Pulling together a couple of threads...

[tch]

...like Keith's about road rage, the "f-ed up transaction", Kontact's interaction, etc.... It seems to me again that we are beginning to really see the effects of the speeded-up, frantic pace of life brought to us by our technology. The older I get, the smarter Alvin Toffler (Future Shock) gets. The pace of life is accelerating far beyond our capacity to deal with it.

We really love the instantaneous nature of communication, for instance, but it all amps up our heightened sense of awareness and expectation. We need to be ready to get the news, twitter post, text message, phone call, etc. almost 24/7 and spring into action, whether it be on the job or in personal life. This is rewarding ("I know the results of the Olympic TT" or "look, I made the deal!" or "Ok, boss, I'll get right on it"), but we forget that this state of latent excitement is biological. We are constantly flushing low levels of adrenaline and other chemicals through our system -- chemicals that, speaking in evolutionary terms, were supposed to be part of a more rarely used "fight or flight" response. This constant state of semi-excitement takes its toll on us and our reaction -- sometimes not even obvious to us -- is to act anxious, impatient, irritable, and even aggressive much of the time. We may not even notice this because part of this aroused state is a dulling of our sensitivities.

I may be afforded a particularly fortuitous circumstance in being able to live a more calm, even-keeled life than some ....but all I know is that I've NEVER regretted taking a few moments to breathe deeply, clear my head, and let go of a few things. If only more of humanity could do this, our interactions would be a lot more peaceful and satisfying.

[benc]

As a fairly new member looking to contribute to the forums, I'm discouraged by all the complaints and drama. Reminds me of a place I avoid at all costs - facebook

[AngryScientist]

oh, i agree with your sentiment. the popularity of the laptop, tablet, smartphone, they're killing us.

my iPhone was very, very close to being thrown in the Hudson River this weekend.

[CaliFly]

It's becoming increasingly difficult NOT to be a retrogrouch. :banana:

[jlwdm]

I just finished a 37 mile ride and it should have taken less time and been a longer ride, but I kept getting interrupted by work calls and emails. I need to get out earlier in the day.

My clients expect me to be available at a moment's notice 24 hours a day.

Jeff

[br995]

Agreed and well put. Not only does technology drive this need for constant stimulus and interaction, but it's distracting us from real interaction. I can't tell you the number of times I've gotten together with friends only to have the situation devolve into 4/5s of the group staring at their phones. It infuriating, frustrating, and saddening that responding to text on a screen is becoming more important than talking to those who surround us.

[echelon_john]

This is very on-topic and worth ten minutes to read...if you can spare it!

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/30/the-busy-trap/

There's a part that rings very true about inviting someone to do something, say, get a beer on Thursday. To which the modern reply is along the lines of, "Sure, let's talk on Wednesday" As opposed to the traditional response of 'Yes, that sounds great, I'll see you then' or 'No thank you, I'm busy Thursday."

An invitation to commit to a plan is now widely seen as an invitation to discuss the possibility further, owing to growing distractedness and the self-importance that surrounds the appearance of busyness.

[tannhauser]

entitlement drives ambition drives tech drives ego.

work world defines "social grace", doesn't necessarily work outside of it but some think it should.

and so on.

[54ny77]

so true.

This is very on-topic and worth ten minutes to read...if you can spare it!

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/30/the-busy-trap/

There's a part that rings very true about inviting someone to do something, say, get a beer on Thursday. To which the modern reply is along the lines of, "Sure, let's talk on Wednesday" As opposed to the traditional response of 'Yes, that sounds great, I'll see you then' or 'No thank you, I'm busy Thursday."

An invitation to commit to a plan is now widely seen as an invitation to discuss the possibility further, owing to growing distractedness and the self-importance that surrounds the appearance of busyness.

[jds108]

TCH - nicely put! Definitely agree. My work stress is figuratively and literally killing me, but I haven't yet found a good way to alter that pattern. At some point it's going to mean getting off the career ladder and taking a pay cut, and I'm damn close to reaching that point.

In my case, the solution is to shift to doing contract/consulting work, with that catch that I'd like to work remotely. The latter is the hard part, but if I can get that lined up, I'm moving from the bay area to Bozeman...

Too much accessibility, high client expectations, workplace politics (i.e. make oneself look good, even at the expense of others often times).

Hopefully this is a place where we can come to vent from time to time.

[Joachim]

I'm considering getting out of the high level research academic rat race and moving to a medium sized teaching college in the mountains (living in a cabin with the family).

[tuxbailey]

oh, i agree with your sentiment. the popularity of the laptop, tablet, smartphone, they're killing us.

my iPhone was very, very close to being thrown in the Hudson River this weekend.

No need to be that drastic. There is always the trusted airplane mode.

[akelman]

I'm considering getting out of the high level research academic rat race and moving to a medium sized teaching college in the mountains (living in a cabin with the family).

Take me with you!

[malcolm]

We have become an anonymous and technologically proficient materialistic society, but not a happier one. Many studies have been done that suggest that once you have the resources to sustain yourself without undue stress anything you add really does not make you any happier, yet we all strive for more.

Community no longer exists, we do not know or help our neighbors. Complexity and technology have ushered this along. As we've moved from agricultural communities and travel has become easier, we have scattered to the winds and left behind childhood friendships that not to many decades ago would have persisted until death.

Even the smallest thing now takes a fleet of lawyers to create contracts that cover every potential eventuality, reams of paper that even they do not understand when all is said and done and no one person could ever read and comprehend and don't even consider the law suit should something go wrong, because nothing ever happens without someone being at fault and then only large sums of money could possibly set things right.

I've seen a bunch of folks die in my career over the years and I've yet to hear one ever say damn I wish I had worked a lot more and collected a bunch more crap.

Cheers, rant over

[Joachim]

Take me with you!

No problem. We will need an extra cabin for all your silver Campy bits. We can swop bikes too since your saddle height is only 1cm higher than mine.

[FGC]

And for a look at where this might lead us, I recommend watching the movie Idiocracy.

Good thing we'll run out of oil before it can happen.

[ergott]

Find a place near you with no data/phone service. Usually these places are accompanied by awesome riding opportunities and wonderful views. The world is still pretty awesome if you just look for it.

[esldude]

So many typical responses. So useless as well.

As someone said, you got airplane mode, use it as you want to. One way or another being available outweighs not being available. Yeah, it is more frantic.

Also, yes, up to a certain point it is worth it, and beyond that the habit of trying for more doesn't bring additional life satisfaction.

However, what I see is such thoughts have been going on at least a couple thousand years or more. Society evolves, and especially with the impetus of advancing technology mean the pace of change is ever increasing. Young people who grow into adulthood with this don't notice or understand your complaints much. In time, what we now think too invasive and stressful will be the far simpler more sensible times they pine to regain. Just the cycle of life in human civilization.

Pandora won't be put back in the bottle. You can adapt to some extent, and drop what isn't essential or you fail to adapt to. Change is stress, yet somewhat essential. It helps quite a bit to accept and be happy with that part of change that you can. To embrace it where possible and where personally beneficial. To work around and let go of trying for the parts of change you cannot get along with. It is a much freer and more palatable approach than the near universal response of fighting change, describing how the past was best, and becoming a retro-grouch.

When did any of those grouches ever roll back the clock? The answer is it hasn't happened. You can do it for yourself personally somewhat if you wish. Beyond that what most people do isn't even as effective as spitting into the wind. Get over it, get used to it, or get out of it. Don't go around complaining to everyone else how much better it used to be and how we need to get back to those days. You just make yourself miserable and are irritating to others.

And yeah, I am not some young whipper snapper who doesn't want to hear it. I am old enough to feel all the same things. I am just trying to benefit where I can and not become bitter or backward looking. I cannot see that it helps.

[slidey]

Exactly, I mean, exactly my thoughts. Well said :)

So many typical responses. So useless as well.

As someone said, you got airplane mode, use it as you want to. One way or another being available outweighs not being available. Yeah, it is more frantic.

Also, yes, up to a certain point it is worth it, and beyond that the habit of trying for more doesn't bring additional life satisfaction.

However, what I see is such thoughts have been going on at least a couple thousand years or more. Society evolves, and especially with the impetus of advancing technology mean the pace of change is ever increasing. Young people who grow into adulthood with this don't notice or understand your complaints much. In time, what we now think too invasive and stressful will be the far simpler more sensible times they pine to regain. Just the cycle of life in human civilization.

Pandora won't be put back in the bottle. You can adapt to some extent, and drop what isn't essential or you fail to adapt to. Change is stress, yet somewhat essential. It helps quite a bit to accept and be happy with that part of change that you can. To embrace it where possible and where personally beneficial. To work around and let go of trying for the parts of change you cannot get along with. It is a much freer and more palatable approach than the near universal response of fighting change, describing how the past was best, and becoming a retro-grouch.

When did any of those grouches ever roll back the clock? The answer is it hasn't happened. You can do it for yourself personally somewhat if you wish. Beyond that what most people do isn't even as effective as spitting into the wind. Get over it, get used to it, or get out of it. Don't go around complaining to everyone else how much better it used to be and how we need to get back to those days. You just make yourself miserable and are irritating to others.

And yeah, I am not some young whipper snapper who doesn't want to hear it. I am old enough to feel all the same things. I am just trying to benefit where I can and not become bitter or backward looking. I cannot see that it helps.

[tannhauser]

So many typical responses. So useless as well.

As someone said, you got airplane mode, use it as you want to. One way or another being available outweighs not being available. Yeah, it is more frantic.

Also, yes, up to a certain point it is worth it, and beyond that the habit of trying for more doesn't bring additional life satisfaction.

However, what I see is such thoughts have been going on at least a couple thousand years or more. Society evolves, and especially with the impetus of advancing technology mean the pace of change is ever increasing. Young people who grow into adulthood with this don't notice or understand your complaints much. In time, what we now think too invasive and stressful will be the far simpler more sensible times they pine to regain. Just the cycle of life in human civilization.

Pandora won't be put back in the bottle. You can adapt to some extent, and drop what isn't essential or you fail to adapt to. Change is stress, yet somewhat essential. It helps quite a bit to accept and be happy with that part of change that you can. To embrace it where possible and where personally beneficial. To work around and let go of trying for the parts of change you cannot get along with. It is a much freer and more palatable approach than the near universal response of fighting change, describing how the past was best, and becoming a retro-grouch.

When did any of those grouches ever roll back the clock? The answer is it hasn't happened. You can do it for yourself personally somewhat if you wish. Beyond that what most people do isn't even as effective as spitting into the wind. Get over it, get used to it, or get out of it. Don't go around complaining to everyone else how much better it used to be and how we need to get back to those days. You just make yourself miserable and are irritating to others.

And yeah, I am not some young whipper snapper who doesn't want to hear it. I am old enough to feel all the same things. I am just trying to benefit where I can and not become bitter or backward looking. I cannot see that it helps.

It's not that I disagree with you, but is this kind of phrase necessary:

"So many typical responses. So useless as well."

[tch]

....It helps quite a bit to accept and be happy with that part of change that you can. To embrace it where possible and where personally beneficial. To work around and let go of trying for the parts of change you cannot get along with. It is a much freer and more palatable approach than the near universal response of fighting change, describing how the past was best, and becoming a retro-grouch.



+1.
To be clear, I wasn't advocating returning to the stone age -- or some other imagined "golden age". Nor is it possible. What I want to do is encourage people to think about monitoring themselves and letting go of some stuff: thus perhaps gaining mastery over some of our undesirable compulsions and behaviors. Think about how the protagonists in the threads I mentioned could have had different experiences if there had been different behaviors.

[br995]

So many typical responses. So useless as well.

As someone said, you got airplane mode, use it as you want to. One way or another being available outweighs not being available. Yeah, it is more frantic.

Also, yes, up to a certain point it is worth it, and beyond that the habit of trying for more doesn't ......


........ all the same things. I am just trying to benefit where I can and not become bitter or backward looking. I cannot see that it helps.
You've just ranted about people ranting. Which is fine. But I think you're missing the point.

The discussion is not (the way I've read it) "Man, times used to be so good. I wish we could go back. Today's world sucks." But rather - "Things are changing at a hectic pace and it's having a large but often understated impact on our personal and professional lives. This is something that concerns me, that I'm not happy about, and that I want to be more aware of/act upon."

Sure there's hyperbole and a fair share of complaints, but those are part of what I see as a larger sense of constructive awareness as to what's going on. You seem to be arguing that looking at the past is "useless" - that we should just accept what's happening and adapt to it or get lost.

But we shouldn't simply accept mass-shifts in culture and society. Yeah, the world is changing. But we don't know what it's changing into; we don't know down what path it's taking us. And the changes today are happening at an exponentially faster rate than they ever have in human history.

It's not flawed to pine for the past or criticize the present - it's constructive and, I think, necessary, to help consciously direct our trajectory into the future. If not for the world, then at least for ourselves. And I think you spoke to some of this, but it was buried in a cry of, "Things change - get over it."

[echelon_john]

I don't want to go back--hell, technology is what enables me to live the life I do, living out here in the sticks and working with companies in Boston, NY, San Francisco, etc.

What troubles me is how the rise of these 'connectivity' technologies has coincided with a growing lack of civility in society.

Some of the manifestations are literal threats; e.g. the staggering number of people who text and drive. Some are more subtle; e.g. the growing dependence on device-based relationships in lieu of real-world ones, and the accompanying decline in the ability to spell, communicate effectively, etc.

Technology is just technology; it's not inherently good or bad. But it is a great enabler of behaviors that aren't good on either a societal level or in terms of personal relationships.

[Louis]

Wait, wait, there's still a bit of lint in my navel. Let me get it.

There, that feels much better. Ahhhhhhh.

OK, what were you saying?

[Fixed]

I don't know if anyone remembers the days when the man worked the wife stayed home to raise the kids and take care of the house two bedroom one bath homes with one car One t.v. In the living room ,newspapers brought the outside world in evening news on t.v. . ..
Andy of Mayberry kind of thing ..
I do I would rather go with mrs Douglas I 'll take new York
Cheers

[esldude]

Rather than answer each of several posts, I will do so collectively.

My response is to reiterate, what I see posted here about being hectic, being less civilized, being less courteous, change going where we know not etc. etc. is very nearly word for word, certainly concept for concept what you have heard from people at and above middle age for at least a couple thousand years.

You do what makes sense for you individually. The collective change and where it is going is pretty well beyond anyone's control. The perceived decrease in civility seems always accompanied by other conditions changing. And I am not saying any individual fact is not so, it is. Just that in principle this is an old, old story with always the same result at least so far in history.

Saw an internal video for ATT execs the other day on I think ArsTechnica. It sounded like it had been lifted from this thread almost. How pace of change was changing, society changing etc. etc. It was from the 1960's. There is the famous literally carved in stone complaint by a ruler from I think 3500 years ago with the same complaints. Some of the Greek philosophers had the same complaints. It isn't new, it isn't in principle different. Yes the change is exponential.

One might think it cannot go on that way. Maybe at some points humans will be a limiting factor or humans might get improved to adapt as well. I am sure there will be a stopping point for one reason or another. But one is betting against the odds to think that point is now. It always seems now. So far it has never been now.

And truly, embrace what is useful, you will need to limit that from what all is available. And some aspects of life at the latest advances is just too much to adapt to. But do it willingly and cheerfully. It will make your life much nicer vs fighting against it all in vain.

I am pleased apparently several others share my viewpoint. Pleased and encouraged by that.

[Kontact]

Rather than answer each of several posts, I will do so collectively.

My response is to reiterate, what I see posted here about being hectic, being less civilized, being less courteous, change going where we know not etc. etc. is very nearly word for word, certainly concept for concept what you have heard from people at and above middle age for at least a couple thousand years.

You do what makes sense for you individually. The collective change and where it is going is pretty well beyond anyone's control. The perceived decrease in civility seems always accompanied by other conditions changing. And I am not saying any individual fact is not so, it is. Just that in principle this is an old, old story with always the same result at least so far in history.

Saw an internal video for ATT execs the other day on I think ArsTechnica. It sounded like it had been lifted from this thread almost. How pace of change was changing, society changing etc. etc. It was from the 1960's. There is the famous literally carved in stone complaint by a ruler from I think 3500 years ago with the same complaints. Some of the Greek philosophers had the same complaints. It isn't new, it isn't in principle different. Yes the change is exponential.

One might think it cannot go on that way. Maybe at some points humans will be a limiting factor or humans might get improved to adapt as well. I am sure there will be a stopping point for one reason or another. But one is betting against the odds to think that point is now. It always seems now. So far it has never been now.

And truly, embrace what is useful, you will need to limit that from what all is available. And some aspects of life at the latest advances is just too much to adapt to. But do it willingly and cheerfully. It will make your life much nicer vs fighting against it all in vain.

I am pleased apparently several others share my viewpoint. Pleased and encouraged by that.
History has also shown that social outrage can change the course of seemingly unstoppable social/technological forces. Martin Luther started as a guy with some minor complaints. That's also what trade unions, political parties, social movements, authors, painters and industrialists have done when faced with unchecked social change.

You appear to be making the case that nothing can or should be done, but the lesson of history is that attitudes can shape society, and speaking out is part of that process.

[esldude]

History has also shown that social outrage can change the course of seemingly unstoppable social/technological forces. Martin Luther started as a guy with some minor complaints. That's also what trade unions, political parties, social movements, authors, painters and industrialists have done when faced with unchecked social change.

You appear to be making the case that nothing can or should be done, but the lesson of history is that attitudes can shape society, and speaking out is part of that process.

No, I am not taking the position nothing can or should be done.

For one thing, I am sure Martin Luther was quite surprised at where his complaints lead. So he wasn't in control, which isn't the same as saying he had no effect.

Further, all your examples are of people wanting to change society to something different and better. Not examples of someone who is saying, "Whoa partner, this has gone too far. Time to pause things or back up." I don't even agree that effective unions, politicians, social movements or authors etc. were generally responding to unchecked social change. In fact they usually wanted to change it. There are some examples of slowing social change. They usually are short term and don't change the general direction over the course of history.

Don't fight the change, flow with it I guess is what I am saying. You might effect the direction of change, but not stop it I would say.

[Kontact]

No, I am not taking the position nothing can or should be done.

For one thing, I am sure Martin Luther was quite surprised at where his complaints lead. So he wasn't in control, which isn't the same as saying he had no effect.

Further, all your examples are of people wanting to change society to something different and better. Not examples of someone who is saying, "Whoa partner, this has gone too far. Time to pause things or back up." I don't even agree that effective unions, politicians, social movements or authors etc. were generally responding to unchecked social change. In fact they usually wanted to change it. There are some examples of slowing social change. They usually are short term and don't change the general direction over the course of history.

Don't fight the change, flow with it I guess is what I am saying. You might effect the direction of change, but not stop it I would say.
I guess I'm primarily thinking about the industrial revolution. It could have turned everything into corporate tyranny. Marx predicted violent revolution. But a much more even approach was arrived at because people on all sides of the problem took an interest in controlling the change technology was having on society. That control certainly changed how fast as well as in what direction the changes took place.

[jlwdm]

...

In my case, the solution is to shift to doing contract/consulting work, with that catch that I'd like to work remotely. The latter is the hard part, but if I can get that lined up, I'm moving from the bay area to Bozeman...

.

Did you factor in the extra budget for frames if you are living in Bozeman?

Jeff

[FGC]

One of the main points of the original post is that there is a quantifiable cognitive disconnect cause by new technologies that have never been seen before in human culture.

I'm no retro-grouch, but I do value actual human contact. I find the refrain "it was better back in the day" tiresome, lazy and disingenuous.

The question is now how do we move forward and continue to a have a culturally rich society that values interaction?

Why am I writing this over the internet to a bunch of people I've never met? Probably because sometimes casting a wider net will yield more interesting results, which would certainly not be possible without certain technologies.

[rustychisel]

the internet was much better before this thread

[Louis]

the internet was much better before this thread

There you go again, romanticizing the distant past.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7nzO4MTlI5A/T8UjsuZgoYI/AAAAAAAAFwo/ltE1Cpyyqpw/s1600/TheGardenOfEden.jpg

[Elefantino]

If bitching about technology means I have to go back to downtube shifters, screw that. Downtube shifters suck. Why? Because I'm not you.

:eek:

That feels a lot better. ;)

[Earl Gray]

...like Keith's about road rage, the "f-ed up transaction", Kontact's interaction, etc.... It seems to me again that we are beginning to really see the effects of the speeded-up, frantic pace of life brought to us by our technology. The older I get, the smarter Alvin Toffler (Future Shock) gets. The pace of life is accelerating far beyond our capacity to deal with it.

We really love the instantaneous nature of communication, for instance, but it all amps up our heightened sense of awareness and expectation. We need to be ready to get the news, twitter post, text message, phone call, etc. almost 24/7 and spring into action, whether it be on the job or in personal life. This is rewarding ("I know the results of the Olympic TT" or "look, I made the deal!" or "Ok, boss, I'll get right on it"), but we forget that this state of latent excitement is biological. We are constantly flushing low levels of adrenaline and other chemicals through our system -- chemicals that, speaking in evolutionary terms, were supposed to be part of a more rarely used "fight or flight" response. This constant state of semi-excitement takes its toll on us and our reaction -- sometimes not even obvious to us -- is to act anxious, impatient, irritable, and even aggressive much of the time. We may not even notice this because part of this aroused state is a dulling of our sensitivities.

I may be afforded a particularly fortuitous circumstance in being able to live a more calm, even-keeled life than some ....but all I know is that I've NEVER regretted taking a few moments to breathe deeply, clear my head, and let go of a few things. If only more of humanity could do this, our interactions would be a lot more peaceful and satisfying.

This would be a little more meaningful printed somewhere other than the internet.

It is what it is and it is what you make it out to be.

[oldpotatoe]

As a fairly new member looking to contribute to the forums, I'm discouraged by all the complaints and drama. Reminds me of a place I avoid at all costs - facebook

Well, if ya don't like the complaints and drama, then don't participate in those threads.

Like FB(I guess, I'm not on it nor will I ever get on it..not twitter either).

But this is a 'bike forum', ya know, a forum about toys. Not peace in the middle east or heart surgery....toys. I just don't take it that seriously. It's more entertainment than anything. IMHO, of course.

[William]

Civility breaks down when you're not talking face to face. Some people will say things they wouldn't if it was in person. Makes it easier to be rude without the social and possible physical consequences.








William

[Ti Designs]

When did any of those grouches ever roll back the clock? The answer is it hasn't happened. You can do it for yourself personally somewhat if you wish. Beyond that what most people do isn't even as effective as spitting into the wind. Get over it, get used to it, or get out of it. Don't go around complaining to everyone else how much better it used to be and how we need to get back to those days. You just make yourself miserable and are irritating to others.

Another option would be to watch trends, understand the collective thinking and needs of the masses, and invest on that knowledge. I don't own anything that's 4g (hell, I don't even have a cell phone) but I know the need for communication speed is where growth is for the near future, much like the need for greater memory was ten years ago.

I was going to start another thread, but I'll let this just be a side note. The increase in personal communication has changed society. It's becoming a "look at me!" society where people are judged by the number of folowers they have on social networks. It's like everybody standing on the curb screaming anything and everything that's on their mind. At some point, what's on their mind no longer matters - and that's the real loss.

I look at the question "what will it take to make cycling a clean sport?" and I go back to my own racing career. I made it as far as junior national team selection, so I would say I did pretty well. I also know that the kids who made the team cheated. I was given the chance to cheat, but turned it down. So I have to ask, what causes one rider to cheat while another rider refuses to cheat, knowing all too well that their career ends there? The difference is that what mattered to me was in my own mind. Racing to me was first a test of my own ability, and cheating was no part of it. How about the kids that did cheat? They saw themselves through the eyes of the fans who didn't know the whole story. It has come down to a world where everybody is screaming about what they can do, and the way to scream louder is by cheating. In a way, you can say the increase in communication and social media are behind it all...

[Earl Gray]

Civility breaks down when you're not talking face to face. Some people will say things they wouldn't if it was in person. Makes it easier to be rude without the social and possible physical consequences.

William

I've never been on board with this thinking. Certainly not in regards to the level of "incivility" shown on this board. I don't recall seeing much put in print here that I would hesitate to say face to face.

Much worse has been said in meetings at work. I'm considered white collar, the blue collar guys "keep it real" to a even greater extent.

If anything, I feel like this board has a higher participation of "Nancys" than I come into contact in my face to face life.

The things that get people panties in a wad on this board remind me of middle school girls.

I find it very interesting and wonder if it's the type of people that road cycling attracts, if it has to do with geographic or maybe just the type of people that participate on internet forums. The implications that there is any remote chance of being bullied on a internet forum leaves me dumbfounded.

[William]

No, this forum is not a good example of that. It's actually quite civil compared to most large public internet forum. In general though I believe the impersonal nature of electronic media has led to an increase in self-centeredness and incivility.





William

[echelon_john]

So you'd speak like this face to face with females in your family? If so, I feel sorry for you-and them.

If anything, I feel like this board has a higher participation of "Nancys" than I come into contact in my face to face life.

The things that get people panties in a wad on this board remind me of middle school girls.

[Ti Designs]

No, this forum is not a good example of that. It's actually quite civil compared to most large public internet forum. In general though I believe the impersonal nature of electronic media has led to an increase in self-centeredness and incivility.

That's 'cause we know you could kick our asses...

[Earl Gray]

So you'd speak like this face to face with females in your family? If so, I feel sorry for you-and them.

On que!

[d_douglas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermodernity

This is a better description than what I could have made. The internet is largely responsible for this acceleration of this condition in the past 15 years. Not good, not bad - it just is.



Also, see David Harvey - very interesting writer.

[Earl Gray]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermodernity

This is a better description than what I could have made. The internet is largely responsible for this acceleration of this condition in the past 15 years. Not good, not bad - it just is.



Also, see David Harvey - very interesting writer.

We got Darwin to thank for that. As soon as people start thinking they are smart enough to understand creation, it all started to degrade.

[malcolm]

I've never been on board with this thinking. Certainly not in regards to the level of "incivility" shown on this board. I don't recall seeing much put in print here that I would hesitate to say face to face.

Much worse has been said in meetings at work. I'm considered white collar, the blue collar guys "keep it real" to a even greater extent.

If anything, I feel like this board has a higher participation of "Nancys" than I come into contact in my face to face life.

The things that get people panties in a wad on this board remind me of middle school girls.

I find it very interesting and wonder if it's the type of people that road cycling attracts, if it has to do with geographic or maybe just the type of people that participate on internet forums. The implications that there is any remote chance of being bullied on a internet forum leaves me dumbfounded.

You seem to have a certain amount of disdain for the folks on this board yet you have approaching 600 posts in less than a year. If I'm off base I'll apologize in advance as this was just an observation on my part.

I for one enjoy the OT posts. I've been around long enough to know what I like in bikes and know how the stuff I like works at least well enough not to need or want a lot of bike advice, but I certainly don't know enough to give anyone any bike advice. I don't participate as much any more because the vibe just seems different to me, not really better or worse just not as many things, OT that interest me.

[Kontact]

You seem to have a certain amount of disdain for the folks on this board yet you have approaching 600 posts in less than a year. If I'm off base I'll apologize in advance as this was just an observation on my part.

I for one enjoy the OT posts. I've been around long enough to know what I like in bikes and know how the stuff I like works at least well enough not to need or want a lot of bike advice, but I certainly don't know enough to give anyone any bike advice. I don't participate as much any more because the vibe just seems different to me, not really better or worse just not as many things, OT that interest me.
I'd agree with this. I'm not sure what Earl Grey is for, but he seems to be against quite a bit.

[Earl Gray]

... I'm not sure what Earl Grey is for,....

Curvaceous woman that lack moral fiber and have an affinity for older, over weight, balding men!

[Louis]

We got Darwin to thank for that. As soon as people start thinking they are smart enough to understand creation, it all started to degrade.

Yup, some more Fundamentalism and the world would be a much better place. :eek:

[jds108]

Did you factor in the extra budget for frames if you are living in Bozeman?

Jeff

The thought crossed my mind. I think there are three builders in or near town (Kirk, Strong, and Taylor). Actually I'd be looking for a low profile drift boat first. These are the things that I daydream about...

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

"4/5s of the group staring at their phones. It infuriating, frustrating, and saddening."

+1. I've been very tempted to get a cell phone jammer and use it when I have people over. How can you not be insulted, when a recieved text "I'm bored" MUST be read, and responded to, is more interesting than the conversation you're having with me, face to face.

I took a 4 day vacation last year, no laptop, no phone, no email and no texting. Was the most refreshing, recharging 4 days I've had in years.

[Germany_chris]

That would make the conversation you're having not very engaging to the other party.