how often do you ride in the drops?

[Ken Robb]

assume that you are riding a bike with drop bars

[christian]

Depends on the ride. 18 mile time trial? 95% or more. 60 mile casual ride with friends? 21-40%.

- Christian

[Brian Smith]

maybe more than 80%.....
There's a reason those vestigial hooks are there!

[Russ]

Is not just if you ride in the drops alone; but when riding on the hoods, do you bend your elbows and maintain an aerodinamic position?

I have seen too many riders on the hoods with the elbows all locked up. :no: :no: :no:

[CalfeeFly]

Definitely the best poll I've seen here...it is nice to know I'm not alone in the bottom percentage. :D

[Ken Robb]

I knew that the question was a bit too limiting as it didn't allow for the race vs. casual/touring ride variation but even so the percentage overall should be valid. Wht got me thinking about this was what I saw on my ride yesterday. I was riding the bike path along the coast and passed and was passed by at least 200 riders. Solo riders, small groups, big groups in team jerseys, etc. I only saw FOUR riders in the drops. I use the drops when I'm bucking a headwind or just for a change of position. I know that more than 4 of the folks I passed must have used the drops somewhere when I wasn't looking but that is still a mighty small number.

So here comes the semi-philosophical fit question: Should our bikes be set up so the drops are comfortable and used most of the time and we would only go to the tops or hoods for a change of position or should the bike be set up so the natural,most comfortable position is the tops and the drops are only usable for short sprints? The latter seems to be what most people are riding these days.

Due to some recent fiddling with bars/stems and new eyeglasses I'm starting to believe that I can be almost equally comfy in all positions but this position was never what the shops recommended and certainly not what most people are buying. Having said that I have yet to get on a Serotta sizer. My discussions with my local fitters did not lead me to believe that they "got" what I was telling them about my wishes. I should probably flown cross country and let P. Levine or Smiley fix me up. Actually, I got on the right track at a meeting/fitting w/ Grant Petersen at Rivendell with hints from Douglas Brooks. Jeez, this post is so long it could one of his. :rolleyes:

[Russ]

Ken,

Your observations remind me of things the jerk has said over and over in this forum: a lot of people are not using the right stem size and are not fitted properly!

Also, I understood your post as a general post, not directed to those that race here. I was taught to ride on the drops by my old coaches, so today I still find it very comfortable to use them a lot. Especially after I have warmed-up and I am into the ride. I have noticed that if I stay on the tops for too long, my elbows and upper back start to feel tight, so I change positions often, therefore using the drops 40-60% of the time. One thing I never do, even when I lived in hilly places, is climb on the drops a la Pantani. Or locking up my elbows when on the tops... I just never felt comfortable doing this.

I am no expert bike fitter, coach or what have you, just "some fast guy..." as DBRK once called me. But I have been around cycling long enough to know a bit and have a little opinion :p

My answers to your question:

"Should our bikes be set up so the drops are comfortable and used most of the time and we would only go to the tops or hoods for a change of position..."

IMHO, yes as long as the bike has a racing geomerty [as per UCI, I guess], and we use it to ride fast and hard!

"Should the bike be set up so the natural, most comfortable position is the tops and the drops are only usable for short sprints?"

I don't think this is an efficient way to ride a "racing" bike. I rather use flat bars if this was the case. For instance, I would never set up a commuter bike with drop bars as I live in a flat area and the commute will be short. I rather do a hybrid, with skinny tries and a flat bar.

However, I may set up a touring bike with drop bars, but slightly higher front position. The reason for this is that I would like to go on the drops when going down hill or if it gets windy.

"The latter seems to be what most people are riding these days...."
I have observed this ever since the arrival of ahead stems on road bikes. Just like you, most riders I see (including pros) are riding like this! And I wonder how effective this is...

[sunninho]

I like riding on the tops and behind the hoods. I mostly ride with bent elbows and crouch into an aero position over the tops, like the way a lot of pros do.

I only ride in the drops when pulling a paceline or going into a stiff headwind.

[Ray]

I only ride in the drops when pulling a paceline or going into a stiff headwind.
I'm surprised more people don't mention descending. I almost ALWAYS descend in the drops, not for any particular aero reasons, but I always feel more in control of the bike and the braking, although fine on the hoods, is even better in the drops.

I also ride the drops a LOT in rollers when I'm pretty much always either descending or doing short out of the saddle climbs. I'm never in the drops on long climbs, but lots of the time on short hill-sprint types of climbs. On the flats I only tend to use them in serious headwinds or when chasing really hard (which is a very rare occurance). I spend most of my time on the hoods but with elbows always bent. If I need to be more upright than this, I'm on the tops and generally taking it pretty easy there.

Question for the Jerk and other advocates of the long, low racing position. If the rider is always riding on the hoods with elbows locked, is a long/low setup better than a higher and tighter position that allows longer efforts with elbows bent in the drops or on the hoods? My bars are relatively high and tight, but I pretty much never ride with elbows anywhere close to locked in any position. Seems like both setups get weight out over the front wheel, but one may allow for greater comfort.

-Ray

[toaster]

I ride in the drops more than others. In crits and road races I do it for aero benefits and control. Some coaches advocate being on the hoods for increased visibility and awareness in criteriums but I prefer control and steering precision.

I've time-trialed a drop bar road bike a few times and that is 100% in the drops since it's your only choice (really) for aerodynamics. Elbows on the flat bar is a bit dicey and maybe OK for some sections but not something I do.

In normal road riding I like the drops, alot. But, overall more time is spent on the hoods and the flat bar.

Never, never, do I ride on the hoods or the flat with locked elbows. Riders that do that scare me. Just an accident waiting to happen.

[The Spider]

Absolutely, the only time I'm out of the drops when descending is when I want to sit up to help slow the bike before a sharp-corner / switchback. Other than that it's the drops for me, aero, comfortable, good weight distribution and stronger braking due to the strength of your hands in those positions to (if brakes are adjusted so that the lever is pulled in before pad/rim contact is made.

[Too Tall]

I'm coming in a little late on the thread lost of good observations :cool: I'd add that my bikes are setup so that the drops are the most important position. If the reach and depth are not spot on AND brake levers are not easy to reach from the drops than stem/bar combo ain't right...so that's where it all starts. First and foremost I really need to be in the drops with brakes easy to grab without strain during fast corners. Second, with my hands deep in the drops is my most powerful position for high speed pacelines, it gets my back low and flat and hips rotated forward.

[Fixed]

Bro ever notice that the old racers ride in the drops or hooks a lot more than the younger guys . could this be that they started riding with down tube shifters so there hands were closer to the shifters ? The younger guys seem to ride most the time on the hoods and have their bars tipped up . I ride in the drops any time it gets tough cos I copy my bud Bill Shook who almost always rides in the drops.Cheers :beer:

[Ozz]

just this year I started riding in the drops more...and actually found it more comfortable than the hoods. At first it was a conscious effort to ride in the drops ("those arrogant ba$tards on the forum say I'm supposed to ride in the drops!") and after a short time I found out I liked it and was more comfortable. I think it puts less stress on my neck and back cuz I'm stretched out more

I suppose makes me a bit faster, but have no data to support this...

Also, I think I might need a longer stem.... ;)

[JohnS]

Bro ever notice that the old racers ride in the drops or hooks a lot more than the younger guys . could this be that they started riding with down tube shifters so there hands were closer to the shifters ? The younger guys seem to ride most the time on the hoods and have their bars tipped up . I ride in the drops any time it gets tough cos I copy my bud Bill Shook who almost always rides in the drops.Cheers :beer:
Bars were also generally higher in the old days and the hoods weren't as comfortable.

[William]

Hard to say really.

Decending and sprinting I'm always in the drops.

On the flats I'm either in the drops or on the hoods with my forearms sort of resting on the tops. My elbows are bent and slightly in so I'm down just as low as I would be in the drops....just as aero.

When climbing I'm almost always on the tops....seated climber don't ya know.

If I'm big ringing and powering over a short climb I'll be in the drops.

If I'm on a casual ride I'll switch positions often just so I don't get locked in and fatigued to one position.

William

[Fixed]

Hard to say really.

Decending and sprinting I'm always in the drops.

On the flats I'm either in the drops or on the hoods with my forearms sort of resting on the tops. My elbows are bent and slightly in so I'm down just as low as I would be in the drops....just as aero.

When climbing I'm almost always on the tops....seated climber don't ya know.

If I'm big ringing and powering over a short climb I'll be in the drops.

If I'm on a casual ride I'll switch positions often just so I don't get locked in and fatigued to one position.

William bro I am just like William . cheers :beer:

[Spinner]

I spend 40 to 60% of my time in the drops as my bikes are set-up for this sweet spot. Fortunately, I've never suffered from back problems. I typically choose different positions on the bars to give my hands a break.

I'm always in the drops on decents (with my thighs atop the saddle and my knees pressing the top tube) unless I need to scrub some speed. At 190 +/- lbs., I try to make up in the downhill what I lost in the uphill.

[bluesea]

I knew that the question was a bit too limiting as it didn't allow for the race vs. casual/touring ride variation but even so the percentage overall should be valid. Wht got me thinking about this was what I saw on my ride yesterday. I was riding the bike path along the coast and passed and was passed by at least 200 riders. Solo riders, small groups, big groups in team jerseys, etc. I only saw FOUR riders in the drops.

Actually, I got on the right track at a meeting/fitting w/ Grant Petersen at Rivendell with hints from Douglas Brooks. Jeez, this post is so long it could one of his


I live next to the state university, and more and more over the years I am seeing student commuters who have ratty "oversized" road frames with the saddle slammed down, and the bars set higher than the saddle. When I see them they are always in the drops. The funny thing is, most do not look like your typical cyclist--they look like skateboarders or surfers. I seriously doubt that they read forums, or are followers of the Hon. Rev. Peterson. The concept must make sense.

[Russ]

Question for the Jerk and other advocates of the long, low racing position. , is a long/low setup better than a higher and tighter position that allows longer efforts with elbows bent in the drops or on the hoods? My bars are relatively high and tight, but I pretty much never ride with elbows anywhere close to locked in any position. Seems like both setups get weight out over the front wheel, but one may allow for greater comfort.


A racing bike is supossed to be as stiff and aerodinamic as it can be (among other things), so the rider will save energy as much as possible (among other things); therefore giving the rider the optimal long/low position, with elbows bent. I think Comfort is a "racing" bike quality/feature, which was added by the marketing department to increase sales. Look at a Formula race car driver. How relaxed is he/she in comparison to a regular car? Which position is better and for what kind of driving? When was the last time that Lexus removed all the seats on their cars and put a racing seat to increase sales?

IMO, if a rider has to always ride on the hoods with elbows locked, then the rider should be riding a different bike or should had been fitted better. By the way, when I am in my best shape these days, I am able to sustain long efforts (within my capabilities), on my long, low "racing" positions, better than I could on a higher and tighter position. For one, I am able to breather better; and two, my upper back won't crack! So a "long/low" position is more "comfortable" for me....

However, I do believe that if you put two identical riders on two similar bikes: one tight and high and the other low and long, the low and long rider will be able to ride more efficiently and faster. Who will be more comfortable is another story. I think it's all a matter of physics and kinesiology....

I have been told that a perfectly fitted road racing bike should put a rider's weight at 55% - 45% (rear being heavier, of course), so that the rider can easily shift the weight at will, depending on the situation.

[Tom]

What angle are folks elbows bent when you're on the hoods? I know my forearms aren't parallel to the ground but I know my elbows have some angle to them too. Just curious.

To the original question... a lot of the time I'm on the hoods but a lot of the time I'm not coming down a hill fast or making an attempt to cook along briskly. Strangely enough, the drops are also a really good relaxing rest position too. Hoods are good for climbing or changing around my position so I don't get tuckered out cause I use everything exactly the same way all the time but I've really grown to like riding in the drops this year.

[zap]

Snipped

What angle are folks elbows bent when you're on the hoods? I know my forearms aren't parallel to the ground but I know my elbows have some angle to them too. Just curious.

Depends on my mood or whats going on with the group. If I'm loafing around, there's a slight bend. If I'm out front hammering a bit, my forearms are level with terra firma. So maybe close to 90 degrees.

If I'm riding my D/A equiped bike, I might even put my forearms on the top of the bars and hold on too the shifter cables as if I have aero bars. Just to hurt the group some more.

I like drops too.

Or bullhorn bars....

But whatever it takes to get a level back with terra firma when really hammering.

But what do I know. LA is faster with a hump than Jan's more aero looking position.

Straight arms. Never. :no: Sure sign of a Fred.

[Homsie]

I ride in the drops more than others. In crits and road races I do it for aero benefits and control. Some coaches advocate being on the hoods for increased visibility and awareness in criteriums but I prefer control and steering precision.
I've time-trialed a drop bar road bike a few times and that is 100% in the drops since it's your only choice (really) for aerodynamics. Elbows on the flat bar is a bit dicey and maybe OK for some sections but not something I do.

In normal road riding I like the drops, alot. But, overall more time is spent on the hoods and the flat bar.

Never, never, do I ride on the hoods or the flat with locked elbows. Riders that do that scare me. Just an accident waiting to happen.

Wow, I'm not sure who advocates this, but after all of the crits that I've done, I would never ride on the hoods for the same reasons (and others) that you mention...control, precision and if you're on the hoods, you're much higher up....easier for somebody to take their elbow/arm and bump the bottom of your elbow....which isn't good!!!

James

[William]

bro I am just like William . cheers :beer:

Hey, my Florida brother, to you :beer:


William :cool:

[Ken Robb]

so now I wonder if the people who "never" ride in the drops wouldn't be better off with flat bars, moustache bars, or something else rather than clasic drop bars.

[Fixed]

so now I wonder if the people who "never" ride in the drops wouldn't be better off with flat bars, moustache bars, or something else rather than clasic drop bars.
Bro how about those cowhorn bars that some fixed guys use?The tri crowd used to use them before aerobars came out then they started boltin clipon on them.cheers :beer: