Did I miss something? CSI is back on

[sn69]

the model listing on the main page.

Mistake? Are they back? Are they gone?

[Tailwinds]

I noticed that yesterday. Anyone know what's going on? :confused:

[Dr. Doofus]

so I was gettin some play from

Charlotte Corday when she says

the smart thing to do

(as one of the living has already said)

is have some dude in MN make all those CSi frames

keep 'em in the catalogue

sub-contracted loss-leader thing

so I says

why you talkin bikes?

but you can't put a sock in an ectoplasmic pie hole

besides

she'd marat me

but man is she hot

[Sandy]

the model listing on the main page.

Mistake? Are they back? Are they gone?

Interesting observation. If you missed anything, then I think that we all did. My guess is that it is a mistake, but you never know. Nothing about the CSI would amaze me.

S a n d y

[PanTerra]

Talk about timing. A fellow Serottan asked me where I had heard that the CSi was being discontinued, so I emailed him a couple of links from the foruim, discussing its demise and the thread on getting a last rund made, and then I was going to email the web page listing the models that I had seen w/o the CSi listed. But then when I go to it to copy it to the email, voila...there it is, back again. I thought, "What the...?" I started to wonder if I had imagined it all. :eek:

[Ahneida Ride]

Mr. Kirk has been building CSI's for decades. Let him continue.

Serotta addicts get their CSI.
Dave make a few bucks.
Uncle Ben makes a few bucks.

Everybody is happy !!!! ;)

[dirtdigger88]

Mr. Kirk has been building CSI's for decades. Let him continue.

Serotta addicts get their CSI.
Dave make a few bucks.
Uncle Ben makes a few bucks.

Everybody is happy !!!! ;)


but why not just buy a kirk then- cut out the middle man so to speak-

I am guessing dave would make more money building his own frames- so why sub?

Same for Ben!

Jason

[Fixed]

bro Good point Dirt i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:

[rnhood]

It is a good point but, if Serotta is using a special tube set then Dave likely does not have access to it. Whether it actually makes a difference in the ride is something we don't know.

[Louis]

so I was gettin some play from

Charlotte Corday when she says

the smart thing to do

(as one of the living has already said)

is have some dude in MN make all those CSi frames

keep 'em in the catalogue

sub-contracted loss-leader thing

so I says

why you talkin bikes?

but you can't put a sock in an ectoplasmic pie hole

besides

she'd marat me

but man is she hot

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I don’t know about Corday being hot.

Maybe Baudry didn’t do her justice. Besides, she isn’t portrayed in the best of circumstances… Just make sure she doesn’t get too close to the butter knife.

Doof, I have to ask, what’s the connection between Corday / Marat and the Csi? I’m looking for another tie-in, which I can’t seem to find, unless it’s a purely random association.

Louis

[dirtdigger88]

It is a good point but, if Serotta is using a special tube set then Dave likely does not have access to it. Whether it actually makes a difference in the ride is something we don't know.

ok- since I cant speak for dave or serotta- let me turn this my direction

another landscape company calls me up and says they have a job they want me to be a subcontractor on- I will only supply the labor. but his selling prices is at or near my own price for the job- for him to make money on the job I would have to discount my labor rates well below my normal and occupy all of my labor force- but why- my labor could be doing the same type of job for me at a higher rate of return- I make less money than I should/could

help me FLY- there has to be a term for this- Im just a dumb contractor who sees things in the practicle side

Jason

[mavic1010]

A couple of points...

Dave's bikes are awesome...however, they don't have swagged tubing like Serotta. Is their a benefit to swagged tubing? That's been discussed to nauseum...

Why would or should "Great Steel Builder" subcontract his work?

Well, if it would bring in extra income considering the waiting period is not quite as long as say...hmmm...e-richie...why not build bikes on the side....you build your own bikes...and you get to build Serotta's bikes...

Plus...building extra bikes wouldn't really cost "GSB" that much more, except possibly storing extra tubing...

Therefore, labor is only involved...infrastructure is already in place. In this example, I believe GSB could increase his gross margin return per labor day (I completely made that up) by taking on additional work since I don't think his manufacturing is operating at full capacity. This would be completely untrue if GSB was manufacturing near maximum levels....

Economies of scale.....

But what do I know ...I was only an econ undergrad....I'll leave the technical stuff to the resident PhD.....

[dirtdigger88]

yeah but you speak like an econ guy-

you guys speak of "labor" like its a machine- "Labor" has a family and a home- and likes to take vacation-

it works in your mathmatical world- not as well in the real world

Jason

[csb]

http://www.wga.hu/art/d/david_j/3/301david.jpg

[shinomaster]

yes, for $10,000 you can order a csi.

[mavic1010]

Dirt:

It may be true that "Labor" likes to take vacations and possibly talk to his family once in awhile....what it means is that you have a utility curve different from Mr. "GSB".....basically your level and his level of happiness may be derived from different things and at different levels....

I get a college education and end up using my econ on a bike forum....what a great ROI...lol....

[Doc Austin]

I saw that yesterday when I was looking at the new lineup, and I must say I hope they have changed their minds and will keep the CIS in production. I will probably never buy one because I can kill my current one.......in fact, it keeps getting better! Still, it would be nice to know I can get another if some caststrophic misfortune befell my current one.

[Serotta PETE]

Subcontracting/Outsourcing etc......has been in the headlines for sometime. The original theory was that by outsourcing you would focus on your core business and let someone else do the supporting activity associated with your primary business. Unfortunately as time has evolved outsourcing has mainly focused on saving money by getting the work done cheaper - any of the work!. Additionally this has allowed higher profit and quarter profits BUT in many cases has not done anything toward moving the business to real growth - just better earning for the quarter..

I could go on in great detail on my views of off shoring/outsourcing - BUT it would not change anything. (we could have some wine though)

I truly do not know if Serotta will continue with the CSI. We all love it but few are willing to spend the money to purchase one. Smiley tried to get the ball going for a build but the deposits were few and far between.

Ben has a business to run and a staff to support and pay - - this can only be done through developing and offering products that folks will buy and that he can make a profit on. The CSI is not able to do that (based on number of folks willing to purchase it).

I hope Ben and team do not outsource the CSI for production - for it is no longer a CSI. (might be a good frame but I do not think it would do anything to stengthen the brand (SEROTTA) or to long term improve revenue. There just is a very small inelastic market for steel frames. We love them but MOST folks would rather have the "latest and greatest". Steel is not that.

I agree it is a work of art and the one Kelly built for me is a fine ride - - but I have not met a single person who would trade a Legend or an Ottrott for one!! It is sad but it is fact!!!. Life and bikes evolve..........................

[Dekonick]

If it were outsourced to DK for example it would still be a CSI IMHO.

[mavic1010]

Pete:

Meet the first person, that has gone from a CSI to Legend to Ottrott ST back to a CSI....

I was buying more expensive bikes to emulate the CSI...and then I finally realized...I'm spending way too much money to recreate something that was already available. I wanted lighter, I wanted more flash, but in the end, my current CSI was the best purchase I've made.

[Ginger]

I dunno Pete, the guy I bought my used CSi from told me that he wished he never sold it to me. He had bought a Legend to replace it and wound up missing his CSi....

he bought the CSi back....it helped pay for my Kirk.

:)

Oh, and the CSi and my Kirk are very different bikes. Happily so. :banana:

[Dr. Doofus]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I don’t know about Corday being hot.

Maybe Baudry didn’t do her justice. Besides, she isn’t portrayed in the best of circumstances… Just make sure she doesn’t get too close to the butter knife.

Louis

take what you can get

down here

besides:

star factor

in her favor

[Ahneida Ride]

but why not just buy a kirk then- cut out the middle man so to speak-

I am guessing dave would make more money building his own frames- so why sub?

Same for Ben!

Jason

Kirk ain't got dem Tubes !!!!!

[Doc Austin]

- - but I have not met a single person who would trade a Legend or an Ottrott for one!! It is sad but it is fact!!!. Life and bikes evolve..........................

Well, I own one of each and I find them very similar in the way they ride and handle. If I had to make a choice I am not sure what I would do. I like each one for what it is, and I'm really fortunate to be able to own and ride them both. :banana:

I'm just a little uneasy thinking about what I would do if something happened to it that couldn't be fixed. Or maybe I'll wear the thing out, but I doubt that will ever happen. I would like the CSI to continue in production so I would have the option of replacing it. I'm not wealthy enough to buy one and stash it away just in case.

I do have to say that the more I ride the Legend the more I am starting to prefer it. I've got so many great miles with the CSI that maybe the attachment to it is emotional, but it is still very nearly as nice as the Legend.

[Climb01742]

for me, my ottrott is far far more pleasureable to ride. i miss my CSi not one bit. not even a teensy weensy bit. each to his own i suppose. or as big dan might say, there's no accounting for taste. ;)

[Too Tall]

Don't forget the "environmental" factor...you know flux...contaminants...mutilple skill sets. Your landscape labor is not the same. If you had special equipment your competitor needed or unique skills he wanted to sub the arrangement makes sense in your favor...as it is he could ,by sub'ing your labor, remove your competitive ability to find (other) work. Ben et al have no such disadvantage...win win.

[cs124]

...snip... i miss my CSi not one bit.

a shame...such a beautiful bike...perhaps my favourite, at least to look at, of all time.

[Climb01742]

it surely was lovely to look at. the craftsmanship was flawless. sadly, the ride just didn't float my boat. oh well. but now it has a happy home with keith.

[Serotta PETE]

:) This was a great discussion and very civil. Everyone was able to give their experiences, voice their opinion, and not have a "food fight" doing it.......

Does this mean we are maturing......................................NO,

I hope not....too much fun being kids - But at least we are showing respect for others views................. :argue: (Except SANDY's naturally) :no:

[flydhest]

Pete:

Meet the first person, that has gone from a CSI to Legend to Ottrott ST back to a CSI....

I was buying more expensive bikes to emulate the CSI...and then I finally realized...I'm spending way too much money to recreate something that was already available. I wanted lighter, I wanted more flash, but in the end, my current CSI was the best purchase I've made.

Mavic,

That person might well be me, too. I have a Legend and a CSi. I've ridden Ottrotts and in particular spent a bunch of time on keno's Ottrott ST (which has my name on it in his will!). I love my CSi and have been in precious little hurry to get my Legend back on the road. It's great, as well . . .but not better.

[Sandy]

simply not telling us whether the CSI ( I still think that it is the CSI and not CSi, but that is another story) is a model that is being made or not. I guess one could certainly call and ask. It would be easy for somone from Serotta who monitors the forum to simply say yes or no.


CSi Sandy

[aLexis]

Sandy,

The CSI is no longer being produced. Existing orders are still being built, but new ones are not being taken.

You kids behave this week while we are off at Interbike.

Alexis

[aLexis]

Sandy,

The CSI is no longer being produced. Existing orders are still being built, but new ones are not being taken.

You kids behave this week while we are off at Interbike.

Alexis

[Tom]

You kids behave this week while we are off at Interbike.

Alexis

Oh, right. The kids are supposed to be good when the 'rents are off on a boondoggle?

Par-tay at the forum! Bring yer own beer and stogies! Yee hah!

[pjm]

I guess she really means it this time, she said it twice!

[Brian Smith]

Not all of us are going, in fact only a small minority....

And despite whatever the website is saying, Serotta is not taking any more orders for CSIs, and I have probably only another couple of months left building them. That comes straight from the top. Enjoy 'em if ya got' em.

sniff.

I'll still be repairing 'em!

[Keith A]

Brian -- Thanks for building such a fine machine! I am the happy owner of two CSi's which will not be sold, one of which I've have ridden aplenty and one that should be built up soon.

[steelrider]

The CSI is dead. Long live the CSI. Any ideas for steel lugged frames?

[marle]

I've had my CSI, built by you, for a year now..It has over 3,000 miles and it is a fantastic climber. Thanks for the great build!!