Hey Campy Gurus -- Downtube shifters and gearing?

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I am heading over to look at (and hopefully buy) an older Bianchi frameset that cries out for a vintage Campy build. There are cable stops on there now, but I'm thinking of taking them off and going to downtube shifters. If I do that, and if I were to use friction (not indexed) shifters, does it matter what vintage gearing and derailleurs I use? I haven't worked on friction shifters in roughly forever, so I don't recall whether the cable pull is different for 8, 9 etc.

[VA-Scooter]

Been awhile since I did friction shifters also. I would think it does not matter as you are deciding how far to move shifter & can trim it to get it correct.

[thwart]

I found 9 speed to be a real pain with non-indexed downtube shifters. You probably can develop the fine motor finger skills to do smooth one-up and one-down shifts, but I never came close. Great if you enjoy lots of trimming after every shift... :rolleyes:

I'd reconsider indexing or go 8 (or even 7) speed. IMO.

RD cable pull/shift ratios are not pertinent if you're going friction shifting.

[Ralph]

I found 9 speed to be a real pain with non-indexed downtube shifters. You probably can develop the fine motor finger skills to do smooth one-up and one-down shifts, but I never came close. Great if you enjoy lots of trimming after every shift... :rolleyes:

I'd reconsider indexing or go 8 (or even 7) speed. IMO.

RD cable pull/shift ratios are not pertinent if you're going friction shifting.

It's gotta pull enough cable to make it accross the cassette, which is wider than the freewheel it was designed to cover.

[Hindmost]

I have run old super Record derailers with Record C dt shifters and 8 speed--worked really well. The rear shifter has to be clocked a little lower to reach the biggest cog but it works fine.

I have run an 8 speed derailer with Suntour be shifter and 10 speed--required a bit of technique but it works.

The newer cranksets and chain with the old front derailers is a revelation. (The purists may object.)

[FastforaSlowGuy]

So doing dt shifters with 10 or 11 speed sounds like a bad idea then. Unless they are making 10/11 dt shifters which I have seen. I was sort of hoping it would so I could just slap a different freehub body on my existing wheels.

I may need to go full vintage here.

[wallymann]

i use simplex retro-friction shifters with super-record mechs and 10spd freehubs...it works fine at the back-end with campy 9-speed cogsets. its fussier up front, not because of the shifting but just because the SR cage is so narrow that when used on a somewhat flexible steel 531 frame i have to get it adjusted absolutely *perfectly* for height and angle to minimize rub. on my more stout SL/SP frames its less of an issue.

if you wanna use it with a modern 10/11 wheelset, just keep a 9spd cogset handy to run with the old shifters -- you can get nice miche 9sp cogsets for like $50.

I am heading over to look at (and hopefully buy) an older Bianchi frameset that cries out for a vintage Campy build. There are cable stops on there now, but I'm thinking of taking them off and going to downtube shifters. If I do that, and if I were to use friction (not indexed) shifters, does it matter what vintage gearing and derailleurs I use? I haven't worked on friction shifters in roughly forever, so I don't recall whether the cable pull is different for 8, 9 etc.

[ultraman6970]

The only problem IMO if you go to 10 or 9 is that the lever will do like a 180 degrees when you are in the biggest cogs. If that doesn't bother you you should be ok.

As for the RD, probably the old record ones or old SR ones wont shift a 10 speed cassette because the travel of the derailleur is shorter than in the newer ones. But maybe you will be able to use like 7 or 8 from the whole 10 speed cassette using an old r or sr derailleur.

Besides those 2 things doubt you will have a lot of problems.

[Chance]

I am heading over to look at (and hopefully buy) an older Bianchi frameset that cries out for a vintage Campy build. There are cable stops on there now, but I'm thinking of taking them off and going to downtube shifters. If I do that, and if I were to use friction (not indexed) shifters, does it matter what vintage gearing and derailleurs I use? I haven't worked on friction shifters in roughly forever, so I don't recall whether the cable pull is different for 8, 9 etc.

Can you not get the right shifters for whatever gearing and derailleurs you want and them run them in friction mode? At least if it doesn't work as you expect you can switch to indexed. Not sure what your overall build goals are so this may make no sense at all.

[bikinchris]

I have to disagree here. 11 speed is not that much wider than an 8 speed and downtube friction shifters had no problem with that. Biggest problem you might encounter is that you may have to tighten the cable enough to make the shift to the smallest cog a little slow. I think you will be fine though. If you mount the cable on the inside of the bolt, you will get more movement, but that is probably not necessary.

[Kontact]

The biggest problem you'll run into is the amount of cable pull needed. All of the 8-11 speed Campy groups that use the Shimano style derailleurs have very large cable wrap on the shifters (close to 30mm of cable pull from 1 to 11). Something like a Simplex retrofriction shifter would be pointing at the BB if you tried to use it on those derailleurs. Any of the earlier designed groups that used Syncro 1 or 2 won't have that problem. (Syncro 2 shifters have a friction mode, BTW).

That isn't to say that there aren't friction shifters out there that would work, but '91 and on Campy and SRAM both pull an awful lot of cable compared to anything else.

[dancingbear]

Chris Kvale runs 10 speed Campy with indexed downtube shifters on his personal road bike. Apparently Campy 10spd TT levers can be removed from the bar end holders and will fit fine on old school downtube shifter bosses.

[Ti Designs]

There's a basement in Arlington with many of the parts you'll need...

[bikinchris]

Ooops. I meant to say. Get 8 speed downtube shfters and turn them to friction if you want to use them on 9, 10 or 11 speed. And yes, you can use 11 speed bar end shifters on downtube stops, but they look nowhere nearly as cool as the gorgeous 8 speed downtube shifters.

[OTB]

I took an 8 speed indexed shifter apart and replaced the 8 speed ring and replaced it with a 10 speed one:

http://www.bikeman.com/LD9777.html


Works fine: http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/attachments/f2/33379d1309134305-no-imperfection-here-dsc_1446.jpg

[Kontact]

Ooops. I meant to say. Get 8 speed downtube shfters and turn them to friction if you want to use them on 9, 10 or 11 speed. And yes, you can use 11 speed bar end shifters on downtube stops, but they look nowhere nearly as cool as the gorgeous 8 speed downtube shifters.

The kind of shifter you're talking about was only made in 1991. 1992 on couldn't be set to friction.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Careful what you wish for.
There's a basement in Arlington with many of the parts you'll need...

[Ti Designs]

Careful what you wish for.

You mean like "I wish some of that stuff would find a home that's not my basement" ???

Seriously, Simplex retrofriction shifters with a band clamp? Yup, there's at least one down there. Campy Syncro DT shifters still in the box? Yeh, got them too. A campy 8-speed Record rear derailleur? Yup - found that just the other day... You're local, you can come get the stuff and take it away - I **HATE** sending things, I would rather put it all out on the curb.

[bikinchris]

The kind of shifter you're talking about was only made in 1991. 1992 on couldn't be set to friction.

Are you talking about these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-NOS-80s-campagnolo-c-record-8speed-syncro-down-tube-shifters-/320946465326?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D160846 198098%26ps%3D54

Or these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMPAGNOLO-SYNCHRO-DOWNTUBE-SHIFTERS-FRICTION-INDEX-NOS-VINTAGE-CAMPY-ROAD-BIKE-/290713582751?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D160846 198098%26ps%3D54

Both of which having a knurled ring that you lift outward and turn to set it to friction? (one might be 7 speed)

[Ti Designs]

I can't give this stuff away...

[fiamme red]

I can't give this stuff away...I don't know, seems that there's a strong market for vintage NOS Campagnolo. Just look at e-RICHIE's auctions: http://www.ebay.com/sch/bobbesrs/m.html.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Yep, we definitely need to meet up.

[Kontact]

Are you talking about these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-NOS-80s-campagnolo-c-record-8speed-syncro-down-tube-shifters-/320946465326?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D160846 198098%26ps%3D54

Or these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMPAGNOLO-SYNCHRO-DOWNTUBE-SHIFTERS-FRICTION-INDEX-NOS-VINTAGE-CAMPY-ROAD-BIKE-/290713582751?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D160846 198098%26ps%3D54

Both of which having a knurled ring that you lift outward and turn to set it to friction? (one might be 7 speed)
The first one is the 1991 version that I mentioned, and would be the only friction-able appropriate shifter for the 8-11 derailleurs. The second one has a small cable wrap designed for the earlier stuff.

[oldpotatoe]

I am heading over to look at (and hopefully buy) an older Bianchi frameset that cries out for a vintage Campy build. There are cable stops on there now, but I'm thinking of taking them off and going to downtube shifters. If I do that, and if I were to use friction (not indexed) shifters, does it matter what vintage gearing and derailleurs I use? I haven't worked on friction shifters in roughly forever, so I don't recall whether the cable pull is different for 8, 9 etc.

Doesn't really altho friction type rear ders and small barrel shift levers may have a tough time in the whole 9s+ range, since the cogset is taller than a 5, 6, 7s freewheel.

[oldpotatoe]

I can't give this stuff away...

Give it to me then.

[Ti Designs]

Give it to me then.

When did you want to pick it up?

[oldpotatoe]

When did you want to pick it up?

Ahh, the catch..how about I send a stamped box, inna box, and you just load them in and send?

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I'll call dibs on those shifters in a box. I'm tending toward doing this as a full 8 speed setup.

Picked up the frame yesterday, and it's in pretty good shape. A little touch up paint will be needed on the drive side stays, but no rust. The seller replaced the fork with a carbon Kestral and ditched the stock steel fork. That will change the look of things, but perhaps I can hunt down a replacement (or have something aesthetically close painted up to match).

I'll post pics once I get the frame cleaned up a bit.

[559Rando]

I'll call dibs on those shifters in a box. I'm tending toward doing this as a full 8 speed setup.

Picked up the frame yesterday, and it's in pretty good shape. A little touch up paint will be needed on the drive side stays, but no rust. The seller replaced the fork with a carbon Kestral and ditched the stock steel fork. That will change the look of things, but perhaps I can hunt down a replacement (or have something aesthetically close painted up to match).

I'll post pics once I get the frame cleaned up a bit.

You should do fine shfting 8s in friction. With those Simple SLJ shifters, you should be very happy. That's considered the holy grail friction DT shifter by many.

[pavel]

like wally said, simplex downtube shifters will work for 9 speed. Riv silvers (micro-ratchet) will work with 10 (I have 2x10 campy on my commuter set up like this.)

campy dopplers should do 9 no problem, super record friction will do 8 without any problem.

I had a syncro II rebuilt in friction mode doing 10 once, but that was with a lot of cable tension and was really a "just because I can" sort of thing.