about those clicky rear hubs - tech question

[eddief]

out on the road today with a fine woman rider next to me. She asked why some back wheels go click and some don't. And I gotta say, I know there are palls back there clicking against some sort of gear thing, but, for instance, how does Shimano make theirs completely quiet and most other make the clicking noise from a small to a much greater extent? Seems like a thing a nut job cyclist should know...for the babes.

[Kontact]

Size, shape, engagment angle and number of pawls have a lot to do with it. Also the way the hub is built has a lot to do with the way the sound propagates. But I don't think there's a single easy answer.

Loud hubs seem unnecessary.

[soulspinner]

My best riding bud says I should quiet my 240 dt hubs with grease. But while he is bitching I usually take off , forcing him to chase ;)

[Steve in SLO]

My best riding bud says I should quiet my 240 dt hubs with grease. But while he is bitching I usually take off , forcing him to chase ;)
If you really want to drive him crazy, start pedalling backwards while going downhill

[beercan]

My best riding bud says I should quiet my 240 dt hubs with grease. But while he is bitching I usually take off , forcing him to chase ;)

ive used phil oil to quiet down the noise, really easy to do since the dt's are pretty easy to take apart,

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I just picked up some wheels built with 7900 hubs, and they seem as loud as my DT 240s. What's up with that? Did Shimano back away from the silent hub, or is the sound a function of how they were lubed up by the previous owner?

[Grant McLean]

Noisy hubs = their way of asking for some lube.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease, don't ignore the request.

-g

[jischr]

It all started in the mid 1950’s when the typical owner of a Harley Davidson couldn’t afford to buy replacement mufflers. Some actuarial did a study and found that loud motor bikes were safer than quiet bikes. The French, who considered putting a motor on anything with two wheels to be equivalent to drinking water with a meal, ignored the trend. The Italians however saw a chance to get their both their bicycles and the Ducati line onto American soil. A few decades later Shimano-san sought out Honda-san to get his input to the American psyche and was told that noisy wheels were a sign of poor quality, he should design a quiet wheel for the American market. A decade later the French finally gave into marketing pressure and came out with the first Mavic wheel with miniature baseball cards in the hub. They were an instant hit but proved too much since they made noise whenever the wheel turned. So they bowed to the Italians and only made noise when coasting. So there you go, American insurance and marketing pressures, and Japanese pursuit of higher quality are the reasons why some wheels are noisier than others. :rolleyes:

[Puget Pounder]

.. but aren't CK and Campy hubs just naturally a bajillion times louder than Shimano? DIdn't realize that they are in need o grease. Angry bees for the win.

[Jaq]

Use oil, not grease. This according to Old Potatoe and others who know their stuff.

[firerescuefin]

.. but aren't CK and Campy hubs just naturally a bajillion times louder than Shimano? DIdn't realize that they are in need o grease. Angry bees for the win.

Viscosity matters....grease in the springs and pawls during winter time can = a trip to the dentist. Light oil with something like Phils or Mobil 1 does the trick.

A similar post a few months ago:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=106449

[eddief]

this one is about what makes one quiet and not the other. i am thinking it is not all about lube in the hub. is it?

[DRietz]

Depends on the hub. To be honest the only quiet hubs I know of are Shimanos, and even those have a sound, it's just muffled.

Things that can make a difference in sound: pawl or ratchet or ring drive, pawl count, ratchet tooth count, oil vs grease, grease viscosity, time since service, conditions you ride in, etc.

[soulspinner]

If you really want to drive him crazy, start pedalling backwards while going downhill

:p

[AgilisMerlin]

as stated above, sometimes the pawls make noise on engagement, but

an issue of grease, maybe

all good things also wear out with use. sharp edges wear smooth.

freehub bodies spin freely/engage - opposites. so the body needs to be worked on or replaced.

the clicking could be the ferrules on the rim.
years ago a rim only made noise when ridden with pressure/tire
air out/truing stand no noise
ferrules/mavic reflex

[biker72]

The Record hubs on my 2 bikes make a little noise but not much.
The Ultegra hub on my commuter bike is almost totally silent.

[oldpotatoe]

.. but aren't CK and Campy hubs just naturally a bajillion times louder than Shimano? DIdn't realize that they are in need o grease. Angry bees for the win.

Ya 'grease' CK and they won't work. Ya grease Campagnolo and ask for a pawl(or 2) to stick down.

DA hubs are 3 pawls, 6700 and below still 2 pawl. Campagnolo is 3 pawl. Mavic road are 2 pawl. Newest Mavic MTB are 4 pawl. American Classic are really One pawl. A wire end that engages a 6 pawl ring. Break that wire and nowork.

ALSO don't grease the discs in DT and they may slip as well.

I use Mobil One. Cheap, doesn't get thick when cold.

[benitosan1972]

IMO, The louder the hub the better... It warns those ahead of me that I'm about to catch/pass you (while I'm coasting, lol) ;)

[KidWok]

Loud would be a set of CK hubs with Mavic Exalith treated rims (not that they offer an aftermarket...just saying). Get your angry bees and screaming banshees all put into one package.

Tai

[Puget Pounder]

Ya 'grease' CK and they won't work. Ya grease Campagnolo and ask for a pawl(or 2) to stick down.

DA hubs are 3 pawls, 6700 and below still 2 pawl. Campagnolo is 3 pawl. Mavic road are 2 pawl. Newest Mavic MTB are 4 pawl. American Classic are really One pawl. A wire end that engages a 6 pawl ring. Break that wire and nowork.

ALSO don't grease the discs in DT and they may slip as well.

I use Mobil One. Cheap, doesn't get thick when cold.

Sorry, I didn't mean to assume to know anything about this subject. I clearly did not know that hub loudness was a product of lack of lubircation, I just thought that some hubs were just naturally louder than others.

[eddief]

of the internals of a typically loud hub and those known to be quieter? I am not convinced most of this is about lube, but maybe more about what's is rubbing against what on the metal to metal interfaces. Regardless of lube, my C4 hubs are always more clickier than my DA or Ultegra.

[doode]

Not necessarily rubbing. More like tap dancing.



of the internals of a typically loud hub and those known to be quieter? I am not convinced most of this is about lube, but maybe more about what's is rubbing against what on the metal to metal interfaces. Regardless of lube, my C4 hubs are always more clickier than my DA or Ultegra.

[67-59]

Still not sure when we're supposed to oil CK or Campy hubs. My Campy Record hubs made more noise from day 1 than Shimano hubs ever did. Does that mean they needed a shot of oil right out of the box?

[oldpotatoe]

Still not sure when we're supposed to oil CK or Campy hubs. My Campy Record hubs made more noise from day 1 than Shimano hubs ever did. Does that mean they needed a shot of oil right out of the box?

CK, you really need to use the stuff they provide..or diluted grease with tri flow but even that's sometimes too thick.

For Campagnolo, I grease the bearings, oil the pawls with Mobil One...shimano hubs are 2 pawl(except DA hubs and wheels), Campag are 3 pawl.

But ya know, all this talk about 'noisy hubs', means the pawl system, which is pretty essential when you are pedaling, is working. Don't get all the concern about it.

[FlashUNC]

CK, you really need to use the stuff they provide..or diluted grease with tri flow but even that's sometimes too thick.

For Campagnolo, I grease the bearings, oil the pawls with Mobil One...shimano hubs are 2 pawl(except DA hubs and wheels), Campag are 3 pawl.

But ya know, all this talk about 'noisy hubs', means the pawl system, which is pretty essential when you are pedaling, is working. Don't get all the concern about it.

+1. Silent freewheels on hubs scare me a bit. I want to hear that its working back there, rather than preparing to buck me off in some random accident.

[Mark McM]

of the internals of a typically loud hub and those known to be quieter? I am not convinced most of this is about lube, but maybe more about what's is rubbing against what on the metal to metal interfaces. Regardless of lube, my C4 hubs are always more clickier than my DA or Ultegra.

I suspect that the noisiness of the freehub has a lot to do with the pawl location, and the path of the noise/vibration from the pawls to the outside world.

The pawls in a Shimano freehub are completely internal to the freehub body, and totally enclosed by the freehub bearings. Further, the Shimano pawls 'click' against the ratchet teeth inside of the freehub body, which is further shrouded by the cassette. In contrast, the pawls in a Campagnolo freehub are located between the hubshell and the freehub body, and isolated from the outside world only by an o-ring seal. In addition, Campagnolo pawls 'click' against ratchet teeth directly inside the right flange, so there is less metal between the Campagnolo pawls and the outside world.

I haven't seen the inside of a C4 hub, but I suspect the location and design of the pawl system is more like Campagnolo's than like Shimano's

[Mark McM]

+1. Silent freewheels on hubs scare me a bit. I want to hear that its working back there, rather than preparing to buck me off in some random accident.

Maybe that's why the Shimano Roller-cam hubs, with their completely silent freehub mechanism, wasn't more popular.

Or then again, maybe it was just because they were heavier, more expensive, and less reliable than ratchet style freehubs.

[phlash23]

Best oil I found so far is the Dumonde Tech freehub oil (http://www.dumondetech.com/dumonde/products/bicycle-2/) (scroll down about 2/3).

And if you're a fan of loud pawls, this is turning it up to 11 for sure.
http://vimeo.com/43279953

[DHallerman]

Noisy hubs = their way of asking for some lube.

Not necessarily so.

Have you ridden with Chris King hubs? Especially the standard road, since the R45 are a bit quieter.

Dave, who used to dislike the sound of a Chris King rear hub but now finds it somewhat soothing

[benb]

The noisy freehub is just reminding you that you need to HTFU and get back to pedaling.