View Full Version : Cross Country Skiing
Chris
09-26-2005, 09:58 AM
Okay, here's my latest hair-brained idea. Living on the wind-swept plains of Oklahoma, I am already dreading yet another season of freeze my azz off base mile training rides. One of my buddies up Boston way, said "Why don't you cross country ski this winter instead?" The obvious answer was because we don't have no freaking snow more than a day at a time. He says that I should get roller skis and that they will get me super fit in no time. It would be a nice change of pace. Any thoughts from those of you who may have experience with this sort of thing?
boulder_courier
09-26-2005, 10:24 AM
Well....I don't know if it would be a good idea to start roller skiing without having first mastered snow skiing (freestyle more so than classic) - It is a much softer landing on snow and, believe me, you will frequently go down.
If you can skate (inline or ice) and are a good athelete (well coordinated) I would give it a shot, but wear elbow, knee and head protection. The best equipment for a beginner will have speed reducers on the roller ski. These can be purchased at http://www.jenex.com
Gear West out of Minnesota also carries roller skis -
http://www.gearwest.com
as well as Finn Sisu - http://www.finnsisu.com
BigDaddySmooth
09-26-2005, 12:28 PM
...you would learn to ski on snow as it is easy to develop improper technique w/roller skis...case in point, me! Oklahoma doesn't get enough snow, so buy yourself some roller skis after watching a tape, which can be had at the aforementioned site. Also look up www.fasterskier.com and www.torbjornsport.com. for additional references.
As far as an exercise, x-c skiing can't be beat. Total body w/o impact (other than falling). Greg Lemond use to ski during the winter and lamented about the upper body weight he gained...but how many of us race to care? Better a well-rounded body than the silly stick arms/bony chests you see on so many cyclists.
andy mac
09-26-2005, 12:56 PM
when i lived in amsterdam, the dutchies would train in the 'off season' on road bikes to get ready for the speed skating season!
don't forget eric heiden too.
http://www.usolympicteam.com/26_576.htm
a few years back they apparently did a vo2 max test on olympic gold winners, summer and winter, and the winner of the men's 50km xc was deemed 'fittest'.
...but I will HIGHLY second the general recommendation about xc skiing. It is good for both cardiovascular and muscular development (or in my advancing age, maintenance) and it's way fun, epecially if you learn to skate reasonably well. You can work up to "eye-water" speed pretty quickly. I live in New England and get off my bike when it is too cold and get on skis. I love the two activities so much that I never want to make the transition -- until I do. I think changing activities keeps each one fresh.
BigDaddySmooth
09-26-2005, 02:10 PM
when i lived in amsterdam, the dutchies would train in the 'off season' on road bikes to get ready for the speed skating season!
don't forget eric heiden too.
http://www.usolympicteam.com/26_576.htm
a few years back they apparently did a vo2 max test on olympic gold winners, summer and winter, and the winner of the men's 50km xc was deemed 'fittest'.
Bjorn Daehlie, the winner of the most Gold medals in Olympic history, reputedly had a VO2 max in the middle 90s. There are a few other instances throughout history of nordic skiers at or above 90.
boulder_courier
09-26-2005, 04:12 PM
VO2 Max results are relative to what type of workout you are performing while taking the test, i.e., for a given athelete the cycling VO2 result will be lower vs. the nordic skiing VO2 result because the skier is incorporating the upper body.
You really can't compare the results of a cyclist to that of a skier and say the skier has a higher VO2.
andy mac
09-26-2005, 04:18 PM
i believe they tested them all the same way, not in their respective sports. it was quite a few years back.
boulder_courier
09-26-2005, 04:38 PM
The Norwegians have a special large treadmill that will accomadate roller skis. I believe they test their atheletes using this. A skier by the name of Espen Harald Bjerke test at 97mL/kg breaking Daehlie's 96 mL/kg mark from the mid 90's.
If you put the these skiers on a stationary bike they would not reach the same mark they achieved while skiing.
I think Greg LeMond's highest mark was around 80 mL/kg on a stationary bike.a
PeterW
09-26-2005, 04:55 PM
And I don't love mine.
In fact, most days I hate them.
Mine are classic skis. I think most agree that it is not a great idea to classic ski on rollers. They are okay for double poling, but you need to keep your pole tips very sharp.
Skate roller skis (which I've never used) are supposed to be better, but not great. Roller blades are probably almost as good.
My experience is that roller skis are fun to have around for an occasional workout, but not for bread & butter.
...but I will HIGHLY second the general recommendation about xc skiing. It is good for both cardiovascular and muscular development (or in my advancing age, maintenance) and it's way fun, epecially if you learn to skate reasonably well. You can work up to "eye-water" speed pretty quickly. I live in New England and get off my bike when it is too cold and get on skis. I love the two activities so much that I never want to make the transition -- until I do. I think changing activities keeps each one fresh.
EXACTLY!! The two sports are perfectly complementary, at least from an aesthetic/spiritual point of view. Both get you going fast using your own steam over potentially beautiful terrain harnessing deeply traditional but always improving technology. The only thing better than a good discussion of tires is a good discussion of wax! Both sports make you love the world and human ingenuity at the same time.
Onno
Here in sw Michigan we get a good 6-8 weeks of great continual snow, we have a local golf course that we groom w/ a snowmobile. Late Dec to about mid Feb "the boys" and myself kill each other on a 1.5 mile loop!! the heart rates 160-200 we achieve are pegged after about 10min.a 2-3 hour session is as long as you want to go(at that pace). Total body blaster because your not only skating but poleing like a muther!!! You get into a little pace line and whoever goes to the front just hammers as hard as they can, then peel off and let the next guy come thru.super good "off season" training.We're all over 40 and have been doing this as our winter base for many years.have fun!
Bittersweet
09-27-2005, 07:46 AM
Before you invest in rollerskis try skate skiing with rollerblades and skating length poles. You can surely borrow rollerblades if you don't own them. Go to any of the sites listed above (e.g. Gear West) and get inexpensive skating length poles (the sites have guides based on your height) as well as some roller ski ferrules to put on the end of the poles. These ferrules have no basket and the tip is more durable. I'm not suggesting that this is completely similar to skate skiing but you don't ski anyways. The key here is you are getting a full body work out and most critically your core strength will be bulletproof by spring as most of the poling is achieved via an abdominal crunch motion.
Go to this masterskier site to read articles on technique.
http://www.masterskier.com/articles.html
See how it goes and you might get addicted. Then you'll have a new sport that much like cycling you can over-analyze and debate minutia such as base grind, wax, ski flex, etc.
You'll note that PeterW lives in Charleston, SC (no snow ever) but spends most of his winter in search of skiable conditions around the country to satisfy his new XC addiction.
Enjoy
boulder_courier
09-27-2005, 05:01 PM
I think most agree that it is not a great idea to classic ski on rollers. They are okay for double poling, but you need to keep your pole tips very sharp.
Skate roller skis (which I've never used) are supposed to be better, but not great. Roller blades are probably almost as good.
My experience is that roller skis are fun to have around for an occasional workout, but not for bread & butter.
Actually, the modern equipment is quite good. I have Marwe skate roller skis and I can simulate snow skiing technique quite effectively as well as using the same muscle groups I use for snow skiing.
The 'problem' with classic roller skis is the kick is too good. On snow, no matter how good your kick wax is, you will still get some slip on a hill - You won't get this with roller skis so it poses something of a problem. But, it does develop the same muscles.
Roller skiing is a nordic racers "bread and butter" durnig the summer and fall until it snows.
As far as roller blades go....nordic racers don't use them because it develops the habit of toeing off the push and leaving the leg behind you - a big technical flaw on skate skis. Probably not a big concern for an Oklahoma cyclist....
Cadence230
09-27-2005, 08:50 PM
EXACTLY!! The two sports are perfectly complementary, at least from an aesthetic/spiritual point of view. Both get you going fast using your own steam over potentially beautiful terrain harnessing deeply traditional but always improving technology. The only thing better than a good discussion of tires is a good discussion of wax! Both sports make you love the world and human ingenuity at the same time.
Onno
That's great! Here's to art. :)
http://www.mines.edu/fs_home/jberger/skate1.gif
next to interviewing female eskimos it's the best thing you do in snow.
otherwise _ piss-off jerk and get some roller speed skates.
Bittersweet
09-28-2005, 08:25 AM
Boulder Courier is right-on with the pitfalls of classic roller skis and rollerblades. But, if you don't ski anyways your cheap try of rollerblades and skating poles is not going to ruin your technique. Read some of the technique articles out there and focus on not toe-ing off and that might help. If you think you're going to be the next Bjorn Dhaelie (sp?) then quickly invest heavily in the right equipment, otherwise take it for what it is.
In the winter the advantage of nordic skiing for me is change of pace and scenery and you go much slower so you don't get as cold as when you ride the bike. (Lifetime of living in snowy climes and the worst frostbite I've had is from spring cycling in NH) I also find that the core muscles, back and arms, need a good workout to offset a summer of riding the road. Then again if you are aspiring to win next year's polka dot jersey then don't nordic ski as you will get stronger up top.
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