Another day and another pathetic doper

[djg21]

A master who won his age group (45-49) in the NY Grand Fondo. This is absolutely pathetic.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/david-anthony-tests-positive

On edit, this apparently is the guy who won Battenkill as a 5, then a 4, and then a 3 this past spring.

[Louis]

A master who won his age group (45-49) in the NY Grand Fondeau. This is absolutely pathetic.

I have no "official" data on this, but I bet it's way more common than you think. (but still pathetic)

[ultraman6970]

Wow... why he did raced knowing he was going to be tested positive? well... sad.

[fiamme red]

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/david-anthony-tests-positiveLots of anonymous flaming in the comments. Why so much hostility?

[merlincustom1]

Lots of anonymous flaming in the comments. Why so much hostility?

I assume you're being facetious. There's plenty of negative comments in this place over things more ridiculous than doping!

[Steve in SLO]

As ridiculous as doping in this scenario seems, his public statement is laudible. Pros who have been caught should learn from his example.

[fiamme red]

I assume you're being facetious. There's plenty of negative comments in this place over things more ridiculous than doping!There are worse crimes than doping to win amateur races. The man apologized, and he said that he's finished with racing for good. He doesn't deserve to be set up in an online pillory and have a faceless crowd (i.e., the anonymous commenters on nyvelocity) throw the equivalent of rotten tomatoes (and worse) at him.

[rustychisel]

Why not?

He was prepared to cheat all other competitors in order to have his name up in lights as a WINNER.

Name, shame and pillory seems appropriate. But even if his name is Ed Gein I don't know him.

[FlashUNC]

Doping to win amateur races is sad and pathetic.

[djg21]

Doping to win amateur races is sad and pathetic.

While not a medical professional, this scenario suggests to me a significant psychological issue. It speaks of a a sense of self so lacking that the middle-aged rider would resort to doping to win amateur cyling events so he could fit in to an entirely ****ed up social cycling scene.

The fact that this guy would dope to achieve some dubious amount of success makes me question how he conducted his professional life. I wouldn't do business with the schmuck, and it's easy to feign attrition after one has been caught.

I hope this guy gets help.

[GuyGadois]

There are worse crimes than doping to win amateur races. The man apologized, and he said that he's finished with racing for good. He doesn't deserve to be set up in an online pillory and have a faceless crowd (i.e., the anonymous commenters on nyvelocity) throw the equivalent of rotten tomatoes (and worse) at him.

I respectfully disagree. Other then acts of violence I can't think of any worse (edit: cycling) crime than cheating by taking ban substances to win against a bunch of weekend warriors. And, I actually think people who cheat deserve public humiliation. If he can't handle those tomatoes being tossed then maybe he should move to Spain and enjoy a much warmer reception and some steak on the side.

GG

[Louis]

I respectfully disagree. Other then acts of violence I can't think of any worse crime than cheating by taking ban substances to win against a bunch of weekend warriors.

I assume you're joking, because I can think of quite a few. Bernie Madoff (sp?) comes to mind, as do a number of other types of non-violent crimes.

[GuyGadois]

I assume you're joking, because I can think of quite a few. Bernie Madoff (sp?) comes to mind, as do a number of other types of non-violent crimes.

I don't think Bernie was a rider.

[Louis]

I don't think Bernie was a rider.

OK, so you mean any worse cycling crime. In that case, perhaps.

[Fixed]

Wow... why he did raced knowing he was going to be tested positive? well... sad.

Maybe he wanted to be like the rich and famous :eek:
Cheers :)

[Bob Loblaw]

I totally agree. Racers invest thousands of hours of training, thousands of dollars on equipment, sacrifice sleep and family time, miss hundreds of lunches and dinners with friends, drag the bike along on family vacations, risk injury out on the road 310 days a year in rain, cold, heat, and darkness, all to hopefully get a good result in a race.

You invest all that, and you get pushed out of the top spot of your target race, or off the podium completely, because some 47 year old dipstick took the shortcut of drugs?

I would be homicidal. The guy should be tarred and feathered.

BL

I respectfully disagree. Other then acts of violence I can't think of any worse (edit: cycling) crime than cheating by taking ban substances to win against a bunch of weekend warriors. And, I actually think people who cheat deserve public humiliation. If he can't handle those tomatoes being tossed then maybe he should move to Spain and enjoy a much warmer reception and some steak on the side.

GG

[William]

Well, in his "apology" he clearly states that he is remorseful because he got caught, and second because he was forced off the bike by an accident. I guess otherwise he would still be PED'ing right along.:rolleyes:

Sorry you broke you leg guy. As for the doping, you get what you deserve.

"Two things happened recently that put into prospective just how off the deep end I was. The first was that I tested positive for EPO at the Gran Fondo. A week and a half after that I broke my leg in three places in a racing accident. For the first time in years, I was completely off the bike. These two things gave me the perspective to examine just how insane I was acting."

I think it's a good example of how many racers convince themselves they won't get caught....until they do.


It speaks of a a sense of self so lacking that the middle-aged rider would resort to doping to win amateur cyling events so he could fit in to an entirely ****ed up social cycling scene.

Maybe he thought Lance's team would take him under their wing?:)






William

[Bob Loblaw]

With pros, it's their career, and it's a short one even under ideal circumstances. I could absolutely see taking PED's if there was a chance of making more money to protect my family, and I can also understand that as a motivation for the rider to deny it and force the UCI to prove unequivocally that the rider doped. I might do it myself under those circumstances.

Amateurs don't have that motivation. We race for love of the sport. That makes cheating much less understandable or forgivable.

This guy didn't love the sport, he loved the podium. The only admirable thing would have been to fess up before he got popped.

BL

As ridiculous as doping in this scenario seems, his public statement is laudible. Pros who have been caught should learn from his example.

[oldpotatoe]

There are worse crimes than doping to win amateur races. The man apologized, and he said that he's finished with racing for good. He doesn't deserve to be set up in an online pillory and have a faceless crowd (i.e., the anonymous commenters on nyvelocity) throw the equivalent of rotten tomatoes (and worse) at him.

Why not. If he hadn't been caught he's still be cheating.

To many who 'confess' do so because they are caught, not because they think it's the wrong thing to do.

[67-59]

Why not. If he hadn't been caught he's still be cheating.

To many who 'confess' do so because they are caught, not because they think it's the wrong thing to do.

+1

It isn't really a confession if you've already been caught.

[goonster]

It isn't really a confession if you've already been caught.
I disagree. He could have denied and stonewalled.

He is doing us a favor by confessing and owning up, because it reinforces the testing and gives his competitors clarity on what happened.

[Nooch]

The second one to get popped (yes, there were two: http://www.prlog.org/11931719-two-cyclists-tested-positive-for-epo-at-gran-fondo-new-york-2012.html) was the winner of the 50-54, Italian Gabriele Guarini..

So everybody can take two steps forward..

Being part of that local peloton, there are plenty of guys with the means and drive to do whatever it takes.. it's a little sick, it's a little pathetic, but when you're on the top of your game in your industry, i guess you just want to be at the top of everything.. didn't bankers and stock brokers used to do a ton of cocaine to press through when their bodies wouldn't? these are the same guys making up a chunk of the peloton..

[67-59]

I disagree. He could have denied and stonewalled.

He is doing us a favor by confessing and owning up, because it reinforces the testing and gives his competitors clarity on what happened.

Nah. His B sample would've come up positive anyway - plenty of clarity with that. All "confessing" does is make him feel like he did the right thing. lol

[redir]

Sad thing is he was probably a good racer without the dope and probably had a lot of young riders that looked up to him.

[majorpat]

What a tool. I imagine he was the last kid picked for dodgeball during elementary school...he sure showed those guys!

[fiamme red]

I respectfully disagree. Other then acts of violence I can't think of any worse (edit: cycling) crime than cheating by taking ban substances to win against a bunch of weekend warriors.I think that what Floyd and Tyler did was a lot worse: getting caught cheating, denying, and then taking money from a trusting public to pay for their defense.

[Joachim]

If he would've transfered some money to my office in Tenerife he would still be winning the 45+ age group in Gran Fondo's. Frank forgot his monthly payment.


I keed, I keed!

[fiamme red]

I totally agree. Racers invest thousands of hours of training, thousands of dollars on equipment, sacrifice sleep and family time, miss hundreds of lunches and dinners with friends, drag the bike along on family vacations, risk injury out on the road 310 days a year in rain, cold, heat, and darkness, all to hopefully get a good result in a race.

You invest all that, and you get pushed out of the top spot of your target race, or off the podium completely, because some 47 year old dipstick took the shortcut of drugs?

I would be homicidal. The guy should be tarred and feathered.

BLMaybe you should consider whether losing a spot on the podium to a cheater in a masters race is something to feel homicidal about? Is getting a good result in a meaningless race really so important?

[zap]

Doping to win amateur races is sad and pathetic.

not just races.........

[GuyGadois]

I think that what Floyd and Tyler did was a lot worse: getting caught cheating, denying, and then taking money from a trusting public to pay for their defense.

My point was that a whole new level of patheticness rears its head when you are doping to beat amateurs. Think about it. You are taking performance enhancing drugs to beat amateurs. It doesn't get much more pathetic than that.

GG

[fiamme red]

Reaction from Schmalz:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/journals/2012/schmalz-two-fbfs-and-two-park-races

[Bob Loblaw]

Importance comes from how much of yourself you invest in a thing. 'Just a race' to a non-racer is the culmination of a large, ongoing investment of time and resources to the guys in the race. Being beaten by someone who made the same investment or more is one thing. Losing to someone who gave less and got there by cheating would make me very angry, especially since all thats at stake are pride and honor. I completely understand the bile in the cOmments section.

BL

Maybe you should consider whether losing a spot on the podium to a cheater in a masters race is something to feel homicidal about? Is getting a good result in a meaningless race really so important?

[veloduffer]

Doping to win amateur races is sad and pathetic.

Cheating to win amateur competitions isn't infrequent. I guess many cyclists haven't played golf! (To paraphrase a movie quote: "There's no cheating at Bushwood!"). :eek::bike:

[veloduffer]

Importance comes from how much of yourself you invest in a thing. 'Just a race' to a non-racer is the culmination of a large, ongoing investment of time and resources to the guys in the race. Being beaten by someone who made the same investment or more is one thing. Losing to someone who gave less and got there by cheating would make me very angry, especially since all thats at stake are pride and honor. I completely understand the bile in the cOmments section.

BL

One shouldn't assume DA trained any less than other racers, and maybe he could have won without the EPO (which became an insurance policy). In a perverse way, you could say he gave up more to win - he risked his health.

[Earl Gray]

....Other then acts of violence I can't think of any worse (edit: cycling) crime than cheating by taking ban substances to win against a bunch of weekend warriors......GG

Are you Fn serious? This is one of the most absurd comments I have ever read on the internet.

I hold you in greater contempt than the doper.

[flydhest]

Importance comes from how much of yourself you invest in a thing. 'Just a race' to a non-racer is the culmination of a large, ongoing investment of time and resources to the guys in the race. Being beaten by someone who made the same investment or more is one thing. Losing to someone who gave less and got there by cheating would make me very angry, especially since all thats at stake are pride and honor. I completely understand the bile in the cOmments section.

BL

I gotta say, as someone who races, getting worked up by being beaten by someone who doped in a Grand Fondle is a bit weak. I race because I like racing. Sometimes I am the hammer, sometimes, I am the nail. If I got to the point where I was beating people all the time, I'd upgrade. If I was getting beat all the time, I'd train more or not race anymore. That anyone beat me or not is only relevant for the day because that is what racing is. Not because it matters much outside of that.

[Nooch]

I gotta say, as someone who races, getting worked up by being beaten by someone who doped in a Grand Fondle is a bit weak. I race because I like racing. Sometimes I am the hammer, sometimes, I am the nail. If I got to the point where I was beating people all the time, I'd upgrade. If I was getting beat all the time, I'd train more or not race anymore. That anyone beat me or not is only relevant for the day because that is what racing is. Not because it matters much outside of that.

it's not that he doped to win the fondo (which he didn't -- he won his age group), it's all the other races he's placed well in (like winning his battenkill race as a 3).. he was a weekend warrior, it wasn't just the fondo, that just happens to be where he got caught.

but i agree. train more. race more. get better. drugs are bad, mmkay?

[roydyates]

Cheating to win amateur competitions isn't infrequent. I guess many cyclists haven't played golf! (To paraphrase a movie quote: "There's no cheating at Bushwood!"). :eek::bike:

The first two times I read this, I wondered what drugs are the golfers taking? Does ritalin improve your putting or something like that? Then it occured to me that maybe the methods are more pedestrian, like repositioning your ball for a better lie. Is this what you mean?

In any case, It got me wondering if there are non-drug cheating techniques for amateur cyclists?

[Nooch]

The first two times I read this, I wondered what drugs are the golfers taking? Does ritalin improve your putting or something like that? Then it occured to me that maybe the methods are more pedestrian, like repositioning your ball for a better lie. Is this what you mean?

In any case, It got me wondering if there are non-drug cheating techniques for amateur cyclists?

if you've got the money -- altitude tents..

[Mark McM]

In any case, It got me wondering if there are non-drug cheating techniques for amateur cyclists?

Violating the center line rule?

fraudulently claiming a mishap to get a free lap in a criterium?

Aero helmets not compliant with safety standards used in time trials?

Drafting other riders (or vehicles) in time trials?

Hooking other riders in sprints?

I've seen these and many other non-drug methods of cheating in amateur races.

[Mark McM]

if you've got the money -- altitude tents..

There's nothing in the rules against the use of altitude (hypoxic) tents, so the aren't cheating.

[zap]

folks, enhancements work if you train hard, and harder and lot's.

Just because someone is on epo does not mean they automatically gain an extra 5% at threshold.

Racing is a bit like life. Folks cheat when taking exams, lie about degree's, etc.

The way I look at it, it all has to be paid at some point.

Hell gets more crowded or one comes back as a lower life form.

[Nooch]

There's nothing in the rules against the use of altitude (hypoxic) tents, so the aren't cheating.

well yes, i suppose you're correct. and it's the same as anything, carbon hoops giving an advantage, etc, if you can afford it, and it's not against the rules, sucks for the guy who can't afford it.

[Joachim]

I would love to see testing take place for modafinil (provigil) and methylphenidate (Ritalin) during exams in college. Especially when a lot of students are being graded on a curve.

Dear Mr and Mrs...

Your child has been banned from college for two years incl lost of tuition fees for academic doping.

Regards,

Dean...

[norcalbiker]

There are worse crimes than doping to win amateur races. The man apologized, and he said that he's finished with racing for good. He doesn't deserve to be set up in an online pillory and have a faceless crowd (i.e., the anonymous commenters on nyvelocity) throw the equivalent of rotten tomatoes (and worse) at him.

Why not?

He was prepared to cheat all other competitors in order to have his name up in lights as a WINNER.

Name, shame and pillory seems appropriate. But even if his name is Ed Gein I don't know him.

I totally agree. Why not.
He cheated so his name could be heard. Well, I now know who he is.

[GregL]

I would love to see testing take place for modafinil (provigil) and methylphenidate (Ritalin) during exams in college. Especially when a lot of students are being graded on a curve.

Dear Mr and Mrs...

Your child has been banned from college for two years incl lost of tuition fees for academic doping.

Regards,

Dean...

What's even worse is that some unscrupulous doctors are willing to prescribe these drugs and the losers who use them:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/provigil-secret-success/story?id=16788001

-Greg

[Bob Loblaw]

The guy wasn't cheating to win the gran fondo...he was cheating to win races. He just got popped at the fondo because that's the only time he'd had to go through a doping control.

I get creamed regularly in races. You're right, that's what racing is a lot of the time. When everything comes together, good legs, the right move, the right timing, it makes a top placing against a strong field that much more meaningful.

Cheating under those circumstances is utterly contemptible.

BL

I gotta say, as someone who races, getting worked up by being beaten by someone who doped in a Grand Fondle is a bit weak. I race because I like racing. Sometimes I am the hammer, sometimes, I am the nail. If I got to the point where I was beating people all the time, I'd upgrade. If I was getting beat all the time, I'd train more or not race anymore. That anyone beat me or not is only relevant for the day because that is what racing is. Not because it matters much outside of that.

[benb]

Regarding working hard vs. taking drugs.. that is a false analogy. The whole point of many of the drugs is they allow the athlete to work harder.

E.x. I watched the Ben Johnson documentary this morning that someone posted up.. they gave a great example:

- Clean sprinter: Can lift weights once every 3 days while allowing time to recover

- Doped sprinter: Can lift weights 2X each day and still have time to recover

What do you think is training harder? 3 Weight workouts per week or 10-14?

The famous outdoor article about the amateur cyclist who tried the drugs mentioned the same thing.. the drugs let him train way way harder, not sit on the couch and get faster.

The stupid thing about all of this is *** kind of amateur has that kind of time to train?

[Jaq]

Ah, hell. I dope to win when I drop in on my wife's spinning class. I'll be damned if some old biddy's gonna out-bunny hop me!

On a more serious note, what's interesting is how much "doping" has become mainstream. I wish I could find the video, but there was an ABC thing I watched just this morning about some drug - forgot its name - that's being hailed as a brain-booster. It's supposed to be used only for people with sleep-disorders or who work night-shift jobs, but the off-label use apparently results in increased focus and energy.

Long-term effects are unknown, and there is a very small chance of (bizarrely enough) developing a "deadly rash," whatever that is, but otherwise no adverse side-effects have been reported. Takers do a bit of bait & switch to get their Docs to prescribe it, then swear by the results. Unknown what the placebo effect is, and other doctors interviewed for the segment suggested that good nutrition and rest would be just as effective.

But as someone else pointed out, most dopers aren't mediocre cyclists looking to compensated with a pill; they're hard-core cyclists who've lost sight of the bigger picture and are looking to gain that last fraction of advantage over the competition. So to go back to mainstream doping; imagine a guy or gal who gets lots of rest, eats well, and also takes a brain pill. Is it an unfair advantage?

These are things we're going to be dealing with in the coming decades.

[palincss]

He doesn't deserve to be set up in an online pillory and have a faceless crowd (i.e., the anonymous commenters on nyvelocity) throw the equivalent of rotten tomatoes (and worse) at him.

Explain to me why not.

[Bob Loblaw]

That's steroids and/or HGH. Steroids allows you to train harder, recover faster. In my bodybuilding days, I once watched a guy I knew was on roids do various different kinds of barbell curls, but only focused bicep training, for TWO HOURS. That was the duration of my entire (and formidable, if I say so myself) 64 set back/bicep/calf workout at the time.

EPO = more red cells per blood volume = higher VO2 max = instant speed. I am not suggesting this guy didn't train, but any couch potato will get a boost from EPO.

BL

Regarding working hard vs. taking drugs.. that is a false analogy. The whole point of many of the drugs is they allow the athlete to work harder.

E.x. I watched the Ben Johnson documentary this morning that someone posted up.. they gave a great example:

- Clean sprinter: Can lift weights once every 3 days while allowing time to recover

- Doped sprinter: Can lift weights 2X each day and still have time to recover

What do you think is training harder? 3 Weight workouts per week or 10-14?

The famous outdoor article about the amateur cyclist who tried the drugs mentioned the same thing.. the drugs let him train way way harder, not sit on the couch and get faster.

The stupid thing about all of this is *** kind of amateur has that kind of time to train?

[palincss]

While not a medical professional, this scenario suggests to me a significant psychological issue.


Or, maybe it suggests that many racing fans believe doping is an acceptable part of the sport, and that all pros do it and it's ok, we should stop carrying on about it and accept the "level playing field" -- just quoting things that have been said here in various Lance and Doping threads -- and if it's ok for the Big Boys, why not him.

[flydhest]

Cheating under those circumstances is utterly contemptible.

BL

I dunno. I just think it's kind of sad and pathetic. Not worth too much energy.

[bcm119]

I seem to be in the minority here, but this kind of thing just doesn't really get me too worked up. I no longer race, and even when I did I was nothing special, so maybe that's part of it. But this is the way I look at it:

Some guys (actually many) are willing to go to further extents than I to win. Some guys spend more of their paycheck on gear. Some guys train to the detriment of their social lives, or even their family. Some guys are single, early retired, masters-is-my-life supermen. And I guess some guys dope. I like to make the most of my fitness with what I have, and what I'm willing to sacrifice, and when you look at it that way it's not an even field even if everyone was clean. Doping is just another factor, and yes its the most dickish factor, but it doesn't get me that fired up. I wouldn't be hurling insults at this guy on the internet, there are worse things going on in this world to spend your emotional energy there.

[zap]

snip


EPO = more red cells per blood volume = higher VO2 max = instant speed. I am not suggesting this guy didn't train, but any couch potato will get a boost from EPO.

BL

Drift.

Are you sure about that?

I'm aware that gains from epo use is pretty rapid, measurable in weeks, but did not realize it was immediate.

[false_Aest]

My point was that a whole new level of patheticness rears its head when you are doping to beat amateurs. Think about it. You are taking performance enhancing drugs to beat amateurs. It doesn't get much more pathetic than that.

Ego. Mortality. Whatever.

Drop wife; get younger model.
Sedan becomes sports car.
Buy a bike buy some epo.
Quit job; start brewing beer.

People seem to do strange things between the ages of 40-55.

Yeah dude might still be doping if he didn't get caught. Sometimes you need a slap in the face.

[Earl Gray]

I seem to be in the minority here, but this kind of thing just doesn't really get me too worked up. I no longer race, and even when I did I was nothing special, so maybe that's part of it. But this is the way I look at it:

Some guys (actually many) are willing to go to further extents than I to win. Some guys spend more of their paycheck on gear. Some guys train to the detriment of their social lives, or even their family. Some guys are single, early retired, masters-is-my-life supermen. And I guess some guys dope. I like to make the most of my fitness with what I have, and what I'm willing to sacrifice, and when you look at it that way it's not an even field even if everyone was clean. Doping is just another factor, and yes its the most dickish factor, but it doesn't get me that fired up. I wouldn't be hurling insults at this guy on the internet, there are worse things going on in this world to spend your emotional energy there.

+1

To add to your list, some people are just more naturally talented and physically gifted. The fair "playing field" has, does and always will end at the edge of the field. There is no fairness beyond it.

P.s. Just like the gear don't matter, nor does the dope. If a doper kicked your ass it is very likely he would have kicked your ass clean.

People whining about doper just like to like to believe that they could be all that! It's is the excuse they use to accept failure.

[norcalbiker]

p.s. Just like the gear don't matter, nor does the dope. If a doper kicked your ass it is very likely he would have kicked your ass clean.

Are you SERIOUS!!!!!

[Earl Gray]

Are you SERIOUS!!!!!

Let me guess, if you were on the program long enough you could have won the Tour!

Well maybe not the Tour, but certainly would have dominated locally.

Maybe not dominated, but man I would have lots of podiums.

Dream on!

[norcalbiker]

Let me guess, if you were on the program long enough you could have won the Tour!

Well maybe not the Tour, but certainly would have dominated locally.

Maybe not dominated, but man I would have lots of podiums.

Dream on!

So if you can kick their ass while you're clean, then why doped?

Btw, I don't race, I have never raced and I have no plan on racing bicycle.

I do ride my bike for recreation or for fun with with my wife and friends.

So no need for us to dope since there is no trophy waiting at the finish line.

[GuyGadois]

P.s. Just like the gear don't matter, nor does the dope. If a doper kicked your ass it is very likely he would have kicked your ass clean.


This just doesn't make sense one bit. Are you saying that people who dope are already good enough to kick other people's ass? Or, are you trying to say that dope really doesn't have much effect on a riders ability or give any performance enhancements. Or, you just making a joke?

GG

[djg21]

I disagree. He could have denied and stonewalled.

He is doing us a favor by confessing and owning up, because it reinforces the testing and gives his competitors clarity on what happened.

We are not talking about Lance Armstrong in this thread. We are discussing a guy who presumably has limited resources with which to pay expensive lawyers to prosecute low-probability (IMO silly) lawsuits so that he may stonewall and persist in his denials.

This clown did not do anyone a favor. He is contributing to the culture of drug use that permeates cycling -- and not just in the pro peloton. Who would not have reservations about encouraging a child or adolescent to become involved with a sport so accepting of illicit drug use despite the known risks? What does this do for grass roots cycling? Why would any commercial enterprise wish to sponsor the local cycling club?

[Earl Gray]

This just doesn't make sense one bit. Are you saying that people who dope are already good enough to kick other people's ass? Or, are you trying to say that dope really doesn't have much effect on a riders ability or give any performance enhancements. Or, you just making a joke?

GG

I'm not saying that doping does nothing, it is just not the holy grail that some folks make it out to be.


In very general terms and IMHO, dopers are willing to do more than most to win.

I'm not saying it's admirable in anyway, but dopers are willing to do more than the average Joe to win. They are willing to work harder, train harder, make more personal scarifies and are willing to put more at risk.

They would find a way to beat people that are not willing to go as far.

Endurance sports, which cycling is at almost all levels, is about willingness and desire.

[Tony T]

As ridiculous as doping in this scenario seems, his public statement is laudible. Pros who have been caught should learn from his example.

No it is not. If he were not caught, and confessed it would be laudable. To confess after being proved guilty is self-serving.

[firerescuefin]

They are willing to work harder, train harder, make more personal scarifies and are willing to put more at risk.

They are willing to cheat and take shortcuts that others aren't....much like the kid in college that would cheat on the exams while you stayed up all night prepping....The bull**** that you wrote above is the **** they tell themselves to justify what they do.

[ultraman6970]

Some drugs do not work for everybody, so if the guy was winning just accountants as the other guy logged, yes I agree the doper was just nuts, even some dope just to follow the tides eventhought the stuff doesnt do almost nothing to them.. The other thing is that maybe the doper was so into it that he lost trace of reality but at the same time I have noticed at least here in the US that guys are too competitive.

Don't know if its a cultural thing or not, but even in the road you can't hang up with race riders groups or even talk to them. And believe me, "I been there and done that," so surprise me how proud some guys are clearly from look at them riding you know that aren't that good but they take it too seriously, my assessment and opinion are based in the fact that my background is different because I did not grow as a rider here. From were i'm even between clubs, just like the logger, everybody is a big family that embrace anybody who loves the sport, nobody was marginated from a training ride if an amateur "nobody" showed up, in a matter of fact we helped them to develop teaching them stuff. Maybe the "cultural thing got the dopper too deep to the point that was the only thing that important to him.

Who knows, people does weird stuff. In my country we have no pro but technically i was paid for racing in a big team and stuff, but we never left as a team the old spirit we had when we started racing when kids, we had fights with other teams but after the years everybody is still a big family.

It is interesting what happened here, the guy is old... well a lot of old dopers moving around, he is not the 1st one for sure.

[goonster]

This clown did not do anyone a favor.
Nobody is condoning his doping in any way, and you don't need lawyers to deny and whine about persecution.

Still a doper, but he who confesses (Millar et al) deserves a smidgen of credit, and is better for a clean sport than a denier.

[goonster]

Endurance sports, which cycling is at almost all levels, is about willingness and desire.
Well, that is the greeting card version.

[Fixed]

Why not hire a pro to race for you
A ringer ,a guy could win all his cat 5 races that way and not have to sweat
Cheers :)

[laupsi]

I'm not saying that doping does nothing, it is just not the holy grail that some folks make it out to be.


In very general terms and IMHO, dopers are willing to do more than most to win.

I'm not saying it's admirable in anyway, but dopers are willing to do more than the average Joe to win. They are willing to work harder, train harder, make more personal scarifies and are willing to put more at risk.

They would find a way to beat people that are not willing to go as far.

Endurance sports, which cycling is at almost all levels, is about willingness and desire.

sorry man but you're over do for a broaden your horizons and open up your mind lesson/speach: read Paul Kimmage's book "Rough Ride". this is a good start to understanding the mind of dopers and non-dopers in the sport of professional racing.

[djg21]

he who confesses (Millar et al) deserves a smidgen of credit, and is better for a clean sport than a denier.

If this guy had a crisis of conscience and came clean of his own volition, that would be one thing. But I don't understand how any credit is due to one who "confesses" (or admits) to doping only after testing positive and being caught dead to rights. What option did he have? His PED use would have become public knowledge no matter what he said, and his credibility (even outside of bicycle racing) would be completely destroyed if he persisted in denying his drug use.

While I can be somewhat empathetic, and agree that it is really sad that this guy's insecurities were so significant that he felt compelled to use EPO so he could enjoy a measure of success as a middle-aged recreational bicycle racer and gain acceptance into the local bicycle racing culture, he certainly does not deserve credit for his honesty and good moral character.

[fiamme red]

Explain to me why not.What bothers me is the commenters at nyvelocity who are attacking him are anonymous, and they aren't accountable for anything they say. If they posted under their real names, that would be all right.

[Jaq]

If this guy had a crisis of conscience and came clean of his own volition, that would be one thing. But I don't understand how any credit is due to one who "confesses" (or admits) to doping only after testing positive and being caught dead to rights. What option did he have? His PED use would have become public knowledge no matter what he said, and his credibility (even outside of bicycle racing) would be completely destroyed if he persisted in denying his drug use.

While I can be somewhat empathetic, and agree that it is really sad that this guy's insecurities were so significant that he felt compelled to use EPO so he could enjoy a measure of success as a middle-aged recreational bicycle racer and gain acceptance into the local bicycle racing culture, he certainly does not deserve credit for his honesty and good moral character.

To what base Ends, and by what abject Ways,
Are Mortals urg'd thro' Sacred Lust of praise!
Ah ne'er so dire a Thirst of Glory boast,
Nor in the Critick let the Man be lost!
Good-Nature and Good-Sense must ever join;
To err is Humane; to Forgive, Divine.

[norcalbiker]

No it is not. If he were not caught, and confessed it would be laudable. To confess after being proved guilty is self-serving.

Exactly!!!

He only confessed because he got caught.

[norcalbiker]

In very general terms and IMHO, dopers are willing to do more than most to win.

I think it's the other way around. They are not willing to go above and beyond what they're capable so they doped instead and take the easy route.



They would find a way to beat people that are not willing to go as far.
.

Yeah by doping.

[BobC]

The biggest difference between buying the latest & greatest gear, training all those extra miles, etc versus using EPO (or other PED) is that the latter is ILLEGAL -- banned by a whole host of governing sports bodies (not just cycling).

My litmus test is that whether what you do stands up to scrutiny in the light of day:
- Buying super expensive gear ($2K wheels, etc): Yepper, though some might roll their eyes.
- Training billions of extra miles: Yepper, though some might think you are crazy & you won't have a life outside riding.
- Doping: Nope.

If you are hiding it & don't want folks to know, then it is probably pretty safe to say you are doing something wrong.

[russ46]

[What bothers me is the commenters at nyvelocity who are attacking him are anonymous, and they aren't accountable for anything they say. If they posted under their real names, that would be all right.
]
I followed NY Velocity for a couple of years. The site is deliberately set up to encourage anonymous critics. Its kind of a no holds barred/wild west anything goes (or said) kind of thing.

[bcm119]

I think it's the other way around. They are not willing to go above and beyond what they're capable so they doped instead and take the easy route.


I think that is a common misconception. Doping won't turn mediocre fitness into race-winning fitness; you have to put in all the work to gain competitive fitness before doping will give you the edge to win. I agree with the earlier comment that dopers go to every extreme to win, otherwise they wouldn't be doping. You can't show up with half assed fitness and expect PEDs to win your race for you.

[Fixed]

My question is you go to a doc he gives you testosterone to make you feel younger, you have scrip is it still illegal if you race ?
Cheers :)
I guessing yes but it seems odd to me :)

[norcalbiker]

I think that is a common misconception. Doping won't turn mediocre fitness into race-winning fitness; you have to put in all the work to gain competitive fitness before doping will give you the edge to win. I agree with the earlier comment that dopers go to every extreme to win, otherwise they wouldn't be doping. You can't show up with half assed fitness and expect PEDs to win your race for you.

Yeah maybe you're right. But at the end, like the title said.

It's PATHETIC!!! Especially on an amatuer level.

[torquer]

My question is you go to a doc he gives you testosterone to make you feel younger, you have scrip is it still illegal if you race ?
Cheers :)
I guessing yes but it seems odd to me :)
TUE is your friend. But I suspect you would need the testosterone for a more serious condition than the need to feel younger.

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Science-Medicine/TUE/

[Joachim]

TUE is your friend. But I suspect you would need the testosterone for a more serious condition than the need to feel younger.

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Science-Medicine/TUE/

Correct. Not as easy as that.

[laupsi]

I think that is a common misconception. Doping won't turn mediocre fitness into race-winning fitness; you have to put in all the work to gain competitive fitness before doping will give you the edge to win. I agree with the earlier comment that dopers go to every extreme to win, otherwise they wouldn't be doping. You can't show up with half assed fitness and expect PEDs to win your race for you.

again, read "Rough Ride", by Paul Kimmage

[SteveFrench]

Correct. Not as easy as that.

Isn't hormone replacement therapy pretty common?

[Mark McM]

Boulder Cyclist receives 2 year ban from UCI (http://303cycling.com/boulder-commuter-receives-2-year-ban)

"Yesterday UCI announced they are banning a 28 year female rider Sarah Tream-Thompson. Even though Sarah has never had any doping test performed on her she has admitted to usage of EPO, testosterone, and excessive caffeine. Her ban will prevent her from participating in any sanctioned cycling event for the next 2 years, but there is one small catch here, Sarah doesn't race.

"Sarah is what she calls, 'a competitive bike commuter'. 'I own like 3 popular commuter routes in Boulder'. A quick check in Strava proves it, Sarah is the leader of the Boulder - Lafayette (via Baseline), South Boulder HC into Louisville, and Boulder - Gunbarrel. When asked about why she likes competitive commuting she says, 'it's way better than racing, you don't have anyone yelling at you to hold your line, there's a race 5 days a week, 1 category, no timing chips, registration, license and all that BS that comes with racing.'"

[Fixed]

Competive commuter ?
People can screw up anything IMHO
Cheers :)

[SteveFrench]

Boulder Cyclist receives 2 year ban from UCI (http://303cycling.com/boulder-commuter-receives-2-year-ban)

" Even though Sarah has never had any doping test performed on her she has admitted to usage of EPO, testosterone, and excessive caffeine. '"



I bet she's lovely.

[Joachim]

Isn't hormone replacement therapy pretty common?

Not super common, but to get a TUE for testosterone is not that easy. Tests, tests, more tests, follow up tests. Just HRT is not a justification for a TUE. If you download the TUE forms from USADA you can see what is involved.

[Nooch]

Boulder Cyclist receives 2 year ban from UCI (http://303cycling.com/boulder-commuter-receives-2-year-ban)

"Yesterday UCI announced they are banning a 28 year female rider Sarah Tream-Thompson. Even though Sarah has never had any doping test performed on her she has admitted to usage of EPO, testosterone, and excessive caffeine. Her ban will prevent her from participating in any sanctioned cycling event for the next 2 years, but there is one small catch here, Sarah doesn't race.

"Sarah is what she calls, 'a competitive bike commuter'. 'I own like 3 popular commuter routes in Boulder'. A quick check in Strava proves it, Sarah is the leader of the Boulder - Lafayette (via Baseline), South Boulder HC into Louisville, and Boulder - Gunbarrel. When asked about why she likes competitive commuting she says, 'it's way better than racing, you don't have anyone yelling at you to hold your line, there's a race 5 days a week, 1 category, no timing chips, registration, license and all that BS that comes with racing.'"

You did notice this is a joke, right? Filed under Friday Fun...

[SteveFrench]

Not super common, but to get a TUE for testosterone is not that easy. Tests, tests, more tests, follow up tests. Just HRT is not a justification for a TUE. If you download the TUE forms from USADA you can see what is involved.

Oh I gotcha. Didn't realize what a TUE is.

[Earl Gray]

You did notice this is a joke, right? Filed under Friday Fun...

Let's hope it's for real!

Wonder if this would work for me?

"Sarah was arrested in Longmont because she was soliciting sex outside of Amgen where EPO is made. Sarah was exchanging sex for EPO."

[Fixed]

You did notice this is a joke, right? Filed under Friday Fun...

Thanks my faith is revived :)
Cheersn

[palincss]

What bothers me is the commenters at nyvelocity who are attacking him are anonymous, and they aren't accountable for anything they say. If they posted under their real names, that would be all right.

One could, I suppose, wonder how it was your momma named you after a rim... :)

[fiamme red]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/sports/cycling/doping-in-cycling-reaches-into-amateur-ranks.html

Anthony, the founder of a Manhattan-based digital publishing company, admitted to doping in a letter posted on the local cycling Web site NYvelocity.com. In an interview, Anthony declined to give details about his EPO use, other than to say that drugs “sucked the joy out of racing.”

Anthony said he used drugs to maintain his social standing within the local racing scene and on his BH-Comedy Central amateur team.

“It wasn’t for money, and it wasn’t for winning,” said Anthony, a three-time winner of the Tour of the Battenkill race in upstate New York. “It was about being relevant in the group, which was pretty addicting.”

Anthony, who began racing in 2009, said he had recently upgraded to the amateur category 2 — one step below the highest amateur category. A former cigarette smoker, he said bicycle racing quickly took over his life. He trained 16 to 20 hours a week and spent several thousand dollars each month on race entry fees and transportation to events. He also slept in a $4,000 hypoxic altitude tent, which pro cyclists commonly use to legally increase the production of red blood cells.

“The sport is all-consuming; it’s not like weekend softball,” he said. “I was only involved in it for four years, and it took over most of my energy.”

[ctcyclistbob]

In search of relevance, a Cat. 3 turns to EPO and HGH:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/news/in-search-of-relevance-a-cat-3-turns-to-epo-and-hgh_232611