I telephoned Serotta this morning

[whforrest]

Made a quick call this morning to order some replacement decals like I have done for the last 20 years.......................4 serottas later..................I was told that the factory now has to do this...........................first gut feeling.....................so long serotta.................the girl seemed nice enough..............after selling the greatness of this company to so many cyclist over the years I think I may be done with these guys..........I always felt like I was a part of this company.................who's running the ship?

[AngryScientist]

completely ridiculous. i think Serotta's concern is that people would put their decals on non-serotta frames, making counterfeits.

the idea of having to hand my bike over to Serotta to replace the decals is crazy though.

[MattTuck]

Made a quick call this morning to order some replacement decals like I have done for the last 20 years.......................4 serottas later..................I was told that the factory now has to do this...........................first gut feeling.....................so long serotta.................the girl seemed nice enough..............after selling the greatness of this company to so many cyclist over the years I think I may be done with these guys..........I always felt like I was a part of this company.................who's running the ship?

Sucks, but I'd do the same if I were in their shoes. Protecting your brand has to be a high priority. A few of these decals get out and go onto repainted lemonds, or substandard bikes from China sold as authentic, and it can really cheapen your brand.

Just like purses today, you always are wondering, "is that a real prada? or a counterfeit?" Would be best for a company like serotta to confirm in house that it is a serotta before slapping new decals on it.

[nighthawk]

I'm confused by the OP.. Did Serotta say, only the factory can send out decals.. or the factory has to apply the decals?

And I wodner if a reputable frame builder/painter would get the same response.

[Joachim]

Its been 3 months and two emails directly to the person responsible for refinishing and painting. No response. Given that their refinish work is not cheap, I would think they would like the cash. I contacted other painters.

[bluesea]

Sucks, but I'd do the same if I were in their shoes. Protecting your brand has to be a high priority. A few of these decals get out and go onto repainted lemonds, or substandard bikes from China sold as authentic, and it can really cheapen your brand.

Just like purses today, you always are wondering, "is that a real prada? or a counterfeit?" Would be best for a company like serotta to confirm in house that it is a serotta before slapping new decals on it.



I agree. They need to make dam sure loyal multi-serotta owners don't go chinese frame on them.

[Aaron O]

I would think this is easily addressed - keep internal records of how many decals you're sending and ask for a serial # and a photo. If someone is sending fakes, I'm not sure Serotta is the brand to counterfeit.

[SteveFrench]

Had a similar experience with Tommasini. I get it, but it is annoying.

[zandrrr]

I guess that means no getting black decals for my ti Fierte to replace the white. Oh well. Maybe I'll just strip it entirely, for that stealth look. :cool:

[MattTuck]

I would think this is easily addressed - keep internal records of how many decals you're sending and ask for a serial # and a photo. If someone is sending fakes, I'm not sure Serotta is the brand to counterfeit.

ZING!

I understand the point about loyal customers, and wanting to maintain good relationships especially with those customers. I think it is just a decision at the top to protect the integrity of the brand. It maybe be harsh for some, but is an attempt to protect themselves, and perhaps even bring in some revenue.

If Joe Bell called them, I bet he'd be asked for a serial number, and then sent decals.

[bluesea]

ZING!

I think it is just a decision at the top to protect the integrity of the brand. It maybe be harsh for some, but is an attempt to protect themselves, and perhaps even bring in some revenue.




So that's what it is, Serotta is now a company that has a "top", from where decisions are handed down no doubt.

[victoryfactory]

When the decal restriction was set up I think they wanted you to contact your dealer/painter who would order them for you.

Maybe that still works?

(Presuming they trust their dealers)

VF

[miguel]

hey guys, i dealt with this too.

Velocals is good

Also, pro painters like joe bell, keith anderson, and probably sprctrum could do it just as well.

[Bruce K]

Since the counterfeiting actually did happen with bikes on ebay being touted as Serottas when they were not (or in one case someone saying they put Serotta decals on because they thought they looked cool) the restricted availability for decals is not new.

Serotta stopped selling decals directly to consumers several years ago.

Legitimate refinishers/painters/restorers and dealers used to be able to get them. I know there are virtually no dealers left so that avenue is basically gone.

If they are now saying factory or nothing that IS a new policy, and not a very good one given they have stated recently that refinishing older frames was not a priority.

BK

[zandrrr]

When I bought my Fierte a couple months ago (off eBay), I emailed them. I gave them the serial number and asked if they could provide any information about it, a geometry chart, a model year, anything at all really. I didn't know anything about Serottas.

Their reply was basically, "we can't tell you anything about it because you're not the original owner and that's between us and him/her. Hope you enjoy it." :confused:

(I've since found the geometry chart and information about the bike from the archived website, though I'm still not sure of the model year, not that it matters much.)

[BCS]

I guess that means no getting black decals for my ti Fierte to replace the white. Oh well. Maybe I'll just strip it entirely, for that stealth look. :cool:

You could always get some MOOTS stickers. They sell 'em on their website and don't seem concerned about Chi-tanium counterfeits

[zandrrr]

You could always get some MOOTS stickers. They sell 'em on their website and don't seem concerned about Chi-tanium counterfeits

I think this would look nice on my Fierte:
http://www.psyclestore.com/products.php?product=Misfit-Psycles-Brass-Headbadge

:banana:

[Germany_chris]

This is why I got that PS file of Serotta decals, if they don't want me to put legit stickers on counterfeit bikes I'll put counterfeit stickers on a legitimate bike.

[Aaron O]

This is not any kind of a ding at Serotta, but they are a smaller company and have less name recognition/resale value than Colnago. It just is. I'd rather have a Serotta myself. To me, any benefit they gain by controlling their decals is outweighed by the annoyance to Serotta owners. I just don't believe that it's that big of a risk so long as they ask for serial number and a photo.

[justinrchan]

Does any bike company send out decals anymore? I tried to get some from Bontrager for my wheels and they flat out said no with no reason.

[jpw]

When I received my custom ti Serotta there was clearly something lumpy sandwiched between the decal and the down tube. I ask for a replacement decal to be sent. I received a complete set without charge or postage cost. That was 2009.

I've seen fake Serotta decal sets being sold on ebay. Serotta should complain to ebay. Infringement of intellectual property rights.

[Earl Gray]

Almost any local commercial graphic art print shop can and will make you whatever you want. If you come in wanting one or two set of stickers most won't give it a second thought.

I have some "special" stickers to slap on a old lugged frame when I get it powder coated. I provided a picture of the stickers I wanted to a local guy and he printed them out no questions asked.

If you don't won't to hassle with that, go here

http://www.wanit.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d8.html

or
http://www.fastdecals.com/shop/corporate-logo-decals/serotta-01-decal-sticker.html

Change the currency to dollars and it shows up for less than $24

This fear of "counterfeit" is way over the top.

[whforrest]

1) In order to get new decals Serotta must put them on themselves. Even though I was able to purchase them a year ago via Serotta.

2) Regarding marketing and promotions all you need to do is look at Baum, Moots and Seven. They have this dialed in like a science. Moots is not worried about selling decals. Baum has complete artistic control of all paint jobs because they don't want ugly looking bikes. (sadly I admit that many of the serotta custom paints job are out of date)

3) It's more about the feeling level though. Many of us serotta forumites felt like we were in the "club." Whatever that's supposed to mean.

4) Serotta has lost it's way, big time. There's no soul in the company

[FixedNotBroken]

Since the counterfeiting actually did happen with bikes on ebay being touted as Serottas when they were not (or in one case someone saying they put Serotta decals on because they thought they looked cool) the restricted availability for decals is not new.

Serotta stopped selling decals directly to consumers several years ago.

Legitimate refinishers/painters/restorers and dealers used to be able to get them. I know there are virtually no dealers left so that avenue is basically gone.

If they are now saying factory or nothing that IS a new policy, and not a very good one given they have stated recently that refinishing older frames was not a priority.

BK

When you mention dealers, do you mean shops that sell Serotta's? Or what? Just trying to clarify because in Sesttle, Montlake Bike Shop carries them.

[Bruce K]

It was posted that as part of their reorganization, Serotta eliminated a large part of their dealer network.

Only several key dealers/shops were to remain beyond direct sales from Saratoga

BK

[Fixed]

Why would you want one ?
Clean look without IMHO go nude
Cheers

[Bruce K]

I just checked and Serotta's web site list 7 dealers and nothing west of Utah or east of Oakley Cycles in Cincinnatti

BK

[echelon_john]

Only two problems with this approach:

- The 'keep internal records' part
- The part where a Serotta employee has to communicate with a customer

Other than that I think this would work great.


I would think this is easily addressed - keep internal records of how many decals you're sending and ask for a serial # and a photo. If someone is sending fakes, I'm not sure Serotta is the brand to counterfeit.

[Jawn P]

This fear of "counterfeit" is way over the top.

It's a race to the bottom if you feel that way...

[jr59]

Stories like this as well as others, make me very glad that Serotta was such a PIA when I wanted to buy one.

Now, it will have to take major changes in how they treat their current owners, to make me even look at them when I go to spend my money on a new bike.

IMO; if you need customers, treating the people who love and already have your frames poorly, is NOT how to inspire more people to your brand!

[rain dogs]

Sucks, but I'd do the same if I were in their shoes. Protecting your brand has to be a high priority. A few of these decals get out and go onto repainted lemonds, or substandard bikes from China sold as authentic, and it can really cheapen your brand.

Just like purses today, you always are wondering, "is that a real prada? or a counterfeit?" Would be best for a company like serotta to confirm in house that it is a serotta before slapping new decals on it.

This raises a big question about "Brand". Serotta is the brand they are, or was the brand they were because of HOW and WHY they made their bicycles. People buy from Serotta because of that and they just happen to need/desire a bicycle.

This is one of our philosophies with our jerseys. How and why before what. Copying "what" is like a new hobby of capitalism, but you can't copy how and why.

What Serotta needs to protect is more than just the bike. Serotta makes great bikes, very great bikes, but so do hundreds of other builders. What brings them to Serotta is how... and why.

[dustyrider]

Another reason the forum should be consulted first.
This exact issue has been addressed several times, usually with the same polarizing effect. Those who understand and defend, and those who don't and ridicule.

I fall into the don't camp, but since I'd sooner travel around the world then pay the up front charges for one of Serotta's new bikes, I'll merely point out the silliness of the idea. The used market, combined with all the knowledge of this forum does help with this decision.

If you have the heart to keep the name on the bike whforrest there are plenty of aftermarket options, as mentioned, it's what I chose to do since Serotta fed me the same line. Although it took several confusing weeks to get it. I too should have used a less modern form of communication, instead of email!

[benb]

I got decals from them in 2010 for my Concours before this new policy started. (I bought it new in 2007.)

The bigger problem is Serotta is selling at top of the market prices and telling everyone they are the best, and they have a problem with decals falling off.

At their prices this should not be a problem. I have bikes which are old and cost 1/10th what a Serotta frame costs and they have had 0 decal problems in many years.

I don't care what the solution is, but the decals should not be falling off, and they should not be requiring you to ship your bike back to Serotta to fix them. A Serotta should look perfect for years for what they cost.

Maybe make a policy that all bare Ti bikes get brushed in logos instead of decals, or make it a policy that all Ti bikes get painted panels with painted on logos. Or find a way to clearcoat the decals on bare Ti so that they last. There has got to be a solution, and customers having to ship $4000+ frames back every couple years to keep them from looking like sh*t is not the solution.

[sfscott]

I understand the fear of counterfeits.

But really, if a faker wants to knock off a Serotta, given the quality of counterfeiters making everything from Rolexs and Prada to iPhones, a decal sourcing challenge won't be much of a deterrent. A scanner, PhotoShop and a die cutter are not weapons-grade munitions.

Customer service is what builds brand loyalty. If people buy a bike from Serotta once, or maybe every five or eight years, then how do they, as a brand, maintain touch points with the customer? Maintenance aside, BMW and others like it find a way to maintain a relationship...even if it's a Christmas card or a magazine in the mail. Serotta better find a way to help the customer. Sending a decal or helping the customer would seem like a no-brainer.

I had my own F-U moment with them this week. I asked if they could send me the specs on my bike. It's about six years old, and I am going through a Retul fitting to make adjustments. I wanted the specs, including the tubing to see how I've changed since it was built--and whether I ought to be looking for a new frame.

Instead of sure, here it is, I was told that I had to prove I was the original owner and then they probably wouldn't help me anyway because that's not something they share with a customer. But I was free measure it myself!

if their fear is that I would take those measurements and buy a non-Serotta bike, come on. Anyone buying a new bike, especially custom, is going to get re-fit.

Leaving aside that there's no way I would pay 2x the cost of a comparable Seven, Guru or off the peg Colnago for a Meivici, attitude like that makes me think their impending doom is the marketplace working at its finest.

After several custom builds and a lot of pride in ownership, my current Serotta will be my last. For these and other reasons.

[spacemen3]

I just shake my head when I read stuff like this. If you can supply a serial number or even a photo of the bike, Serotta should be happy to supply you with new decals. Why wouldn't they take pride in keeping older models road-worthy and looking good? Their bikes being ridden is way better advertising than their Website.

[FixedNotBroken]

I just checked and Serotta's web site list 7 dealers and nothing west of Utah or east of Oakley Cycles in Cincinnatti

BK

I just went into the Montlake Shop in Seattle and they carry Serotta's and have a Serotta fit bike.

[Fixed]

How does firefly put their name on bikes ?
Cheers
It looks way better IMHO

[benb]

How does firefly put their name on bikes ?
Cheers
It looks way better IMHO

Good question.. do the decals fall off Moots frames? Seven?

edit: Oh here is the Moots solution:

http://moots.myshopify.com/collections/accessories/products/moots-frame-decal-kit

[FixedNotBroken]

My Legend doesn't have decals..it's the bare Ti finish and I have no clue how they did the Serotta logos.

[neaux]

Why build a bike that lasts forever if you're only going to support one owner? A Serotta sitting in a garage covered in dust isn't a very good advertisement. They got their money from the previous owner, if I were buying a new bike it wouldn't be from them anyway. They should cultivate relationships with people who buy them used. There are a lot more of us than there are folks buying them new. You want $300 for a decal if I provide proof that it's authentic? Sure why not if it's better quality than the first one i.e. it'll actually last. Is someone going to spend $300 to fake a Serotta decal? Probably not. They'd just go down the street to a print shop for that.

More than anything this makes me want to remove my decal, have a bunch of fakes printed, and slap them on every beater I see on the street.

[BCS]

I think this would look nice on my Fierte:
http://www.psyclestore.com/products.php?product=Misfit-Psycles-Brass-Headbadge

:banana:

...Or go with a Bradway Capital headbadge attached with double sided sticky tape

[whforrest]

Another reason the forum should be consulted first.
This exact issue has been addressed several times, usually with the same polarizing effect. Those who understand and defend, and those who don't and ridicule.

I fall into the don't camp, but since I'd sooner travel around the world then pay the up front charges for one of Serotta's new bikes, I'll merely point out the silliness of the idea. The used market, combined with all the knowledge of this forum does help with this decision.

If you have the heart to keep the name on the bike whforrest there are plenty of aftermarket options, as mentioned, it's what I chose to do since Serotta fed me the same line. Although it took several confusing weeks to get it. I too should have used a less modern form of communication, instead of email!

It's all good. I know there are many options for decals out there. It was just the first time in all these years that someone at Serotta seemed to give me the cold shoulder and insisted on giving the corporate spewing of making sure it looks the best. It insulted my intelligence. It's over anyway..........I'll finish this serotta build and pursue other frame options in the future. thanks, bill

[130R]

serotta who?

[boxerboxer]

I can understand the frustration, especially for someone who shelled out that much cash, and I think Serotta is probably making a poor business decision.

That said, I can't think of a bike whose appearance wouldn't be improved by the removal of logos. Really, even if passers-by don't know you spent an ungodly amount on your bike will it suddenly stop riding like a dream?

Good luck to you though. I do hope they figure out how little they benefit from this sort of thing.

[Aaron O]

I can understand the frustration, especially for someone who shelled out that much cash, and I think Serotta is probably making a poor business decision.

That said, I can't think of a bike whose appearance wouldn't be improved by the removal of logos. Really, even if passers-by don't know you spent an ungodly amount on your bike will it suddenly stop riding like a dream?

Good luck to you though. I do hope they figure out how little they benefit from this sort of thing.

I understand where you're going with this post, and I'm not one for advertising products, but there's just something beautiful about a bike with the decals and paint it was meant to have. Maybe it's an artistic thing, maybe it's all in my head, but I love looking at a well designed logo. I like it even more when 99% of people have no idea what the logo means.

[illuminaught]

When I bought my Fierte a couple months ago (off eBay), I emailed them. I gave them the serial number and asked if they could provide any information about it, a geometry chart, a model year, anything at all really. I didn't know anything about Serottas.

Their reply was basically, "we can't tell you anything about it because you're not the original owner and that's between us and him/her. Hope you enjoy it." :confused:

(I've since found the geometry chart and information about the bike from the archived website, though I'm still not sure of the model year, not that it matters much.)

VVTF. That is absolute horse-turds.

[boxerboxer]

I understand where you're going with this post, and I'm not one for advertising products, but there's just something beautiful about a bike with the decals and paint it was meant to have. Maybe it's an artistic thing, maybe it's all in my head, but I love looking at a well designed logo. I like it even more when 99% of people have no idea what the logo means.

I certainly can see the appeal more so on a Serotta or something where the name on the bike actually stands for a person who designed/built the thing.

[miguel]

as a former detroit car manufacturing company employee,
serotta's doing the same sort of thing they did.

and I doubt there will be a bailout coming :fight:

[Earl Gray]

....and I doubt there will be a bailout coming :fight:

There already has been one!

[DHallerman]

Wow, just jumping in here.

And to think how positively I thought of Serotta when, just a short time ago, this was the Serotta Forum.

Many of this thread's posts, though, are making me doubt my previous attitudes toward the company.

Dave, who still often thinks of this as the Serotta Forum since Paceline Forum doesn't come off his tongue quite as quickly


Stories like this as well as others, make me very glad that Serotta was such a PIA when I wanted to buy one.

Now, it will have to take major changes in how they treat their current owners, to make me even look at them when I go to spend my money on a new bike.

IMO; if you need customers, treating the people who love and already have your frames poorly, is NOT how to inspire more people to your brand!

[Joachim]

I really hope Serotta reads this... I was seriously thinking of getting a Legend next year, but the fact that the concierge promomised (and cc'ed) someone specific at Serotta to follow up with me regarding a refinish job and subsequently nothing (even after I emailed the person again), I am now probably going with Seven. From their behavior I can only conclude that they have so many customers that they don't need (or want) any new customers.

[Ti Designs]

I told 'em, they didn't listen....

The mistake Serotta made was in trying to hold onto the claim that they made the best bike in the world. First, there's no such thing. Second, they did it at the expense of making a good bike for the rest of the market. Lastly, who doesn't claim to make the best bike?

[jr59]

It seems as if we are watching the slow death of a friend.
Or at least, of an iconic bike brand.
It's really painful to watch, and I REALLY wish it wasn't happening.

I have loved Serottas for as long as I knew what a good bike was.
Got to meet Ben in Atl and be fitted for a new Serotta. I never did get to order it, but have always loved their stuff.

I found this forum as he Serotta forum and made some good friends here. On one hand, I'm glad we changed the name of it, as well as me finding this place when I did. Because now, I would not want to be connected to the brand.

It's like watching a old friend die from cancer. All the while, knowing you can't do one thing to help them. Or even ease their pain.

God, I hope and pray Ben and co, find their way thru thu rough spot. But I don't see how.

It makes me sad.

[Louis]

I'll be frank: I'm sick and tired of these threads.

Someone doesn't get what they want from Serotta, so they post that on the forum. Maybe it's frame geometry or the manufacturing date of a given serial #. This time it's decals (not the first time this has come up). We then get a litany of complaints or grievances followed by predictions of even more doom and gloom.

If only Serotta would listen to us, then surely they would be successful. Either Serotta must be truly incompetent, or we must all be geniuses. Or both. How hard can it be, given all the solutions I see here?

OK guys, we've heard it all before, do we have to re-hash it for the umpteenth time?

Louis

[johnmdesigner]

First, let me say that I own 2 Serottas.

It's sad that you can show up for a ride and instead of someone admiring your bike you get the comment "I hear Serotta is going belly up."

If you own a company in a failing economy with strong competition and you have been forced to scale back your dreams I would think that less arrogance and more customer service would be a better way forward. But it's hard for people (and companies) to admit that they made a mistake and embrace real change that might make a difference.

Second, let me say that I live in New York City where no one ever admits to making a mistake.

I didn't buy these bikes from Serotta I bought them from a dealer who goes the extra mile for his customers. When I had a problem he took care of it right away. I'm not sure I would have gotten the same attention had I contacted the manufacturer directly. He used his clout and his purchasing power to get the problem fixed right away because his reputation demanded it.

I think if you are going to sell directly to your customers there are lessons to be learned from this dealer who bent over backwards to make me happy.

These are not small, insignificant purchases for many of us. I think we are entitled to believe that the company should provide us with service after the sale.

It's the right thing to do and the right way to run a business.

[Elefantino]

Me? I have owned five Serotta bikes and currently have three Serottas.

A Concours.

An Atlanta.

And this.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l84/gmmtwo/d563c924.jpg

This is NOT a counterfeit. Those are real Serotta decals.

I needed one letter to make a repair and was sent a set. That was a while ago, though, and through the intercession of Pete. (The good old days.)

[54ny77]

Cour d' Minivan?

[Fixed]

At least someone was there to answer the phone
Cheers

[pdmtong]

I'll be frank: I'm sick and tired of these threads.

Someone doesn't get what they want from Serotta, so they post that on the forum. Maybe it's frame geometry or the manufacturing date of a given serial #. This time it's decals (not the first time this has come up). We then get a litany of complaints or grievances followed by predictions of even more doom and gloom.

If only Serotta would listen to us, then surely they would be successful. Either Serotta must be truly incompetent, or we must all be geniuses. Or both. How hard can it be, given all the solutions I see here?

OK guys, we've heard it all before, do we have to re-hash it for the umpteenth time?

Louis

me too.

[doode]

I just wanted to jump in here with my thoughts. A while back I contacted IF about a decal for my older crown jewel and received a very polite response about decals only being sent to painters ect. No problem!

Second, I work for a trims company and one thing we supply is stickers. Hey, sometimes corners are cut at the factory level and adhesives don't perform as they should, or finishes repel the adhesive used. Bottom line is it's not uncommon for customers to tell us their stickers are falling off the product. Best we can do is replace it, but as you read the damage has already been done. BTW, don't the decals go under the clearcoat?

[Louis]

BTW, don't the decals go under the clearcoat?

Most of the time, but not always.

[jpw]

Good question.. do the decals fall off Moots frames? Seven?

edit: Oh here is the Moots solution:

http://moots.myshopify.com/collections/accessories/products/moots-frame-decal-kit

To be fair, Moots decals had a well known tendency to crack and split.

[mcteague]

My Seven Axiom is about 10 years old now. When they switched to the new logo font I asked if they could sell me a set of the original style in case mine ever got torn. No problem they said. Well, they lost the order, placed a new one and said it would ship right away. Still no decals. A few e-mails later they apologized and sent me two sets for free. Don't know their current policy on replacements but my original ones are still holding up. Good thing as I don't know where I put the spares!

Tim

[93legendti]

I'm going to ride my Serotta Ottrott ST this morning. It's my go to bike.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm going to ride my Serotta Ottrott ST this morning. It's my go to bike.

I'm gonna ride my...............nope not gonna go there.

Customer service is key, ask any good manufacturer, distributor, retail store.

Honesty, good product, good customer service...pretty simple.

One of the 2 'dealers' in Boulder doesn't even mention serotta on their web site.

I doubt they have any floor bikes. I know Doug, he is a smart guy.

[93legendti]

I'm gonna ride my...............nope not gonna go there.

Customer service is key, ask any good manufacturer, distributor, retail store.

Honesty, good product, good customer service...pretty simple.

One of the 2 'dealers' in Boulder doesn't even mention serotta on their web site.

I doubt they have any floor bikes. I know Doug, he is a smart guy.

I know. You're a Moots and Waterford dealer. I believe you're a former Serotta dealer. You've told us a few times.

I've had great customer service from Serotta, Dave Kirk, Tom Kellogg and Carl Strong.

[Ti Designs]

I'm going to ride my Serotta Ottrott ST this morning. It's my go to bike.

The quality of past product and the direction of the company now have little in common. I've been on my Serotta for 7 seasons now. I'll switch when I find something better, which hasn't happened yet. Mine is the "budget bike", a custom version of the Fierte which later became the La Corsa, but I still see no reason to replace it. I also work in a bike shop and I sell lots of high end bikes. At some point in the sale the customer always asks "what do you ride", and I feel a little funny telling them. Serotta did something very right back then, but all good things must come to an end.

[PoppaWheelie]

I've posted the elsewhere...it makes me sad for sure...

I emailed Serotta about buying an S1 fork and got an email back telling me I could now only buy a $750 F3 fork. The email also shared the unsolicited info that you could no longer buy decals and that all geometries were proprietary and would no longer be shared.

My first thought was of course that any dummy could have a set of decals made in a day if he/she wanted to play the counterfeit game. Second was that if I had the chops to make a bike frame (or had someone lined up to make me one) and wanted to borrow one of Serotta's proprietary geometries it would take about 15 minutes to just measure the darn thing.

All they've done is hamper and slightly limit access, which of course has just pissed people off. They have, clearly, saved themselves the headache of having to interact with their customers.

EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, I got the $750 info from my local dealer, not Serotta. The email from Serotta came via auto-responder and stated that they would get back to me shortly about my request to buy a fork (with a "BTW" regarding the decals and secret geometries) and they never did. Even better.

[Climb01742]

it's an inverse relationship: the smaller you are in the market, the better your customer service should be. not only is every customer more valuable to a smaller company, but good (hopefully great) customer service is, relatively speaking, one of the most affordable forms of marketing you can do. yes, customer service takes time from your day, but every other form of 'marketing' takes far more money and resources.

serotta is an increasingly smaller player in the bike ecosystem. rather than treating present and past owners worse, they should be treating them far better than ever.

every serotta frame that is out in the world is, in essence, an ambassador for the brand. a sample for someone to ride and to begin pre-selling the rider on a new serotta. a bridge to the brand that a wise company would be trying to entice riders to cross.

every existing serotta frame and rider is an opportunity for the brand. not, as they now seem to view them, a nuisance.

[jr59]

it's an inverse relationship: the smaller you are in the market, the better your customer service should be. not only is every customer more valuable to a smaller company, but good (hopefully great) customer service is, relatively speaking, one of the most affordable forms of marketing you can do. yes, customer service takes time from your day, but every other form of 'marketing' takes far more money and resources.

serotta is an increasingly smaller player in the bike ecosystem. rather than treating present and past owners worse, they should be treating them far better than ever.

every serotta frame that is out in the world is, in essence, an ambassador for the brand. a sample for someone to ride and to begin pre-selling the rider on a new serotta. a bridge to the brand that a wise company would be trying to entice riders to cross.

every existing serotta frame and rider is an opportunity for the brand. not, as they now seem to view them, a nuisance.


:hello::hello:

Well said.
A while ago on facebook, our very own Keith posted on Serotta's page, that they should read this board.
Serotta replied that it did indeed read the paceline forum. So maybe it does matter!

I hope they read threads like this.

[ahsere]

The whole thing about not selling decals for fear people will put them on non-Serotta frames is utterly ridiculous. You can buy decals online from different sources that will reproduce Serotta´s font, colors, whatever, for about $20-$30. Or your painter can do it for you. That´s what I did when I decided to repaint my Gunnar (love the frame, not the Gunnar font styles). Serotta should know that in this globalized world you can get anything done, and with something as low tech as decals the fakes are just as good and durable as the originals. By keeping their snotty attitude, all they get is less business and a few pissed off customers, and they are not protecting the brand at all. People who want to put Serotta decals on a crappy frame will do it anyway. I certainly don´t get it.

[false_Aest]

Serotta has paired with GMAC circa 2007. Everything will be ok when the TARP fund kicks in.

In the meantime I'm gonna go buy some of that inkjet iron-on decal stuff.

IIRC, Serotta charged $50+s/h for decals. I got you covered for $45 including shipping and I'll even make you a t-shirt.*






*font face is guaranteed; sprelleg is not.

[oldpotatoe]

I know. You're a Moots and Waterford dealer. I believe you're a former Serotta dealer. You've told us a few times.

I've had great customer service from Serotta, Dave Kirk, Tom Kellogg and Carl Strong.

I was the number 1 Serotta dealer in the entire world when at ProPeloton, didn't just 'sell' them but SOLD them. I left PP in 2000. Their sales went from about 150 per year to about 12.

ProPeloton dropped them about 2 years ago.

If ya want to know why I never sold serotta at Vecchio's, email me and I'll tell you.

Geee, lemmee check......yep.....yes......ahh.....

Nope didn't even mention what I sold in my post, didn't tell you this time but thanks for mentioning it, saved me the keystrokes.

Of the 4 YOU mentioned, only one deals with bike shops, BTW( ya know that 'other' customer?). And the other is going the same way, for good or ill.

Ya know, you can get upset that I mention the 2 brands that do very well, but 'maybe' serotta could learn a thing or two from them and the other midrange frame builders(IF, Seven to mention 2), or not.

[avalonracing]

This is why I got that PS file of Serotta decals, if they don't want me to put legit stickers on counterfeit bikes I'll put counterfeit stickers on a legitimate bike.


Love this idea.

[BobbyJones]

"...don't worry, that customer will never bother you again!"

[nighthawk]

Just had an interesting conversation with a Serotta dealer here in Western MA. Apparently Serotta has a 12 (or so) minimum on bikes that dealers need to keep in stock. If you opt to not meet this minimum, the shop can still be a dealer, but they won't be listed on Serotta's website, which is why so few dealers actually show up on that list. LBSs that carry Serottas, have fit cycles and are fit certified are out there.... Serotta just doesn't want you to know.

Atleast that's what I heard.

[echelon_john]

Which is asinine. It's basically asking dealers to purchase $30-$40k worth of sales samples that are just used to get the conversation and maybe do a test ride "even though we'll tweak the fit just for you."

I talked to an LBS owner the other day who loves another niche company that makes travel bikes. He and his wife own them, and they've put a bunch of their customers on them. But they won't list him as a dealer unless he puts one of every model on his floor, including a recumbent. This is in a small shop that probably only has 400ft2 of floor space for bikes.

If you're that shop, you need to ask what will make you more money: that sample Serotta sitting there, or a full size run of (name a generic $499 hybrid or mtb) bikes that will go out the door every Saturday and not require a fitting, phone calls, headaches...

It's positioned as Serotta dropping dealers, but it seems like a lot of dealers have in essence dropped Serotta because of the hassle.




Just had an interesting conversation with a Serotta dealer here in Western MA. Apparently Serotta has a 12 (or so) minimum on bikes that dealers need to keep in stock. If you opt to not meet this minimum, the shop can still be a dealer, but they won't be listed on Serotta's website, which is why so few dealers actually show up on that list. LBSs that carry Serottas, have fit cycles and are fit certified are out there.... Serotta just doesn't want you to know.

Atleast that's what I heard.

[peanutgallery]

look on the bright side, a real live response

[Bill Stephens]

We at Serotta like to receive input from our customers. And we want you to know that we're listening to your concerns. If you need replacement Serotta branded logo decals for your bike, we now have information posted on the Repair & Refinish page at Serotta.com: http://serotta.com/repair-refinish/

Bill Stephens
Communications Manager
Serotta
bill.stephens@serotta.com

[AngryScientist]

wow, cool. thanks for chiming in here Bill. this is great news and a good step forward for Serotta. I sincerely hope you stick around (decal joke!) and continue to take part in the forum, cheers!

[DRZRM]

This is great news, nice to see the company willing to change to meet demand. Toby at Hot Tubes is great (my closest authorized refinisher) I have 3 frames he's painted (well # three is on the way) and he is reasonably priced and easy to work with.

Good job Serotta.

[christian]

That list of re-finishers, by the way, is great. It is the best reference for top bicycle painters in the US that I've seen. Everyone should be squirreling away that .pdf.

[BumbleBeeDave]

If Serotta now has a real communications manager who is tasked with customer communications . . . and representing the brand officially on this board and elsehwere . . . THAT is the big news and the most positive thing I have seen in a longtime.

BBD

[sworcester]

We at Serotta like to receive input from our customers. And we want you to know that we're listening to your concerns. If you need replacement Serotta branded logo decals for your bike, we now have information posted on the Repair & Refinish page at Serotta.com: http://serotta.com/repair-refinish/

Bill Stephens
Communications Manager
Serotta
bill.stephens@serotta.com

This actually excites me. I will test the system and make my request today!

[DRZRM]

Good point. This is absolutely true!

If Serotta now has a real communications manager who is tasked with customer communications . . . and representing the brand officially on this board and elsehwere . . . THAT is the big news and the most positive thing I have seen in a longtime.

BBD

[jr59]

If Serotta now has a real communications manager who is tasked with customer communications . . . and representing the brand officially on this board and elsehwere . . . THAT is the big news and the most positive thing I have seen in a longtime.

BBD


Could not agree any more. it is a real step in the right direction indeed!

[dekindy]

We at Serotta like to receive input from our customers. And we want you to know that we're listening to your concerns. If you need replacement Serotta branded logo decals for your bike, we now have information posted on the Repair & Refinish page at Serotta.com: http://serotta.com/repair-refinish/

Bill Stephens
Communications Manager
Serotta
bill.stephens@serotta.com

What is the procedure for getting on the list? My riding buddy, Craig Ryan of Foresta frames, restores bikes and has offered to do my Colorado for a good price and I would like to update the decals. Hope it will not be a hassle.

[FlashUNC]

Let's hope it brings some lasting change.

A fairly straightforward question I sent along two weeks ago via their website about getting some work done on a recently acquired Serotta Fierte has yet to be answered. So there's clearly some kinks still left in the system.

[jlwdm]

Let's hope it brings some lasting change.

A fairly straightforward question I sent along two weeks ago via their website about getting some work done on a recently acquired Serotta Fierte has yet to be answered. So there's clearly some kinks still left in the system.


Did you contact Bill Stephens?

Jeff

[Ahneida Ride]

I stop by the Factory periodically, and I gotta tell ya ...

I see positive changes ... The big S is moving in the right direction. :banana:

[Ahneida Ride]

Let's hope it brings some lasting change.

A fairly straightforward question I sent along two weeks ago via their website about getting some work done on a recently acquired Serotta Fierte has yet to be answered. So there's clearly some kinks still left in the system.

Sen me a PM if you want me to get involved.

[Bill Stephens]

Let's hope it brings some lasting change.

A fairly straightforward question I sent along two weeks ago via their website about getting some work done on a recently acquired Serotta Fierte has yet to be answered. So there's clearly some kinks still left in the system.

FlashUNC: When we could not find the email you submitted via Serotta.com, it alerted us to a glitch in the website's contact form. We're working on fixing that and apologize for this "kink." Meanwhile, would you be willing to send us an email at teamserotta@serotta.com regarding what work you would like performed on your new-to-you Fierte? Our customer service department is responding promptly to email sent to that address. Thanks for your patience.

Bill Stephens
Communications Manager
Serotta
bill.stephens@serotta.com

[jr59]

FlashUNC: When we could not find the email you submitted via Serotta.com, it alerted us to a glitch in the website's contact form. We're working on fixing that and apologize for this "kink." Meanwhile, would you be willing to send us an email at teamserotta@serotta.com regarding what work you would like performed on your new-to-you Fierte? Our customer service department is responding promptly to email sent to that address. Thanks for your patience.

Bill Stephens
Communications Manager
Serotta
bill.stephens@serotta.com

HOW GOOD IS THIS!!!! :hello::hello::hello::hello::hello:

:banana::banana::banana:

[FlashUNC]

FlashUNC: When we could not find the email you submitted via Serotta.com, it alerted us to a glitch in the website's contact form. We're working on fixing that and apologize for this "kink." Meanwhile, would you be willing to send us an email at teamserotta@serotta.com regarding what work you would like performed on your new-to-you Fierte? Our customer service department is responding promptly to email sent to that address. Thanks for your patience.

Bill Stephens
Communications Manager
Serotta
bill.stephens@serotta.com

Good to hear Bill. I'll shoot you a note at that email.

[Bill Stephens]

If you used the Contact Us form on Serotta.com, please check out this blog post (http://serotta.com/our-apologies-website-contact-us-form-didnt-live-up-to-its-name/). Thank you.

Bill Stephens
Communications Manager
Serotta
bill.stephens@serotta.com

[Joachim]

This is the beginning of what seems like a great turnaround for Serotta. Makes me want to finish building up my Ottrott and start thinking about a new Legend :).

[jerome]

Sucks, but I'd do the same if I were in their shoes. Protecting your brand has to be a high priority. A few of these decals get out and go onto repainted lemonds, or substandard bikes from China sold as authentic, and it can really cheapen your brand.

Just like purses today, you always are wondering, "is that a real prada? or a counterfeit?" Would be best for a company like serotta to confirm in house that it is a serotta before slapping new decals on it.


it is a bit simplistic you can have some made everywhere and buy some for less on the internet.
if you feel so much in peril an so under-confident you are dead !

[Ahneida Ride]

I stop by the Factory periodically, and I gotta tell ya ...

I see positive changes ... The big S is moving in the right direction. :banana:

Told ya so !!!! :banana: