Wider tires and wider rims results

[cnighbor1]

OK
The new racing setup is wider tires and wider rims with lower pressure in tires.
Which better aero dynamics and less fatique after a day of racing
So answer these questions on what your using is following above
1. what rims with size are you using?

2. what tires and air pressure air you running?

3. going a bit faster with less effort?

4 Is ride a bit smoother due to tire size and lower air pressure?

Thanks
Charles

[LegendRider]

1. Hed Belgium C2 rims laced to Dura Ace 7900 hubs with DT Aerolite spokes.
2. Conti GP4000s (23mm) - they measure 25.5mm with calipers. Running 95/100 psi
3. No idea, but I'm happy with the set-up
4. I presume a little of both, they are comfortable and MOST IMPORTANTLY they are confidence inspiring in the corners.

[thinpin]

1. Hed Belgium C2 rims laced to Dura Ace 7900 hubs with DT Aerolite spokes.
2. Conti GP4000s (23mm) - they measure 25.5mm with calipers. Running 95/100 psi
3. No idea, but I'm happy with the set-up
4. I presume a little of both, they are comfortable and MOST IMPORTANTLY they are confidence inspiring in the corners.

#4.Cornering. Absolutely.

[eddief]

No measurements. I just like em. Seems smooth and fast. I run 25mm tires on my Open Pros and my Stans 340's too.

[Grant McLean]

Which better aero dynamics and less fatique after a day of racing

I honestly think there is not enough difference between wheels
for mortals to notice fatigue or speed over a variable ride in the
real world of any significant length.

Next time i'm in a GC battle of seconds in a prologue or final TT,
I'll go with every aero advantage... until then, there is more drag
with my iPhone in my jersey pocket than i worry about my wheels.

On long rides, there is way more difference in my performance and
comfort between being on a 'good day' than any equipment makes.
Some fresh Assos bibs is the best money spent.

-g

[false_Aest]

OK
The new racing setup is wider tires and wider rims with lower pressure in tires.
Which better aero dynamics and less fatique after a day of racing
So answer these questions on what your using is following above
1. what rims with size are you using?

2. what tires and air pressure air you running?

3. going a bit faster with less effort?

4 Is ride a bit smoother due to tire size and lower air pressure?

Thanks
Charles

1. boyd .. 21mm (not exactly WIDEEEEEE but whatever. they're as wide as nemesisisisisisisis)
2. kenda volare 24mm; 90/95... do you weigh what I do?
3. uh. not exactly the point for mortals.
4. yes and that ****e grips more better on tight-tight switchbacks.


PS. Volare are t3h t1ts.

[BCS]

OK
The new racing setup is wider tires and wider rims with lower pressure in tires.
Which better aero dynamics and less fatique after a day of racing
So answer these questions on what your using is following above
1. what rims with size are you using?

2. what tires and air pressure air you running?

3. going a bit faster with less effort?

4 Is ride a bit smoother due to tire size and lower air pressure?

Thanks
Charles

1. Hed C2 Tubular

2. Veloflex Arenberg 25c 85/90 psi

3. Probably no faster

4. Without a doubt

[Rueda Tropical]

23mm a23 rims, 28mm Ultremo ZX tires -85 psi front, 90 psi rear

I don't know about faster but the combo feels more sure footed, more "stuck to the road" -less skittering around and a bit more comfortable.

[one60]

I'm with Rueda Ultremo ZX in 28c size are an amazing ride. I am on traditional width XR200 rims but w/o doubt these ride much better than conti gp4000, pro-race3 in 23c or ultremos in 25c. Run mine at 80-85f/85-90r (i weigh 155-160) though the accuracy of my pump leads me to adjust pressure by flex/feel. When the pressure is just right they sing over rough stuff like chip-seal that leaves all the 'racer types' riding 23c with >100psi grimacing or lifting there posteriors off the seat. They descend faster than the narrow tires as well

[flydhest]

Last race was on A23s. Michelin 23 tires, 90 psi.
Felt good, but not huge difference in feel. My fast or slow is not a function of my wheels and tires. I like them, though.

[giverdada]

1. what rims with size are you using?
Velocity A23, 23mm wide

2. what tires and air pressure air you running?
Continental Grand Prix, 24mm, 90-100psi

3. going a bit faster with less effort?
Probably, but with 32 round spokes i still feel gusts of cross wind in a less-than-favorable deceleration. Smoothness makes it faster, and more comfortable, so longer and faster. Don't know anything about aerodynamics, except that when I put an aerojacket on the rear wheel for a duathlon in July, it felt like it was slippery through the wind - totally awesome feeling.

4 Is ride a bit smoother due to tire size and lower air pressure?
Riding is not a bit smoother; riding is ASTOUNDINGLY smoother. As in: I frequently check my tire pressure to make sure that I inflated sufficiently because they ride so smoothly they feel flat. Of course, the tires are inflated, and the ride is just that smooth. As in, tubular smooth. I rode a wide rim in front and tubular in back and couldn't tell the difference in smoothness or cornering.

Thanks
Charles[/QUOTE]

[Jaq]

Mavic Reflex, Vittoria Corsas 23 front & back. I initially went with a Tufo 23 up front and a 25 in back, dropped the pressure to about 90. I'm sure it was all in my head, but it did feel a little more inertial. Swapped to a Vittoria Corsa 23 in back, same pressure (90) and it felt as fast as the 21s I used to run front and back.

Want to try a set of Vit. Pave Evos in 27, just to see. Certainly someone here posted a link during the spring about the Paris-Roubaix teams going up to 25s and 27s and slightly lower pressures and having no regrets.

[saab2000]

I ride a set of A23s as a kind of experiment. I do feel a difference in one area. I ride with 25mm tires and yes, they do roll over stuff better with a less jarring ride. And the positive is that with the wider rims there is less of the 'light bulb' shape and the mushiness associated with that when climbing out of the saddle.

It is also a somewhat heavy and dead-feeling combo. The wider rim is heavier and so is the wider tire. There's no free lunch and I still prefer, strongly, my tubulars.

That said, if someone can't feel the difference then it's not a bad thing. The wider contact patch is a good thing and it does ride more smoothly than a narrower tire.

Just remember, no free lunch.

That is my experience with at least 1000 miles on the wheels.

I'm curious about the offset A23s (coming), which would allow for a stronger wheel build and fewer spokes equalling a lighter wheel and also using some lighter tires. This would offset some of the negatives with weight I have experienced.

[Tony T]

H.E.D. clincher
Conti 4000s
90-100psi (I pump up to 100psi, and let is air-down to 90)
Smoother ride than my old clichers @ 120psi (to be expected, lower psi=smoother ride)
(and I'll jinx myself here: fewer flats @ 100psi)

[oldpotatoe]

I honestly think there is not enough difference between wheels
for mortals to notice fatigue or speed over a variable ride in the
real world of any significant length.

Next time i'm in a GC battle of seconds in a prologue or final TT,
I'll go with every aero advantage... until then, there is more drag
with my iPhone in my jersey pocket than i worry about my wheels.

On long rides, there is way more difference in my performance and
comfort between being on a 'good day' than any equipment makes.
Some fresh Assos bibs is the best money spent.

-g

Reality, what a concept.

[echelon_john]

I build a lot of wide-rimmed wheels, and have ridden a lot of them as well. I don't feel a performance difference in terms of speed. I do feel a comfort difference, and a confidence improvement when cornering/descending.

In addition, for big folks, the combo of wider rim/larger tire/appropriate spoke count CAN produce a wheel that is stiff (in terms of minimizing brake pad rub) and still comfortable and responsive.

Wide rims/tires aren't magic, but I sure wouldn't choose to ride a 700x21 tire on an open pro if I had access to a 25-27 on an A3, C2 or Archetype.

[mcgillicuddy_p]

1. what rims with size are you using?

Industry 9 i25 wheels with HED C2 rims.

2. what tires and air pressure air you running?

Michelin PR4 (23mm). 95 psi

3. going a bit faster with less effort?

Seem faster, but not sure about less effort.

4 Is ride a bit smoother due to tire size and lower air pressure?

Ride is a lot smoother and really confidence inspiring. I definitely push the limits with these wheels more than my others (Dura Ace 7850 with Hutchinson tubeless). I could not be happier with them.

[Gummee]

I'm running a pair of A23s with 23c Vittoria Rubino Pros. There *may* be a slight rolling resistance improvement with em at my normal road pressure (100/110) but overall...

...they're wheels.

They go round and round and probably will till I either trade em out for some Open Pros/Excellights/Aeroheads or change my cross racing tubulars out for 23mm wide carbon rims. Changing back and forth between wide and narrow rims is a PITA.

Since I only have one pair of A23s and 6 pairs of 19mm wheels, the A23s get moved to the Quattro Assi for the winter and the rest of em rotate thru the 2 cross bikes.

M

[Chance]

OK
The new racing setup is wider tires and wider rims with lower pressure in tires.
Which better aero dynamics and less fatique after a day of racing


Don't quite follow what this highlighted part means. Are you saying that a wider tire on a wider rim reduces aerodynamic drag compared to a proportionally narrower rim and tire combination? It's hard to follow why that would be the case as long as proportions are similar. Normally larger anything has more aero drag provided everything else is very similar, doesn't it?:confused:

[thwart]

Don't quite follow what this highlighted part means. Are you saying that a wider tire on a wider rim reduces aerodynamic drag compared to a proportionally narrower rim and tire combination? It's hard to follow why that would be the case as long as proportions are similar. Normally larger anything has more aero drag provided everything else is very similar, doesn't it?:confused:
In 2006 Steve became rather dissatisfied with the interaction between the rim and the tire. By this time the 23mm tire had become the standard choice for nearly every cyclist. However, Steve noticed that combining a wider tire with a narrow rim simply did not make any sense. Aerodynamically, the narrow 19mm rim and a 23mm tire created a light bulb shaped profile. Needless to say, this is just not very efficient and leads to increased wind drag. Steve simply invented a solution and Hed's C2 technology was born. C2 technology has its maximum effect on clincher tires by solving the problem of the tires requiring extreme pressure to keep them from flopping over the rim during a turn. This high pressure also leads to deficiencies in cornering performance and comfort. By making the rim edge wider, C2 allows the tire to flow almost perfectly into the rim shape, ushering in a revolutionary step forward in aerodynamic performance. Although, the benefits of C2 design go even further. The wider tire mount also creates a larger contact patch with the road which distributes load better and lowers speed-sapping rolling resistance. All said, C2 technology improves aerodynamics, increases the road/tire contact patch for better cornering grip, decreases rolling resistance, and allows the wheel to be more comfortably ridden at a lower tire pressure. Not a bad improvement.

From Hed's website...

[oldpotatoe]

I build a lot of wide-rimmed wheels, and have ridden a lot of them as well. I don't feel a performance difference in terms of speed. I do feel a comfort difference, and a confidence improvement when cornering/descending.

In addition, for big folks, the combo of wider rim/larger tire/appropriate spoke count CAN produce a wheel that is stiff (in terms of minimizing brake pad rub) and still comfortable and responsive.

Wide rims/tires aren't magic, but I sure wouldn't choose to ride a 700x21 tire on an open pro if I had access to a 25-27 on an A3, C2 or Archetype.

or a 25 or 28c tire on an openpro. Tire width, volume and tire type makes far more difference than 2 or 3mm rim width, IMHO. To bad some rim makers are discontinuing a really good rim(Aerohead and Aerohead OC) in 'favor' of the A23, wide rim...

[Chance]

In 2006 Steve became rather dissatisfied with the interaction between the rim and the tire. By this time the 23mm tire had become the standard choice for nearly every cyclist. However, Steve noticed that combining a wider tire with a narrow rim simply did not make any sense. Aerodynamically, the narrow 19mm rim and a 23mm tire created a light bulb shaped profile. Needless to say, this is just not very efficient and leads to increased wind drag. Steve simply invented a solution and Hed's C2 technology was born. C2 technology has its maximum effect on clincher tires by solving the problem of the tires requiring extreme pressure to keep them from flopping over the rim during a turn. This high pressure also leads to deficiencies in cornering performance and comfort. By making the rim edge wider, C2 allows the tire to flow almost perfectly into the rim shape, ushering in a revolutionary step forward in aerodynamic performance. Although, the benefits of C2 design go even further. The wider tire mount also creates a larger contact patch with the road which distributes load better and lowers speed-sapping rolling resistance. All said, C2 technology improves aerodynamics, increases the road/tire contact patch for better cornering grip, decreases rolling resistance, and allows the wheel to be more comfortably ridden at a lower tire pressure. Not a bad improvement.

From Hed's website...

Thanks for the reply but doesn't answer my question at all. This HED info. implies a wider rim "relative" to tire width to eliminate the light bulb profile, but does not address both a wider rim and a wider tire. And that seems to be the question being asked in the OP, isn't it? As an example, if you end up putting a 28 mm tire on a 23 mm rim, is it any more aero? Kind of doubtful. There has to be more clarity to the "wider" definitions.

[John M]

or a 25 or 28c tire on an openpro. Tire width, volume and tire type makes far more difference than 2 or 3mm rim width, IMHO.

This is my experience.... 28mm tire, 75-80 psi (not problems as low as 60-65 psi for my 150 lb weight) on an aerohead rim = great ride

[Kontact]

Lots of stuff in this thread seems a little off.

Wide rims make 23mm tires ride differently than the same tire on narrow rims, but that doesn't mean that there is any advantage in putting 25s or 28s on a 23mm rim.

I haven't heard anything that implies that you can get away with lower pressures because your rim is wider.

The aerodynamics of a wide aero rim like a C2 with a 23mm rim are pretty decent. But an A23 is not an aero rim, and a 25mm tire on a C2 isn't any more aero than a 23mm tire on a 19mm rim.

23mm rims do the same thing that 20mm tires on 19mm aero rims do, but at lower pressures.

[Chance]

23mm rims do the same thing that 20mm tires on 19mm aero rims do, but at lower pressures.

Well yeah, except that from an aerodynamics point of view (setting aside ride and comfort differences as separate issues) it's still 15 to 20 percent wider overall, hence increasing frontal area. So unless the coefficient of drag is reduced substantially by the mere fact that it's bigger (assuming equal proportions) then the wider tire/rim combination will have a lot more drag. That was my point in asking for clarification.


BTW, in case it's not clear to you, this is agreeing with your post.

[echelon_john]

Wider rims enable lower pressure for two reasons. First, because the air volume for a given tire size will be larger on a wider rim, so the risk of pinch flats is lower in proportion with the greater volume.

Second, and related, the shape of the tire is less of a lightbulb, more of an upside down U, also reducing the risk of pinch flats as there is less tire hanging over the sidewall of the rim to pinch.

IMO any aerodynamic benefit is negligible and pales in comparison to the ride quality/comfort gains of wider rims.

[Chance]

Wider rims enable lower pressure for two reasons. First, because the air volume for a given tire size will be larger on a wider rim, so the risk of pinch flats is lower in proportion with the greater volume.



Don't follow why air volume inside tire/tube has much to do with any of the factors being discussed.:confused:

Agree with HED conclusion that wider rim changes tire contact patch, but that's due to geometry and essentially has nothing to do with air volume. We hear "volume" as a factor all the time but nobody has yet to explain how.

[Tandem Rider]

Try to think of air volume as the shock absorber. The bigger the shock absorber, the bigger the "hit" it will absorb before it bottoms out, or pinch flats in this case. Don't need a wide rim to test this theory.

I can see how a different shaped contact patch mightimprove rolling resistance and how a 23 tire on a wide rim could affect wind resistance, (these have been tested by people with skin in the game), lower air pressure nearly always improves comfort until the dreaded pinch flat happens anyway. Bigger air volume simply lets one run lower pressure before the flats occur.

I also am questioning the wisdom of grabbing numbers and performance from a 23 tire on a wide rim and applying them, untested, onto 28 tires on a wide rim.

Disclaimer: We run a wide rim on the back of our TT tandem with a 25 tire @135psi because it tested faster in a straight line, (PM vs speed) don't care about longevity or cornering.

[MadRocketSci]

Well yeah, except that from an aerodynamics point of view (setting aside ride and comfort differences as separate issues) it's still 15 to 20 percent wider overall, hence increasing frontal area. So unless the coefficient of drag is reduced substantially by the mere fact that it's bigger (assuming equal proportions) then the wider tire/rim combination will have a lot more drag. That was my point in asking for clarification.


BTW, in case it's not clear to you, this is agreeing with your post.

Cd will depend on what's going on at the tire/rim interface...if there is a smooth transition, then there is less recirculation back there. If you have recirculation means that the air has gained momentum in the forward direction...which from mr. newton tells us that your wheel has lost momentum in the forward direction => Cd increases.

[Chance]

Try to think of air volume as the shock absorber. The bigger the shock absorber, the bigger the "hit" it will absorb before it bottoms out, or pinch flats in this case. Don't need a wide rim to test this theory.



Sure, can think of it that way. Unfortunately for the most part that's not the way it works.;)

[Chance]

Cd will depend on what's going on at the tire/rim interface...if there is a smooth transition, then there is less recirculation back there. If you have recirculation means that the air has gained momentum in the forward direction...which from mr. newton tells us that your wheel has lost momentum in the forward direction => Cd increases.

Yes, and if you read my posts and also Kontact's, we were talking about comparable shapes. Like 20 mm tire on 19 mm rim versus 25 mm tire on 23 mm rim. Not sure what your post is addressing since it appears to be answering a question that's outside anything previously mentioned by either of us.

[Kontact]

Well yeah, except that from an aerodynamics point of view (setting aside ride and comfort differences as separate issues) it's still 15 to 20 percent wider overall, hence increasing frontal area. So unless the coefficient of drag is reduced substantially by the mere fact that it's bigger (assuming equal proportions) then the wider tire/rim combination will have a lot more drag. That was my point in asking for clarification.


BTW, in case it's not clear to you, this is agreeing with your post.

But smaller, higher pressure tires have a greater coefficient of friction, and none of the aero rim/tire combinations at 19mm were shaped to work together as well as the current rim/tire aero combos. So I'd question whether frontal area is a very large component of the total when making that comparison.


I think the volume thing is a factor because the wider rims reshape 23c tires into something that corners better. So if 23mm rims make tires work better while being more aero, not a lot downsides.

Personally, I can't see riding 475 gram rims when I can ride 385 gram semi aero rims and take my chances with real world aerodynamics vs. wind tunnel promises.

[Rueda Tropical]

Well yeah, except that from an aerodynamics point of view (setting aside ride and comfort differences as separate issues) it's still 15 to 20 percent wider overall, hence increasing frontal area. So unless the coefficient of drag is reduced substantially by the mere fact that it's bigger (assuming equal proportions) then the wider tire/rim combination will have a lot more drag. That was my point in asking for clarification.


BTW, in case it's not clear to you, this is agreeing with your post.

Just to put the contribution of aero wheels into perspective:

From http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/bikes-and-gear-features/revenge-nerds

Most people don't realize that a nonaero helmet creates four times the drag of a nonaero wheelset.

How you put your race number on matters more than having an aero wheel; today, we glued on our numbers to get them to fit flatter.

wearing gloves in a time trial will slow you down more than using a nonaero front wheel.

We've learned that your bike accounts for only 15 to 25 percent of your overall drag; 75 percent of how fast you go is determined by how your body gets in the way of the air.

The difference between 19mm and 23-25mm tire and aero wheel must be pretty insignificant in the big picture especially since the newer more advanced aero wheel sets are optimized for 23mm and are probably more aero then a last generation 19mm tire and wheel combo.

[Nelson99]

I only really noticed a problem running 25c tires when I tried to put a high volume 25c on a 19mm DT rim. That didn't work out very well. Comfortable, but sidewall folded and skittered through the corners. Very unnerving. I haven't ried those exact tires on an open-pro, but other 25's seem to run just fine on those rims.

[keppler]

I wanted to try a 23mm rim as well, since it would go on a stiff aluminum road bike, and I wanted to know if they would help soften the ride but still maintain high performance.

1. what rims with size are you using?

Hed C2 clincher 23mm wide, Alchemy hubs, CX-Ray spokes 24 F/28 R.

2. what tires and air pressure air you running?

Conti 4000S 90 psi F/R (bodyweight 180 lbs).

3. going a bit faster with less effort?

Have not noticed this at all.

4 Is ride a bit smoother due to tire size and lower air pressure?

Yes. I ran Campy Eurus wheels on the same bike, same tires and 90 psi F/R, the Eurus are noticably stiffer overall than the C2.

Now, having said all that, I managed to borrow a set of Ambrosio Nemesis wheels (Record hubs, 32/32 Wheelsmith spokes, 25mm Conti tubular tires) also at 90 psi F/R.

The ride was seriously better than with the C2 wheels. I doubt even going up to a 25mm tire on the C2 will come close to the better ride quality of the Nemesis wheels. If I didn't dislike the idea of gluing tires on a rim (I would do tape but get too many conflicting opinions about it) I would have a wheelset made asap and never go back to clinchers.

[oldpotatoe]

I wanted to try a 23mm rim as well, since it would go on a stiff aluminum road bike, and I wanted to know if they would help soften the ride but still maintain high performance.

1. what rims with size are you using?

Hed C2 clincher 23mm wide, Alchemy hubs, CX-Ray spokes 24 F/28 R.

2. what tires and air pressure air you running?

Conti 4000S 90 psi F/R (bodyweight 180 lbs).

3. going a bit faster with less effort?

Have not noticed this at all.

4 Is ride a bit smoother due to tire size and lower air pressure?

Yes. I ran Campy Eurus wheels on the same bike, same tires and 90 psi F/R, the Eurus are noticably stiffer overall than the C2.

Now, having said all that, I managed to borrow a set of Ambrosio Nemesis wheels (Record hubs, 32/32 Wheelsmith spokes, 25mm Conti tubular tires) also at 90 psi F/R.

The ride was seriously better than with the C2 wheels. I doubt even going up to a 25mm tire on the C2 will come close to the better ride quality of the Nemesis wheels. If I didn't dislike the idea of gluing tires on a rim (I would do tape but get too many conflicting opinions about it) I would have a wheelset made asap and never go back to clinchers.

Helmet ON, flak jacket ON........

Why dislike the idea of gluing tires on a tubular rim? It's easy, isn't messy, takes about 30 minutes...only down side is ya gotta let dry 24 hours....

And the ride is, IMHO, superior to wide rims/tires and tubeless......IMHO.

[keppler]

Helmet ON, flak jacket ON........

Why dislike the idea of gluing tires on a tubular rim? It's easy, isn't messy, takes about 30 minutes...only down side is ya gotta let dry 24 hours....

And the ride is, IMHO, superior to wide rims/tires and tubeless......IMHO.

I honestly haven't even bothered to try it. I know the guy I borrowed the Nemesis wheels from would be more than willing to show me. I've had a bunch of guys all tell me they only use tape (they race on it too), but I'm not sure whether I believe tape is safe enough compared to glue.

Regardless, I'm getting more keen on gettnig some Nemesis or Mavic Reflex rims built with Record hubs and good spokes. I can't put that amazing ride quality I experienced out of my head.

If I had the cash I'd just get a custom steel frame made, but that's into the future at some point. So the aluminum frame is sticking around for years yet. Besides, it's a very lightweight and perfect fitting frame, it's just too harsh to ride for long hours.

[teleguy57]

My wheels are A23s 32 3x, Hed C2s 32 3x and Nemesis 32 3x. Riding Open Pave CGs with latex tubes on the clinchers, and Veloflex Roubaixs on the tubulars.

I like all of them better than the Pave CG/latex combo on Kinlin xr270s. There is something about the wider profile and feeling connected (in a good way) to the road.

The A23s are more comfortable than the C2s, which makes sense when you look at the rim profiles. The Nemesis are nice, but I'm not convinced they're all that different from the wide clinchers. Some rides I think they ride better, others the Open Pave CGs feel the same.

They are all sensitive to tire pressure -- and some days I like them slightly firmer (95/100 fr/rr on the Veloflex, 90/95 on the Open Paves) and sometimes lower pressures on the clincher (80/85) seems better.

I'm still looking to migrate fully back to sewups (that's all I rode back in the 70s and 80s) but having a hard time swallowing the costs of high quality tubulars -- and I know the wider rims with good clinchers ride better than cheap sewups.

BTW: gluing sewups is easily learned, and relaxing to do.

[keppler]

I will add that I rode the C2's recently with around 80 psi, and they did come closer to the road feel of the Nemesis tubulars I rode. But I'm more comfortable running 90 psi F/R which makes for a stiffer/harsher ride than with the tubulars at the same psi.

I also found the bounce back over rocks and speed bumps (available the day I tested the tubulars) much nicer than the C2 wheels. Also the road buzz I usually feel through the aluminum bars and frame with the C2 over roads built with compacted gravel (lots of farm roads) was non-existent with the tubulars, the ride was much smoother. The tubulars ate up road cracks and crags much better, like I had a layer of sponge between the bike and the road.

[mike p]

I'll go one step further and say I'm not sure there's any advantage to wider in a race situation. Cross...yes. Paris-Roubaix....yes but everyday road racing I doubt there's any advantage and if there is it's minuscule. I really believe it to be a faddish concept cooked up to sell new wheels. Are wider rims and tires run at lower pressures more comfy? Of course. Faster? I'm not at all convinced.

Mike


I honestly think there is not enough difference between wheels
for mortals to notice fatigue or speed over a variable ride in the
real world of any significant length.

Next time i'm in a GC battle of seconds in a prologue or final TT,
I'll go with every aero advantage... until then, there is more drag
with my iPhone in my jersey pocket than i worry about my wheels.

On long rides, there is way more difference in my performance and
comfort between being on a 'good day' than any equipment makes.
Some fresh Assos bibs is the best money spent.

-g

[thwart]

I really believe it to be a faddish concept cooked up to sell new wheels.I don't.

The benefits in cornering (which I wasn't really expecting, actually) and the dampening of vibration and road shock are real.

IMHO.

[mike p]

I'm not saying I'm right your wrong, it's all pretty subjective after all. All I know is I rode a pair of C2's for a week and while more comfortable they were no faster in a normal crit or road race.

Mike

[jlwdm]

I'm not saying I'm right your wrong, it's all pretty subjective after all. All I know is I rode a pair of C2's for a week and while more comfortable they were no faster in a normal crit or road race.

Mike

Probably not faster, but do you really think you could tell a speed difference in a normal crit or road race?

Jeff

[mike p]

Nope......as I said it's all pretty subjective. I also ran some strava segments that I do all the time and could tell no difference. What does that prove? Nothing at all. I admit I'm going by feel as I assume most folks here are as I've got no way to scientifically prove one way or another. So from my non scientific test I conclude......no speed difference. Your results may vary.

Mike

Probably not faster, but do you really think you could tell a speed difference in a normal crit or road race?

Jeff

[keppler]

Just to add to my earlier posts; I did end up buying a set of Nemesis wheels with 25mm tubular tires. I won't be going back to clinchers or 23mm (or wider) rims. The ride is so above and beyond what I had that I now prefer riding my aluminum bike over my carbon one...:)

I now have the comfort I needed but still have the 'snap' of a stiff frame for climbing and sprints.

[oldpotatoe]

Just to add to my earlier posts; I did end up buying a set of Nemesis wheels with 25mm tubular tires. I won't be going back to clinchers or 23mm (or wider) rims. The ride is so above and beyond what I had that I now prefer riding my aluminum bike over my carbon one...:)

I now have the comfort I needed but still have the 'snap' of a stiff frame for climbing and sprints.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCFCeJTEzNU