Advice for budding hobbyist frame builder.

[Mr Cabletwitch]

I've gotten to the point in my stable that I love all my bikes fit wise except my Surly crosscheck for me the seat tube and head tube are too short but the top tube is right on. The only way to get a proper fit I believe is to go custom and I'm not about to drop that kind of money on something that gets beat on, not that I could afford it anyway. I have access to a very nice TIG welder and have access to a very skilled welder. We are currently in house building a completely custom 39 Chevy so I have access to all kinds of fun stuff including a tube bender.

So the question is...

Is it even worth building myself a frame it will be single run so I don't want to build a complicated jig (can it even be done without)?

How difficult would it be to replace the head tube and top tube on my cross check to increase the head tube length to around 150mm and then use a longer sloping top tube?

Where do I even acquire bicycle tubing?

[miguel]

have you ever built/made something rather than buy a professionally made, readily available good?

you are going to run in to two things:
1. takes more time than you think
2. costs more money to start up

on the other hand, there is a certain pride of having a self-made item, made to your own specifications.

overhead/start up is the first hurdle for artisans.

[miguel]

google nova tubing

[miguel]

also, some encouragement, go check VS and read the threads in the framebuilder forum. lots and lots of info.

[Mr Cabletwitch]

I've made a few things before, I'm no stranger to the concept. If what I was looking for was readily available I'd buy it, but unless you know of an off the shelf cross style bike with at least a 150mm head tube and a 53cm Top tube, and clearance for massive rubber I'm left with either a custom builder or myself. I'm kinda leaning toward replacing the head tube and top tube on my cross check just to save all the hassle of rear triangle welding and alignment.

Nova Tubing seems to have the supplies Thanks.

Here is a shot of the family shop right now

[ergott]

I would definitely check out the velocipedesalon frambuilding section. They could provide some pointers to your welder with regards to bicycle tubing. There might be some specific techniques they use.

[Louis]

The only way to get a proper fit I believe is to go custom and I'm not about to drop that kind of money on something that gets beat on, not that I could afford it anyway.

If you want to design and build one yourself because you think it will be fun, then I say go for it. However, since your time is presumably worth something to you, either way you will be "dropping that kid of money," whether it be in time or cash. I'd save $2k over time and have a pro build one for me - but I don't have access to all the tools you have.

[William]

Sometimes it's just about "the doing". If I had access to the tools, I'd give it a shot myself. If you like doing things with your hands, you have the tools and the will, I say go for it.:cool:






William

PS: You can go check out other areas for info, but builders are welcome to post up here as well.:)


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[Puget Pounder]

how much more do you need your headtube extended? Why not try the ones from Eighth Inch? They are made to go on the bottom of the headtube for barspin clearance, but you can put them on top of the headtube.

http://www.buyafixie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/extenders.jpg

[cmg]

just build from scratch the entire frameset. tubesets can be had from Nova cycles http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/TUBE-SETS/ Build yourself a jig out of something cheap metal framing comes to mind. http://www.instructables.com/id/The-simplest-bicycle-framebuilding-jig-I-could-com/ or copy this design http://www.brewracingframes.com/id71.htm

[gdw]

Go for it. You have the tools, shop, and welder available so half the battle is won.
Here's another valuable source of info:
http://search.bikelist.org/
The framebuilders forum is no longer active but you can search the archives.

[Doug Fattic]

I've been teaching framebuilding classes ever since I got back from my apprenticeship in England in the 70's. I was a high school teacher before I became a framebuilder/painter. I think the primary reason to build your own frame is the satisfaction of building something with your own hands that just fits your bicycle position. Getting a proper fit and turning that into a frame design that matches their purpose is the 1st class activity. Students feel a real justifiable pride when they are finished. It shouldn't be about any money savings because whether you (try) to do it all yourself or take a class or pay a professional, its going to cost you. I teach mostly 3 week classes 6 or 7 times a year. Once in awhile I do a 1 or 2 week class for those with restrictions and in January a 3 day brazing class. It is a rare person that doesn't need a lot of help and instruction to make anywhere near a decent frame. Even after an explanation and then a demonstration, most students still need constant supervision or the wheels start to come off if they are left without supervision. I often wonder what the long term result is with those that go it alone with minimal tools.

It does take a lot of tooling to make frames although it is possible to get by with less by exchanging time for equipment. It is still necessary to somehow hold tubes exactly to your design whether it is in a 5K fixture or some kind of home made contraption. Back when I started teaching framebuilding classes, most students just wanted to make something themselves instead of buying a Colango or similar. Now almost everyone wants to somehow make more after class. Most students' frame specifications are no where near what they could buy at a retail store. We are not all made to fit the middle of the bell curve. Typically they want something for wider tires with racks and fenders.

Here are a couple of pictures of 2 guys that finished their frames in another 3 week class last Friday. I did the spraying and they did all the prep work. I bribed them to smile.

[cmg]

here's a link to a builder that offers to tutorials on frame building. http://www.littlefishbicycles.com/

[christian]

Not for nothing, as I'm sure you have worked this out for yourself, but you need a bike with a 395mm a-c, a 150mm head tube, and a 530mm top tube?

So your road bikes that fit you well have 530mm top tubes and ~177mm head tubes? How is it possible you are happy with your other bike fits? Are they all custom?

[John M]

What is wrong with this if it fits (pirated the pic from your post on another thread)? Looks fine to me, unless the fit with that set up is wrong.

Is the upsloping stem aesthetically unpleasing or do you need even higher bar height? If aesthetics are the reason, I can't see the aesthetic advantage of a tall headtube and sloping top tube. If higher bar height is what you need, then one of those fork extenders might be the solution.

Seems that for something that "gets beat on", you already have close to what you need.

[Mr Cabletwitch]

What is wrong with this if it fits (pirated the pic from your post on another thread)? Looks fine to me, unless the fit with that set up is wrong.

Is the upsloping stem aesthetically unpleasing or do you need even higher bar height? If aesthetics are the reason, I can't see the aesthetic advantage of a tall headtube and sloping top tube. If higher bar height is what you need, then one of those fork extenders might be the solution.

Seems that for something that "gets beat on", you already have close to what you need.


Your dead on that I do have something close to what I need. The upsloping stem and stack of spacers work for a road bar, but ideally I'd like to run a dirt drop bar on this and be able to use the drops 90% of the time.

Since that pic has been taken I have switched back to a compact road type bar with only a 17* stem, and its great for on the road and rail trails but for single track and even double track offroad I'd like to run a dirt drop bar, where my hands can be in the drops most of the time and in a proper position to grab the brakes.

One of those headtube extenders would help and might solve the problem enough to not worry about it.