OT: thoughts on the Ford Focus 5 door hatch

[Smiley]

maybe in the market soon and need a good gas mileage car, and Yes I am in the can for Ford caus ethe dealer treats me right.

[tannhauser]

Euro car comes to the US, finally. What's not to like?
Mazda 3 Skyactivs get 40mpg on the highway, as an alternative.

[echelon_john]

now if they'd just bring the 60mpg diesel that's in the EU Focus here...

[tannhauser]

now if they'd just bring the 60mpg diesel that's in the EU Focus here...

better than a Prius.

[echelon_john]

60mpg diesel manual transmission 5-door or sportwagon.

the holy grail of american automobiles.

or just an everyday car in France, Italy, Spain or Germany.

it kills me.





better than a Prius.

[tannhauser]

60mpg diesel manual transmission 5-door or sportwagon.

the holy grail of american automobiles.

or just an everyday car in France, Italy, Spain or Germany.

it kills me.

no kidding. and you can tow stuff.

since we just got the non-diesel version after like 15 years of Euros driving similar, I'll be dead before the diesel becomes available here. Huzzah.

[Aaron O]

I'm not sure what the new ones are like, but we have an 04' and I hate this car. Words can't describe how much I hate this car.

The good - the mileage is decent, it's spacious and comfortable, parts are cheap and it's pretty sturdy (we don't drive much).

The AWFUL - the thing is powered by a lawnmower engine. If you run the AC and accelerate, it sputters and sometimes stalls. It has a hard time with hills. The handling is not good and I don't like its feel.

Make sure it has an engine large enough to power it.

[Chance]

now if they'd just bring the 60mpg diesel that's in the EU Focus here...

This number is so impressive that it deserved looking up. The only reference found using US EPA MPG for comparison puts it around high 40s or low 50s -- still very impressive but doesn't sound as good as UK 80 MPG. Or US 60 MPG. Was 60 your estimate or did you see it somewhere? Curious because the difference between gas and diesel shouldn't be that much on the highway.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110406/green/110409933

[ultraman6970]

Wish we could have more brands in here, the darn policies plus safety features kind'a killed the market. Understandable but this is how we wont see diesel cars or european brands in here at all.

Opel has cars that are pretty sick for example, ford UK too...

Well, somebody should start importing diesel engines and start with a swaping engines bussiness or something. Between you and me if the car is old and doesnt have to do inspection no way they will find out the engine is diesel maybe ever.

I have a Chrysler minivan, would love to have the diesel european model, that is not going to happen ever.

Oh well :)

[VTCaraco]

now if they'd just bring the 60mpg diesel that's in the EU Focus here...

After renting (and LOVING) a diesel Mondeo in France 2 summers ago, I'm eager to give the 2013 Fusion a look (which will be a US-badged version of the Euro Mondeo). Having driven a number of European-only vehicles that felt superior, I hope this is a trend that Ford continues...

Still not sure that the premium for the uber-mileage version will be worth it given the hopeless war we in the northeast wage against winter salt, but I've got my eyes peeled.


Per the Focus, my brother replaced his Ford Freestyle with a '11 Focus this spring and has loved it. It's clearly in a different size category than his former vehicle, but he's boasted of the feel as well as the fuel economy. For reference, his norm is an Outback Wagon; a vehicle that is fairly zippy (relatively speaking). The Focus is the second car for the family, though it seems to have eclipsed the Outback as his go-to ride.

[jds108]

How 'bout a 95mpg equivalent Ford wagon? Coming this fall: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2012/07/new-ford-c-max-energi-plug-in-hybrid-boasts-550-mile-range-95-mpg-equivalent.html

[DavidR]

Kind of in your same boat last month. Bought a 2012 Honda civic for better mileage for a driving trip out west. Advertised at 39 highway. I was hoping for 32 with my wife, two small kids and all our stuff. I'm very happy to report 40.7 miles to the gallon tracked over 1300 miles from st Louis to park city. I'll be driving it back in a couple of weeks so we will see how it goes.

Good luck with your search. It does feel ice when it's full for $34.

[Louis]

Having driven my Acura Integra (WGVEM) for 15 years and almost 240,000 miles (did I ever mention that it's still on it's original clutch, brake rotors and muffler?) my replacement short-list is down to two 5-dr hatchbacks: Mazda 3 and Subie Impreza.

I was recently tempted by a 2005 RSX Type R with only 26k miles on it, available locally, but the 28 mpg highway and premium gas scared me away. (although 200 hp on a small car like that would be nice...)

[Ralph]

Ford decided to not do diesels in this country because they can't make the case for them VS turbo gasoline.

If you take the best part of diesel....direct injection and turbo....and apply that to a small gasoline engine, you get most of the fuel economy of a diesel....without the cost of diesel engine, cost of diesel fuel, and without having to stand in a smelly oil ly pit to fuel them with gloves on your hands. And a gasoline engine should last just about as long as a passenger car diesel. Passengr car diesels are not make like a Cummins or Cat truck diesel.

A new Euro Focus or even the new redigned Escape....with 1.6 L direct injected turbo gasoline engine, or larger Ford vehicles, Fusion, Taurus, Edge, Explorer, with 2.0 L direct injected turbo's are compelling vehicles.

My wife drives a new Ford Edge with 3.5 engine. Her next one will be the 2 L Turbo. More TQ and better fuel economy.

[Onno]

How 'bout a 95mpg equivalent Ford wagon? Coming this fall: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2012/07/new-ford-c-max-energi-plug-in-hybrid-boasts-550-mile-range-95-mpg-equivalent.html


Thanks for this link. That looks like a really interesting vehicle! Good looking, too.

[rugbysecondrow]

Smiley,

I am in the market for a new car as well and I looked at the focus. They seem good but resale is not so good, at least not as good as others. I like the Subaru Impreza. Good solid car, good price, good mpg, awd and they hold their value well.

Best of luck

[rice rocket]

Smiley,

I am in the market for a new car as well and I looked at the focus. They seem good but resale is not so good, at least not as good as others. I like the Subaru Impreza. Good solid car, good price, good mpg, awd and they hold their value well.

Best of luck

I came to the same conclusion when cross-shopping the Focus and the Impreza. Needless to say, we settled on the '12 Impreza hatch, and it's been a treat.

The big selling point (for us) was how much more rear leg room there is on the Impreza (it's nothing like the older models, which are 100% terrible). They are actually usable by HUMANS! Who would've thought.

[rugbysecondrow]

I came to the same conclusion when cross-shopping the Focus and the Impreza. Needless to say, we settled on the '12 Impreza hatch, and it's been a treat.

The big selling point (for us) was how much more rear leg room there is on the Impreza (it's nothing like the older models, which are 100% terrible). They are actually usable by HUMANS! Who would've thought.

At 6'2", I sat in the front, left the seat in the same spot and got in the rear...tons of room. I also saw the new subaru cross trek XV last night, a crossover hatch that gets over 30mpg. Sharp vehicle, good MPG and room for bikes. Subaru is upping their game quite a bit. They seem to be a great value.


I just put a deposit down on a new imprezza WRX which should arrive shortly, so I am stoked to have a sporty but practical car.

[FlashUNC]

Test drove both the Focus and Fiesta when the girlfriend was car shopping. Would have gotten one of those over my GTI if Ford had the Focus for sale in 2009.

[Hawker]

Just got a Mazda 3 and really like the looks, the way it handles and best of all, it easily takes a bike in the back with the seats down. Will the new Focus handle a bike, I would think so?

I've always had Camrys and Accords and I do think the quality of the plastics and overall fit and finish is just a smidge below the Hondas and Toyotas. I would suspect the Ford might be in the same class as Mazda in that regard. If the Civic would have come in a hatch, I would have purchased that.

[benb]

Having driven my Acura Integra (WGVEM) for 15 years and almost 240,000 miles (did I ever mention that it's still on it's original clutch, brake rotors and muffler?) my replacement short-list is down to two 5-dr hatchbacks: Mazda 3 and Subie Impreza.

I was recently tempted by a 2005 RSX Type R with only 26k miles on it, available locally, but the 28 mpg highway and premium gas scared me away. (although 200 hp on a small car like that would be nice...)

Good thing you passed on it. I have a 2005 RSX Type S.. there was never an RSX Type R imported into the US any year between 2002-2006. If the owner was misrepresenting the trim level that was probably not a car you wanted to buy. Someone who would swap badges, etc.. was probably not treating the car terribly well.

But anyway, my car gets 28-30mpg in mixed driving like clockwork, and has for the entire 120k miles I've been driving it. (They're rated 24mpg city, 31mpg highway, or at least they were back then.) It's a pretty cheap car to own for it's performance level. You start moving up to cars with V-6s that have 250+ HP you are very quickly looking at cars that average closer to 20mpg in mixed driving and have more expensive routine maintenance. (The RSX, like the Integra, might as well be a Civic in terms of maintenance expenses.)

I know I'm going to need a bigger/more practical car in the future, I really like hatchbacks.. I have a feeling I will end up with a Prius V. Diesel never really impresses me much given you're just getting that mileage by putting more dense/expensive fuel in spewing extra particulates the whole time. We also definitely don't have diesel at every gas station in MA/NH/VT where I do the majority of my driving. I had a Ford Focus before I bought my RSX, that thing was an utter POS, Ford could never keep it working, and they basically said "**** you" when they kept repairing the same thing and I asked why they couldn't fix it. I know Ford has made a lot of strides and their new cars are night and day compared to their old ones but it takes a long time for such bad memories to fade. I sold mine with 50k on it after it had been in for 10 warranty repairs that most likely exceeded the sticker price of the car. The engine had been pulled 5X, I had 5 water pump replacements, multiple sensor failures, a leaky gas tank, and finally a steering arm failure. It also never got better then 25mpg average the entire time I had it despite it only being 130hp.

[Chance]

How 'bout a 95mpg equivalent Ford wagon? Coming this fall: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2012/07/new-ford-c-max-energi-plug-in-hybrid-boasts-550-mile-range-95-mpg-equivalent.html

Ford’s MPG numbers and pricing seem to make it very difficult to justify the plug-in hybrid compared to the regular hybrid version. If an owner drove the full plug-in range of 20 miles every single day of the year he’d end up driving about 7,000 miles on electricity. Using 7,000 miles as a comparison, the hybrid at 47 MPG city would use about 150 gallons per year. The plug-in at 95 MPG equivalent would use about 75 gallons. The annual savings of 75 gallons at $4 would save the owner about $300 per year. Considering the $7,700 premium for the plug-in, it would take at least 25 years to recoup the investment.

[rice rocket]

Ford’s MPG numbers and pricing seem to make it very difficult to justify the plug-in hybrid compared to the regular hybrid version. If an owner drove the full plug-in range of 20 miles every single day of the year he’d end up driving about 7,000 miles on electricity. Using 7,000 miles as a comparison, the hybrid at 47 MPG city would use about 150 gallons per year. The plug-in at 95 MPG equivalent would use about 75 gallons. The annual savings of 75 gallons at $4 would save the owner about $300 per year. Considering the $7,700 premium for the plug-in, it would take at least 25 years to recoup the investment.

There should be a pretty hefty tax rebate with that too, no?

[Chance]

There should be a pretty hefty tax rebate with that too, no?

Even if someone gave you the car for free, doesn't someone have to pay for it? Your neighbors perhaps?

Not to get political here, just saying it appears to be an inefficient design at a very high cost premium to achieve what it does. If most buyers get it because they are thinking of saving the planet, my guess is that there are much better ways to spend (or invest?:rolleyes:) $7,700 to save $300 a year, regardless of who is paying the bill.

[zap]

VW Golf diesel

or

Honda Civic NatGas with filling station in your garage.

but......

you are going to purchase the Ford.

By the way, published mileage figures for gasoline automobiles are for ethanol free gas only. Good luck finding ethanol free gasoline in Merrland........so figure mileage about 10% worse than published numbers.

[Louis]

Good thing you passed on it. I have a 2005 RSX Type S.. there was never an RSX Type R imported into the US any year between 2002-2006. If the owner was misrepresenting the trim level that was probably not a car you wanted to buy. Someone who would swap badges, etc.. was probably not treating the car terribly well.

That was probably a typo on my part. I'll have to go back and check the listing.

BTW, they were / are asking $14.5k, which is below KBB, but when I compare it to a brand-new base model Impreza hatch, which is less than $18k, it's tough to convince myself that it's a deal.

[fiamme red]

Having driven my Acura Integra (WGVEM) for 15 years and almost 240,000 miles (did I ever mention that it's still on it's original clutch, brake rotors and muffler?) my replacement short-list is down to two 5-dr hatchbacks: Mazda 3 and Subie Impreza.I just opened this thread, feeling sure that there was no way Louis could have passed up the opportunity of once again mentioning his Integra. I was right. :crap: :rolleyes: :)

[Louis]

I just opened this thread, feeling sure that there was no way Louis could have passed up the opportunity of once again mentioning his Integra. I was right. :crap: :rolleyes: :)

Glad I didn't disappoint you. ;)

[zap]

s (did I ever mention that it's still on it's original clutch, brake rotors and muffler?)
..)

You must drive like a great grandma.......and drive slower than I ride......at least how I rode 4+years ago.

[pjm]

I've been looking at 5-door hatches myself, pretty much all of the cars mentioned so far. Went to look at the VW Golf, when the new Passat caught my eye, especially the sticker price. It was a nice silver base model car with the 5 cyl. gas engine and a manual trans. for $20,700. About $1K less than the Golf. Its just a lot of car for the money IMHO. It seems to be built like a tank, has a huge pass thru with the rear seat folded (bike should fit in easily) and VW currently has 0% financing on all gas powered cars. I'm very tempted....

Some thoughts on the others I've looked at-

Golf - Can't get a stick in the 5-door version - (buzzer sound)

Imprezza- I liked it but has the tinniest feel of all. I shut the console storage compartment door and there was a ringing resonance through the entire body of the car.

Focus - the first one I sat in had an ill fitting piece of trim on the console that would not stay in place when I tryed to push it back. Bad impression right off the bat.

Mazda 3 Skyactive - my favorite of the 5-door hatches. If I can only get past the looks.

[skijoring]

Glad I didn't disappoint you. ;)

No, where is that built up Kirk? :)

[Louis]

You must drive like a great grandma.......and drive slower than I ride......at least how I rode 4+years ago.

I used to do jackrabbit starts from the line, but have grown up and stopped. It's basically a very well designed and made car.

No, where is that built up Kirk? :)

I've been too busy doing new-car research. ;)

[jds108]

Ford’s MPG numbers and pricing seem to make it very difficult to justify the plug-in hybrid compared to the regular hybrid version. If an owner drove the full plug-in range of 20 miles every single day of the year he’d end up driving about 7,000 miles on electricity. Using 7,000 miles as a comparison, the hybrid at 47 MPG city would use about 150 gallons per year. The plug-in at 95 MPG equivalent would use about 75 gallons. The annual savings of 75 gallons at $4 would save the owner about $300 per year. Considering the $7,700 premium for the plug-in, it would take at least 25 years to recoup the investment.

I'm not completely following your math. If an owner is driving 20mi/day, there is (theoretically) zero gas consumption on the plug-in vehicle with a 20mi range. So I'm thinking a $600/year difference. I think a person will have to see what kinds of gov't rebates are in play as well as what dealers are actually willing to sell for to figure out the true price differential. It still could be too much when doing the cost analysis.

I'm just happy to see domestic automakers stepping up their game in the high mpg market. It'll be nice to own a vehicle where I no longer ever think about the price of gas.

[rugbysecondrow]

I'm not completely following your math. If an owner is driving 20mi/day, there is (theoretically) zero gas consumption on the plug-in vehicle with a 20mi range. So I'm thinking a $600/year difference. I think a person will have to see what kinds of gov't rebates are in play as well as what dealers are actually willing to sell for to figure out the true price differential. It still could be too much when doing the cost analysis.

I'm just happy to see domestic automakers stepping up their game in the high mpg market. It'll be nice to own a vehicle where I no longer ever think about the price of gas.


Then you get to dread your utility bill each month.

[Chance]

I'm not completely following your math. If an owner is driving 20mi/day, there is (theoretically) zero gas consumption on the plug-in vehicle with a 20mi range. So I'm thinking a $600/year difference. I think a person will have to see what kinds of gov't rebates are in play as well as what dealers are actually willing to sell for to figure out the true price differential. It still could be too much when doing the cost analysis.

I'm just happy to see domestic automakers stepping up their game in the high mpg market. It'll be nice to own a vehicle where I no longer ever think about the price of gas.

What Rugby said, the electricity is not free. The 95 MPG equivalent on electricity is based on an estimated energy equivalent between gasoline and electricity. For zero fuel consumption the car would need a rating of "infinite" MPG equivalent, not 95 MPGe.

[rugbysecondrow]

What Rugby said, the electricity is not free. The 95 MPG equivalent on electricity is based on an estimated energy equivalent between gasoline and electricity. For zero fuel consumption the car would need a rating of "infinite" MPG equivalent, not 95 MPGe.

As an aside, is our grid even capable of accommodating a proliferation of electric cars? The NYC black out a few years ago seem to indicate that we were pushing the limits. At what point would we solve one problem but cause another very serious one?

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

The Focus has made leaps and bounds in every dept. in my opinion. Still not on par with a Honda Civic, IMO, but getting there. Bravo Ford.

[sevencyclist]

I have looked at Focus 5 door along with Hyundai Elantra GT 5 doors, Kia Soul, and Mazda CX5. Slight difference in sizes, but the gas mileages are all decent with good drive dynamics. Closest comparison is the Hyundai Elantra GT.

[Plum Hill]

Euro car comes to the US, finally. What's not to like?
That is doesn't come in a 2 door coupe. I may be in a minority, but I know many folks that have no use for those back doors.

[zap]

As an aside, is our grid even capable of accommodating a proliferation of electric cars?

No.

I was thinking about this when our power was out for 2 day's last month-many were out 'til after July 4th, so 6 day's with zip. Hell, we lose power when there is no breeze and the sky is blue.

Natural gas baby :banana:

[zap]

I used to do jackrabbit starts from the line, but have grown up and stopped. It's basically a very well designed and made car.



Brakes...........

[cnighbor1]

The ford 2005 ZX5 I got for my daugther has a bigger or more powerful engine and it has plenty of power and zip even with AC on
I wonder why yours is such a dud
Charles
PS I would wait a bit to buy a new one to get bugs out Auto Matic has been noted to hunt a lot of correct gearing ford now reprograming them

[dd74]

My local Ford dealer let me drive a standard, plain Jane Focus that had more than enough power and handling for good driving fun. I think the five-door hatchback is the best looking car in its class. The Focus ST looks fun.

[dd74]

The diesel scenario in re. to American motorists and American car companies is one of "We'll tell you what you can buy and like it." There's no viable excuse for Ford, GM and Chrysler (particularly as they're owned by Fiat who build some of the best diesels in the world) to not give us diesels. Diesels are extremely powerful, get high mileage and give off almost zero emissions.

Every diesel owner I know vows they'll never go back to gasoline power. Sadly, the only choices we have are Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW. Funny how it's only the Germans who have the guts to market diesels in the U.S., and doing quite well profit-wise with their diesels.

[tannhauser]

That is doesn't come in a 2 door coupe. I may be in a minority, but I know many folks that have no use for those back doors.

Ya don't gotta open the other doors!

[jhat]

I had a Focus 4 door as a rental recently and I have test driven a manual transmission. I will say that I really hate the auto trans in the new Focus (actually a twin disc clutch automated manual) in the car. It would really hunt around for gears seemingly changing gears for no reason as it randomly selected gears. The rental had around 4000 miles and already suffered from clutch chatter if you stood on the accelerator. It seemed to release the clutch at the same rate no matter how much you pressed the accelerator pedal. If you really stood on it, it did not release the clutch quick enough.

The overall acceleration was fine for the car and I liked most of the experience of driving the car but if I were seriously considering the car, I would only look at the manual transmission, the auto is not ready for prime time. The interesting thing is when I returned from my trip, I got into my 05 Civic for my drive home from the airport. Other than the car's lack of horsepower, I preferred the directness of the Civic over the Focus. The overall driving experience of the Focus is muted to say the least.

As others have noted, I also prefer the Impreza over the Focus and I would choose the manual transmission over the CVT but that is just because I prefer manuals not that the CVT could not get the job done.

My vote is the Impreza over the Focus but I have not driven the current gen Civic for comparison.

[benb]

For a car like a focus a DCT seems insanely nuts. It's not a sports car.. give it a CVT for fuel economy or a classic manual for cost/low maintenance.

I haven't driven the impreza but I have driven the new legacy with the CVT a considerable amount and I am totally sold on the CVT for any car that is not focused primarily on sport. The legacy is a relatively big car and it turns in pretty fantastic mileage with the CVT, and that is with the AWD penalty!

(I really really hate traditional automatics too FWIW.)

My RSX was hit pretty hard while parked in january.. I had a 2012 fiesta hatchback rental and put about 1000 miles on that.. it was an amazingly better car then my 2001 focus was. It's about the same size as the original 3-door focus, just a bit less trunk space, about as fast, handled a little better, but it got 40+ mpg average as opposed to the 25ish my focus regularly turned in.

[acorn_user]

The new Focus is pretty highly regarded in Europe, probably much more so than the Impreza or Civic (neither of which sell in particularly large numbers). I drove the new Fiesta around Slovenia this summer, and it was great, even with a 1.2l engine and 4 passengers and bags. If the Focus is anything like that, it should be a great car.

[Chance]

For a car like a focus a DCT seems insanely nuts. It's not a sports car.. give it a CVT for fuel economy or a classic manual for cost/low maintenance.

I haven't driven the impreza but I have driven the new legacy with the CVT a considerable amount and I am totally sold on the CVT for any car that is not focused primarily on sport. The legacy is a relatively big car and it turns in pretty fantastic mileage with the CVT, and that is with the AWD penalty!


Don't get why DCTs are insanely nuts.:confused:

DCTs are replacing traditional autos because they are better, and CVTs still have limitations. Like higher torque engines. DCTs were very costly so first used on expensive sports cars, but that doesn't mean that's all they are good for.

[stien]

My brother is thinking about a new car and has the Focus and the new Impreza wagon on his list.

I just bought a '12 Impreza hatch and LOVE it. Manual transmission and I get 40mpg WITH awd! Test drive one with the premium package, you'll take it home.

[Louis]

Test drive one with the premium package, you'll take it home.

I would love to, but the stupid St Louis dealers don't have any available to test-drive!!!

I've called them and asked (this was a few months ago) and 1) they have practically nothing in inventory (but one or two "in transit"), and 2) nothing available to test-drive. This brought my new-car search to a screeching halt, and I haven't been able to get motivated since. I ask the salespeople "How do you expect me to buy a car from you without even being able to test drive it?" and all they can do is say "Try another dealership." So my response to them is "Wow, it sure seems to me like you folks really aren't interested in selling me a new car." This really turned me off Subaru, but I have not yet taken the Impreza off my list. If I do, then the Mazda 3 will be my only other choice...

[rugbysecondrow]

I would love to, but the stupid St Louis dealers don't have any available to test-drive!!!

I've called them and asked (this was a few months ago) and 1) they have practically nothing in inventory (but one or two "in transit"), and 2) nothing available to test-drive. This brought my new-car search to a screeching halt, and I haven't been able to get motivated since. I ask the salespeople "How do you expect me to buy a car from you without even being able to test drive it?" and all they can do is say "Try another dealership." So my response to them is "Wow, it sure seems to me like you folks really aren't interested in selling me a new car." This really turned me off Subaru, but I have not yet taken the Impreza off my list. If I do, then the Mazda 3 will be my only other choice...

I was able to test drive a used 2011 model of the Subaru WR. The deposit I put down is fully refundable if I decide not to purchase the car. This was piece of mind that I could see and drive the car before I sign on the dotted line.

Another car I like is the Audi A3. Was that one on your list?

[Louis]

Another car I like is the Audi A3. Was that one on your list?

Early on it was, and I do like the styling, but it did not make the "final" list.

As best I can tell, the Audi's are not that reliable. (or have spotty reliability, some OK, others really not that good) Combine that with the "German car yuppie factor" and the price premium you have to pay to get that, and it was pretty easy to eliminate it from consideration.

[stien]

I would love to, but the stupid St Louis dealers don't have any available to test-drive!!!

I've called them and asked (this was a few months ago) and 1) they have practically nothing in inventory (but one or two "in transit"), and 2) nothing available to test-drive. This brought my new-car search to a screeching halt, and I haven't been able to get motivated since. I ask the salespeople "How do you expect me to buy a car from you without even being able to test drive it?" and all they can do is say "Try another dealership." So my response to them is "Wow, it sure seems to me like you folks really aren't interested in selling me a new car." This really turned me off Subaru, but I have not yet taken the Impreza off my list. If I do, then the Mazda 3 will be my only other choice...

That is truly an annoyance. Have you tried slightly out of the area? The dealer I went through only had automatics so I had them order me custom a manual. They take a long time to come in. Very popular car for a reason. I also see an absolute ton of the new Legacies.

[gavingould]

Sorry to steer away a bit, but anyone got an opinion of the 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT?

I realize the "GT" bit is a horrible misnomer for what's basically a non-sporting economy car, but man do they equip these pretty nice. Considering one to replace my aging/rusting 2001 Elantra sedan, which I bought new and has been fairly problem-free. Still have yet to see the car firsthand, not to the point of hitting the dealers yet.

Actually I'm hoping someone will just give me a VW Sportwagen TDI.