lance thread on this or any other forum. I've read everything, listened to everything and thought about everything that's been written and said.

I watched that video just now and heard him speak. He spoke with the same passion with which he wrote me letters and spoke to me on the phone many many years ago. I don't know if he doped. I don't care if he doped. What I do know and what I do care about is, I have two dear friends and a family member who have worn Livestrong armbands since they came out. All three wore them in honor and support of a friend or family member who was battling and in one case lost their battle with cancer. The sad thing is, all 3 of those people are now fighting their own battle, one for the second time. They still wear the bracelets. They still "Livestrong" every day. To them it's not about Lance. It's about what they call "Lance's army". Those millions who wear that bracelet every day in solidarity, in belief that some day there will be a cure, in knowing that theirs is a fight that is a fight for millions and they are not alone as long as they wear that silly little yellow thing on their wrist.
When I watched that video I forgot about Lance "the cyclist" and listened to Lance "the humanitarian" speak from the heart and continue to bring hope to millions of moms, dads, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandmas/granpmas around thew world who battle that freakin' illness every day

I'm not stupid, naive or anything else guys. I rode my first century as a 14yr, I'm 55 and have never stopped cycling. I've been in and around the pro world of cycling/running and triathlon in one way or another for years. It's an amazing world we all have a hard time relating to. The training hours alone are enough to make a sane person go crazy, yet, to me, there's never an excuse to cheat.
For Lance's kids sake, I hope he didn't and I hope some day it's proven he didn't simply for his kids sake, however, my bubble was burst awhile back and immediately Lance became "a guy with influence doing something good with his celebrity in the name of cancer victims" instead of Lance "the cyclist" to me.

Sorry about the long post. As I said, I'd never responded to a Lance thread in the past but after watching that video I felt the need to "purge".

[firerescuefin]

Thanks for sharing that Kevin..great read.

Thanks for the link. His passion, determination and drive to help those struck by cancer is inspiring.
When Lance was a high school kid and had just begun to show his triathlon prowess I received a letter from Paula Newby-Fraser, Dave Scott and Scott Molina asking if I'd heard of this "kid" who was killin' it and breathing down their respective necks at races. I was, at the time, directing "athlete operations" and as well directing design for Brooks Shoe Co. During this time our athletes included every single top triathlete of that era with the exception of Mark Allen. I even had Scott Tinley before Reebok opened their extremely large checkbook.

I had just heard of this kid but didn't have any information on who he was, where he lived, really how old he was etc. I asked the athletes to have the "kid" contact me. He did. About 2 weeks later I received an amazing letter from a young Lance Armstrong. In it he told me how much he enjoyed racing but what struck me was the way he talked about training. How he really loved to work hard. How he loved being coached. How he ate, slept and breathed training and racing. He mentioned how he was being raised by a single mother who worked very hard to support him. How she struggled a bit to buy him a bike, keep him in training and racing shoes and how much he appreciated everything she did for him.
He mentioned how much he admired the "Big Four", Dave Scott, Mark Allen, Scott Tinley and Scott Molina. How he wanted to beat Paula at least once and how he knew, some day he could also be one of the "Big Four".

The letter was from a very humble high school kid, wise, honest and open beyond his years. He didn't beg for shoes/clothing, he didn't say he "deserved" anything free and actually he seemed a bit embarrassed to even be writing me. He told me how one of the athletes had given him my card and said write me, that I was cool and easy to talk to. He ended the letter by saying he was a size 9 and that he knew sample size was also a size 9 and if I ever had any left over or wear tested shoes I was going to throw away that he'd appreciate me thinking of him and sending them to him. He said it would save his mother from having to find the money to buy them for him.

That was a long time ago. I couldn't send him free shoes directly because the kid was still in high school and that was against the rules, however, let me say this. I was so impressed with his letter, it was so heart felt and honest that I had to get this "kid" some shoes. I found my way. I'd send my athletes "extra" shoes/clothing/bags etc and when they ran into lance at races they'd "give the kid" some "handouts" so to speak. I'd also send his coach free shoes which just happened to be the same size Lance wore and he'd pass them on.

Our "relationship" lasted a good while. If you ever see a pic of Lance in his younger days check out his feet, there's a good chance you'll see him sporting an extremely bright pink pair of a shoe I called "The King Konquest" racing flat. He loved that shoe as I made it solely for sponsored athletes for a year before it hit the retail market. It was splashed all over running magazine pages, tri magazines pages etc with the top athletes wearing it in competition.
At the time Lance was unique among the people I worked with. After every single weekend race the following Tuesday or Wednesday I'd receive a hand written letter with his race results and a detailed description of every moment during that race. It was a meticulous "diary" written by a high school kid of how his race went. Whether he won or lost he'd send me his results along with a race overview. It was exactly what I asked every athlete that I sponsored to do, but Lance did it best, never missed sending one and was so detailed it was frightening. From the other guys I'd get a quick phone call, "Hey KRhea, I won, thanks for the shoes dude, can you send more..."
Lance never asked for [I]more[I].

For years and years and years I've felt that hey, guess what, I/Brooks was Lance Armstrong's first ever sponsor. We weren't official, didn't have any thing in writing and didn't make it "known" but to Lance we were his sponsor. The same guys who sponsored the best triathletes in the world and that meant something to him.

I cheered for Lance like everyone else. I told stories of the letters he'd write me. How funny he could be, how pissed he'd be that he lost and how he so admired the other tri guys. My kids have found pics of him in my shoes and they thought it was so cool to see him wearing a pair of shoes their dad was responsible for. I believed in Lance, I argued "for" Lance, at times I turned a deaf ear to all the crap that was floating around about him not wanting my fantasy memories to be ruined. Hey, I love cycling and here's this guy who won 7 TDF races and I was his first ever "sponsor", come on, that's really cool. It was like I watched this high school kid grow up and become the best in the world and I had a personal "connection" with him at one time. Lance thought it was cool that I was not just a running geek but that I was a racing cyclist myself. I think he felt I could relate to what he was doing training wise on the bike. Remember, he was in high school.

My kids sat in the living room as I screamed at the TV when Lance hit the ground after getting tangled in the spectator bag and then again when he put his head down and began his search and destroy mission for the remainder of that stage. The hospital and doctor where he spent time during his battle sets about 1.5miles from where I'm typing this. His "real" sponsor, NIKE, who nabbed him with a big check as soon as he was "legal" is not to far from our house. The product guy who was in charge of the Nike Livestrong product line when it came out is my riding buddy and neighbor. The guy who designed Lance's personal custom Nike cycling shoes, Bill, lived across the street from me for years and years. He and I worked together at Reebok for a spell.

You see, I, in some weird way, I have always had somewhat of a "connection" to Lance, from the time he just a high school kid and none of you had any idea who he was or that he even existed.

I've not responded to a single Lance thread on this or any other forum. I've read everything, listened to everything and thought about everything that's been written and said.

I watched that video just now and heard him speak. He spoke with the same passion with which he wrote me letters and spoke to me on the phone many many years ago. I don't know if he doped. I don't care if he doped. What I do know and what I do care about is, I have two dear friends and a family member who have worn Livestrong armbands since they came out. All three wore them in honor and support of a friend or family member who was battling and in one case lost their battle with cancer. The sad thing is, all 3 of those people are now fighting their own battle, one for the second time. They still wear the bracelets. They still "Livestrong" every day. To them it's not about Lance. It's about what they call "Lance's army". Those millions who wear that bracelet every day in solidarity, in belief that some day there will be a cure, in knowing that theirs is a fight that is a fight for millions and they are not alone as long as they wear that silly little yellow thing on their wrist.
When I watched that video I forgot about Lance "the cyclist" and listened to Lance "the humanitarian" speak from the heart and continue to bring hope to millions of moms, dads, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandmas/granpmas around thew world who battle that freakin' illness every day

I'm not stupid, naive or anything else guys. I rode my first century as a 14yr, I'm 55 and have never stopped cycling. I've been in and around the pro world of cycling/running and triathlon in one way or another for years. It's an amazing world we all have a hard time relating to. The training hours alone are enough to make a sane person go crazy, yet, to me, there's never an excuse to cheat.
For Lance's kids sake, I hope he didn't and I hope some day it's proven he didn't simply for his kids sake, however, my bubble was burst awhile back and immediately Lance became "a guy with influence doing something good with his celebrity in the name of cancer victims" instead of Lance "the cyclist" to me.

Sorry about the long post. As I said, I'd never responded to a Lance thread in the past but after watching that video I felt the need to "purge".

[laupsi]

Thanks for sharing that Kevin..great read.

indeed a great story! I can see why you don't care that LA doped.

[MattTuck]

Kevin, I like your story. To say that his wins were due to a genetic or pharmacological reason misses the point.

He's driven. It's in the mind, not the body. If he wasn't a great cyclist, he'd probably be a great lawyer, or a great doctor or a great bike shop owner.

He wakes up everyday thinking how he can do better, and (thankfully for the LiveStrong movement) how can he make the world better. That is how the brain works, not how the body works.

[wooly]

Love that story! What an interesting perspective.

[Chance]

dirty harry is my hero

cheers

That was some kind of speech last night too. Weird but entertaining. Far from usual for the setting. At least people are talking about it.

[Johnnyg]

Thanks for the link. His passion, determination and drive to help those struck by cancer is inspiring.
When Lance was a high school kid and had just begun to show his triathlon prowess I received a letter from Paula Newby-Fraser, Dave Scott and Scott Molina asking if I'd heard of this "kid" who was killin' it and breathing down their respective necks at races. I was, at the time, directing "athlete operations" and as well directing design for Brooks Shoe Co. During this time our athletes included every single top triathlete of that era with the exception of Mark Allen. I even had Scott Tinley before Reebok opened their extremely large checkbook.. That is how I to feel but could not
I had just heard of this kid but didn't have any information on who he was, where he lived, really how old he was etc. I asked the athletes to have the "kid" contact me. He did. About 2 weeks later I received an amazing letter from a young Lance Armstrong. In it he told me how much he enjoyed racing but what struck me was the way he talked about training. How he really loved to work hard. How he loved being coached. How he ate, slept and breathed training and racing. He mentioned how he was being raised by a single mother who worked very hard to support him. How she struggled a bit to buy him a bike, keep him in training and racing shoes and how much he appreciated everything she did for him.
He mentioned how much he admired the "Big Four", Dave Scott, Mark Allen, Scott Tinley and Scott Molina. How he wanted to beat Paula at least once and how he knew, some day he could also be one of the "Big Four".

The letter was from a very humble high school kid, wise, honest and open beyond his years. He didn't beg for shoes/clothing, he didn't say he "deserved" anything free and actually he seemed a bit embarrassed to even be writing me. He told me how one of the athletes had given him my card and said write me, that I was cool and easy to talk to. He ended the letter by saying he was a size 9 and that he knew sample size was also a size 9 and if I ever had any left over or wear tested shoes I was going to throw away that he'd appreciate me thinking of him and sending them to him. He said it would save his mother from having to find the money to buy them for him.

That was a long time ago. I couldn't send him free shoes directly because the kid was still in high school and that was against the rules, however, let me say this. I was so impressed with his letter, it was so heart felt and honest that I had to get this "kid" some shoes. I found my way. I'd send my athletes "extra" shoes/clothing/bags etc and when they ran into lance at races they'd "give the kid" some "handouts" so to speak. I'd also send his coach free shoes which just happened to be the same size Lance wore and he'd pass them on.

Our "relationship" lasted a good while. If you ever see a pic of Lance in his younger days check out his feet, there's a good chance you'll see him sporting an extremely bright pink pair of a shoe I called "The King Konquest" racing flat. He loved that shoe as I made it solely for sponsored athletes for a year before it hit the retail market. It was splashed all over running magazine pages, tri magazines pages etc with the top athletes wearing it in competition.
At the time Lance was unique among the people I worked with. After every single weekend race the following Tuesday or Wednesday I'd receive a hand written letter with his race results and a detailed description of every moment during that race. It was a meticulous "diary" written by a high school kid of how his race went. Whether he won or lost he'd send me his results along with a race overview. It was exactly what I asked every athlete that I sponsored to do, but Lance did it best, never missed sending one and was so detailed it was frightening. From the other guys I'd get a quick phone call, "Hey KRhea, I won, thanks for the shoes dude, can you send more..."
Lance never asked for [I]more[I].

For years and years and years I've felt that hey, guess what, I/Brooks was Lance Armstrong's first ever sponsor. We weren't official, didn't have any thing in writing and didn't make it "known" but to Lance we were his sponsor. The same guys who sponsored the best triathletes in the world and that meant something to him.

I cheered for Lance like everyone else. I told stories of the letters he'd write me. How funny he could be, how pissed he'd be that he lost and how he so admired the other tri guys. My kids have found pics of him in my shoes and they thought it was so cool to see him wearing a pair of shoes their dad was responsible for. I believed in Lance, I argued "for" Lance, at times I turned a deaf ear to all the crap that was floating around about him not wanting my fantasy memories to be ruined. Hey, I love cycling and here's this guy who won 7 TDF races and I was his first ever "sponsor", come on, that's really cool. It was like I watched this high school kid grow up and become the best in the world and I had a personal "connection" with him at one time. Lance thought it was cool that I was not just a running geek but that I was a racing cyclist myself. I think he felt I could relate to what he was doing training wise on the bike. Remember, he was in high school.

My kids sat in the living room as I screamed at the TV when Lance hit the ground after getting tangled in the spectator bag and then again when he put his head down and began his search and destroy mission for the remainder of that stage. The hospital and doctor where he spent time during his battle sets about 1.5miles from where I'm typing this. His "real" sponsor, NIKE, who nabbed him with a big check as soon as he was "legal" is not to far from our house. The product guy who was in charge of the Nike Livestrong product line when it came out is my riding buddy and neighbor. The guy who designed Lance's personal custom Nike cycling shoes, Bill, lived across the street from me for years and years. He and I worked together at Reebok for a spell.

You see, I, in some weird way, I have always had somewhat of a "connection" to Lance, from the time he just a high school kid and none of you had any idea who he was or that he even existed.

I've not responded to a single Lance thread on this or any other forum. I've read everything, listened to everything and thought about everything that's been written and said.

I watched that video just now and heard him speak. He spoke with the same passion with which he wrote me letters and spoke to me on the phone many many years ago. I don't know if he doped. I don't care if he doped. What I do know and what I do care about is, I have two dear friends and a family member who have worn Livestrong armbands since they came out. All three wore them in honor and support of a friend or family member who was battling and in one case lost their battle with cancer. The sad thing is, all 3 of those people are now fighting their own battle, one for the second time. They still wear the bracelets. They still "Livestrong" every day. To them it's not about Lance. It's about what they call "Lance's army". Those millions who wear that bracelet every day in solidarity, in belief that some day there will be a cure, in knowing that theirs is a fight that is a fight for millions and they are not alone as long as they wear that silly little yellow thing on their wrist.
When I watched that video I forgot about Lance "the cyclist" and listened to Lance "the humanitarian" speak from the heart and continue to bring hope to millions of moms, dads, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandmas/granpmas around thew world who battle that freakin' illness every day

I'm not stupid, naive or anything else guys. I rode my first century as a 14yr, I'm 55 and have never stopped cycling. I've been in and around the pro world of cycling/running and triathlon in one way or another for years. It's an amazing world we all have a hard time relating to. The training hours alone are enough to make a sane person go crazy, yet, to me, there's never an excuse to cheat.
For Lance's kids sake, I hope he didn't and I hope some day it's proven he didn't simply for his kids sake, however, my bubble was burst awhile back and immediately Lance became "a guy with influence doing something good with his celebrity in the name of cancer victims" instead of Lance "the cyclist" to me.

Sorry about the long post. As I said, I'd never responded to a Lance thread in the past but after watching that video I felt the need to "purge".
Thanks for posting. That is how I to feel but could not express it so well. A great insight into LA and why he is a winner.

[jonsamg]

Thanks for posting the link. I had read about this but had not been able to find it.

[slowgoing]

Cancer survivor is the only formal title he has left!

During this temporary lull between the end of the USADA investigation and the upcoming civil lawsuits brought by former sponsors, his lawyers and publicists have plenty of time to write speeches for him. They are all trying to rebrand him, hoping we'll forget that in the sporting world, he has been a prolific and unapologetic doper, liar, bully and cheat for the past decade. It won't work. He has already made his own legacy.

[Kirk007]

This thread (and comments in the other many Lance threads) is for me, an illustration of an interesting, and in my view sad commentary on our society, the internet age etc.

It seems that those who have actually met Lance and have some first hand understanding of him as a person have a more nuanced view and understanding of him as a person, and are less quick to judge and condemn. Perhaps they have seen a glimmer of his humanity and can empathize and relate - one flawed human being to another. Many who know him only by his public persona and through the edited clips of television, video and reports or through hearsay from others, are much more quick to judge, condemn and disparage; seeing the issue as black and white with no room for gray. Similar phenomena are seen in the exchanges that happen here over points of contention, other participatory websites and the comment sections of news publications.

How easy it is to be self righteous and all knowing in the impenetrable ether in which we lurk.

[earlfoss]

One person sees a hero, another sees a sociopath, and a different person sees something else entirely. It goes on and on and on....

I see a sociopath on par with the game some national level politicians are able to throw down.

[merlincustom1]

This thread (and comments in the other many Lance threads) is for me, an illustration of an interesting, and in my view sad commentary on our society, the internet age etc.

It seems that those who have actually met Lance and have some first hand understanding of him as a person have a more nuanced view and understanding of him as a person, and are less quick to judge and condemn. Perhaps they have seen a glimmer of his humanity and can empathize and relate - one flawed human being to another. Many who know him only by his public persona and through the edited clips of television, video and reports or through hearsay from others, are much more quick to judge, condemn and disparage; seeing the issue as black and white with no room for gray. Similar phenomena are seen in the exchanges that happen here over points of contention, other participatory websites and the comment sections of news publications.

How easy it is to be self righteous and all knowing in the impenetrable ether in which we lurk.

Would you recognize a third category, those who have read all that's available about everything that went into USADA's charging document; everything in the Walsh book; everything Ashenden has said about the science involved, etc.? The answer to whether he doped or not is black or white with no shades of gray. I believe he doped based on the science. I'd imagine that most people who believe he was clean haven't read all that is out there on the topic science wise, or refuse to believe he doped because Floyd and Tyler are liars, or just find it hard to accept that their cancer hero is a liar. Equally problematic are those on the other side who think he doped because the'd say he's a narcissist and a prick and a bully and that's all they need.

Pre-internet, it was easier to get away with things because, really, who knew? Now, everything's available, but the problem is separating the wheat from the chaff.

[Grant McLean]

It seems that those who have actually met Lance and have some first hand understanding of him as a person have a more nuanced view and understanding of him as a person, and are less quick to judge and condemn. Perhaps they have seen a glimmer of his humanity and can empathize and relate - one flawed human being to another. Many who know him only by his public persona and through the edited clips of television, video and reports or through hearsay from others, are much more quick to judge, condemn and disparage; seeing the issue as black and white with no room for gray.


That's a lot of assumptions. It took me about 10 years to become as sure
as I can be that Lance doped. Because I think he doped does not mean I have
been quick to judge, on the contrary.

Having some personal interaction with a person means nothing. A person
I knew very well for 15 years was cheating on his wife, and I never knew until
much later when someone else told me. How would I have known this?
After I found out, a lot of things made sense though. When they admitted
it to me, i was shocked they could do this.

At the end of the day, it's black and white whether or not Lance doped.
He either did or didn't. I have chosen to believe he did, based on many
statements, observations, readings, discussion, historical context, and
many factors I have weighed and thought about for a long time.

When someone like Phil Liggett says that "he looked into Lance's eyes"
and takes him at his word that he is innocent, it makes me just shake
my head in disbelief that alone is a good enough reason. I can't set aside
all the pieces of the puzzle that have convinced me - beyond the point
that I am satisfied in my opinion that he doped.

-g

[mcteague]

He said "my" hero.

Yeah, I can read. I still would like to know his definition of hero. Far too many use that term so much it fails to hold any meaning. When\where did he risk life and limb for others. Generally, that is the accepted meaning of hero.

Tim

[ifouiripilay]

Krhea- thanks for sharing

[krhea]

Generally, that is the accepted meaning of hero.

Tim

Maybe you should write your comment as follows:

"Generally, that is MY/YOUR accepted meaning of hero".

My dad is one of my heros and he never risk life or limb for me, yet he worked hard at sucky job, raised 6 kids without complaining, made sure we had clothes, food, medical care etc before he took care of himself and was quick to offer assistance to members of our community who were even poorer than we were. He loved my mom and treated her respect and caring every moment they were together. He taught me lessons that I use with my kids today and that I used in business throughout my career. He taught me how a man was suppose to treat a woman, be it his mother, his wife or any woman of that matter. Nope, he didn't run out in front of a speeding train and save me nor did he take a bullet for me but he certainly qualifies, at least in my world, as one of my heros. I just don't think ya need to include the "life and limb" part of your qualifier for someone to consider someone else a "hero". A hero can be many things to many different people, none of them wrong nor worthy of your judgement. Use your definition as it fits your purpose and the rest of us will respectfully do the same.

[oldpotatoe]

Kevin, I like your story. To say that his wins were due to a genetic or pharmacological reason misses the point.

He's driven. It's in the mind, not the body. If he wasn't a great cyclist, he'd probably be a great lawyer, or a great doctor or a great bike shop owner.



hey, hey, HEY.....don't get personal!!!

I use PDD..Performance Damaging Drugs...beer!!!

[Fixed]

Maybe you should write your comment as follows:

"Generally, that is MY/YOUR accepted meaning of hero".

My dad is one of my heros and he never risk life or limb for me, yet he worked hard at sucky job, raised 6 kids without complaining, made sure we had clothes, food, medical care etc before he took care of himself and was quick to offer assistance to members of our community who were even poorer than we were. He loved my mom and treated her respect and caring every moment they were together. He taught me lessons that I use with my kids today and that I used in business throughout my career. He taught me how a man was suppose to treat a woman, be it his mother, his wife or any woman of that matter. Nope, he didn't run out in front of a speeding train and save me nor did he take a bullet for me but he certainly qualifies, at least in my world, as one of my heros. I just don't think ya need to include the "life and limb" part of your qualifier for someone to consider someone else a "hero". A hero can be many things to many different people, none of them wrong nor worthy of your judgement. Use your definition as it fits your purpose and the rest of us will respectfully do the same.

The generation of the early 20th century .. Has a lot to teach the generation of the early 21st century IMHO
Cheers :)

[Kirk007]

That's a lot of assumptions. It took me about 10 years to become as sure
as I can be that Lance doped. Because I think he doped does not mean I have
been quick to judge, on the contrary.

Having some personal interaction with a person means nothing. A person
I knew very well for 15 years was cheating on his wife, and I never knew until
much later when someone else told me. How would I have known this?
After I found out, a lot of things made sense though. When they admitted
it to me, i was shocked they could do this.

At the end of the day, it's black and white whether or not Lance doped.
He either did or didn't. I have chosen to believe he did, based on many
statements, observations, readings, discussion, historical context, and
many factors I have weighed and thought about for a long time.

When someone like Phil Liggett says that "he looked into Lance's eyes"
and takes him at his word that he is innocent, it makes me just shake
my head in disbelief that alone is a good enough reason. I can't set aside
all the pieces of the puzzle that have convinced me - beyond the point
that I am satisfied in my opinion that he doped.

-g

I stopped believing long ago that he didn't dope. Highly driven, his life saved in part by taking dangerous drugs, I doubt he feared physical repercussions. I figured that his fanatical preparation etc. applied to his regimen as well and that if he was doping his discipline and program is a distinguishing factor between others who were caught earlier.

Sorry my post was unclear, I wasn't talking about the doping aspect as all, rather it is my observation of how we treat one another, particularly in America these days. Lots of judgment, little empathy. In my line of work I've represented or otherwise dealt with a lot of "Lance" like personalities in corporate America. Highly driven, narcisstic beyond belief, will do almost anything to succeed, including lying, cheating and gutting friends when it becomes advantageous to do so. Yet some of these folks who I've come to know well go home at the end of the day to loving spouses, seemingly well adjusted kids etc. Perceived by many as pillars of their communities, I see a very different side. But I wonder how many would attack such "pilllars" if their deeds were made public vs passing it off as "well that's what it takes to survive in the corporate business world today." And I find it somewhat surprising that many folks are now praising Tyler and others for coming forward. Are they really acting at a higher moral level than Lance? If they had never been caught would they be singing now?

So all this about Lance doesn't surprise me. It neither makes me loath nor worship the man. He is just a man, with human frailties and weaknesses like the rest of us. His just happen to be on full display now as often happens with folks who choose to live very public lives. Frankly, I'm not a good enough man to be passing judgment on him and then publicly condemning him like he was the most recent incarnation of the devil. That old throw the first stone thing. But perhaps I'm just getting old, cynical and have had my expectations of human behaivor beaten down to a fairly low level.

And at the end of the day, Lance appears to have cheated and lied about bike racing. Most of the members of Congress and the Senate, and the Executive branch, regardless of political affiliation, make Lance look like an amateur, the most significant difference being that they are lying and cheating about things that really matter. And we have no one to blame but ourselves, as we put them there and tolerate their conduct.

[G-Reg]

.......
So all this about Lance doesn't surprise me. It neither makes me loath nor worship the man. He is just a man, with human frailties and weaknesses like the rest of us. His just happen to be on full display now as often happens with folks who choose to live very public lives. Frankly, I'm not a good enough man to be passing judgment on him and then publicly condemning him like he was the most recent incarnation of the devil. That old through the first stone thing. But perhaps I'm just getting old, cynical and have had my expectations of human behaivor beaten down to a fairly low level.

And at the end of the day, Lance appears to have cheated and lied about bike racing. Most of the members of Congress and the Senate, and the Executive branch, regardless of political affiliation, make Lance look like an amateur, the most significant difference being that they are lying and cheating about things that really matter. And we have no one to blame but ourselves, as we put them there and tolerate their conduct.

I disagree!

[Grant McLean]

And at the end of the day, Lance appears to have cheated and lied about bike racing.

I appreciate where you are coming from with all the other points you made,
but this last one seems me to minimize the seriousness of doping, especially
in Lance's case. He sued and settled a $7.5 million dollar contract with SCA Promotions.
He's lied about big money, it's not about "bike racing". Tens of millions of dollars.


Most of the members of Congress and the Senate, and the Executive branch, regardless of political affiliation, make Lance look like an amateur, the most significant difference being that they are lying and cheating about things that really matter.

Attacking the legitimacy of the government is a big reason many folks think
the USADA has no credibility. Unfortunately, it's a sad commentary
on a society that has lost trust in their institutions. I don't think restoring
that faith in goverment is going to be accomplished by creating a scorecard
of what lies and cheating are worse than others. We need a return to personal
honour and responsibility. Lance mocks the concept of responsibility, blames
others, points the figure, when it's time to look within.

I agree that everyone has made mistakes, I sure have. But some people
will fight to the end to deny the truth, others finally step up and take personal
responsibility for their choices. It's curious to me that many folks who have
decided that Lance has doped, but feel it doesn't matter that he won't take
responsibility for it.

I'm saddened by people who don't think it's important, perhaps vital to marginalize
doping in cycling, for Lance step up and own his actions? How can we expect
future generations to understand what it means to have responsibility?
If the biggest names get a pass, why don't we all?

-g

[nicrump]

[x] like

Thanks for the link. His passion, determination and drive to help those struck by cancer is inspiring.
When Lan...

[G-Reg]

....
If the biggest names get a pass, why don't we all?

-g

+100