Garmin in the trees....

[67-59]

I'm thinking of upgrading my old fashioned Cateye for a GPS unit. The one concern I have is what happens if/when the GPS loses the satellites. I've heard that Garmins can have issues in thick woods, and I ride a regular loop in the woods.

So is signal dropping in the woods still an issue with the latest Garmins? If so, does it have a way to assume you kept going when it picks you back up? My specific route involves heading into the woods, turning around at a cul de sac, and coming back out where I entered. Is there any way for it to figure this out...instead of just assuming I stopped for a while?

FWIW I'm not looking for anything like HRM, power readings and the like. Mainly just want a reliable device to show distance and speed. Thanks.

[dekindy]

Get a speed/cadence sensor if you want 100% accuracy, otherwise the GPS will be adequate you just won't be able to see data on the screen 100% of the time.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm thinking of upgrading my old fashioned Cateye for a GPS unit. The one concern I have is what happens if/when the GPS loses the satellites. I've heard that Garmins can have issues in thick woods, and I ride a regular loop in the woods.

So is signal dropping in the woods still an issue with the latest Garmins? If so, does it have a way to assume you kept going when it picks you back up? My specific route involves heading into the woods, turning around at a cul de sac, and coming back out where I entered. Is there any way for it to figure this out...instead of just assuming I stopped for a while?

FWIW I'm not looking for anything like HRM, power readings and the like. Mainly just want a reliable device to show distance and speed. Thanks.

Asking the obvious here, so sorry, 'want a reliable device to show distance and speed'...Cateye standard computer??

Anything 'GPS', as in 'Global' means wireless and a signal from 'way up there'. If you want mapping and such, well, that's different. I think for distance, speed, time, etc., hard to beat a $25 computer...think GPS for just that is kinda overkill, and much larger in size and $, IMHO.

[sjbraun]

If you don't care about mapping or Strava, then a simple Cateye is the way to go.
I use a Garmin 500. For a short time I had both the Garmin and a Cateye in use. The GPS unit differed from the Cateye by 2%, (short.) I'm pretty confident the Cateye was accurate because I programmed it with the actual wheel circumference.

Another GPS drawback is the slow start up time. It can take up to a minute to locate the satellite, even longer if I start riding and the unit has to search while I'm moving.

-Steve

[crownjewelwl]

i ride both my road bike and mtb (obviously) in pretty wooded areas...never had much of a problem...once you acquire the signal, it is pretty hard to actually drop it...i go through a couple of tunnels too on my usual road routes

I'm thinking of upgrading my old fashioned Cateye for a GPS unit. The one concern I have is what happens if/when the GPS loses the satellites. I've heard that Garmins can have issues in thick woods, and I ride a regular loop in the woods.

So is signal dropping in the woods still an issue with the latest Garmins? If so, does it have a way to assume you kept going when it picks you back up? My specific route involves heading into the woods, turning around at a cul de sac, and coming back out where I entered. Is there any way for it to figure this out...instead of just assuming I stopped for a while?

FWIW I'm not looking for anything like HRM, power readings and the like. Mainly just want a reliable device to show distance and speed. Thanks.

[thwart]

On my Garmin 500, I'll lose speed accuracy in wooded areas. When I check the route afterwards (download), it seems to be all there though.

Still, I mostly ride computer-less. More fun that way, IMO. :banana:

If I want to check out distance information later, I can always Gmap it.

[mvrider]

I use an Edge 800 and ride through the hills around here, under the redwood canopy. I do not use the speed/cadence sensor on my bikes, and yes, I do hear the unit beep "auto stop" and "auto resume" occasionally. The pauses are only for a second or so.

My wife uses an Edge 500 with the speed/cadence sensor, and her unit doesn't beep like this on the same rides.

[MattTuck]

Old potatoe has it right. Unless you're looking specifically for route capture (to upload to strava, ridewithgps, garmin connect, etc.) or to follow routes you create, a GPS is way over kill.

That said, I ride up a road that is very wooded with very tall pine trees, and my GPS bounces around on it. Here's an example.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-izi9xnRB6co/UCz9VhFyqKI/AAAAAAAACEg/sYGcHgDtx40/s912/ride%2520error.png

[KF9YR]

It also depends on the trees. Ponderosa pines in Flagstaff absorb way less of the microwave frequencies than leafy trees do in an Eastern or Midwest type forest.

If you use the speed/cadence sensor you shouldn't lose any accuracy but I do agree gps is expensive and overkill for speed/distance.

I really like the route/heart rate/elevation plots but it's a personal choice.

[Bob Loblaw]

I ride in CT where we have a lot of dense tree canopy and heavy weather. The GPS is fine for recording data, and it will give you quite accurate data for distance, average speed, and (if you have a barometric altimeter), altitude.

Where it falls short is real time display of things like altitude, speed and gradient. The error in current speed fluctuates 1-4 mph due to GPS interference and lower sample rate compared to a normal computer. The wireless speed/cadence sensor helps, but it's still not as accurate as a normal computer, IME.

The no-frills Garmin 200 (if that's the one you're considering) does not support that speed sensor, BTW.

I am with those who say if you want speed and distance, stick with the Cateye. If you want GPS data recording, you can get the strava app for your smart phone. Unless you want cadence and heart rate data to compare to your altitude and speed on one screen (great for analyzing intervals of all types), a GPS computer is probably expensive overkill.

BL

[67-59]

Guess I learned something new, as I thought that GPS would be more accurate for recording speed and distance than something like a Cateye. I had certainly heard that this was the case for Garmins vs car speedometers/odometers. I kinda presumed that since the accuracy of the Cateye is based on your measurement of tire circumference, even a slight deviation - like you enter 210 cm and it's really 209.8 - could turn into bigger inaccuracies on a longer ride than I'd get with a GPS.

Learn something new every day. Thanks....

[Mark McM]

Guess I learned something new, as I thought that GPS would be more accurate for recording speed and distance than something like a Cateye. I had certainly heard that this was the case for Garmins vs car speedometers/odometers. I kinda presumed that since the accuracy of the Cateye is based on your measurement of tire circumference, even a slight deviation - like you enter 210 cm and it's really 209.8 - could turn into bigger inaccuracies on a longer ride than I'd get with a GPS.

Learn something new every day. Thanks....

For straight line point-to-point distance, GPS would be more accurate than a rotating wheel measurement, especially over longer distances.

But we don't travel in point-to-point straight lines on our bikes, we travel in winding, circuitous routes. A GPS system must calculate the total distance by adding up small segment measurements over short time periods, one every few seconds or so, for the entire time (distance) of your travel. Any one GPS reading may be off by a few yards, so if you are only measuring at the two end points of a straight line, the relative error is small. But if you add up the errors of many, many small segments, the total error could be fairly large.

[67-59]

For straight line point-to-point distance, GPS would be more accurate than a rotating wheel measurement, especially over longer distances.

But we don't travel in point-to-point straight lines on our bikes, we travel in winding, circuitous routes. A GPS system must calculate the total distance by adding up small segment measurements over short time periods, one every few seconds or so, for the entire time (distance) of your travel. Any one GPS reading may be off by a few yards, so if you are only measuring at the two end points of a straight line, the relative error is small. But if you add up the errors of many, many small segments, the total error could be fairly large.

Thanks for that clarification. My rides definitely qualify as winding and circuitous, often including repeats over certain of my favorite segments. I once did a 110-mile ride in which I was probably never more than 10 miles from home (it was supposed to storm, but never did).

Guess I'll stick with the Cateye, and spend my frns on some other fun stuff....:banana:

[pdmtong]

wait unitl CC has a giro or tdf sale ot buy the edge 500/800

its a bit overkill, but I like seing a number of metrics all at once + the elevation...which around here is more the measure of effort than distance.

in the end am I happier than my strada wireless? not really. but, it's cool.

plus, i need to remove the bar of soap if I leave my bike for a moment. too easy to steal.

sometimes I ride my vanilla without a computer...just me and the steel.
nothing reminding me I am going too slow or too fast. know what? thats a sublime experience.....

[oldpotatoe]

wait unitl CC has a giro or tdf sale ot buy the edge 500/800

its a bit overkill, but I like seing a number of metrics all at once + the elevation...which around here is more the measure of effort than distance.

in the end am I happier than my strada wireless? not really. but, it's cool.

plus, i need to remove the bar of soap if I leave my bike for a moment. too easy to steal.

sometimes I ride my vanilla without a computer...just me and the steel.
nothing reminding me I am going too slow or too fast. know what? thats a sublime experience.....

What you said, I don't even carry a watch on my day off rides. 'Bar of soap', funny, but true, they are still large.

[Vinci]

My 305 will drop a couple updates here and there is densely-covered areas, but it's not usually a problem. I feel like the ability to move it between bikes without reprogramming and the lack of wires/modules makes up for the occasional hiccup.

[pdmtong]

Heres your chance...

CC sale

Enjoy 20% off apparel and accessories with promo code Altitude.* Please use this code at checkout for online orders, or when you place your phone order with one of our customer services representatives.

[csm]

I rode the Pine Creek rail trail over the weekend and didn't lose a signal once.