Is this frame too small?

[yzfrr11]

What do you guys think of this frame size? There is a lot of seatpost showing. Should the rider have selected a larger frame size?

[Serpico]

pettachi's bike

[CalfeeFly]

You need to find a top notch store to fit you. Only they could tell you. A different stem etc. could make a huge difference. Also without a fit maybe you have your seat too high.

Good luck.

[e-RICHIE]

take my word - in 2 months he'll be on a colnago.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Sounds like a loaded question to me. :D

[e-RICHIE]

i think the choice of bars is telling;
the owner is, er, a REAL pro.

[Fixed]

Bro looks like a sprinters setup. cheers :beer:

[Big Dan]

You need to find a top notch store to fit you. Only they could tell you. A different stem etc. could make a huge difference. Also without a fit maybe you have your seat too high.

Good luck.

Are you serious??
Well maybe he needs a Brooks saddle...... :confused:

[saab2000]

If that guy weren't a complete tool he would be World Champ....

Get real. That bike represents all that is RIGHT about racing bikes. Well, except for the wavy fork.

High seat all the way back. Low, long stem. Does he win races? Yeah, he's pretty fast.

Notice how that bike and the other "racing"bikes in the various photo galleries on the 'net have almost nothing in common. Yet I don't think he is complaining about back pain after 300 km and outsprinting everyone in San Remo. Coincidence? I guess not.

[Cadence230]

No.

[bostondrunk]

Here is a better question....
What is it about a pro rider's body that makes them able to ride a setup like that? Is it a huge amount of flexibility in the hips? Long arms and femurs? I mean, for most of us complete amatures, it wouldn't matter what shape we got in, we wouldn't be able to ride a setup like that.

[eddief]

around. He's not asking the questions for himself and gives no details on the rider. A photo of a bike is a photo of a bike.

[Argos]

I would think if we spent 40 hours a week in that position, it would become comfortable..... Well, maybe not right away.

I do think there are significant mile per week milestones that allow the body to function differently. Thes levels differ per person, but I am physically different if I am spending more then 8 hrs a week in the saddle. Then again as I go above 14-15, I notice other changes.

SHoot me down if I am wrong, but we are adaptive and the demands involved in this at the sporting level are extreme.

[e-RICHIE]

Here is a better question....
What is it about a pro rider's body that makes them able to ride a setup like that? Is it a huge amount of flexibility in the hips? Long arms and femurs? I mean, for most of us complete amatures, it wouldn't matter what shape we got in, we wouldn't be able to ride a setup like that.

you answered your own question; ride for pay, race 120 days
a year, get stuff for free, see the world. you're body will soon adapt.

ps that scorcese/dylan thing on pbs rocks my world.
that cat is without peer.

[JohnS]

ps that scorcese/dylan thing on pbs rocks my world.
that cat is without peer.
Just think how far he could have gone if he'd had a voice. :D

[e-RICHIE]

Just think how far he could have gone if he'd had a voice. :D


wha
you don't understand lithuanian?

[JohnS]

wha
you don't understand lithuanian?
I thought it was Hibbingese? :confused:

[Peter]

Just because the owner is fast doesn't mean his bike is set up properly.

Maybe he'd be a better climber if he could get his bars higher. Or maybe he'd be a better sprinter with higher bars.

You don't see his "position" beating Lance's "position", therefore Lance's more upright position MUST be better, right?!

Yes; in my opinion his seat/stem differential is too great.

[e-RICHIE]

i wouldn't second pettachi's position.
he's bred for his gig, and lance for his.

[Fixed]

i wouldn't second pettachi's position.
he's bred for his gig, and lance for his.Amen bro. :beer:cheers

[e-RICHIE]

you dig dylan, right?

[fiamme red]

I usually hate documentaries, but this one held my attention. It was fascinating.

[e-RICHIE]

i thought it was a rockumentary, if you will.

[Fixed]

bro since the sixties often copied never duplicated what can be said. .cheers :beer:

[csb]

you dig dylan, right?

i could go for a little of this: http://www.all-pictures-photos.com/images/joan-baez/joan-baez-007-img.jpg
then + now.

[lnomalley]

is the frame too small for what? how do you size a bike sans rider? i could post a picture of a pair of empty shoes and ask you the same (lame) question.

[shinomaster]

Two woman at work today both said I looked like a young Bob Dylan. Then tonight the rocker chick that cut my hair said the same thing...I was at first insulted..then flattered..now i'm just intoxicated.

I think This Pinarello owner would be a good candidate for a custom Serotta? Am I right boys and girls??? Colorado concept tubing?? hah hah ha...... :rolleyes:

[yim]

How about this!

The lenght of the seat post is about the same as my bike's seat tube (49c-c)!

[shinomaster]

He has leggs like Reggie Lewis and a toso like a 10 year old girl.

[Argos]

For those that do not know, this second photo is the guy, and the bike he used to beat the hour record. He is the new World Hour Record holder.


And Peter:

Maybe he'd be a better climber if he could get his bars higher. Or maybe he'd be a better sprinter with higher bars.

You don't see his "position" beating Lance's "position", therefore Lance's more upright position MUST be better, right?!

You said this in jest, right?

I could not tell if you were being sly or not, but as e-richie said, this boy is all High Octane. THis is Ale-Jet's ride. You are not calling him a slow sprinter, he walks away from people. He walks away from the best.

And comparing it to Lance's position? Aside from everything else wrong with this statement, no teo people have the same position because no two people have the same fitness, flexability, goals, etc. lance has openly said he has a bad back. And if you watch some of his "chasing Lance" or "Road to the Tour" he has actually hinted that he's pretty messed up. Neck, hips, age, aches and pains. I would imagine his position to be MUCH different the Alessandro's because Ale is in better shape (in regards to injuries), as well as being a much different rider.

A good portion of the Pro Peleton has saddle to bar differences that visually you may think are extreme, but wrong, no. These guys are at this extreme of bike racing.

[jpw]

What do you guys think of this frame size? There is a lot of seatpost showing. Should the rider have selected a larger frame size?
Are you the rider?

[Dr. Doofus]

that bike looks fine with ale jet on it

lance's bike looks fine with lance on it

my bike looks fine with me on it

position is the product of flexibility, strength, skeletal proportions, and lifestyle, in that order

the last one is the rub -- doof and I are six foot 1/2 inch, 160, 9% fat now in the off-season, flexible enough to get our chin flat *under* the kneescaps while doing the "bend and touch your toes" thingie, strong enough in the core to do 25 crunches with the incline jacked all the way up, and a 15-pound medicine ball above our head, and do all sorts of wacky pilates and swiss-ball type stuff that makes the instrcutor ooh and ahh

but doof still can't ride more than 9.2cm of drop, or a reach longer than 56 (saddle tip to bar center).

on weekends, the bike feels too short in this setup

on weekdays, after sitting in a chair, standing, doing the teacher thing, the bike feels like its set up too long.

if doof and I just rested and rode, one of us would probably ride more drop and a 130 stem...but it ain't happenin

doof and I love you and all of your bikes including the impending Meivici's with 2cm of drop and 22cm head tubes. if the position meets the riders flexibility, strength, proportions, and lifestyle (what you have to do all dang day affects how you can sit on a bike), its a good position*



* just get a proper touring bike rather than a "race bike" with some wack-*** geo so it looks "cool" and fulfills your fantasies while putting you in a position that a french-fit proper level top-tube bike you put you on anyway.....

[yim]

For those that do not know, this second photo is the guy, and the bike he used to beat the hour record. He is the new World Hour Record holder.



Czech rider Ondrej Sosenka.

[Argos]

Doof,

Perhaps you'd be more flexable on your frame if the two of you didn't try to ride it at the same time. :D

[Chris]

The latest training book that I read had an interesting section on fit. The author (Jelly Belly's team physician and cycling coach) suggested that saddle to bar drop is essentially a product of two things; core strength and available room. He puts a chart in there that basically says that if you can stay in a modified push-up position on your elbows for less than a minute, then there should be minimal distance between the two. 1-2 minutes and you have a deeper range of drop. Finally, if you can stay in that position for 2 minutes (go ahead and try it, your coworkers won't care) then you should have a drop as far as possible without compromising your breathing. This is obviously for racers so I don't want to get into an argument about the majority of the riding public. But as it has been pointed out, Ale-Jet is at the extreme of racers and that position probably suits him just fine. Essentially, the guy races 1K of a race (I know I am simplifying things). The rest of the time he is guarded incessently by his team from the wind and poor position. I would imagine that he is in his drops less than 5K of an entire race. The rest of the time he is on his hoods. Therefore it likely benefits him significantly to be able to get that low for the sprint. Let's not forget that these guys are pushing 40mph. Aerodynamics begin to become an issue at 16mph...

[Dr. Doofus]

[QUOTE=Chris]The latest training book that I read had an interesting section on fit. The author (Jelly Belly's team physician and cycling coach) suggested that saddle to bar drop is essentially a product of two things; core strength and available room. He puts a chart in there that basically says that if you can stay in a modified push-up position on your elbows for less than a minute, then there should be minimal distance between the two. 1-2 minutes and you have a deeper range of drop. Finally, if you can stay in that position for 2 minutes (go ahead and try it, your coworkers won't care) then you should have a drop as far as possible without compromising your breathing. [QUOTE]


ok...just held that for 3 minutes and 12 seconds

still can't get the bars lower -- this test leaves out hamstring+glute+hip flexor flexibility...its his glutes and upper hamstrings that are tight at the end of the day that leaves me (and the doof) without that long perfectly flat back of our slacker grad-school cat 2 youth....

[JeffreyG]

is the frame too small for what? how do you size a bike sans rider? i could post a picture of a pair of empty shoes and ask you the same (lame) question.

Are these shoes to smal for this rider?

[vaxn8r]

My problem assuming that position has nothing to do with flexibilty.


....I just can't get my big ol' belly out of the way :(

[dirtdigger88]

Do we know what the drop really is? Looking at the bricks- and measuring the ones in my house- I am guessing a 10 to 11 cm drop- I also assume this is a pro bike (or someone wanting to look pro) so that isnt all that much- My Lemond has a 10+ cm drop- I can ride that all day long- I would rather have less- but I can ride it just the same-

Im not exactly a pro rider- H*ll- I dont even play one on TV

Jason

[Fixed]

bro if the bike fits we must qiit...... bro check out the jerks cross bike it ain't that much different.i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:

[csb]

Are these shoes to smal for this rider?

i don't know about that _ but an ad with a dude sniffing a shoe
really limits your potential purchasers to foot-suckers _ no?

[bluesea]

For us mortals, having the flexibility to riding comfortably at the more extreme levels of bardrop is only one side of the coin. The other is power generation. The fact that a rider can ride with low bars, does not mean that they will develop their optimum power output with that configuration.

[Argos]

i don't know about that _ but an ad with a dude sniffing a shoe
really limits your potential purchasers to foot-suckers _ no?

It looks to me like he's holding it like a rifle.

[steelrider]

Back in the day the famous builders claimed that it was best to have a fist's worth of seat post showing. Take that for what it's worth.

[bluesea]

Back in the day the famous builders claimed that it was best to have a fist's worth of seat post showing. Take that for what it's worth.

Wasn't that when Cino was building for Fausto?

[Argos]

I think that was before they knew to factor physiological factors. With all due respect to the masters of yore, we've come a long way.

[Dr. Doofus]

take a look at a seatpost from 1970

there isn't much more than a fistful available

duh

just one of many reasons why frames were big and handlebar drops were deep

[bluesea]

take a look at a seatpost from 1970

there isn't much more than a fistful available

duh

just one of many reasons why frames were big and handlebar drops were deep

There was always a lot of variation. If you watch Leth's film on the '73 Giro it provides a very interesting view on the evolution of rider positioning and the bike setups used. Exposed seatpost on many of the bikes are not as low as one might expect--certainly much higher than a fistful. Sure, they did tend to ride with more leg bend, and some (like Peterson) rode a bit scrunched up, but as a whole they look not too far off from what the peleton looks like today.

[Dr. Doofus]

take a look at a saddle from 1960-1990 (pre-Flite...an old Selle Italia Turbo has a similar height to a Brooks or other old-school saddle). when the saddle is 2cm taller, and you only have 10 or so cm of useable post, you get less post showing

positions are very close, except for the weird guys like pollentier. the drops on pro bikes are about where the drops on pro bikes were in Merckx's day, so are the seat heights and setbacks...that's because just like bike frame geo, rider position was worked out by (now) old italian guys a long time ago. most of the "we've re-invented position" stuff is bullcrap from north americans....

the roads got smoother

smoother road = higher saddle, shorter f-c, shorter stays, a bit less frame setback, and a slightly lower front end and slightly longer reach

anyway

take an slr saddle, shallow-drop bars, a 280mm post and work out jos bruyere's position on a bike with an integrated headset...I sez you'll end up with something in the ballpark of axel merckx's bike

[Big Dan]

If anyone is still using LOOK pedals they need a good set of earplugs and also need to raise the saddle some. That along with what the Doc said about saddle height is also part of it..... :D

[Fixed]

take a look at a saddle from 1960-1990 (pre-Flite...an old Selle Italia Turbo has a similar height to a Brooks or other old-school saddle). when the saddle is 2cm taller, and you only have 10 or so cm of useable post, you get less post showing

positions are very close, except for the weird guys like pollentier. the drops on pro bikes are about where the drops on pro bikes were in Merckx's day, so are the seat heights and setbacks...that's because just like bike frame geo, rider position was worked out by (now) old italian guys a long time ago. most of the "we've re-invented position" stuff is bullcrap from north americans....

the roads got smoother

smoother road = higher saddle, shorter f-c, shorter stays, a bit less frame setback, and a slightly lower front end and slightly longer reach

anyway

take an slr saddle, shallow-drop bars, a 280mm post and work out jos bruyere's position on a bike with an integrated headset...I sez you'll end up with something in the ballpark of axel merckx's bike
I love bike history I agree the man's (Eddys ) position was about the same as the modern riders use i.m.h.o cheers :beer:

[csb]

Back in the day the famous builders claimed that it was best to have a fist's worth of seat post showing. Take that for what it's worth.

sounds like porn to me

[jerk]

you guys get stupider and stupider everyday.

jerk

[weisan]

you guys get stupider and stupider everyday.


ha...haa...haa.....that's funny! (complete silence)
http://www.afghania.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/Fun/cat%20being%20gun%20down.jpg

[Dr. Doofus]

you guys get stupider and stupider everyday.

jerk


just because I think I make it with hot dead chicks and spend time on this forum and spend my wife's hard-earned cash on bike crap from a guy who calls himself the jerk doesn't make me



oh yeah


never mind

[Fixed]

[QUOTE=shinomaster]Two woman at work today both said I looked like a young Bob Dylan. Then tonight the rocker chick that cut my hair said the same thing...I was at first insulted..then flattered..now i'm just intoxicated.

bro people tell me I look like Bob Marley but I think I look more like T. Monk. Cheers :beer:

[bluesea]

you guys get stupider and stupider everyday.

jerk

Is that the same as getting jerkier and jerkier?

[jerk]

Is that the same as getting jerkier and jerkier?


yup.

[Fixed]

bro remember Sean Kelly's bike kinda on the small side even by todays standards.and that dude was nothin but bad i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:

[george]

Allessandro Petacchi winning Milan San Remo 2005...

[shinomaster]

Petacchi didn't win enough big races this year...so it must be his bike. Maybe he should go see Michael Sylvester at the bike gallery. I mean ****...Petacchi didn't win the worlds road race, instead that big pussy poser Tom Boonan did. What a bunch of crap.

Hey fixed..Chicks did Bob, so right on.. :banana:

Also, we've all seen Axel Merckx's bike right?