Fundamental problem -- bikes vs. cars

[Keith A]

I know this has been discussed many times, so forgive me in bringing this up again...but I had a driver clearly state one of the main problems between drivers and cyclists.

I was finishing up my ride this morning and cooling down on my way to the office. The road I was on is in downtown Melbourne...which is a two lane road with shops lining the street and parking on both sides of the road. There are stop signs all along this section of the road and the speed limit is 20 mph.

I hear a truck approaching me from behind (I'm riding about 17 mph) and there is also a guy with a leaf blower that cleaning out the parking area to my right. So I move into the center of my lane as I'm only 100 ft or so before the stop sign. The truck driver, who was a lawn service guy with three other workers in the truck and they were pulling a trailer, continued to come around me even though he was going to be in the oncoming lane of traffic at the stop sign. When he got beside me he starting screaming "Get of the f*&%$@# road". I respond with "The law says that I'm legally supposed to be on the road". He replied with, "I do care what the f*&%$@# laws says, I'm going to do whatever I f*&%$@# what to do!!!" He then proceeded to quickly cut over towards me and at this point we were just before the stop sign and there was a curb there. I just managed to get around curb and avoid getting hit by this yahoo.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=900+East+New+Haven+Avenue,+Melbourne,+FL+32 901&hl=en&ll=28.078597,-80.605862&spn=0.000864,0.001173&sll=28.078351,-80.60534&sspn=0.001728,0.002347&hnear=900+E+New+Haven+Ave,+Melbourne,+Florida+3290 1&t=h&z=20

This was a scary moment cause I knew that he didn't care one bit if he hit me or not. It was also another wake up call for me to realize that there are many people out there with the same attitude and I worry that one day that I might be injured of even killed by one of them.

[tuxbailey]

Did you take a picture of his truck and call the police?

[deechee]

Glad you're ok. I seriously don't understand people who are so angry during the early morning commute.

[Keith A]

Did you take a picture of his truck and call the police?No I didn't take a picture of the truck as I was doing all I could to avoid the curb and not run into it or the truck. This forced me to turn right at the stop sign and the truck sped off through the stop sign. I didn't call the police...what can I say, this guy cussed at me and then moved towards me with his truck? Just seems like a "he said, she said" situation.

[Keith A]

Glad you're ok. I seriously don't understand people who are so angry during the early morning commute.This boggles my mind too. There is no traffic in this area in the morning and it's not like I was slowing him down at all as he had to stop at the intersection. He was just furious that I was riding on the road and not on the sidewalk...which is illegal in this area and there signs posted everywhere, "no bikes on the sidewalk". I feel fortunate that he just didn't run me over from behind.

[Kontact]

I recently read something on the Riv site that I'd been saying for a few years, so it surprised me that GP and I agreed on something:

Being good, predictable cyclists might not be a survival trait. Swerving, riding in a zone rather than line, etc keep drivers on their toes. Drivers should have more to fear when riding around cyclists - even if they are a-holes, no one wants to spend the day talking to police and insurance companies.

[rugbysecondrow]

It seems it is not a Bike vs. Car issue but a dickhead issue. That dickhead just happend to be driving a truck and trailer.

[beeatnik]

Had two similar incidents last week after a few years of harassment-free cycling. Hope it's not a trend.

[Keith A]

rugbysecondrow -- Your right, it really isn't a bike vs. cars, but this wouldn't have been an issue if I was driving a car in the exact same manner as I was doing on my bike. The problem is that there are too many of them behind the wheel of a lethal weapon and we are mostly defenseless if they want to use their weapon against us.

[oldpotatoe]

I know this has been discussed many times, so forgive me in bringing this up again...but I had a driver clearly state one of the main problems between drivers and cyclists.

I was finishing up my ride this morning and cooling down on my way to the office. The road I was on is in downtown Melbourne...which is a two lane road with shops lining the street and parking on both sides of the road. There are stop signs all along this section of the road and the speed limit is 20 mph.

I hear a truck approaching me from behind (I'm riding about 17 mph) and there is also a guy with a leaf blower that cleaning out the parking area to my right. So I move into the center of my lane as I'm only 100 ft or so before the stop sign. The truck driver, who was a lawn service guy with three other workers in the truck and they were pulling a trailer, continued to come around me even though he was going to be in the oncoming lane of traffic at the stop sign. When he got beside me he starting screaming "Get of the f*&%$@# road". I respond with "The law says that I'm legally supposed to be on the road". He replied with, "I do care what the f*&%$@# laws says, I'm going to do whatever I f*&%$@# what to do!!!" He then proceeded to quickly cut over towards me and at this point we were just before the stop sign and there was a curb there. I just managed to get around curb and avoid getting hit by this yahoo.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=900+East+New+Haven+Avenue,+Melbourne,+FL+32 901&hl=en&ll=28.078597,-80.605862&spn=0.000864,0.001173&sll=28.078351,-80.60534&sspn=0.001728,0.002347&hnear=900+E+New+Haven+Ave,+Melbourne,+Florida+3290 1&t=h&z=20

This was a scary moment cause I knew that he didn't care one bit if he hit me or not. It was also another wake up call for me to realize that there are many people out there with the same attitude and I worry that one day that I might be injured of even killed by one of them.

Get his company name, license number and call the cops.

I had a lady purposely move right to try to hit me. I followed her to her place of biz, called the cops and waited till they arrived. Nothing 'official' but sometimes a talk with the driver or the person's boss, does 'help'.

[torquer]

Get his company name, license number and call the cops.
Or save two steps and just get a gun.
Then the cops will come anyway.
And it'll be you word against that of a dead guy.

[Chance]

rugbysecondrow -- Your right, it really isn't a bike vs. cars, but this wouldn't have been an issue if I was driving a car in the exact same manner as I was doing on my bike. The problem is that there are too many of them behind the wheel of a lethal weapon and we are mostly defenseless if they want to use their weapon against us.

Yeah, it's sad, but he didn't run you over even though he could have because deep down he knows it's wrong and there would be consequences. Lately have started to think that an old friend was right on how to deal with these guys. Just ignore them. Don't respond or argue with them because it won't make any difference. My friend doesn't even make direct eye contact with them. If anything he might give them a pleasant and friendly smile. Or says Jesus loves you.

[soulspinner]

Get his company name, license number and call the cops.

I had a lady purposely move right to try to hit me. I followed her to her place of biz, called the cops and waited till they arrived. Nothing 'official' but sometimes a talk with the driver or the person's boss, does 'help'.

+1- some companies care what their drivers do-if it was the perpetrators business there are ways to inform his potential customers.....................

[Keith A]

oldpotatoe -- Good point. At the time, I was pretty rattled and was in survival mode. If I had been thinking more clearly, I could have turned around and tried to see the name of their business as it is usually displayed on their truck or trailer.

[Aaron O]

Agree with the others about contacting law enforcement - especially since there were others in the truck. Idiots get exponentially dumber when there are more than one in the same place. They show off for one another, egg each other on - gang mentality is the phrase I want here. If he's had other incidents, you adding to the record is likely very helpful.

There's nothing we can do to prevent stupid and we can't fight it when we're hopelessly out weighed. Report it and pray you don't see him again after a hard day beating his wife. The best revenge is that this guy has to wake up every morning and be this guy - a bitter, angry bully only capable of speaking in curses and threats. Can you imagine what his life must be like?

[67-59]

It seems it is not a Bike vs. Car issue but a dickhead issue. That dickhead just happend to be driving a truck and trailer.

I agree. I have encountered a few of said dickheads in my decade or so of cycling...but find that the VAST majority of the people in cars (and trucks, for that matter) are pretty polite and respectful. I get friendly waves - and things like gestures to proceed through 4-way stops even before it's my turn - FAR more often than I get negative comments or actions.

My bigger concern with people driving cars and trucks is inattentiveness - soccer moms texting while driving their Escalades, the college student I saw reading a textbook while heading to school in the morning, etc. IMHO, inattentive drivers outnumber dickhead drivers about 100:1.

[Keith A]

Chance -- There is certainly some wisdom in your post. I don't think there is anything I could have said that would have made any difference to this guy. BTW, I wasn't aggressive or angry in my response...just stated what the law says about riding on the road.

[beeatnik]

Get his company name, license number and call the cops.

I had a lady purposely move right to try to hit me. I followed her to her place of biz, called the cops and waited till they arrived. Nothing 'official' but sometimes a talk with the driver or the person's boss, does 'help'.

The driver who screamed at me to get off the effing road stopped about 50 feet ahead in the left lane and waited for me. Normally, I would have been pretty hot but the whole exchange was kind of a blur. As I rolled by (hoping that a gun wouldn't be pulled on me, as this is LA), I began to raise my hands in apology. The driver began to scream again, "fuk, man, get off the road, can't you see I'm going 80!" Then it came to me..."sorry, dude, that cop a few blocks back told me to get off the sidewalk."

[dsb]

Keith,

Please be careful...

My brother was just killed riding SR 3 ...

http://mybloodybikeblog.com/colin-patrick-bateman/

Dave

[rugbysecondrow]

Keith,

Please be careful...

My brother was just killed riding SR 3 ...

http://mybloodybikeblog.com/colin-patrick-bateman/

Dave

Just read that...very touching.

Very sorry for your loss.

[David Kirk]

It feels to me like many drivers don't know or care that cyclists have every right to be in/on the road...........and since they can, and do, run over and kill us it frankly doesn't matter that much. If we end up dead the rest of moot.

It seems like so many people are at their core angry, frustrated and short tempered and anything that gets in their way or infringes on their perceived rights deserves to suffer their wrath. This is bad enough in a line at the post office but put the angry and frustrated guy in a car/truck and the power, weight, protection and isolation of the vehicle embolden him.

You happened to be where the driver wanted to be and he felt that you had taken his space from him so he lashed out. Laws have nothing to do with it. I don't see this greater issue as one of 'bikes vs cars' but instead one of common decency and respect of others. No law will make the driver change. Only when we learn to treat each other with respect will it change and I'm sad to say I don't see that happening any time soon.

Be very careful out there.

Dave

[echelon_john]

I'll just add that if it's a commercial vehicle, calling the company to let them know about the incident and letting them know that you'll be calling the police next can actually bring about more action than calling the police alone. If you have the presence of mind to get the company name/phone number/URL off the vehicle, call and ask to speak to the owner.

The last thing most companies want, especially if they are local (landscapers, painters, plumbing, etc.) is their guys out there giving them a bad name. It sucks that appealing to the wallet can be more effective than appealing to common decency, but that's America.


Agree with the others about contacting law enforcement - especially since there were others in the truck. Idiots get exponentially dumber when there are more than one in the same place. They show off for one another, egg each other on - gang mentality is the phrase I want here. If he's had other incidents, you adding to the record is likely very helpful.

There's nothing we can do to prevent stupid and we can't fight it when we're hopelessly out weighed. Report it and pray you don't see him again after a hard day beating his wife. The best revenge is that this guy has to wake up every morning and be this guy - a bitter, angry bully only capable of speaking in curses and threats. Can you imagine what his life must be like?

[Keith A]

Dave -- You are totally right. It really isn't about bikes vs. cars, it is how we treat each other. As much good as there still is in this world, I think that common decency and courtesy has dramatically decreased in my life time. Unfortunately, I don't know what it is going to take to reverse this trend.

[gemship]

Dave -- You are totally right. It really isn't about bikes vs. cars, it is how we treat each other. As much good as there still is in this world, I think that common decency and courtesy has dramatically decreased in my life time. Unfortunately, I don't know what it is going to take to reverse this trend.

legalize pot, legalize prostitution and free ice cream and healthcare for everyone:p

[Keith A]

Keith,

Please be careful...

My brother was just killed riding SR 3 ...

http://mybloodybikeblog.com/colin-patrick-bateman/

DaveDave -- I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your brother...this is such a tragedy. Having lost my father just a couple weeks before this, I am fully aware of how it feels to loose a dear loved one. My heart goes out to you and your family.

BTW, are you here in Brevard too?

[Chance]

Keith,

Please be careful...

My brother was just killed riding SR 3 ...

http://mybloodybikeblog.com/colin-patrick-bateman/

Dave

Very sorry to read about your brother. Seemed like a great man.

[dsb]

BTW, are you here in Brevard too?
I'm currently in Dahlonega, GA, moved up here about 7 years ago, but I lived in Brevard for most of my life, graduated from Astronaut H.S., Degree from U Can't Finish, Cape Ape, the whole nine yards...

[Keith A]

I'm currently in Dahlonega, GA, moved up here about 7 years ago, but I lived in Brevard for most of my life, graduated from Astronaut H.S., Degree from U Can't Finish, Cape Ape, the whole nine yards...So if I drive up to Dahlonega one of these days, would you be interested riding up some of the gaps with me?

[dsb]

So if I drive up to Dahlonega one of these days, would you be interested riding up some of the gaps with me?

First response... Of course!

Modified response, that reflects where I'm at at the moment...

Of course! If I'm still riding...

I found out about my brother when I came back from a ride, that was Jul 24th, and I haven't been on the bike since. Part of that was from having to go to Titusville for the funeral and stuff, part of it is me not being in a good place...

I know I'll get past this, but at the moment I'm not very interested in riding...

[DreaminJohn]

I've always had this fantasy that one day soon after encountering an a-hole like this that I would be in charge of awarding a large contract and said a-hole was one of the bidders.

Too much Readers Digest as a kid I guess. :)

[Keith A]

Dave -- I had similar feelings after the passing of my father. At first, nothing really mattered other than being with my immediate and extended family. Unfortunately, reality started creeping back in and so I started pedaling again too. The first time I went to ride with my regular group, as I got close to the meeting location, I realized that I wasn't up for the socialization or effort that it would take to stay with this fast group...so I rode on alone which felt good.

Things have continued to improve and I think about my father often and really miss not being able to talk to him any more, but I have started to feel more drive to push a little harder. I rode with a small group this morning and it felt good and I'm actually looking forward to my Saturday group ride...just hope I can still hang on.

[Aaron O]

I've always had this fantasy that one day soon after encountering an a-hole like this that I would be in charge of awarding a large contract and said a-hole was one of the bidders.

Too much Readers Digest as a kid I guess. :):banana: If there's any justice in this world...

I do believe in karma. Not as some mystical force, but as the logical result of bad and good behavior. This guy's ultimate punishment is having to be this guy.

[rugbysecondrow]

:banana: If there's any justice in this world...

I do believe in karma. Not as some mystical force, but as the logical result of bad and good behavior. This guy's ultimate punishment is having to be this guy.



Yep.

[Kontact]

:banana: If there's any justice in this world...

I do believe in karma. Not as some mystical force, but as the logical result of bad and good behavior. This guy's ultimate punishment is having to be this guy.

And sometimes, they are Stalin and there isn't any justice.

[LesMiner]

Before the "Bike To Work Week" I was capturing videos of my commute between using the train and riding a bicycle. I captured an interesting experience. I was at an intersection waiting for the light to change. I pressed the pedestrian walk button. The light changed to green and the walk light came on. I was in the intersection, this woman accelerates and squeals her tires to beat me into the intersection. The car behind her, some guy, lurches forward and I put out my hand and yell "HEY, I am crossing here!" I then point at the walk light. He comes to abrupt stop and I then continued to cross the intersection. I now have the whole thing on my Go Pro helmet cam with sound. I sent it to WCCO TV Minneapolis where they periodically run a segment called "Good Question". My question was, is it legal for a car to turn against a walk light while a bike is in the cross walk. I never heard back.

Minnesota Statute 169.06 SIGNS, SIGNALS, MARKINGS. Subd. 5. Traffic-control signal (1) Green indication:

Vehicular traffic facing a circular green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at such place prohibits either turn. But vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left, shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or adjacent crosswalk at the time this signal is exhibited

Subd. 6. Pedestrian control signal. (a) Whenever special pedestrian-control signals exhibiting the words "Walk" or "Don't Walk" or symbols of a "walking person" or "upraised hand" are in place, the signals or symbols indicate as follows:
(1) A steady "Walk" signal or the symbol of a "walking person" indicates that a pedestrian facing either of these signals may proceed across the roadway in the direction of the signal, possibly in conflict with turning vehicles. Every driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to such pedestrian except that the pedestrian shall yield the right-of-way to vehicles lawfully within the intersection at the time that either signal indication is first shown.


To me this statute reads that I had the right of way. The woman clearly saw me entering the intersection. Had I not immediately stopped she would have taken off my front wheel.

By the way, I did not include this part of the video in the "Bike To Work Week" presentation. Not every driver in every intersection does this. I wanted to make a positive presentation to convince others to cummute by bicycle with or without public transportation. Next year I will add more on being cautious and what to avoid.

[sc53]

:banana: If there's any justice in this world...

I do believe in karma. Not as some mystical force, but as the logical result of bad and good behavior. This guy's ultimate punishment is having to be this guy.

I hear you, and understand you too, but I still feel that's not enough. Because he doesn't give a &^%$ that he's a dickhead.

[veloduffer]

While I have not had a serious car encounter (my wife has, though), I am tempted to get a video camera like this NY Times story "Cameras Are Cyclists’ ‘Black Boxes’ in Accidents" (http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/technology/bicyclists-using-cameras-to-capture-accidents.html?ref=bicyclesandbicycling)