Copper mini lands on mars sent by u.s.a.

[Fixed]

Heard we are landing a rover the size for a copper mini tonight on mars seems like big news
Not much about such a big undertaking . I think it is a pretty big story
IMHO
Cheers I hope it goes well :bike:

[William]

Me too. I'm watching.:cool:




William

[rwsaunders]

Cool pics and renderings here.

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/scitech/2012/08/02/mars-rover-curiosity/#slide=1

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . right here:

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/

I've read the landing sequence referred to as "Seven minutes of terror . . . sounds like a description of any number of first encounters from my match.com days . . . ;)

BBD

[maximus]

Cool video from NASA about the "7 mins of terror" - Curiosity's decent onto the surface of Mars.

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=149754671

All that and I still think the bike is the greatest of humanity's engineering accomplishments :cool:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . are listed HERE:

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/08051811-watching-curiosity-landing.html

Emily Lakdawalla kicks interplanetary butt . . . :banana:

BBD

[Fixed]

Thanks Dave I just downloaded the app for NASA tv to my iPad ..bingo Iam sitting in the mission control ,:)pretty cool thanks again made my late night
Cheers

[Louis]

Just over one hour to go...

For those guys who've put years and years of their lives into this, I can't imagine what the tension must be.

[vqdriver]

6 minutes to touchdown and I'm tense.
Eccentuated I think cuz that room at JPL is like 3/4 mile from here.

[Fixed]

I think we did it
Cheers :banana:

[vqdriver]

:banana::banana::banana:

I'm eating lucky peanuts before every event.

[retrofit]

:banana:We have touchdown, we have data, we have photos from Mars.

[Louis]

we have photos from Mars.

I won't believe it until I see the litte green "men"

[TPetsch]

Yea! ...Happy to hear that things are going to plan. The incredibly difficult part of landing that 1-ton Rover is behind us. What an engineering Marvel.

[benitosan1972]

Copper mini = Mini Cooper???

[Bruce K]

I think that's it.

One big freakin' rover. Amazing feat of technology.

BK

[BumbleBeeDave]

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/08060303-we-are-on-mars.html

Cool stuff!

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . of landing and reaction . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIUQ3MZ8yMs

BBD

[phcollard]

This is amazing stuff. Long live NASA!

[FlashUNC]

This is amazing stuff. Long live NASA!

Not at the rate the budget cuts have been going, sadly.

[Bruce K]

Agreed.

There is something unique and worthwhile about exploration, adventure, knowledge, and an uplifting of the human spirit through expanding our horizons.

Heck, without all that we'd still think the earth is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, and oceans are inhabited by sea monsters (well, at least those off of Cape Cod are).

___/\___\o/___

BK

[BumbleBeeDave]

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackernewsyc+

This is where you will see everything first. Looks like Curiosity has her own Twitter account and is tweeting from Mars! :p

BBD

[OtayBW]

What's interesting to me - as someone who has been involved with soils and landscape evolution for some time - is that there are tremendous areas of water worked (fluvial) landforms on Mars. A lot of the water is bound up in hydrated sulfates on/near the surface, but most is not accounted for. A lot of other interesting things....

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is that with an atmosphere only 1/100 as thick as earth's, much of the water has boiled away into space over the billions of years. Question seems to be how much is left in the crust bound up in the way you mention or as ice.

BBD

[OtayBW]

Another thing is that the 'Red Plant' is very likely red due to the presence of hematite (Fe2O3), a weathering product of Fe-bearing minerals that are well documented on the surface. This requires oxidation of the Fe2+ to Fe3+. Oxidation you say....

[oldguy00]

I certainly find this stuff interesting, but I question the value. How many billions has it cost? And what could they have spent that here on earth to better people's lives?
I'm not quite sure what we can gain from exploring mars. Does it matter if we find organic material there? Do they really plan to colonize Mars with a few people to restart the human race on a barren planet?

[tuxbailey]

I certainly find this stuff interesting, but I question the value. How many billions has it cost? And what could they have spent that here on earth to better people's lives?
I'm not quite sure what we can gain from exploring mars. Does it matter if we find organic material there? Do they really plan to colonize Mars with a few people to restart the human race on a barren planet?

I dunno... I think the cost is better justified than a few B-2 bombers. IMHO.

Just saying :)

Personally, this is type of thing that we do that makes the human race, the drive and interest in seeking the new frontier; expanding our view beyond the existing horizon.

[OtayBW]

I certainly find this stuff interesting, but I question the value. How many billions has it cost? And what could they have spent that here on earth to better people's lives?
I'm not quite sure what we can gain from exploring mars. Does it matter if we find organic material there? Do they really plan to colonize Mars with a few people to restart the human race on a barren planet?

It's much more (to me) than simply a plan to colonize Mars. I think Bruce and Tux had it right: It's Man's inherent nature to reach, to explore the boundaries of his place in the universe (putting aside any religious aspects of all that...). Besides, just think of how much we know and apply to more 'pragmatic' pursuits that came from basic research. It's not all just for Schlitz and giggles.

[phcollard]

I certainly find this stuff interesting, but I question the value. How many billions has it cost? And what could they have spent that here on earth to better people's lives?
I'm not quite sure what we can gain from exploring mars. Does it matter if we find organic material there? Do they really plan to colonize Mars with a few people to restart the human race on a barren planet?

The mission cost - I think - is $2.5 billion. That is less than 4 days of war in Irak (Disclaimer : note that I don't say anything negative about the later).

The cost of the International Space Station is $150 billion.

[tuxbailey]

I also think that in the long term, the only way that the human species can survive is to expand beyond this planet, and this is the type of exercise that are required to move ahead.

That is, if we don't get hit by a big meteor first and goes the way of dinosaurs.

[phcollard]

That is, if we don't get hit by a big meteor first and goes the way of dinosaurs.

LOL. You said it. Isn't there a 1 in 500 chance of impact with a big meteor in 2040 or something?

[Jaq]

I certainly find this stuff interesting, but I question the value. How many billions has it cost? And what could they have spent that here on earth to better people's lives?
I'm not quite sure what we can gain from exploring mars. Does it matter if we find organic material there? Do they really plan to colonize Mars with a few people to restart the human race on a barren planet?

They did spend it on earth, and pretty much 99.99% of it. The vast expense required doesn't represent the rocket/lander itself, but hundreds and thousands of (wo)man-hours of labor, both direct and indirect, that it took to build and launch this thing. The only thing we've "lost" is the cost of the minerals of the lander and the rocket. Everything else we spent on human beings, on technology, on infrastructure, etc.

As for what we gain by exploring Mars.... the list (to me) is long. And I have to get to work.

[tuxbailey]

They did spend it on earth, and pretty much 99.99% of it. The vast expense required doesn't represent the rocket/lander itself, but hundreds and thousands of (wo)man-hours of labor, both direct and indirect, that it took to build and launch this thing. The only thing we've "lost" is the cost of the minerals of the lander and the rocket. Everything else we spent on human beings, on technology, on infrastructure, etc.

As for what we gain by exploring Mars.... the list (to me) is long. And I have to get to work.

Excellent.

[FlashUNC]

They did spend it on earth, and pretty much 99.99% of it. The vast expense required doesn't represent the rocket/lander itself, but hundreds and thousands of (wo)man-hours of labor, both direct and indirect, that it took to build and launch this thing. The only thing we've "lost" is the cost of the minerals of the lander and the rocket. Everything else we spent on human beings, on technology, on infrastructure, etc.

As for what we gain by exploring Mars.... the list (to me) is long. And I have to get to work.

Never mind the advances we've made simply by having a space program.

As Neil deGrasse Tyson points out, NASA's entire budget for the entirety of its existence was exceeded by just two years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Considering the budget for NASA amounts to about one-half of one cent in your average federal tax return, I think its a comparative bargain.

The F-35 on the other hand?

I'd rather we repurpose some of military-industrial complex as a space exploration-industrial complex. But that's just me.

[Bruce K]

Lots of ways that NASA could be properly funded and should be properly funded for the benefits we get out of it both as a research/technology engine and an economic boost to industry, education, and employment.

Where that money can or should come from would push this conversation over the cliff. :eek:

As a 6th grade science teacher, I find it difficult that most students take our space program for granted, that they lack a real sense of adventure, curiosity, or pereserverence. They would rather Google, or Just Ask, or even YouTube and take it for granted that what they find is all that there is.

Whether we are exploring the oceans, the cosmos, or some remote place here on earth, it is an essential part of what we are, where we came from, and what got us here.

If we lose that I am afraid we lose it all.

BK

[MadRocketSci]

They did spend it on earth, and pretty much 99.99% of it. The vast expense required doesn't represent the rocket/lander itself, but hundreds and thousands of (wo)man-hours of labor, both direct and indirect, that it took to build and launch this thing. The only thing we've "lost" is the cost of the minerals of the lander and the rocket. Everything else we spent on human beings, on technology, on infrastructure, etc.

As for what we gain by exploring Mars.... the list (to me) is long. And I have to get to work.

however you're breaking down cost, i WISH the rocket/lander was anywhere near 0.01% of 2.5 billion, or, $250,000. Everytime we launch one of these things we throw the launch vehicle away. Imagine what it would cost to fly to London if we threw the 777 in the ocean after the trip...

on another note, i find that the "desire to explore" to be present in a frustratingly small segment of the population. the oddballs are the ones who would get in a boat and sail off into the horizon w/o knowing what is there. most would rather just eat drink and be merry at home. we need more oddballs....

[ultraman6970]

I totally see optimus cracking the lens of the rover.

[Fixed]

How long till the Chinese pass us in space ?
Cheers

[phcollard]

I think this image is breathtaking. Instant goosebumps :)

NASA's Curiosity rover and its parachute were spotted by NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter as Curiosity descended to the surface on Aug. 5 PDT (Aug. 6 EDT).

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/673725main_PIA15980-43_1024-768.jpg

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/673797main_PIA15979th.jpg

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/gallery-indexEvents.html

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . Bad Astronomy blog where he also has this photo.

The news these days is filled with polarization, with hate, with fear, with ignorance. But while these feelings are a part of us, and always will be, they neither dominate nor define us. Not if we don’t let them. When we reach, when we explore, when we’re curious – that’s when we’re at our best. We can learn about the world around us, the Universe around us. It doesn’t divide us, or separate us, or create artificial and wholly made-up barriers between us. As we saw on Twitter, at New York Times Square where hundreds of people watched the landing live, and all over the world: science and exploration bind us together. Science makes the world a better place, and it makes us better people.

If for no other reason, this is why every cent we spend on NASA is justified.

BBD

[Fixed]

What is really hip ?
A roomfull of eggheads leading mankind forward
I am proud of the accomplishment .
Cheers :)

[MadRocketSci]

bringing this on-topic :)

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news/companies/mars-curiosity-jobs/index.htm?source=cnn_bin

Litespeed, a Chattanooga-based company that makes bicycles, including bikes with titanium frames, made the titanium tubing for the rover's mobility systems, serving as braces between the wheels. Webster said the business relationship between NASA and Litespeed was sparked by a NASA engineer who also happens to be a biking enthusiast.

Brad DeVaney, director of production development for Litespeed, a 35-employee company owned by American Bicycle Group, said that titanium is an ideal metal to serve as the chassis and suspension system for the Mars rover because it's highly resistant to corrosion.

This isn't the first time Litespeed has worked on space technology. DeVaney said the company had previously worked with the University of California, Berkeley to design and build an exercise bike to be used in a weightless environment.

[azrider]

bringing this on-topic :)

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news/companies/mars-curiosity-jobs/index.htm?source=cnn_bin

Litespeed, a Chattanooga-based company that makes bicycles, including bikes with titanium frames, made the titanium tubing for the rover's mobility systems, serving as braces between the wheels. Webster said the business relationship between NASA and Litespeed was sparked by a NASA engineer who also happens to be a biking enthusiast.

Brad DeVaney, director of production development for Litespeed, a 35-employee company owned by American Bicycle Group, said that titanium is an ideal metal to serve as the chassis and suspension system for the Mars rover because it's highly resistant to corrosion.

This isn't the first time Litespeed has worked on space technology. DeVaney said the company had previously worked with the University of California, Berkeley to design and build an exercise bike to be used in a weightless environment.

well played :cool:

[jpw]

copper mini = mini cooper???

copper miner?

[67-59]

On my ride this morning, I saw a woman wearing a really cool t-shirt. It had the NASA logo, and said "I need my space."

:banana:

[Seramount]

I certainly find this stuff interesting, but I question the value. How many billions has it cost? And what could they have spent that here on earth to better people's lives?
I'm not quite sure what we can gain from exploring mars. Does it matter if we find organic material there? Do they really plan to colonize Mars with a few people to restart the human race on a barren planet?

it would be so refreshing to have a discussion of space research and exploration without having to hear this trite, myopic refrain...

as already mentioned, study up on dept of defense spending and get back to us with your findings.

[firerescuefin]

.

[mvrider]

http://www.nooga.com/156621/chattanooga-bicycle-company-helped-create-mars-rover-curiosity

“It was a simple contract—we made the parts and sold them to Jet Propulsion,” he said. “It wasn’t a highly profitable job, but the magnitude of what it represents is really special.”

[Jaq]

it would be so refreshing to have a discussion of space research and exploration without having to hear this trite, myopic refrain...

as already mentioned, study up on dept of defense spending and get back to us with your findings.

Be even nicer not to snipe at valid questions.

however you're breaking down cost, i WISH the rocket/lander was anywhere near 0.01% of 2.5 billion, or, $250,000. Everytime we launch one of these things we throw the launch vehicle away. Imagine what it would cost to fly to London if we threw the 777 in the ocean after the trip...

Well, okay; a bit of an exaggeration. But still, I'd love to see a Bill of Materials for the rocket/lander that laid out just the weight in raw materials. So many kg of aluminum, gold, copper, stainless steel, silicon, exotic alloys, plastics, etc. But nothing complex; just the raw "right stuff." I'd love to know how much that costs.

on another note, i find that the "desire to explore" to be present in a frustratingly small segment of the population. the oddballs are the ones who would get in a boat and sail off into the horizon w/o knowing what is there. most would rather just eat drink and be merry at home. we need more oddballs....

+1 x 10^10^10^10^10^10

[jpw]

Be even nicer not to snipe at valid questions.



Well, okay; a bit of an exaggeration. But still, I'd love to see a Bill of Materials for the rocket/lander that laid out just the weight in raw materials. So many kg of aluminum, gold, copper, stainless steel, silicon, exotic alloys, plastics, etc. But nothing complex; just the raw "right stuff." I'd love to know how much that costs.



+1 x 10^10^10^10^10^10

Economies of scale don't apply here. It's a custom job.

[tuxbailey]

http://www.nooga.com/156621/chattanooga-bicycle-company-helped-create-mars-rover-curiosity

Can I infer that my Merlin will last forever since it was built under ABG's ownership? :rolleyes:

[Brian Smith]

http://www.nooga.com/156621/chattanooga-bicycle-company-helped-create-mars-rover-curiosity

The Litespeed portion seems both very cool and a very poor choice for the article's content. With Litespeed saying that it wasn't really a profitable job (how often do government contractors have that reportage subsequent to aerospace-y projects) it seems that the answer to the article's main question, in Litespeed terms, is zero.

I think if a U.S. company is configured in a manner to survive manufacturing bicycle frames, they're probably ill-equipped to handle a custom job like that.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . shot by a camera on the belly of the rover as it landed.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/08061652-mardi-video-thumb.html

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

This is SO much more fun than arguing about Lance.

BBD

[Louis]

Sure that's not the MGM back lot?

[BumbleBeeDave]

First COLOR picture has now been received! Cool!

BBD

[martinrjensen]

Copper is pretty heavy. I bet it's maybe titanium instead. Heard we are landing a rover the size for a copper mini tonight on mars seems like big news
Not much about such a big undertaking . I think it is a pretty big story
IMHO
Cheers I hope it goes well :bike:

[Jack Brunk]

Copper is pretty heavy. I bet it's maybe titanium instead.

Probably would be able to build a super duper lightweight 29er titanium frame. LOL!

Super cool pic.

[Jaq]

Economies of scale don't apply here. It's a custom job.

But I think that's exactly my point. "Custom" simply means that more highly-skilled humans and incredibly precise machines work on it longer. It's covering the cost of that labor and the cost of the machinery and the power bills and the dental plan at JPL that makes the lander so expensive, and not the inherent value of the raw materials.

[vqdriver]

. . . shot by a camera on the belly of the rover as it landed.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/08061652-mardi-video-thumb.html

BBD

Not very interesting..... until I wrap my head around what I'm watching.
Then IT'S THE COOLEST THING EVER.

[Louis]

Forget about where the hardware ended up, or how much the gold, AL and Ti in the system costs, IMO the better question is whether "we" (interpret that in any manner you like) would get more out of all that effort if it were expended on doing XYZ instead?

I'm an engineer, and I'm all for this sort of thing. We do spend lots of money trying to cure cancer and helping to fix world hunger, so I have no problem with basic research. It's all a balancing act, and IMO there is no one way to prove that % percent of the US's budget for NASA is the right number. (I don't know off the top of my head what the % is, but I do know that it's not very big.)

[phcollard]

This is SO much more fun than arguing about Lance.

BBD

You said it! I was browsing the NASA website and I found this video from the Summer of '69. I was almost in tears. Must watch.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/apollo11_video.html

[Jaq]

Forget about where the hardware ended up, or how much the gold, AL and Ti in the system costs, IMO the better question is whether "we" (interpret that in any manner you like) would get more out of all that effort if it were expended on doing XYZ instead?

I'm an engineer, and I'm all for this sort of thing. We do spend lots of money trying to cure cancer and helping to fix world hunger, so I have no problem with basic research. It's all a balancing act, and IMO there is no one way to prove that % percent of the US's budget for NASA is the right number. (I don't know off the top of my head what the % is, but I do know that it's not very big.)

Agreed; at a certain point, the answer is unknowable. But I'm a total geek for this stuff. If it were up to me I'd octuple Nasa's budget, set up an agency that invited direct partnership/membership with every willing nation, and start training men and women from every corner of the earth as astronauts and send 'em into space by the busload. Permanent Moon base by 2020, manned Mars by 2025, manned Titan by 2035.

Meanwhile, more expeditions into the depths of our very own oceans, chart the sea floors, find new species, track pollution, etc.

[Karin Kirk]

Jaq for President! :hello:

[FlashUNC]

Agreed; at a certain point, the answer is unknowable. But I'm a total geek for this stuff. If it were up to me I'd octuple Nasa's budget, set up an agency that invited direct partnership/membership with every willing nation, and start training men and women from every corner of the earth as astronauts and send 'em into space by the busload. Permanent Moon base by 2020, manned Mars by 2025, manned Titan by 2035.

Meanwhile, more expeditions into the depths of our very own oceans, chart the sea floors, find new species, track pollution, etc.

Where do I sign up?

[MadRocketSci]

Agreed; at a certain point, the answer is unknowable. But I'm a total geek for this stuff. If it were up to me I'd octuple Nasa's budget, set up an agency that invited direct partnership/membership with every willing nation, and start training men and women from every corner of the earth as astronauts and send 'em into space by the busload. Permanent Moon base by 2020, manned Mars by 2025, manned Titan by 2035.

Meanwhile, more expeditions into the depths of our very own oceans, chart the sea floors, find new species, track pollution, etc.

give it to the private sector, in the form of large cash prizes...

[Louis]

I'd octuple Nasa's budget, set up an agency that invited direct partnership/membership with every willing nation, and start training men and women from every corner of the earth as astronauts and send 'em into space by the busload. Permanent Moon base by 2020, manned Mars by 2025, manned Titan by 2035.

You sound like Gene Roddenberry. ;)

Until we have warp drive we won't be going very far, but I suppose there will always be some folks willing to take one-way trips.

[rain dogs]

I echo the sentiments of some others here. Don't get me wrong I think this is cool. Exciting in a very geeky way.

Without starting strawman arguments about money to Nasa vs money to war or aids research... I really long for the day when we see rooms full of grown men and women celebrating like this, with this much invested emotional energy into fixing the numerous ****ed up conditions on THIS planet.

And beyond that when those individuals' excitement will spawn out through the interwebs to the general populous and they'll be equally excited and welded to the news updates for such issues as finding ways to:

-tackle the systems sources of the daily increase in concentrations of pollutants in our air, water and topsoil.
-end the bio-accumulation of toxic and persitant chemicals in the biosphere
-find a long-term sustainable source of energy that isn't nuclear
-create a sensible waste management system, rather than just "burying it in the ground"
-convince people to ride their bikes one more day per week.
-develop efficient, manageable and low-waste food distribution systems

etc.
etc.

Someday, please, can we get even slightly excited about those, and literally dozens of other basic life on the planet, issues?

I mean, surveying on Mars is cool too.

[MadRocketSci]

I echo the sentiments of some others here. Don't get me wrong I think this is cool. Exciting in a very geeky way.

Without starting strawman arguments about money to Nasa vs money to war or aids research... I really long for the day when we see rooms full of grown men and women celebrating like this, with this much invested emotional energy into fixing the numerous ****ed up conditions on THIS planet.

And beyond that when those individuals' excitement will spawn out through the interwebs to the general populous and they'll be equally excited and welded to the news updates for such issues as finding ways to:

-tackle the systems sources of the daily increase in concentrations of pollutants in our air, water and topsoil.
-end the bio-accumulation of toxic and persitant chemicals in the biosphere
-find a long-term sustainable source of energy that isn't nuclear
-create a sensible waste management system, rather than just "burying it in the ground"
-convince people to ride their bikes one more day per week.
-develop efficient, manageable and low-waste food distribution systems

etc.
etc.

Someday, please, can we get even slightly excited about those, and literally dozens of other basic life on the planet, issues?

I mean, surveying on Mars is cool too.

consider this: the more experience and knowledge we gain from living off this planet, in a sustainable closed loop system (reuse/recycle EVERYTHING), the better we will be at addressing these concerns...

[MattTuck]

Permanent Moon base by 2020, manned Mars by 2025, manned Titan by 2035.


Newt, is that you?



;)

[rain dogs]

consider this: the more experience and knowledge we gain from living off this planet, in a sustainable closed loop system (reuse/recycle EVERYTHING), the better we will be at addressing these concerns...

Valid rebuttal, but isn't that putting the cart before the horse?

[maxdog]

Valid rebuttal, but isn't that putting the cart before the horse?

Agreed. I don't think capability or technology lies at the heart of the aforementioned problems, but rather the will of those who are empowered to pursue these issues. Having said that, as mentioned above, the amount spent on this is negligible relative the waste and corruption in our society.

[oldguy00]

...
Considering the budget for NASA amounts to about one-half of one cent in your average federal tax return, I think its a comparative bargain.
....

Is that (sort of) accurate? Guess I don't feel so bad then. :)

[oldguy00]

it would be so refreshing to have a discussion of space research and exploration without having to hear this trite, myopic refrain...

as already mentioned, study up on dept of defense spending and get back to us with your findings.

I can't wait to get you into a tubular vs clincher debate!!


:banana:

[MadRocketSci]

Valid rebuttal, but isn't that putting the cart before the horse?

along the lines of my ever increasing cynicism...

some people do things because they believe in doing the right things...

most people do things that are cheaper and save time...

as long as it is cheaper and more convenient to dump stuff (*cough* Walgreens), burn hydrocarbons, eat overpackaged processed foods, etc, most will.

in space you can't do that sh*t....so we can try to figure it out there, or just wait until we can't do that sh*t here anymore...

stuff only happens quickly AFTER the ignored consequences have become a huge problem...

[MadRocketSci]

Is that (sort of) accurate? Guess I don't feel so bad then. :)

current budget for NASA is around 17 billion/year...

[Dekonick]

It is short sighted to think space exploration is a waste of money and resources. Much of what we will gain from programs like this goes waaaay beyond the knowledge. It is the dream. We need our kids to become interested in science rather than sports. They should strive to become astronauts, scientists, engineers... The 60 and 70' gave us dreams of a bright future while under the fear of global war. What do our kids have to look forward to now? Global economic failure, wars, famine, global warming, nutso leaders, political impasse... I, for one, welcome science for science's sake. The benefits to all are far greater than the measly % of our GDP we spend to expand our knowledge. Look, in the last decade we have changed our world view - because of Hubble. We have mapped the universe!!! THINK ABOUT THAT! If you have not seen this, you are missing out.

Dream big or stay home...

[Dekonick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0fIYK22Lw&feature=share

[Louis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0fIYK22Lw&feature=share

Amazing how all that stuff rotates around us, right here on earth !!!

[laupsi]

Amazing how all that stuff rotates around us, right here on earth !!!

a correction is due; nothing is "rotating around us", except of course our own beliefs and imagination. for the most part these galaxies in fact are moving away from us and each other at an ever increasing speed as time marches on.

[Louis]

a correction is due; nothing is "rotating around us", except of course our own beliefs and imagination. for the most part these galaxies in fact are moving away from us and each other at an ever increasing speed as time marches on.

Not according to Cardinal Bellarmine.

[dustyrider]

It is short sighted to think space exploration is a waste of money and resources. Much of what we will gain from programs like this goes waaaay beyond the knowledge. It is the dream. We need our kids to become interested in science rather than sports. They should strive to become astronauts, scientists, engineers... The 60 and 70' gave us dreams of a bright future while under the fear of global war. What do our kids have to look forward to now? Global economic failure, wars, famine, global warming, nutso leaders, political impasse... I, for one, welcome science for science's sake. The benefits to all are far greater than the measly % of our GDP we spend to expand our knowledge. Look, in the last decade we have changed our world view - because of Hubble. We have mapped the universe!!! THINK ABOUT THAT! If you have not seen this, you are missing out.

Dream big or stay home...

Be sure to read the key, in the video description. I wonder are the red dots really worth it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkfKnxX-L0k&feature=related



What kind of gains would occur in the future if education and access to health care was fully funded, before space exploration?

As far as challenging/changing our world view by mapping the universe, I challenge you to go to your local public school and ask some students if they agree with you(make sure you get permission first, cause our world view isn't as rosy as you'd like to think).
I know a few students who are more concerned with where their dinner will come from since school lunch is their only warm meal during the weekday. Never mind the issue of what that meal actually consist of, that's certainly a 1st world problem. I'm only looking in the USA, I'd expect you to find some interesting responses in nations with less wealth....but hey maybe a starving mother whose child just died would love hear how the Hubble has changed her life for the better.

[Louis]

I know a few students who are more concerned with where their dinner will come from since school lunch is their only warm meal during the weekday. Never mind the issue of what that meal actually consist of, that's certainly a 1st world problem. I'm only looking in the USA, I'd expect you to find some interesting responses in nations with less wealth....but hey maybe a starving mother whose child just died would love hear how the Hubble has changed her life for the better.

That's why we do both, provide funds for school lunches and for NASA's budget. It's not one or the other. So then the question becomes how we choose how much to allocate to each. As mentioned above, there is no simple way of doing this, which is why we elect intelligent, curious, rational and compassionate politicians to hash it all out for us.

Oh, wait a minute, maybe that's not right...

[laupsi]

Not according to Cardinal Bellarmine.

let's not go there :)

[dustyrider]

That's why we do both, provide funds for school lunches and for NASA's budget. It's not one or the other. So then the question becomes how we choose how much to allocate to each. As mentioned above, there is no simple way of doing this, which is why we elect intelligent, curious, rational and compassionate politicians to hash it all out for us.

Oh, wait a minute, maybe that's not right...

Umm your sorta missing the point. I get what your saying and I hear what others are hinting at, but to me wouldn't you want to live in a society where a child doesn't qualify for a free lunch first? Then you can go exploring off world.
To me if you balance one against the other, it's like saying; we're always going to have kids whose parents don't make enough money to feed them, unless we spark their imaginations enough with a space program, so they won't take their education for granted, and hopefully become future scientists, which will hopefully eradicate the need for free lunches.

[bikerboy337]

+1 :banana:

It is short sighted to think space exploration is a waste of money and resources. Much of what we will gain from programs like this goes waaaay beyond the knowledge. It is the dream. We need our kids to become interested in science rather than sports. They should strive to become astronauts, scientists, engineers... The 60 and 70' gave us dreams of a bright future while under the fear of global war. What do our kids have to look forward to now? Global economic failure, wars, famine, global warming, nutso leaders, political impasse... I, for one, welcome science for science's sake. The benefits to all are far greater than the measly % of our GDP we spend to expand our knowledge. Look, in the last decade we have changed our world view - because of Hubble. We have mapped the universe!!! THINK ABOUT THAT! If you have not seen this, you are missing out.

Dream big or stay home...

[Louis]

I doubt that even an infinite amount of space exploration would solve poverty and eliminate the need for school lunches.

Of course we would rather live in a society where kids do not need lunches provided by the government, but that's like the Lennon song "Imagine." It just ain't gonna happen any time soon (at least not in this country).

[MadRocketSci]

I believe that "cheap access to space" (aka CATS) would immeasurably improve life on earth for all.

Queen I. funded Cristobal Colon despite widespread poverty and the existence of smallpox

Early Homo Sapiens left the savannah despite not having figured out how to cure infections from cheetah bites or how to prevent or fix tooth decay

we can't put off discovery and exploration until after the basic problems of humanity (disease, poverty, etc) have been "solved" (ie, never). We wouldn't be where we are today with that kind of attitude.

Besides, there are plenty more people dedicated to the eradication of disease and poverty than those trying to figure out CATS.

[Louis]

I believe that "cheap access to space" (aka CATS) would immeasurably improve life on earth for all.

I'm all for it, but unless "CATS" involves some sort of cold-fusion discovery of vast amounts of super-cheap energy, or cures to the various diseases that plague the 3rd world, I think this is overly optimistic.

[Fixed]

In my simple mind anytime we say
A race to discover beats a race to destroy
I say hear ,hear :)
Cheers

[MadRocketSci]

I'm all for it, but unless "CATS" involves some sort of cold-fusion discovery of vast amounts of super-cheap energy, or cures to the various diseases that plague the 3rd world, I think this is overly optimistic.

the sun's the biggest fusion reactor in the neighborhood...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere

biggest impediment is the cost of launching the hardware....

He3 on the moon...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3


about the diseases, cheap access to clean water would be a great start, something that is needed in space as well...

[Jaq]

I suppose I might have started a separate thread, but the sci-fi geeks are in here, so what the heck.

Anyhow, I'm very fortunate to have a good friend who works at JPL and is involved with the current mission. He just shot me an email about an upcoming National Geo. special being aired tomorrow night on the Nat. Geo. Channel, 10pm et/pt.

I've attached NG's press release as a PDF.

[Jaq]

the sun's the biggest fusion reactor in the neighborhood...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere

biggest impediment is the cost of launching the hardware....

He3 on the moon...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3


about the diseases, cheap access to clean water would be a great start, something that is needed in space as well...

Here's an idea. We build space elevators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator), and at the top of each one, we put a huge reactor complex. It pumps power back down the cable, and if there's ever a problem, we just cut it lose! Win-win!

(and yes, I'm kidding... but it might actually work...)

[Louis]

Here's an idea. We build space elevators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator), and at the top of each one, we put a huge reactor complex. It pumps power back down the cable, and if there's ever a problem, we just cut it lose! Win-win!

I think it's a lot easier to just take cold showers and not set the thermostat to 70* in the summer and 80* in the winter.

[Fixed]

I think it's a lot easier to just take cold showers and not set the thermostat to 70* in the summer and 80* in the winter.

Or like me I don't use water heater ,a.c. Or heat
Save ,save ,save
Cheers

[Dekonick]

Good God! It seems that many are unable to see the forest through the trees...

You want kids to have lunch? Spend money on space exploration. You want kids to learn? Spend $$ on research. You want to keep your country? Spend $$ on science and research. It all DOES come back to help the 'collective' in ways that are hard to imagine. All of the research involved in extra-planetary missions will benefit humanity - from recycling (going to Mars? Better be EXTREMELY good @ recycling... else you die) to energy.

No child should go hungry - but it makes much more sense to perhaps research how to grow things where things shouldn't be able to grow so you can feed more kids... The same old saying... give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach him to fish... well... he eats and feeds his kids. Teach him to farm on Mars and who knows where he can go.

The future is NOW - put things off and they never get done. Look at my inbox and that is proof enough!

[MadRocketSci]

Or like me I don't use water heater ,a.c. Or heat
Save ,save ,save
Cheers

do you guys live with...ahem...women? it's a constant battle in my house :)

[Louis]

You want kids to have lunch? Spend money on space exploration. You want kids to learn? Spend $$ on research. You want to keep your country? Spend $$ on science and research.

Sounds awfully anti-capitalist and un-American to me. We'll need to put a stop to that pronto. From what I've heard on the campaign trail and talk-radio this year only the free-market can make this sort of decision properly. [tongue-in-cheek Smiley]

[Fixed]

[QUOTE=MadRocketSci;1185107]do you guys live with...ahem...women? it's a constant battle in my house :)[
It is like we are camping out We use the oven rarely mostly raw foods
Old Florida style home with lots of ventilation and big shade trees
One concession is we have a pool for cooling off and swimming in
Cheers :) my electric bill runs about 80 dollars a month

[Dekonick]

Sounds awfully anti-capitalist and un-American to me. We'll need to put a stop to that pronto. From what I've heard on the campaign trail and talk-radio this year only the free-market can make this sort of decision properly. [tongue-in-cheek Smiley]
:p

:mad:

[tuxbailey]

http://xkcd.com/893/

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/65_years.png

"The universe is probably littered with the one-planet graves of cultures which made the sensible economic decision that there's no good reason to go into space--each discovered, studied, and remembered by the ones who made the irrational decision."

[Louis]

Just to be a contrarian (because I hardly ever do that) does the moon really count as another world? One might argue that folks on LSD trips have been to places as illuminating as the moon.

However, I agree that "stepping off" the earth and getting a "big blue marble" view should help folks put our little corner of the universe into context. It's the only one we have, and since we won't be leaving it any time soon, it behooves us to take care of it, regardless of what Millenarians might say.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg/599px-The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg

[MadRocketSci]

However, I agree that "stepping off" the earth and getting a "big blue marble" view should help folks put our little corner of the universe into context.


If I ever win super lotto, I will build and launch "SkyWalkerSat," at small satellite with a gimbal mounted camera that tracks a head-mounted video display in real time. If we really want to get fancy we can put the user in a 3-axis rotational gimbal that responds to measured satellite attitude rate. A virtual space walk experience!

Hope George L. doesn't mind the name. You guys can help me test it :beer: Afterwards the ground station will go on a museum tour or something....for the kids...

With the leftover money I will book a week on the ISS through Space Adventures....good times.