Review - Velocity A23s

[bikerboy337]

Thought I'd post my initial review of a set of Velocity A23s I just had built up from Echelon John. To begin, I'm 170lbs and wanted a nice set of wheels for training year round. I had decide on A23s, he reccommended a 28/32 build with Velocity hubs and Sapim Race/Laser (rear DS) spokes. Build was all black.

This is my first foray into 23mm rims to begin with. I have ridden Campy Zondas for quite a few years (2006, 2007 and 2011 versions in the stable) and Campagnolo Shamal Two-Ways. I've loved all these wheels but figured for my training, everyday wheels, I wanted something a little more standard.

I mated the wheels with Conti 4000s 25mm tires (thanks to Tom P for a great deal) and standard tubes. The ride so far is amazing, there is not much else to say. I've been running these at 90/95 psi for now and will play with the pressure a bit to dial it in. The wheels are stiff, light and strong. They dont jump as quickly as my Shamals, but all in all they ride so so smooth. Riding the chip seal around here is so smooth now. Unfortunately I've been battling abdomen pain the past week or so (likely hernia), so I haven't really had the chance to hammer, but I have about 150 miles on them so far and I couldn't be happier. I was a tiny bit nervous about the velocity hubs, but so far they are smooth as butter, quiet and no issues. The wheels built up lighter than my Zondas and only slightly heavier than my Shamals.

I'll post a longer and better review in about a month once i get a good amount of miles on it (unless I need surgery, ugh)... in any event, Echelon John was great to work with and delivered with a really nice set of wheels for me.

My only complaint would be the graphics on the Rims.... its just a cheap little sticker on there. To be honest, its not an issue as I like to desticker my rims anyways, especially a training wheelset, but if I have a grip, I guess thats it.

[Nelson99]

Ive been looking to build a set of these and am grateful to hear about your experience with them.

How well does the 25 fit on the front? Any sign of the sidewall collapsing in corners? I have been hoping to run 25s front and back, but have found 25s on narrower rims unacceptable up front.

Thanks!

[bikerboy337]

The 25s fit great. Like I said, due to my abdomen, I haven't been able to ride these really hard yet, but in what I've experience, no issues with teh tires or sidewalls at all... they've stuck to turns and are so so smooth over the rough stuff with no loss in speed from the 23s i'm used to riding.

[dave thompson]

I also have a set of A23 wheels built for me by EchelonJohn and am very satisfied with them. I've run 25MM tires on them and currently run 28MM tires on them. In both cases there's been no issues with the tires folding over in hard fast cornering. Wider tires and wider rims are a true match, made for each other.

[jeduardo]

Sorry to hijack this A23 thread, but it seems several of you have had nice experiences with the wider road rim (I have under 200mi on my A23 @ this point so not qualified to review), but I was curious if anyone has similar positive experiences with the Major Tom (23mm wide)?
I'm flirting with the idea of going w/Tubs on my DR road bike for next month's D2r2. Once again apologies for hijack:o

[tele]

Sorry to hijack this A23 thread, but it seems several of you have had nice experiences with the wider road rim (I have under 200mi on my A23 @ this point so not qualified to review), but I was curious if anyone has similar positive experiences with the Major Tom (23mm wide)?
I'm flirting with the idea of going w/Tubs on my DR road bike for next month's D2r2. Once again apologies for hijack:o

not an exact match but I have ridden my A23 wheels (from John) on some of the D2R2 roads with Ruffy Tuffy's and they have worked very well. I dont see why the tubs wouldnt be equally at home.

[echelon_john]

Hey there,
The Major Toms are great rims for CX, but I don't recommend them for road tires. The tire bed profile is quite shallow, meaning that anything under a 30-32 in width is not going to get optimal glue adhesion at the edges of the rim.

People definitely use them with road tires, but if folks want a wider tubular rim for both road and 'cross, I try to steer them to the HED Belgium tubular (when available) because the tire bed profile is more versatile and provides better edge-to-edge glue contact with road tires, esp. 25-27 wide like FMB or Challenge Paris Roubaix.

Cheers,
John

Sorry to hijack this A23 thread, but it seems several of you have had nice experiences with the wider road rim (I have under 200mi on my A23 @ this point so not qualified to review), but I was curious if anyone has similar positive experiences with the Major Tom (23mm wide)?
I'm flirting with the idea of going w/Tubs on my DR road bike for next month's D2r2. Once again apologies for hijack:o

[saab2000]

Wide tubular rims and wide clincher rims do not serve the same purpose. Beware. The comment about the shallow concave section on the Major Toms is spot on. Tire adhesion is a big deal.

I have tried some A23s and remain ambivalent. But the build I went with is likely heavier than it needs to be. Additionally, I am using heavy tires and tubes. So I don't disagree with the assessment that wider rims have a place in the clincher world. But I also don't really think they're the solution to all the world's problems either.

I have about 1000 miles on mine and they're OK but not as nice as my tubulars.

That said, the larger contact patch is decent enough on bad roads and from a point of view of 'shock absorption' I would rate them fairly highly. But there is no free lunch. 25 mm tires are heavier. 23 mm rims are heavier. So the wheels feel some what sluggish.

If I were to do it again I would use 28/24 as my build. My current build is 32/28.

Supposedly Velocity is coming out with an offset A23 for rear rims. This, combined with the hubs designed to deal with the offset issue (Alchemy for example, or Velocity's own hubs), have the potential to produce a nearly symmetrical rear wheel. Now we're talking.

Build a set of 28/24s with some appropriate spokes, alloy nipples, light clincher tires and latex tubes and you might be getting close to a set of quality tubular.

Or you can just get a set of tubulars, sit at the cool kids' table and call it good! :cool:

I think there is some evolution still to come in the wide rim world. But I'm not convinced that they really produce anything much superior to my Velocity Aeroheads with the O/C rear either.

[yummygooey]

I have a set of 20/24h A23's that I've been riding for awhile now. They're kinda flexy (I'm 150 lbs) and the front knocks out of true pretty easily, but dang... they are light and ride great. Paired with both 25c Pasela TG's and 25c Gatorskins at various points.

[rnhood]

I ran the A23's with Conti 4000 in 25 for several months and they are relatively smooth, seemingly well damped and stiff enough for my type riding. But they fell short against the DA 24CL wheels I have. The Dura Ace wheels, with the same tires at the same pressure, are just as comfortable if not more so, and exhibit liveliness that eludes the A23's. I feel more of the road with the DA wheels, a greater agility and seemingly quicker to spin up.

I ended up selling the A23 and purchased a second pair of DA wheels.

But the A23's are good wheels and I don't mean to berate them. I just slightly preferred the DA wheels.

[trangalang]

I'm on the same boat as yummygooey.

I'm about 150lbs and I have a set of 20/24h A23's. I run then with 23mm Gatorskins, and have noticed the lateral flex.

Other than that, I really do enjoy the wheels. Currently running them at 90~ psi and they ride really well.

[slidey]

I've never used A23's but have heard multiple people sing praises of them...however, I was wondering if someone here could review the A23's against the Kinlin xr300's? I haven't used either but I'm gravitating towards the Kinlin's due to them being more suitable to an all-rounder wheelset (training + racing + climbing) than the A23's.

[echelon_john]

completely different rims. the kinlins are 4mm narrower. so you're dealing with a different dynamic for how the tire sits on the rim, as well as a different profile that probably results in a (slightly) vertically stiffer rim. not sure why they'd rate higher as an all-rounder rim. the a23 will give you better performance with wider tires if you want them, as well as being more laterally stiff in my experience.

the other points folks are making about lateral flex on a23s with lower spoke counts rings true to me. the first experience i had with wider rims were with HED ardennes; i had the stallion build (i'm a big dude) but still found them VERY flexible laterally, noticed prominently as brake pad rub when standing/climbing. i would rather build most wheels with more, lighter spokes than fewer spokes of any weight. just not much downside.

i think that, unless you have a really overbuilt rim--e.g. velocity deep v or something like the mavic cxp33--going really low on the spoke count is a mistake. i also think a lighter rim with more, but lighter, spokes will feel more lively. these are my personal leanings, but they're based on riding and building a fair number of wheels, and i try to get folks to look at spoke count, spoke type, etc. as contributing to the whole wheel.

in other words, i get lots of emails asking to "build me a set of wheels with x hubs, x rims, 24/20" but that's not really what most people need, and usually there's a better way that fits the rider's needs and my standards for durability/reliability.

[mdeeds71]

completely different rims. the kinlins are 4mm narrower. so you're dealing with a different dynamic for how the tire sits on the rim, as well as a different profile that probably results in a (slightly) vertically stiffer rim. not sure why they'd rate higher as an all-rounder rim. the a23 will give you better performance with wider tires if you want them, as well as being more laterally stiff in my experience.

the other points folks are making about lateral flex on a23s with lower spoke counts rings true to me. the first experience i had with wider rims were with HED ardennes; i had the stallion build (i'm a big dude) but still found them VERY flexible laterally, noticed prominently as brake pad rub when standing/climbing. i would rather build most wheels with more, lighter spokes than fewer spokes of any weight. just not much downside.

i think that, unless you have a really overbuilt rim--e.g. velocity deep v or something like the mavic cxp33--going really low on the spoke count is a mistake. i also think a lighter rim with more, but lighter, spokes will feel more lively. these are my personal leanings, but they're based on riding and building a fair number of wheels, and i try to get folks to look at spoke count, spoke type, etc. as contributing to the whole wheel.

in other words, i get lots of emails asking to "build me a set of wheels with x hubs, x rims, 24/20" but that's not really what most people need, and usually there's a better way that fits the rider's needs and my standards for durability/reliability.


Oh I can't wait! Sent you a PM and a paypal!

[jeduardo]

Very interesting info which I will def take into account especially since these wheels will not see any CX tires (so,Tom not best idea for me-don't like HED anything-28h Nem-Crono it is).
Regarding tire choice, if that matters at all, I'd like to use something along the lines of the Vittoria Pave Evo CG (700x24)
I will stop here so as not to clog board further w/my hijack,but I do appreciate folk's patience/helpful info

Hey there,
The Major Toms are great rims for CX, but I don't recommend them for road tires. The tire bed profile is quite shallow, meaning that anything under a 30-32 in width is not going to get optimal glue adhesion at the edges of the rim.

People definitely use them with road tires, but if folks want a wider tubular rim for both road and 'cross, I try to steer them to the HED Belgium tubular (when available) because the tire bed profile is more versatile and provides better edge-to-edge glue contact with road tires, esp. 25-27 wide like FMB or Challenge Paris Roubaix.

Cheers,
John

[VTCaraco]

Another happy patron on a set of John-built A23s.
As the previous posts imply, you'll do well to listen to his advice. He's knowledgeable, personable, and of exceptional character.

[oldpotatoe]

I have a set of 20/24h A23's that I've been riding for awhile now. They're kinda flexy (I'm 150 lbs) and the front knocks out of true pretty easily, but dang... they are light and ride great. Paired with both 25c Pasela TG's and 25c Gatorskins at various points.

"20/24, flexy, front out of true"......."light and ride great"??


-----"no such thing as a free lunch"

[steampunk]

Count me in the A23 happy users club.

20/24H 2x, just fine for my +/-124 lbs.

[bluesea]

What is an A23 build that is tougher than Campy Neutron?

[apeescape]

I'll have some first impressions soon. Im a big guy (300lbs and dropping) and just ordered a set to be strung up to some chris king r45s! I will weigh in after the maiden voyage.

[merckx]

What is an A23 build that is tougher than Campy Neutron?

36 spokes w/ 14g db 3X spokes and brass nipples.

[Gummee]

I rode my A23s with 23c Rubino Pros on em the other day. Tires pumped to regular road pressures.

*maybe* slightly less rolling resistance than the Reflex wheels that the tires and tubes came off of, but nothing to write home about. (same hubs between both wheelsets: 571/2s)

Overall, they're wheels. The PITA is that these wheels are the only wide rims in the garage. Have to re-adjust brakes specifically for these wheels. Grrrr I spent most of Sun afternoon in the garage flipping wheels and cassettes around so the 2 cross bikes run the same size rims.

M

[jlwdm]

I rode my A23s with 23c Rubino Pros on em the other day. Tires pumped to regular road pressures.

...
M

Why would you ride them with regular road pressures?

Jeff

[bluesea]

36 spokes w/ 14g db 3X spokes and brass nipples.

Either you forgot to type in a :winky:, or you are telling me the A23 requires heroic measures to surpass the Neutron. Or I need to go to a higher profile rim.

[MadRocketSci]

question for the wheel guys, is lateral stiffness or lack there of something that will affect descending a twisty, fairly steep descent such as Flagstaff in Boulder? Not so concerned about flexiness in a climb, as I typically stay seated and when standing don't rock the bike much side to side, but definitely want to make sure everything stays firm in a hairy descent....

[Gummee]

Why would you ride them with regular road pressures?

Jeff

Cause that's what I pumped em up to. (100f/110r)

Turns out it wasn't a bad thing. Ended up on a few gravel roads. Riding buddy flatted. I didn't.

Could just be luck tho. ie: not hitting that rock 'just wrong.'

M

[merckx]

Either you forgot to type in a :winky:, or you are telling me the A23 requires heroic measures to surpass the Neutron. Or I need to go to a higher profile rim.

The build I offered is significantly stronger than Neutrons. Are you searching for equally strong, slightly stronger, significantly stronger? Same weight, lighter, heavier? As you can see there many variables. Can you fortify you question so that we can better assist you?

[saab2000]

Neutrons are ridiculously strong wheels and any kind of riding which would compromise a Neutron would likely compromise any wheel and probably puts forces on the bike which might compromise other things like forks and handlebars and saddles and seatposts.

Just pointing this out.

I'm sure an A23 build could be stronger but I'm not sure it is necessary.

[bluesea]

Good to hear about the Neutron.

Roads in this town are deteriorating as we speak, which is probably common in many places these days. At 172lb I'm not hard on wheels per se, but do not have expert finesse either. The problem is the last road home is a short 30mph hill, and is a landmine of pot holes. I ride into small potholes once in a while.

Approaching 10,000 mi. total, the rear Neutron needs a touch up, and the front is fine enough to leave for next time.

Maybe I don't need new wheels, and I would be completely fine with that. Was thinking of an elf/R45 or elf/H3, but may be an elf/orc might be more appropriate.

Also I thought the Sapim blade spokes allowed more tension (more stronger) than round spokes?

[mistermo]

Another happy patron on a set of John-built A23s.
As the previous posts imply, you'll do well to listen to his advice. He's knowledgeable, personable, and of exceptional character.

Just found this thread....

I weigh 200lbs. I bought a set of A23s, 32 holes on ebay while I was waiting for John to finish a set for me. I put a set of 28c GP4's on them and immediately noticed the flex in the front, and corresponding brake rub, when climbing.

After receiving the near-identical wheelset from John, also 32 hole A23s, the front wheel flex is gone and the brake pad rubbing is eliminated.

Moral? The wheelbuilder matters.

[559Rando]

Those A23s look killer. I'm thinking about them for my next 650B wheelset. Longleaf had Velocity make a special run, in case anyone's looking for them.

[gavingould]

i've ridden some A23s - front was a 24 spoke, King hub - rear 32 spoke Powertap. i'm 225lbs. no problems with the wheels... just sold the Powertap, so getting another A23 rim to build to a 32 spoke King rear hub.