F150 Soon to be Aluminum?

[MattTuck]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303612804577531282227138686.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

better put those orders in for aluminum bikes before the price of the metal shoots up ;)

[AngryScientist]

i saw that. personally i think the idea to replace metal on car/truck bodies is a good idea, but aluminum is probably not the best step.

i dont think it will be too long before body panels start going to carbon fiber. seems logical to me, the economy of scale for producing lots of car parts out of CF would be huge. seems like an excellent cost saving measure that will reduce weight a lot. it's coming!

[kestrel]

If I'm not mistaken, my current 2002 F150 Supercrew already has a rear box made of some sort of composite.

[bobswire]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303612804577531282227138686.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

better put those orders in for aluminum bikes before the price of the metal shoots up ;)

They already have > http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/specialized-unveils-2013-road-line-part-1/233113

[54ny77]

that is nucking futz.

They already have > http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/specialized-unveils-2013-road-line-part-1/233113

[rice rocket]

Aluminum work hardens and fatigues over time...

Will they introduce drive-through truck annealing and tempering for those who want to keep their trucks for more than 10 years?

[mvrider]

In my previous job, I got to work with a major engineering/manufacturing firm that engineers and supplies body assemblies ("body in white", to be exact) to all the major car companies. Weight savings has been a objective in that industry for quite some time, driven almost exclusively by fuel efficiency (in some cases, it's driven by performance, hence the Al-chassis version of the Corvette, or Lotus).

High-strength steel has been used for a number of years to reduce the weight of structural members. Aluminum has been replacing cosmetic, and now structural panels. VW/Audi is probably the leader in Al passenger cars. Magnesium castings and forgings are seeing application as well.

That same company had a major contract to re-engineer tractor-trailers with extensive use of aluminum for a prominent brand, so fuel efficiency is clearly a concern beyond the passenger car market.

Carbon fiber may have its place in the future, but the cost of manual lay-ups is the main obstacle. BMW has a large initiative to develop novel, cost-effective carbon fiber manufacturing, centered around its electric vehicle programs.

Still, steel is real, not only for bikes, so it's not going away any time soon.

[Louis]

Aluminum work hardens and fatigues over time...


In that case, you better stay off every single commercial aircraft now flying.

[rice rocket]

Commercial aircraft get regular maintenance. :)

[AngryScientist]

Carbon fiber may have its place in the future, but the cost of manual lay-ups is the main obstacle.

but manual layup would only need to be done for prototype stuff, once body panels were in full blown production, surely they could automate that process, no?

i'm just thinking of the numerous cheapy CF hoods that are available in the aftermarket, i would think large car companies could improve upon those processes and probably drive production costs wayyy down, i'm thinking less than it costs to produce steel body panels, in time...

just thinking out loud though.

[Mark McM]

Aluminum work hardens and fatigues over time...

Will they introduce drive-through truck annealing and tempering for those who want to keep their trucks for more than 10 years?

Back to the materials properties book for you! Metals only work harden when stressed past their yield point (i.e. permanently deform), so bikes don't work harden in normal use.

All common metals used in bicycles (steel, titanium, magnesium, aluminum) can fatigue during cyclic loading. The key is to design components so that they won't reach their fatigue limit in normal use.

It has been bandied about that steel has an endurance limit (a load limit below which it can be cycled forever without fatiguing), but that aluminum doesn't (even at low loads it will eventually fatigue). But what isn't often mentioned is that only mild steels exhibit an endurance limit - the high alloy steels used in bicycles also has no endurance limit, and will eventually fatigue (just like aluminum).

By the way, the F150 has used an aluminum engine block and head for years. These receive hundreds of millions of load cycles - do you ever hear of an F150 engine block fatiguing before the moving parts wear out?

[oliver1850]

Commercial aircraft get regular maintenance. :)

I was sitting next to Adrian Newey on an old airplane (I think it was actually a 707, the only one I ever flew in). We were sitting over the wing. He was looking out before take off, says to me: "you see all those black rivets?" Me: "yes". Adrian: " those are the loose ones".

Then he told me about airiline mechanics scribing lines in the dust on the tires, so it would appear to the inspector that they still had some tread left.

[dlflemingos]

Likewise in the olden days when smoking on aircraft was allowed, nicotine stains on the OML (outside) indicated an area of concern.

[Louis]

Non Destructive Testing

http://img.youtube.com/vi/6_caR1bkOEg/0.jpg

[oliver1850]

Well, I'm guessing it was destroying something, maybe not the aircraft.

[maxdog]

My new Tacoma has a composite bed. What an improvement. Lighter, No concern with paint finish or corrosion, and best of all, no need for a bed liner.

[oliver1850]

Likewise in the olden days when smoking on aircraft was allowed, nicotine stains on the OML (outside) indicated an area of concern.

Look for the stain emanating from the corner of the window in your DeHaviland Comet?

[Chance]

By the way, the F150 has used an aluminum engine block and head for years. These receive hundreds of millions of load cycles - do you ever hear of an F150 engine block fatiguing before the moving parts wear out?

Aluminum wheels have also been in wide use for decades. Lots of cycles and no real fatigue issues.

The issue is higher costs, not fatigue.