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bobswire
08-29-2012, 07:32 PM
Since there has been so much talk on LA, doping and morality I thought this was an interesting take.
Came across this today on RKP
Quote:
RKP Keeping Score
http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/08/keeping-score/
Playing to Lose
There’s a lot of talk that in doping, Armstrong didn’t level the playing field because each rider responds to doping products and methods differently. While that is true, here’s another fundamental truth: Every clean rider is different. Pros have widely varying VO2 maxes, maximum and resting heart rates and lactate thresholds. You line up for a race hoping that your training has been sufficient to overcome any genetic shortcomings you might have. There is no level playing field.

There’s an oddly relevant scene early in Douglas Adams’ book “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.” Adams describes a drinking game played by the character Ford Prefect that involved something called Old Janx Spirit and telekinetic powers. The loser of the game was forced to perform a stunt that was “usually obscenely biological.”

Then came the line, “Ford Prefect usually played to lose.”

I was a teenager when I read this and the thought that someone might want to deliberately lose a drinking game was funnier than a Monty Python movie. However, it started within me a more serious meditation on why someone might enter any contest with the intention of losing. I didn’t come up with an answer for situations that didn’t involve anything “obscenely biological” until I came to appreciate the nomination process in American politics, a place where people with neither the qualifications nor chance of becoming president will run for the office as a way to angle for a job better than the one they have. More recently, though, I’ve come to see riders who chose to race clean during the height of the EPO problem—we’re talking mid-1990s through the turn of the century—in a similar light.

Given that the vast majority of results from that era are dominated by riders who we know doped, riders who lined up for any race big enough to warrant television coverage without veins filled with rocket fuel were bringing fingernail clippers to an air strike. They were playing to lose.

The problem isn’t that they lacked ambition or a work ethic; rather, it seems that those riders brought morality into what has effectively been an amoral system. The only proven way to win during that era was to dope.

giverdada
08-29-2012, 07:53 PM
i dig this.

eippo1
08-29-2012, 09:20 PM
i dig this.

Me too. Nothing to add but great take.

Lewis Moon
08-29-2012, 10:06 PM
Nicely done. Can't say as I have an answer, but this does more than most to elevate the conversation.

Jaq
08-29-2012, 10:34 PM
A bit of realpolitik, but still a pitch to embrace the absolutism of raw Social Darwinism without regard to the mores imposed by the social contract. It's praise for the unreconstructed, self-determined man who views all life as a zero-sum game and will do, literally, anything to win. One of the great literary examples was Wolf Larsen, Jack London's brutal sealing-ship captain.

As such, I think it's steeped in selfishness, and therefore invalid. Honesty, character, integrity, charity and compassion have to count for something, or we're no better than mindless beasts.

But ymmv.

bobswire
08-30-2012, 10:15 AM
A bit of realpolitik, but still a pitch to embrace the absolutism of raw Social Darwinism without regard to the mores imposed by the social contract. It's praise for the unreconstructed, self-determined man who views all life as a zero-sum game and will do, literally, anything to win. One of the great literary examples was Wolf Larsen, Jack London's brutal sealing-ship captain.

As such, I think it's steeped in selfishness, and therefore invalid.
or we're no better than mindless beasts.

But ymmv.

Jag I have to disagree with you. Pro athletes don't compete at their level
for altruistic reasons.
Of course they race for selfish reasons nor does that make it invalid.
Honesty, character, integrity, charity and compassion have to count for something. Of course it does but I tend to look beyond athletes to fill that void. In fact that pretty much describes me, nancy says I'm honest to a fault.
Always have been nor am I single minded, which is required to perform at their levels.
I am not qualified to judge their morality,I have a tough enough time keeping mine in check.
Anyway the way I see it is all the TdF Yellow Jersey winners were products of their era.
You don't win 7 tours just from juicing, or 5 or 4 or even 3. You win them because you were the best of the bunch during that era regardless.
Vilifying one rider while giving the rest a pass is silly, period.

Not a one of the TdF winners did it for altruistic reasons.

Jaq
08-30-2012, 11:34 AM
Jag I have to disagree with you. Pro athletes don't compete at their level
for altruistic reasons.
Of course they race for selfish reasons nor does that make it invalid.
Honesty, character, integrity, charity and compassion have to count for something. Of course it does but I tend to look beyond athletes to fill that void. In fact that pretty much describes me, nancy says I'm honest to a fault.
Always have been nor am I single minded, which is required to perform at their levels.
I am not qualified to judge their morality,I have a tough enough time keeping mine in check.
Anyway the way I see it is all the TdF Yellow Jersey winners were products of their era.
You don't win 7 tours just from juicing, or 5 or 4 or even 3. You win them because you were the best of the bunch during that era regardless.
Vilifying one rider while giving the rest a pass is silly, period.

Not a one of the TdF winners did it for altruistic reasons.

Oh, I agree that pro-athletes march to the beat of a different drum. I think most people who achieve extreme success in their field of endeavor tend to have a myopic world-view, extreme self-confidence, indifference to "the rules", etc. There are studies, in fact, suggesting that extremely successful people tend to be a bit sociopathic, but express it in culturally sanctioned ways.

The issue seems to be whether we should be able to hold them to the same standard of behavior as the rest of us. Celebrity is a powerful intoxicant, not just to the individual in question, but to those of us who bask in it second-hand. Maybe I'm just showing my age, but I don't think it's too much to ask for a little restraint, a little less blind idolization that allows - even encourages - outrageous behavior on the part of the 1%.

Dave B
08-30-2012, 11:51 AM
Big deal, I know every race I have ever entered I planned not to win. :)

bikinchris
08-30-2012, 12:38 PM
None of the top riders would be able to resist doping. They cannot let someone have any advantage on them. Lesser riders who refuse to dope would quit, since they cannot (in their own mind) compete.
So agree that they beat to a different drum. Anything to win. Goldman principle again:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/phys-ed-will-olympic-athletes-dope-if-they-know-it-might-kill-them/

Gummee
08-30-2012, 01:29 PM
As such, I think it's steeped in selfishness, and therefore invalid. Honesty, character, integrity, charity and compassion have to count for something, or we're no better than mindless beasts.

But ymmv.Can you argue that within the ethos of the pro peloton that you can have honesty, character, etc etc despite doping? :ear After all, that one aspect of their character (flaw?) isn't the whole person.

Hincapie springs to mind.

??

M

Jaq
08-30-2012, 02:36 PM
Can you argue that within the ethos of the pro peloton that you can have honesty, character, etc etc despite doping? :ear After all, that one aspect of their character (flaw?) isn't the whole person.

Hincapie springs to mind.

??

M

Is there honor among thieves? I think it depends on how deeply that one flaw controls their lives or determines their course through it. My daughter attends a school where convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff recently gave a talk.

Her and her friends' reactions were the same: they were having trouble wrapping their heads around the idea that such a nice guy could have done the things he'd been convicted of.

Should we despise a President for having sex with an intern? Should we elect a president who has substance-abuse problems (some of them very likely felonious). Is a pro-athlete who engages in dog fighting really to be despised?

Some people say it's naive and even infringing to expect folks of that caliber to behave any differently. Others are willing to pillory an otherwise honorable kid for running around Vegas with his Wee Willie Winkie dangling about. I think I'm pretty solidly in the middle... though my cup of tears doesn't overfloweth for LA.

Rueda Tropical
08-30-2012, 02:42 PM
There is no free lunch. Christophe Bassons is happy with his choices and his life. He sounds to me he "won" what was important to him.

The one champion cyclist who I can say I admire as a person and not just an athlete, Gino Bartali said:

“Good is something you do, not something you talk about. Some medals are pinned to your soul, not to your jacket.”