OT: Texting driver drives off cliff....

[William]

I'm glad he ultimately recovered but he will have lasting scars and physical issues.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/video/us/2012/08/02/man-drives-over-cliff-while-texting.khou

Was that a Livestrong bracelet he was wearing? Anyway just another example of how dangerous inattentive drivers can be to cyclists, pedestrians, other drivers, and just about everything around them.

The young man's dad brings up an interesting point: Phones without the texting feature for those 18 and under?







William




William

[christian]

It's unfortunate that tall, steep cliffs are such a rare geological formation. :p

[Ti Designs]

It's unfortunate that tall, steep cliffs are such a rare geological formation.

It's the turtle and the rabbit race all over again. Technology moves so much faster than geology, but look who wins in the end...

[Chance]

Hate to hear lectures from reformed idiots who now make their point only because they screwed up.

Why is it that none of these people suddenly see the light and start speaking against texting, or drug use, or whatever before they almost kill themselves. Do they really think having an accident makes their message more important?:confused:

[AgilisMerlin]

rough crowd today

done rough
till done smooth

[Chance]

Sorry, you're right. A little too critical on my part. Can't relate to texting while driving so it irritates me to see preaching like this. But then the message is probably meant for others who text and not people like me. Somehow don't think it will make any difference at all to either group.

[torquer]

This may be an aside to an OT thread, but for me the problem isn't texting (or cell phones, or brewing espresso, or whatever). These are symptoms of our acceptance of distractions as priorities when we are behind the wheel.

It drives me nuts when motorists offer the excuse that cyclists "came out of nowhere" just before they hit them. As another forumite noted, this should be considered an admission, not an excuse, since they obviously weren't paying attention.

But an even worse example of driver distraction is this:
STATISTICS

Total number of U.S. hyperthermia deaths of children left in cars, 2012: 18
Total number of U.S. hyperthermia deaths of children left in cars, 2011: 33
Total number of U.S. hyperthermia deaths of children left in cars, 1998-present: 545
Average number of U.S. child hyperthermia fatalities per year since 1998: 38
http://ggweather.com/heat/
I haven't heard any lectures from any "reformed idiots" on this. You forgot your kid was in the back seat when you went to the mall?

[christian]

I haven't heard any lectures from any "reformed idiots" on this. You forgot your kid was in the back seat when you went to the mall?

Gene Weingarten wrote a good feature piece on forgetting children in cars in the Washington Post in 2010 (it won the Pulitzer for feature writing).

It is one of the most horrifying and touching pieces of non-fiction I have ever read. I think reading it would greatly alter your perceptions of these tragedies. Some of the situations and tiny alterations in routine that appear to be the root causes make me, as a parent, think, "There, but for the Grace of God, go I." And I'm not particularly religious.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html

That said, I totally agree with your points about "operating" a vehicle. It's one of the things I actually like about riding my motorcycle (I don't have a car) - when I am riding my motorcycle, I am riding my motorcycle. That's all I can do. Same thing is really true when operating a car, but people have lost site of that.

[rugbysecondrow]

I think it is easy to be critical from our keyboards, but I would wager that a camera placed in your car (for those with one) would show a reality quite a bit different than what we purport. I don't think people aren't truthful, I just think folks j aren't self aware. Have you ever met anybody who openly admits to being a bad driver? Everybody thinks they are good, better actually then others...is that really true. For the people who so they pay attention 100% of the time, I would likely call BS. We all have lapses, how do we minimize them? How do we become more self aware?

I think what the video speaks to is important. I had a buddy similarly hurt himself reaching for a tape cassette back in the day, so inattentiveness is nothing new. If this video reaches somebody, kid, parent, friends, who alter behavior, then it is worth it.

[christian]

How do we become more self aware?My awareness came in the form of a 7 1/2 turn 90 mph rollover and a 100mph -50g frontal impact. Luckily both performed in modern race cars with world-class safety equipment. Once you realize the amount of kinetic energy stored in a fast-moving car, it informs your perspective. I won't say I pay attention 100% of the time, but I leave my phone(s) in the baggage compartment.

I don't know that mandating -50g frontal impacts to all drivers is practical though. The mortality rate and vision damage would be a problem.

[rugbysecondrow]

My awareness came in the form of a 7 1/2 turn 90 mph rollover and a 100mph -50g frontal impact. Luckily both performed in modern race cars with world-class safety equipment. Once you realize the amount of kinetic energy stored in a fast-moving car, it informs your perspective. I won't say I pay attention 100% of the time, but I leave my phone(s) in the baggage compartment.

I don't know that mandating -50g frontal impacts to all drivers is practical though. The mortality rate and vision damage would be a problem.

Yikes, occupational hazard I presume. I think your skills and awareness are an exception to the general rule, but I agree with what you are saying. If this kid can use something traumatic to inform others, then maybe it will help.

As an aside, I am not arguing against anybody inparticular, but making a general point about most drivers and their awareness. Most drivers who talk on the phone while driving likely thinks they are good at it, likey the same with drunk drivers or parents with kids in the car.

[maxdog]

It's unfortunate, but I favor a little Darwinism in the world.

[Chance]

I think what the video speaks to is important. I had a buddy similarly hurt himself reaching for a tape cassette back in the day, so inattentiveness is nothing new. If this video reaches somebody, kid, parent, friends, who alter behavior, then it is worth it.

Agree if it works. Not quite sure. Short term probably but in my opinion long term it may be doing more harm than good.

When we base our teachings and learnings mostly on previous failures we unintentionally legitimize the bad behavior in various ways. Instead of a shameful act to keep secret it becomes more acceptable, not less. In my opinion of course. What separates intelligent animals from stupid is that we should be able to anticipate consequences of our actions before they happen without necessarily having gone through the experience in person. Not always but on simple matters for sure. We all know it’s wrong to drink and drive, text and drive, have unprotected sex with strangers, and so on. So why do we need people who failed at these simple decisions to teach us that it’s wrong? Wasn’t it already obvious enough? We all get that a few clueless kids need to be reminded of what happens when we fail at something, but this line of teaching through avoidance of bad examples doesn’t seem to be working if modern society is any indication. For every kid that stops texting while driving it may make another 10 think that many others are getting away with it because they are better drivers, more capable like they are, and so on.

Maybe we should encourage more the positive than discourage the negative.

[goonster]

Hate to hear lectures from reformed idiots who now make their point only because they screwed up.
Smart people learn from the mistakes of others.

[rugbysecondrow]

Agreed, and most people have concluded that texting, talking, doing hair, eating and even driving drunk will not result in catastrophie because it never has for them. What they need to relearn is that their experiences, however fortunate, can result in danger for themselves and others. Will this video alone change the world, likely not, couple together with all he other efforts and education underway and I think it will.

To the darwin comment, folks say that unless it is their kid.

Agree if it works. Not quite sure. Short term probably but in my opinion long term it may be doing more harm than good.

When we base our teachings and learnings mostly on previous failures we unintentionally legitimize the bad behavior in various ways. Instead of a shameful act to keep secret it becomes more acceptable, not less. In my opinion of course. What separates intelligent animals from stupid is that we should be able to anticipate consequences of our actions before they happen without necessarily having gone through the experience in person. Not always but on simple matters for sure. We all know it’s wrong to drink and drive, text and drive, have unprotected sex with strangers, and so on. So why do we need people who failed at these simple decisions to teach us that it’s wrong? Wasn’t it already obvious enough? We all get that a few clueless kids need to be reminded of what happens when we fail at something, but this line of teaching through avoidance of bad examples doesn’t seem to be working if modern society is any indication. For every kid that stops texting while driving it may make another 10 think that many others are getting away with it because they are better drivers, more capable like they are, and so on.

Maybe we should encourage more the positive than discourage the negative.

[goonster]

So why do we need people who failed at these simple decisions to teach us that it’s wrong?
Because an actual human tragedy puts a face on what is otherwise a purely theoretical adverse outcome.

[choke]

That said, I totally agree with your points about "operating" a vehicle. It's one of the things I actually like about riding my motorcycle (I don't have a car) - when I am riding my motorcycle, I am riding my motorcycle. That's all I can do. Same thing is really true when operating a car, but people have lost site of that. I often tell people that I feel safer riding my motorcycle than driving a car and needless to say I get a lot of funny looks. Because I assume that half the people won't see me and that everyone on the road is out to get me, when I'm on the m/c I'm 100% focused on what's happening around me. When I'm driving, while I don't phone/text/etc. I am more complacent and I do find myself distracted by other things at times....radio, HVAC controls, etc.

But then IMO probably 60+% of the people behind the wheel of a car lack the skills to be there. I'd really like to see Driver's Ed. taken out of the schools and private driving schools instituted like they do in Germany. If you want a driver's license then you pay to earn that privilege. That along with a much harder driving test would help to increase the level of competency on the road. I know it's a pipe dream and as long as a DL is view as a "right" things will never change.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

it's unfortunate, but i favor a little darwinism in the world.

+1!!

[mister]

kinda agree with the darwinism comment.

also, this kids story probably won't help anyone much because everyone seems to think the negative consequences will never happen to them...

also, people don't realize how dangerous a car can be, or how quickly anyone can be killed by another drivers bad decisions. yes, the people driving right next to you or 1.5 car lengths back or ahead at 75mph.

[henry14]

Sometimes people just have to learn the hard way.

[learningtoride]

:

[bironi]

Gene Weingarten wrote a good feature piece on forgetting children in cars in the Washington Post in 2010 (it won the Pulitzer for feature writing).

It is one of the most horrifying and touching pieces of non-fiction I have ever read. I think reading it would greatly alter your perceptions of these tragedies. Some of the situations and tiny alterations in routine that appear to be the root causes make me, as a parent, think, "There, but for the Grace of God, go I." And I'm not particularly religious.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html

That said, I totally agree with your points about "operating" a vehicle. It's one of the things I actually like about riding my motorcycle (I don't have a car) - when I am riding my motorcycle, I am riding my motorcycle. That's all I can do. Same thing is really true when operating a car, but people have lost site of that.

Thanks for the Post link. It was a great article.

[Chance]

Because an actual human tragedy puts a face on what is otherwise a purely theoretical adverse outcome.

That theory, which is often stated as justification for helping others overcome their lack of foresight, just doesn’t resonate with me. Would like to think that a person smart and mature enough to drive an automobile should at the very minimum be able to bridge the gap between “purely theoretical adverse outcome” and the reality that they are putting not only themselves but others in danger too. It’s not that complicated to grasp that if you run over a pedestrian or cyclist he/she will likely suffer and or die. Don't see why anyone "needs" a living example of what not to do when it's obvious. If they actually needed it, it just shows they are not ready to drive which is a big responsibility.

In my opinion it’s not about lack of information or being able to relate to real past tragic events. They mostly just don’t care. About others and sometimes not even about themselves. It’s more about lack of compassion, respect, empathy, and so on.

[67-59]

I'd really like to see Driver's Ed. taken out of the schools and private driving schools instituted like they do in Germany. If you want a driver's license then you pay to earn that privilege. That along with a much harder driving test would help to increase the level of competency on the road. I know it's a pipe dream and as long as a DL is view as a "right" things will never change.

They've done that where I live. Unfortunately, the variability between schools can be pretty dramatic. Our oldest daughter went to a driving school we thought was reputable. After both classroom and behind the wheel - and practicing with us - she took (and failed) her driver's test.

We then heard about another school in town that was started by a former cop, and has quickly developed a good reputation. We signed our daughter up for 6 hours of behind the wheel with them -- much to her dismay. But after the first lesson, she came home and said she learned more from that one lesson than she learned the entire time at the first place.

Guess where our next daughter is going....

[Seramount]

Because an actual human tragedy puts a face on what is otherwise a purely theoretical adverse outcome.

in my world, the fact that someone suffers the consequences of overt stupidity falls short of being termed a 'tragedy'...

I could muster a 'bummer, dude' but not much more sympathy.

[goonster]

Would like to think that a person smart and mature enough to drive an automobile should at the very minimum be able to bridge the gap between “purely theoretical adverse outcome” and the reality that they are putting not only themselves but others in danger too.
Drivers are not tested for intelligence or maturity. We give a license to anyone who is
a) 16 years of age
b) not obviously blind
c) able to parallel park without knocking over a cone

I sure would love to have an extended conversation about the assessment of personal risk with the driver of the NJ-plated grey Infiniti who passed me on the right and then squeezed between another car and a tractor trailer on I-81 this morning.

[christian]

c) able to parallel park without knocking over a coneAt least in California, there is no requirement to be able to parallel park as part of the driving test.

[4Rings6Stars]

At least in California, there is no requirement to be able to parallel park as part of the driving test.

Not in MA either. I had to back up in a straigt line and then do a 3 point turn...

[malcolm]

I often tell people that I feel safer riding my motorcycle than driving a car and needless to say I get a lot of funny looks. Because I assume that half the people won't see me and that everyone on the road is out to get me, when I'm on the m/c I'm 100% focused on what's happening around me. When I'm driving, while I don't phone/text/etc. I am more complacent and I do find myself distracted by other things at times....radio, HVAC controls, etc.

But then IMO probably 60+% of the people behind the wheel of a car lack the skills to be there. I'd really like to see Driver's Ed. taken out of the schools and private driving schools instituted like they do in Germany. If you want a driver's license then you pay to earn that privilege. That along with a much harder driving test would help to increase the level of competency on the road. I know it's a pipe dream and as long as a DL is view as a "right" things will never change.

I'm a life long motorcyclist myself and I hear you about being focused on the bike, although there can be moments of distraction there as well. I'll also assume you don't really think you are safer on a motorcycle. There are many great riders dead from the dreaded left turn in front of them.

The problem with driving is we do so much of it we become complacent and most of us never stop to think that it is probably the single most dangerous thing the average person does.

[torquer]

The problem with driving is we do so much of it we become complacent and most of us never stop to think that it is probably the single most dangerous thing the average person does.
+1
I realize this is utopian thinking, but maybe the solution is to make each driver feel as vulnerable as those of us on two wheels; ditch the air bags and go back to those bullet-shaped steering wheel hubs like the one that took out Sammy Davis Jr.'s eye.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCMKVgQfXSZkHf9i6KAFz3XhiLquqO8 v07euwRllq2u-SjnBiS
Hyperbole mode off, I had what I now realize is the great advantage of learning to fly as a teenager, so I could solo in a Cessna before I could drive mom's Tempest by myself. The great lesson I learned day 1 (and I try to apply to both my driving and riding) is to always be aware of other traffic, and assume they have no idea you are there. And it's a total absence of that kind of awareness by other drivers that explains all the texting.
And of course, there have also been reports of airline pilots distracted by too many electronic nannies to the point where they could no longer exercise proper judgement, but that doesn't mean we should go back to DC-3s.

[harryblack]

I don't ride motorcycles and the lots of the anti-motor zealots who are part of current bike craze don't believe it but I've always felt, strongly, that cyclists and motorcyclists are in this together... Granted, there are some effin' insane motorcyclists (hill bombers, 100+ mph traffic zig zaggers) who we want nothing to do with but otherwise... I've had motorcyclists offer roadside assistance and I'd do the same if able to.

re: the cliff, all I can say is GO CLIFF!!

now if only a sinkhole or flash flood could take out the MF's in Clearwater, FL who threw a can of soda at my head...

I'm a life long motorcyclist myself and I hear you about being focused on the bike, although there can be moments of distraction there as well. I'll also assume you don't really think you are safer on a motorcycle. There are many great riders dead from the dreaded left turn in front of them.

The problem with driving is we do so much of it we become complacent and most of us never stop to think that it is probably the single most dangerous thing the average person does.

[choke]

I'm a life long motorcyclist myself and I hear you about being focused on the bike, although there can be moments of distraction there as well. I'll also assume you don't really think you are safer on a motorcycle. There are many great riders dead from the dreaded left turn in front of them.I don't think I'm safer but I feel safer, if that makes any sense. Because of my focus I'm much more in tune with what's happening around me. It helps that I live in the middle of nowhere; a typical 300 mile day on the m/c means I might encounter 150 cars/trucks at most and other than a few days a year when I go out of state the largest town that I ride through has 9k people. I don't deal with near the amount of traffic as many others, though of course the left turn can happen anywhere.

The problem with driving is we do so much of it we become complacent and most of us never stop to think that it is probably the single most dangerous thing the average person does.Absolutely.

[eippo1]

I always like to think back to the base fact that we are only self aware monkeys in situations like this. It's insane that we're all let loose in these high speed metal machines in the first place.