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View Full Version : What do you say to a freind who has crashed 4 times this year


Bruce K
08-22-2012, 05:35 PM
I am really at a loss. One of my riding freinds, a 31 year old woman, has been riding "seriously" now for about 2+ seasons. Last year she took up cyclocross (Women's Cat 4) and podiumed in every race except when she had a mechanical - 6/9 or something like that.

She has been doing some Cat 4 road events and has podiumed several times with one win.

She is obviously pretty fast and a very good climber.

The problem comes in group rides with more than about 3 or 4 people. She has crashed 4 times so far this season. The first one was fairly minor, the second one she ran into the back of me while I was stopped, the third she clipped the wheel of the guy in front of her and went down hard (busted helmet, mild concussion), last night she crashed again (this time she bashed up her Serotta Fierte).

We have talked about focus in non-racing situations - repeatedly. We have talked about spacing, anticipation, predictability, and all the usual stuff.

I am truly at a loss as to what to say to her now. She is very bright, a bio medical researcher. She is well educated. She just seems to have this ADD going on in bigger group non-race situations.

Ideas and suggestions are really welcome as I don't want to see her get hurt.

BK

slidey
08-22-2012, 05:48 PM
Sometimes it's the ego we bring into the equation. If you're a mentalist like I am, then you too psych yourself up a Cat 2 mountain by saying things like - "Oh come on, you've done a bloody HC thingy...that was 9 miles long and remember how many times you felt like quitting, but just didn't. If you could even be 70% of what you were on that hill, you'll be sailing up this one...no biggie", and then are totally winded on the switchbacks of this seemingly small hill.

Similarly, there are people who keep telling themselves...this is just a group ride, nothing to prove here...I'm better than these guys here, I'm a proven podium steed! You can see how this can quite easily provide you a false sense of security, which you sometimes need before a race/tough training day, but can mislead you to concussions and what not as well.

My advice would be to point out that here today, gone tomorrow is the truth of the sport. Any moment you disrespect a terrain, ride, etc to allow yourself a break in concentration...you're asking for trouble. Concentration is everything...you might be blessed with legs of steel but without concentration you might as well be in spin class. Smarter a person is, or the more demanding their job is from the mental point of view, the harder it is for them to do it again when out having fun, like riding, etc.

Oh, and for a quick-fix solution...maybe a caffeine shot (in whatever chosen form or dosage) before a group ride might help gather the focus.

rwsaunders
08-22-2012, 05:49 PM
The strongest rider in our group is also the most dangerous to ride with. He drifts, swerves, stops without warning...you know the drill. I've just learned to let him go his merry way and to coverse at rest stops. He's a really nice guy and smart too, but as you say, he has riding ADD. Wish I could help.

rice rocket
08-22-2012, 05:52 PM
Perhaps she still has latent effects from the concussion?

It took me a good 6 months to be able to say I was symptom free from a mild concussion (my first as well). Maybe have her lay off the group rides in the mean time?

Fixed
08-22-2012, 05:54 PM
I knew a young lawyer was the same way very talented lady she got it , after a few crashes and moved to cat 2 in two years
Cheers :)

Sandy
08-22-2012, 05:54 PM
Perhaps suggest to her that she either intentionally ride off the back or out in front. The two accidents you elaborated on seemed to occur because she was too close to the rider in front of her. In group rides, I think cyclists often ride too close to riders in front. Unless one is confident in what the riders in front will do, best choice is to ride off the back anyway (or in front).

If she is strong and fast for the group ride, then try to get her to ride in front or up front, as the less in front of her the better it seems to be (unless she won't even focus when up front).

At this point, you should probably come down a bit hard on her before she and/or another cyclist really gets hurt.


Safety Serotta Steel Sandy

miguel
08-22-2012, 05:56 PM
"stop being an idiot, idiot. start riding the rollers every night"
thats what you say.

Bob Ross
08-22-2012, 05:56 PM
nm

beeatnik
08-22-2012, 05:59 PM
It's not what one should say to someone in that position, it's what that person should say to themselves. "Should I continue to endanger the lives of others in the pursuit of a hobby." No shame in riding the bike paths solo.

jr59
08-22-2012, 06:00 PM
What do you say to her????

REALLY?

How about; NO YOU CAN NOT RIDE WITH THIS GROUP!

The mild approach seems to be not working.
Just because someone is quick/fast on a bike, does not make them safe.

What are you going to say, if she wrecks and really hurts someone else?

She is not learning to ride in a group because she doesn't want or need to!
Because someone has not told her no you can't! You are a danger to the group!

harryblack
08-22-2012, 06:00 PM
hmmmm... why haven't her bike handling skills improved with the road races, is it small women's fields? if she's game you can do the usual bike handling drills on grass just to get her head focused on THAT...

also re: climbing, do you know if she's a strong, technically able (not just daredevil) descender?

somehow she's gotta bring the understanding that there's NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN STAYING UPRIGHT to the fore...

what were the circumstances of last night's crash?

if ya'll are friends with her some hardcore (but affable) single paceline (formation, not bulletin board) riding in controlled environment might help. (i'm not a proponent of the old school fascist paceline drills.)

GOOD LUCK! i hope you can do something before a more serious injury teaches another lesson.


I am really at a loss. One of my riding freinds, a 31 year old woman, has been riding "seriously" now for about 2+ seasons. Last year she took up cyclocross (Women's Cat 4) and podiumed in every race except when she had a mechanical - 6/9 or something like that.

She has been doing some Cat 4 road events and has podiumed several times with one win.

She is obviously pretty fast and a very good climber.

The problem comes in group rides with more than about 3 or 4 people. She has crashed 4 times so far this season. The first one was fairly minor, the second one she ran into the back of me while I was stopped, the third she clipped the wheel of the guy in front of her and went down hard (busted helmet, mild concussion), last night she crashed again (this time she bashed up her Serotta Fierte).

We have talked about focus in non-racing situations - repeatedly. We have talked about spacing, anticipation, predictability, and all the usual stuff.

I am truly at a loss as to what to say to her now. She is very bright, a bio medical researcher. She is well educated. She just seems to have this ADD going on in bigger group non-race situations.

Ideas and suggestions are really welcome as I don't want to see her get hurt.

BK

djg21
08-22-2012, 06:03 PM
I am really at a loss. One of my riding freinds, a 31 year old woman, has been riding "seriously" now for about 2+ seasons. Last year she took up cyclocross (Women's Cat 4) and podiumed in every race except when she had a mechanical - 6/9 or something like that.

She has been doing some Cat 4 road events and has podiumed several times with one win.

She is obviously pretty fast and a very good climber.

The problem comes in group rides with more than about 3 or 4 people. She has crashed 4 times so far this season. The first one was fairly minor, the second one she ran into the back of me while I was stopped, the third she clipped the wheel of the guy in front of her and went down hard (busted helmet, mild concussion), last night she crashed again (this time she bashed up her Serotta Fierte).

We have talked about focus in non-racing situations - repeatedly. We have talked about spacing, anticipation, predictability, and all the usual stuff.

I am truly at a loss as to what to say to her now. She is very bright, a bio medical researcher. She is well educated. She just seems to have this ADD going on in bigger group non-race situations.

Ideas and suggestions are really welcome as I don't want to see her get hurt.

BK
Take up triathlon?

Bruce K
08-22-2012, 06:19 PM
That's the really perplexing part.

She has VERY good bike handling skills. She has bedn to handling clunics, race clinics, etc.

She is FINE in groups of 3 or 4 Paceline and all.

It is when the group is in the 8 to 15 range that the stuff seems to happen.

I do not know the circumstances from last night - hoping to talk to her soon.

Thanks for the input. Tough love may be the only way.

BK

Jaq
08-22-2012, 06:33 PM
Start a pool.

firerescuefin
08-22-2012, 06:41 PM
Have to agree with JR59 on this one. You're not riding solo...and other's lives/health are on the line. Check in.....or you're out.

bigreen505
08-22-2012, 07:00 PM
It's not about focus, it's about being present. It's easy to focus on the wrong things.

CNY rider
08-22-2012, 07:46 PM
That's the really perplexing part.

She has VERY good bike handling skills.
BK

I don't see how this can possibly be true.
She's wrecked 4 times in one calendar year.
I would tell her to work her issues out before showing up for any more groups.

As an aside, I don't ride with people like her under any circumstances.
Life's too short. I can have plenty of fun riding by myself.
I ride with manet all the time cause I know what the guy is going to do, where he's going to be, and don't have to worry about random stupidity.

Bruce K
08-22-2012, 08:11 PM
Watching her race cross I can say the women can handle her bike in tricky terrain, in traffic, etc.

We are all convinced that it's a focus issue - we just don't know what to do with her any more

Fortunately it's only been her to hit the deck ..... So far. But no one wants to be the first

BK

rain dogs
08-22-2012, 08:54 PM
Sounds like a perfect time for a Sandwich (Compliment-Harsh Critique-Compliment)

If I were facing this situation I'd say something like this:

"You know _Name__, you've progressed so much as cycling it really impresses me, Six podiums, already. It's incredible. (compliment)

However, you've hit the deck four times this year riding in the group and nerves are starting to creep in... people are kinda getting worried for themselves, but mostly for you. It's becoming concerning riding with you in a group. Group safety is all of our responsibility and we want to keep riding with you. (Criticism + light ultimatum)

You obviously can handle your bike amazingly, I've seen it. You've very adept at (Skill #1), (Skill #2), (Skill #3). (Compliments)

_Name__, what are your thoughts?

Be straight up. No BS.

FlashUNC
08-22-2012, 09:10 PM
Tough love at this point. We've all been called out for the dumb stuff we did learning the sport and riding in a group.

Public shaming certainly kicked my butt into gear. Whether its a hand on a hip in a group ride, getting pulled out of the pace line or just being flat out told you can't ride with a group, you need to do something to shake her up a bit. Because clearly the gentle suggestions and hitting the deck don't seem to be working...

charliedid
08-22-2012, 09:15 PM
Ever consider running?

On a serious note: Just bring it up to her in a very direct way.

Too much at risk not to.

slidey
08-22-2012, 09:17 PM
In some ways, I almost wish she had terrible bike handling skills. Working on bike handling skills is something whose progress you can gauge, but when it's focus...well, not being in a pile-up doesn't mean you were focused, and hence hard to gauge. The only way I see you getting somewhere with your friend is telling her that safety is paramount.

From a personal safety standpoint, a group ride is not the worst place to lose your focus, but getting used to riding lacking concentration can be disastrous when descending solo, etc. And after the self preservation pep talk, it might help to add that riders around her will eventually know she's risky and will pull out the race-day tactics to make sure she doesn't interfere with their ride...i.e. elbows out, shoulder bumping, etc, which isn't something you're expecting on a group ride, usually.

Watching her race cross I can say the women can handle her bike in tricky terrain, in traffic, etc.

We are all convinced that it's a focus issue - we just don't know what to do with her any more

Fortunately it's only been her to hit the deck ..... So far. But no one wants to be the first

BK

Bruce K
08-22-2012, 09:19 PM
I like that approach a lot

It sounds like the kind of stuff she would respond to

Thanks

BK

ultraman6970
08-22-2012, 09:36 PM
Hmm... this is a tough call becuase you dont want to hurt her feelings and looks like you are afraid of going out with her too.

There are a few details, you say the problem is when she is with a lot of people, those groups go in pairs talking or is a mess like crazy monkeys going up and down, changing lines and more than an organized group of riders is a conglomerate of people riding? Asking because if sincerely is a conglomerate of people then you have more problems, not only her.

I dont go group riding here in the area and I ride alone or suck wheels to loners because the group rides are just conglomerates that is just call to an accident, last friday a car was waiting for the einsteins to pass around him just to make his life easier (30 to 40 riders) and half of the guys couldn't figure it out what the guy wanted, let them pass in front of him. SO half stuck in the back of the car, other ones around the door area in both sides of the car looking at the stars. Just an example of what is going on.

IMO w/o seeing her riding is hard to know what is wrong with the girl, well 4 accidents, and from what you say were just dumb accidents that do not happen everysingle day.

What I would do in the big groups is to take over the group and force them to ride in pairs... that will help her confidence and will help to educate the other guys how to ride safely. Believe me I have seen many weird stuff in my life from guys tangling their handlebars together (ouch!!!) to a moron that in the track after the sprint went straight in straight line over the banks in the begining of the curve and hit the metallic barriers (one week in coma). So w/o seeing her is hard to know what is wrong with her, some people just have bad luck but maybe she is just looking at the stars or really dont have confidence over the bike even thought looks like she has.

I understand you, good luck with the talking but i would try to observe her closely for a few days to figure it out. A good solution is just ride at her side all the time?

Fixed
08-22-2012, 09:48 PM
Don't take this wrong just grasping at straws
Does she get enough attention at home ?
I know sometimes wires can get crossed even with smart people
Cheers

Bruce K
08-22-2012, 10:07 PM
The group is generally a fairly well organized single or double paceline. Most of us have been riding together for several years between 2 and 5 times each week on rides from 25 to up to 100 miles. We all know each other pretty well and account or adapt to each others habits whether good or bad.

Most of us think that it's a focus thing with her because we've all seen her in race mode in packs and pacelines and it's like a totally different rider.

I mean, how do you see a stopped rider, have plenty of room, and just not grab the brakes soon enough or take evasive action fast enough to avoid running into the back of the stopped bike?

Other than last night, which I have no idea exactly what happened yet, all the other crashes seem to be brain cramps.

There is definitely no issue with "going out". We are both married to different spouses and she is young enough to be my kid. It's just that we are good freinds and I want to keep that part even though I know she needs a real lecture before something REALLY bad happens to her or someone else (or me!).

BK

eippo1
08-22-2012, 10:11 PM
Hmm, this is a tough one. I like the sandwich idea with perhaps a suggestion that she focuses on pace lines for a while while riding in group setting as they are more stimulating. Also ask her if she has been looking at her computer at these times.

I know of a guy that used to get bored on group rides and sort of zone out at the numbers on his computer. This of course led to some emergency braking when he figured out he was drifting up. His solution was to tape over his comp for a while and while on group rides in general. Worked well as the drifting stopped when the distraction was removed.

jds108
08-22-2012, 11:07 PM
Sorry if I missed it, but what does she think the source of the problem is? Or does she think there is no problem and it's just been a run of bad luck or something? Does she recognize that these accidents are due to her own actions?

ofcounsel
08-22-2012, 11:23 PM
Why do you have to fix her? She's an adult.

If you don't like the way she rides, don't ride with her. Pretty simple.

if she asks why you don't want to ride with her, explain to her honestly that she's a danger to herself and others. And you want no part of that.

54ny77
08-22-2012, 11:32 PM
How about, "My friend, do you realize that the 4 times you've crashed this year are directly traceable to deep-seated resentment you have towards your parents? You're rebelling in a self-destructive manner now for the time you got grounded for staying out past curfew to see Rick Springfield. Stop the insanity, please. Now go wipe off that fred mark on your calf and let's get to riding, shall we?"

martinrjensen
08-22-2012, 11:32 PM
Pretty close to what I'm thinking. Just tell her that she doesn't appear to pay enough attention in group rides. You can ride with her if you want but just assume the worst and give yourself an out. You don't need to tell her what she needs to do because (it's not rocket science), she will figure it out all by herself. All she has to do is pay attention, nothing more. If she can't figure it out, she will ask. If she asks tell her what she has to do.
Why do you have to fix her? She's an adult.

If you don't like the way she rides, don't ride with her. Pretty simple.

if she asks why you don't want to ride with her, explain to her honestly that she's a danger to herself and others. And you want no part of that.

slidey
08-22-2012, 11:54 PM
haha...i knew this would be misunderstood. I gather ultraman meant going out, in the sense, going outside riding with her. :)


There is definitely no issue with "going out". We are both married to different spouses and she is young enough to be my kid. It's just that we are good freinds and I want to keep that part even though I know she needs a real lecture before something REALLY bad happens to her or someone else (or me!).

BK

rustychisel
08-23-2012, 12:21 AM
Pretty close to what I'm thinking. Just tell her that she doesn't appear to pay enough attention in group rides. You can ride with her if you want but just assume the worst and give yourself an out. You don't need to tell her what she needs to do because (it's not rocket science), she will figure it out all by herself. All she has to do is pay attention, nothing more. If she can't figure it out, she will ask. If she asks tell her what she has to do.

Yeah pretty much this.

Bruce, like it or not you have to step in, or this well end only one way [badly].

Some people will not recognise or amend their own behaviour.

The most dangerous guy I've ever ridden with was ultra-competitive, but just twitchy and dumb in group rides. He kept on decking it, once during an organised event when he - on his own - lost it going around a easy left hander on a flat road. The trouble was the guy behind him flipped over the top. Consider our day spoiled as we determined who was going to tell his wife he'd crashed again, organised bike retrieval, helped the other guy, marshalled the road, waiting for ambulance collection, well, you get the idea.

Another time he lead me into road furniture from a 45kmh paceline, that cost me a collar bone.

Six months after that we were riding in a group of 12 and I noticed he was skittish to heck. 5 minutes down the road he clipped the wheel in front of him and managed not to crash... so I gave him the talk... dangerous behaviour, paying attention... 30 minutes later he clips another guys wheel. This time he goes down, hard - straight down. Busted pelvis, 3 broken ribs, humerus.

Well, in a way that sorted that problem, though I'd really not spend the time loading people into an ambulance if it can be avoided.

I dunno if this woman is a good bike handler or just looks like she knows what she's doing, but the issue is mental, not physical. I'm going to suggest - 100% that she's 'an achiever' and views group rides as close proximity jousting and an opportunity to get combatative. They're not. Tell her to sort it.

Ti Designs
08-23-2012, 01:23 AM
She has VERY good bike handling skills. She has been to handling clinics, race clinics, etc.

Time to rethink the one day clinic. So she takes the bike handling clinic, maybe they cover wheel touching, probably not. Then three months later she overlaps a wheel. As she's heading to the ground she's thinking "wait, I know what to do here - we covered this in the..."

BobC
08-23-2012, 06:43 AM
huh. Not really sure what the debate is about.

She is not possibly going to take someone down in a group ride, she is LIKELY to. Doing the simple math then, it is a matter of time before it happens.

Consider this if you are still unsure. Put in a group ride with your son or daughter. Then tell me what you would do.

oldguy00
08-23-2012, 07:24 AM
Note to self - Don't ride with Bruce's group. :)

The crashes you describe sounds like she simply has slow reflexes?
I'd tell her that she needs to stay at the back of the group for a while, until she has built up more time following wheels.

Ti Designs
08-23-2012, 08:34 AM
Note to self - Don't ride with Bruce's group.

That's the excuse that lots of people here use for not riding with other people - all those other people are dangerous. How many people have read this thread and questioned their own bike handling skills?


Yes, you.

oldguy00
08-23-2012, 08:46 AM
That's the excuse that lots of people here use for not riding with other people - all those other people are dangerous. How many people have read this thread and questioned their own bike handling skills?


Yes, you.

I have no idea how I compare to everyone else. No doubt I am not a pro like you. Yes, you.
All I can say is that I have been racing since 1990 and I have never, not once, caused a crash.
I've crashed once in the past 10 years. It was a triathlete trying to sprint past our paceline on a rainy day while going over train tracks....he slid right across them and took out our entire group.
I actually posted about it here, about liability, about the hardware I permanently have installed in my wrist because that idiot didn't know how to ride.

carlucci1106
08-23-2012, 08:48 AM
... with the compliment sandwich advice so methodically imbued.

What's nice about this approach is that it seems like you respect this woman enough to want to make her feel appreciated and welcome. So this is all the more reason to save her from making a harmful mistake. Safety should be a given on group rides. I'm sure worrying about a potential accident detracts from yours and others' enjoyment of the ride.

There ARE probably external factors at work. But don't delve into these unless she volunteers to talk about it. I would make a firm statement, but it is too early for ultimatums IMHO. Just ask her if everything's alright.

Letting her know you are looking out for her well-being too will be key to her not getting defensive.

Hope this helps

FlashUNC
08-23-2012, 09:06 AM
I have no idea how I compare to everyone else. No doubt I am not a pro like you. Yes, you.
All I can say is that I have been racing since 1990 and I have never, not once, caused a crash.
I've crashed once in the past 10 years. It was a triathlete trying to sprint past our paceline on a rainy day while going over train tracks....he slid right across them and took out our entire group.
I actually posted about it here, about liability, about the hardware I permanently have installed in my wrist because that idiot didn't know how to ride.

Sometimes you are your own idiot and need an elbow rebuilt.

harryblack
08-23-2012, 09:44 AM
Bruce, I've been thinking a bit more about this...

Is there any commonality to the TIMES of day your friend has crashed?

Assuming her races are all Sat/Sun morn... Just a thought if she's semi-spacing towards end of day etc.

Also, if she rides with cyclometer, gps, or power meter I'd encourage her NOT to, at least on group rides.

oldpotatoe
08-23-2012, 10:25 AM
"stop being an idiot, idiot. start riding the rollers every night"
thats what you say.

you belong in portland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portlandia_(TV_series)

Fixed
08-23-2012, 10:42 AM
I have no idea how I compare to everyone else. No doubt I am not a pro like you. Yes, you.
All I can say is that I have been racing since 1990 and I have never, not once, caused a crash.
I've crashed once in the past 10 years. It was a triathlete trying to sprint past our paceline on a rainy day while going over train tracks....he slid right across them and took out our entire group.
I actually posted about it here, about liability, about the hardware I permanently have installed in my wrist because that idiot didn't know how to ride.

I like oldguy never caused a crash I have been in a few unfortunately
I liked a few wheels that i would ride near and others I would try to avoid
Cheers

Kirk Pacenti
08-23-2012, 11:08 AM
...but I would say... "It's OK. If you don't crash a few times a year, you're probably not going fast enough!" ;)

Maybe that's the mountain biker in me? I've only crashed on the road a few times in my life... And I would gladly hit the dirt 100 times, before going down on the road just once.

Cheers,
KP

merlinmurph
08-23-2012, 01:19 PM
Would you treat the situation differently if it was a guy?

Just wondering....

Bob Loblaw
08-23-2012, 01:27 PM
It's not all Bruce's responsibility. Every group has its dons, the fast, experienced guys. Someone, or someones, needs to talk to her, not at a later time, but right when it happens, in the middle of the ride. And it will actually have more impact if it's NOT Bruce or anyone else she knows. Pull up alongside and say, "That almost took out half the peloton. Never half wheel. Keep your head up and pay attention." or whatever is appropriate. Give her a few chances to learn and mend her ways.

Some people are receptive and learn. Some people can't be taught, and they need to be uninvited from the ride and given to understand the reasons why. Early on when I was a junior, I got that treatment, the firm hand on the shoulder and a few well chosen words. I still live by much of that advice, and pass it on to others.

It's not easy, but in the long run everyone wins.

BL

Bruce K
08-23-2012, 03:47 PM
Murph - No difference. Freinds are freinds and I would react the same for anyone I want to keep riding with. But it is a legitimate question.

It turns out Tuesday night (#4) had a little more to the story and appears to be a little bit different. Large group shop ride with folks riding an up and down pace with a couple of newbies. Somebody touched somebody and went down taking several riders with them. She was the last one of the group into the melee, endoing over the pileup landing flat on her back.

One guy had an open fracture of his collarbone. The rest just some scrapes and bruises.

We've had a long chat today and I hope she gets it and soon.

Thanks for the input.

BK

jr59
08-23-2012, 04:13 PM
Bruce,

You could always make her sweep the ride.

Be the last one in the paceline, her chance of hurting anyone else goes down a bit.

I hope she works this out. But heck if I would ride anywhere near her.

But there again, most every one wants to draft off me!

bambam
08-23-2012, 05:02 PM
Give her a nickname like "Crash". When she ask why tell her because of 4 crashes in a year. Tell her if she wants to lose the name go 6 month without a crash.

On another note, I'm not a racer but in races focus on the finish line seems to be the thing in cross races and some road races. I agree with the comments about getting rid of computers, GPS and HR monitors.

But one other thing.
Could she be crashing because her head is down most of the time?
Maybe she just needs to look further down the road and not just the wheel in front of her.

You could also mention don't out ride your braking distance.

Regards,
BamBam
(name because early on I had a tedancy to wreck twice within 2 weeks on occasion, and once when I wrecked I did a little double bounce. But I am happy to say that was a long time ago, but I still got the name)

illuminaught
08-23-2012, 05:19 PM
I'd say something... honest and direct.

OR

schedule an intervention.

smead
08-23-2012, 05:42 PM
3 outta the 4 accidents you describe sound very much like a decent rider trying to ride over his/her head in a group and riding recklessly in order to "stay on" at all costs .. When you ride like that, you run in to people, clip em, etc.. If she's that strong, she can back off and not worry abuot getting dropped.

cnighbor1
08-23-2012, 06:17 PM
Prehaps her depth perception is off just a bit. Mind is and I leave say 2 feet when drafting or just riding behind others And I don't race. In a race that can't be done thruout total race. So maybe have hers checked

sevencyclist
08-23-2012, 08:44 PM
That's the excuse that lots of people here use for not riding with other people - all those other people are dangerous. How many people have read this thread and questioned their own bike handling skills?


Yes, you.

That is why I ride alone. Well, actually it's because I can't keep up with others, so I ended up alone anyways.:)

merckx
08-24-2012, 07:02 AM
When a cyclist is at her physical limit, or close to it, she will be more vulnerable to making mistakes. I've seen this in all sport, and specifically cycling. Perhaps the group ride is testing her physical limits and it is at the expense of her reflexes and decision making faculties? I've been in some really challenging road races, and when at the end of my teather, didn't give a crap if I made mistakes. I was just focused on surviving. Good luck!

Bruce K
08-24-2012, 08:30 AM
Nope, the group rides are where she is generally cruising / working well below her limits.

As I've said in small groups (<6) she's fine. It seems to be the large groups where she has had her issues.

We had "the talk" the other day so it's now fingers crossed but I think she is going to take herself out of the larger weekend rides, especially as cross season ramps up.

BK

Fixed
08-24-2012, 08:55 AM
How about cross racing for you friend ,sounds like more fun anyway IMHO
Cheers :)

oldpotatoe
08-24-2012, 09:41 AM
I am really at a loss. One of my riding freinds, a 31 year old woman, has been riding "seriously" now for about 2+ seasons. Last year she took up cyclocross (Women's Cat 4) and podiumed in every race except when she had a mechanical - 6/9 or something like that.

She has been doing some Cat 4 road events and has podiumed several times with one win.

She is obviously pretty fast and a very good climber.

The problem comes in group rides with more than about 3 or 4 people. She has crashed 4 times so far this season. The first one was fairly minor, the second one she ran into the back of me while I was stopped, the third she clipped the wheel of the guy in front of her and went down hard (busted helmet, mild concussion), last night she crashed again (this time she bashed up her Serotta Fierte).

We have talked about focus in non-racing situations - repeatedly. We have talked about spacing, anticipation, predictability, and all the usual stuff.

I am truly at a loss as to what to say to her now. She is very bright, a bio medical researcher. She is well educated. She just seems to have this ADD going on in bigger group non-race situations.

Ideas and suggestions are really welcome as I don't want to see her get hurt.

BK

Any chance her eyesight isn't great? needs glasses or has depth perception issues?