Shout out to Chris Froome (Spoiler Content)

[firerescuefin]

Not a new topic on the forum...but watching him tow Bradley around again today, speaks to what a great teammate this guy is. He had something for Valverde, but let him go to pace Wiggo.

Yes...he is getting PAID, but as we've seen in the past, lots of guys don't back up what they say they're going to do when it comes to subjugating their personal ambitions in a grand tour to be a great teammate. If you can't see that he would have put minutes into Sir Bradley at this point, then I can't help you.

Wiggins has come out in the last couple of days and said he will repay Froome and help him win the Tour someday. I hope that's true....and I hope that Wiggins comes into "that" Tour with the type of form that he is able to actually help when it means something.

After the effort expended here, I doubt Froome has enough in the tank to take Alberto on in the Vuelta..especially since that's all Alberto has to focus on this year....but I'll be pulling for him

[Volant]

Why didn't Wiggo waive Froome ahead to go and try to win the stage today? It didn't look like he needed him in the final 3k - 4k and it looked like Froome wanted to bust away.

[monkeybanana86]

there was a nice video of froome and then wiggins post stage ride but i think it's been removed. anyway, wiggins said that after he knew that they had pretty much won the tdf he wasn't focussing and just riding especially after knowing that nibali had cracked. that's what he said

[monkeybanana86]

froome said to bw he wanted the stage and wiggins said yeah go for it but i suspect he probably changed his plans and didn't want to make wiggins look bad?

[gasman]

He could have had the stage today-I agree. Seemed like BW was giving him the green light but Froome just decided to stay with him. So different that '86.I bet Wiggo will help Froome next year if that's what they decide.
They both have class (I think)

[goonster]

If you can't see that he would have put minutes into Sir Bradley at this point, then I can't help you.
With respect, that's speculation.

He deserves a ton of credit for being strong, and for playing the role he's been given on this team, but I'd hate to hear a "Chris Froome could have won the Tour if he had wanted to" meme catch on.

[MattTuck]

Wiggins will be an absolute failure as a domestique, even a super domestique. Froome, on the other hand is the perfect one. Having the explosive power to cover accelerations and bring guys back is what the lieutenants need to do, wiggins has the big diesel, but not the quick responses to attack after attack.

Froome may have been the right domestique for wiggins in the mountains, but wiggins will not be the right one for froome.

Andy/Nibali/Contador/Rolland will attack and Froome will have to respond immediately (in which case he might see wiggo several minutes later) or you let them go and hope that wiggo can diesel his way up to them.

[firerescuefin]

Goonster...If this wasn't the second time I watched this exact scenario play out in a Grand Tour...I would tend to agree with you. He's a better climber (Wiggins doesn't debate that)...and can manage small losses to Wiggins in the TT. Not trying to be argumentative, but Froome has been the stronger rider in this Tour, hands down...and FWIW, I am not a "fan" of either guy.

Matt...I think given Wiggins engine and background that he could make things very uncomfortable for a select group on the front as the last guy for Froome...springboarding a Froome attack. Riding above your limit and popping is different than watching Wiggins managing his efforts not to pop.

[firerescuefin]

froome said to bw he wanted the stage and wiggins said yeah go for it but i suspect he probably changed his plans and didn't want to make wiggins look bad?

I think this is spot on.

[tiretrax]

Also, it would have put Froome to close to Wiggin's time, if not passing him.

I have to give Cadel credit for letting Tejay go yesterday. I have had a great deal of respect for him since he singlehandedly tried to reel in Andy last year without complaint that he was pulling along 4 guys. Then, crushing him the next day in the TT. I am disappointed that he hasn't been in better form this year. I think he rode to conservatively in the Alps. I was never a fan of his, but the SKY jugger-knot is boring to watch.

[Louis]

the SKY jugger-knot is boring to watch.

I remember reading the same thing on French message boards when LA and the "Train Bleu" were rolling.

[dauwhe]

So could Froome gain enough time in the mountains to make up for (small) losses in the time trials? It's like Indurain/Rominger in 1993, except both on the same (insanely strong) team...

[Karin Kirk]

I am not one to bash the TdF because I thoroughly enjoy watching the drama unfold every day. But today's stage left me wanting. It would have satisfied the curiosities of lots of fans to see just how far Froome could get up the road. I thought their hesitation and apparent confusion was a bit lame. I mean they had virtually nothing to lose and have played it so safe all along. This was their one moment to let things hang out a bit and take some risks. I'm shouting at the TV, "come on, go already!" But they just watched each other, rather Schleck-like. Yawn. And for that, Valverde was able to score the win. Good for him!

But all through the tour I've been waiting to become a Wiggins fan. It hasn't happened.

[FlashUNC]

I think Froome made the right move. They have the Tour won. What happens is Wiggo has a mechanical in the last few K and Froome isn't there to hand him a wheel? Crazier stuff has happened.

[CaptStash]

I think Froome made the right move. They have the Tour won. What happens is Wiggo has a mechanical in the last few K and Froome isn't there to hand him a wheel? Crazier stuff has happened.

Exactly! The TdF is a team sport - at least sort of, and Team Sky is riding as a very good, very disciplined team. I for one am thoroughly enjoying watching them and am becoming a big Wiggo fan.

CaptStash....

[thwart]

Lee Rodgers has a piece about Froome in today's stage (from Pez Cycling):

Some might interpret it more as him cajoling Wiggins to ride harder to gap Nibali, but the way he turned to look at Wiggins, he was practically shouting at the Yellow Jersey with his eyes. As a rider I was annoyed by Froome’s body language. Either do your job and ride for the team as you’ve all planned for months and keep quiet about it - and do it in a dignified way - or go and see if you really can smash the race open and suffer the consequences on the team bus later.

When you ride with someone as much as Wiggins and Froome do, you instinctively know if the speed at any given moment is too high. There was just no need for Froome to gap him like that. I’m not a huge Wiggo fan but now I’m glad he’s winning, he’s ridden a very good race and had his nerves tested by his lieutenant along the way.

Well put, I'd say.

[firerescuefin]

Lee Rodgers has a piece about Froome in today's stage (from Pez Cycling):

Some might interpret it more as him cajoling Wiggins to ride harder to gap Nibali, but the way he turned to look at Wiggins, he was practically shouting at the Yellow Jersey with his eyes. As a rider I was annoyed by Froome’s body language. Either do your job and ride for the team as you’ve all planned for months and keep quiet about it - and do it in a dignified way - or go and see if you really can smash the race open and suffer the consequences on the team bus later.

When you ride with someone as much as Wiggins and Froome do, you instinctively know if the speed at any given moment is too high. There was just no need for Froome to gap him like that. I’m not a huge Wiggo fan but now I’m glad he’s winning, he’s ridden a very good race and had his nerves tested by his lieutenant along the way.

Well put, I'd say.

Tom...have to strongly disagree. He could have rode for the win today...and he could have forced Sky's hand and rode for the overall win a week ago. The man could have won the frickin Tour de France, and he should have won the Vuelta.....you don't think he's struggling with this...would you???

I love it when the media criticizes a guy for not acting exactly how he or she "thinks" they should.....complete garbage IMO.

[thwart]

Froome signed a contract and knew exactly what his role was.

His gapping Wiggins today and the other day... the repeated looks back and the sitting up stuff... sure didn't look like a team player to me. It's not like Wiggins was cracking either time.

Looked to me that Froome wanted to convince the 20 million watching that he was really the best rider, but was being held back.

Again, IMO.

[FlashUNC]

So is all this moot if Wiggo puts 4 mins or more into Froome over the time trial?

For good or ill, this has been Brailsford's approach from day 1, whether with British Cycling, or Team Sky. Look at the World's last year. Everyone has to be 100% committed to getting Cav across the line first, and sacrificing any chance of getting the rainbow jersey. Anyone who couldn't buy into that, didn't make the squad.

Cycle Sport had an interesting behind the scenes look at how that team and that win was essentially three years in the making. And sure enough, Cav's in the stripes.

I'm sure its been made crystal clear to Froome from Day 1, this is the program. Either you're on board or sitting at home. Sure, he'll go somewhere else. RadioShack Nissan -- if they're still around -- might open up the checkbook for him.

Maybe I'm just partial to Wiggins because of his fantastic throwback sideburns. Positively De Vlaeminck-esque.

[firerescuefin]

Froome signed a contract and knew exactly what his role was.

His gapping Wiggins today and the other day... the repeated looks back and the sitting up stuff... sure didn't look like a team player to me. It's not like Wiggins was cracking either time.

Looked to me that Froome wanted to convince the 20 million watching that he was really the best rider, but was being held back.

Again, IMO.


Tom...respect your opinion, but my heart goes out to Froome. You take a job...you're compensated well, but you know you're better...and you know this isn't the first Grand Tour you could have won...but for being a good teammate and following team orders. I would expect there to be an internal struggle...I know I would have one. He could have a training accident next week and never get a shot again...or other riders could come up that are better and effectively close the window. Honestly, this may have been his best shot. So people (especially media types) that want to throw darts at this guy really get under my skin. How the hell is supposed to feel??

From Eurosport today: FWIW...Big Wiggins supporters. Their take is a little different...hence my "making a story out of a non story"...Pez


But once again it was Team Sky duo Wiggins and Froome who emerged strongest – and entering the final 4km the top two riders in this year’s GC pulled ahead of all their rivals.

Froome, looking very much the stronger of the two, kept on checking his and looking over his shoulder to encourage the yellow jersey. Rather than pressing on to contest Valverde for the stage victory, Froome chose to work for his team leader. The pair slowed and were almost caught by Pinot by the time they crossed the line 19 seconds down on Valverde.

“We were not here today to win the stage today - our focus was to protect the yellow jersey,” Froome said after Sky consolidated their stranglehold at the top of the standings. “I wouldn’t say anything was definite yet,” he added. “I’d rather finish things off before we start talking about the overall win.”

Wiggins was quick to thank Froome for another selfless display in the mountains. "He's been a fantastic team-mate during this Tour de France. For sure, one day, he'll win the Tour and I'll be there beside him to do it," he said.

[christian]

But all through the tour I've been waiting to become a Wiggins fan. It hasn't happened.Yup. That's just exactly the score.

[thwart]

Hey Chris, just different perspectives on things. I can see your point, even though I may not agree. ;)

Wiggins was quick to thank Froome for another selfless display in the mountains. "He's been a fantastic team-mate during this Tour de France. For sure, one day, he'll win the Tour and I'll be there beside him to do it," he said.

Classy quote from Wiggo... too bad he used up all his fire/charisma/whatever with the media during that first week. He's been kinda vanilla since...

[estilley]

Froome's the man.

And he will probably be the first African to win the Tour.

[wc1934]

Froome kept looking back to find Wiggins and offer encouragement- his neck is going to be the sorest part of his body - need to put a mirror on his bike - consummate teammate, as he clearly was the strongest in this tour (Lemond/Hinault part II).

[acorn_user]

For good or ill, this has been Brailsford's approach from day 1, whether with British Cycling, or Team Sky. Look at the World's last year. Everyone has to be 100% committed to getting Cav across the line first, and sacrificing any chance of getting the rainbow jersey. Anyone who couldn't buy into that, didn't make the squad.



I think there is an institutional memory of the 2005 Worlds when Charlie Wegelius and Tom Southam rode for the Italians instead of for Roger Hammond. That was pretty humiliating.

[Black Dog]

I think Froome made the right move. They have the Tour won. What happens is Wiggo has a mechanical in the last few K and Froome isn't there to hand him a wheel? Crazier stuff has happened.

Nonsense! They do not have the tour won until the cross the finish line in Paris. A lot can happen. What if Nibali gained time on the duo moved into second place and later Wigo crashed out... Also, there is a team car right behind to give wigo a wheel or even a bike. It was a bad tactical play on the part of Sky to not let him go that close to the end. They could have a stage win, more time on 3rd place and better secure a Team Sky TDF win.

[slidey]

And unfortunately, Cadel contracted a stomach virus a couple of hours before the start of the 1st Pyrenees stage. But yeah, he was quite conservative in the Alps.


I am disappointed that he hasn't been in better form this year. I think he rode to conservatively in the Alps. I was never a fan of his, but the SKY jugger-knot is boring to watch.

[jpw]

I think Froome made the right move. They have the Tour won. What happens is Wiggo has a mechanical in the last few K and Froome isn't there to hand him a wheel? Crazier stuff has happened.

+1, word.

[jpw]

Froome's the man.

And he will probably be the first African to win the Tour.

'Lemond' sounds a bit French to me.

[cfox]

Nonsense! They do not have the tour won until the cross the finish line in Paris. A lot can happen. What if Nibali gained time on the duo moved into second place and later Wigo crashed out... Also, there is a team car right behind to give wigo a wheel or even a bike. It was a bad tactical play on the part of Sky to not let him go that close to the end. They could have a stage win, more time on 3rd place and better secure a Team Sky TDF win.
Froome already has a stage win and he'll finish second. Sky had a perfect plan and the team to carry it out.

[cfox]

If you can't see that he would have put minutes into Sir Bradley at this point, then I can't help you.



please...dude...with the "I can't help you" stuff. You somehow know how long his attacks would have lasted? You know he wouldn't have blown up? His best ride in the Vuelta last year, he couldn't drop freakin JJ Cobo for more than a few seconds on a mountain top, not to mention getting dropped on the Angliru. Is he a better climber than Wiggo? Yes, but his ability in the mountains is far less predictable than Wiggo in the TT. If Froome wants to show he's the man, he needs to win the TT Saturday (and he could) rather than that BS at the end of the climb yesterday.

[firerescuefin]

please...dude...with the "I can't help you" stuff. You somehow know how long his attacks would have lasted? You know he wouldn't have blown up? His best ride in the Vuelta last year, he couldn't drop freakin JJ Cobo for more than a few seconds on a mountain top, not to mention getting dropped on the Angliru. Is he a better climber than Wiggo? Yes, but his ability in the mountains is far less predictable than Wiggo in the TT. If Froome wants to show he's the man, he needs to win the TT Saturday (and he could) rather than that BS at the end of the climb yesterday.

Look up Froome's TT times against Wiggins in their races together. I'll be waiting here for the next month as you try to find stages where Wiggins put considerable time into Froome. BTW...you'll find examples where Froome put time into him. http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/08/news/htcs-tony-martin-wins-vuelta-time-trial-takes-the-lead_190415

On the the Angliru...he was waiting for Wiggins...and they were both overgeared for the stage...which had more to do with the outcome of that stage than anything...as Cobo rode away from them with about 4 more teeth, which was pretty big advantage when the slopes hit 23%

Some Angliru gearing
Cobo 34×32 (28.3-inch);
Nibali 34×29 (31.2-inch);
Froome and Wiggins 38×32 (31.6-inch);

The "BS yesterday" has happened on each of the mountain stages. Wiggins put 35 seconds into Froome on the TT (Froome finished 2nd on the stage)...where else has he put a single second into him...nowhere. Are you going to tell me that Froome wouldn't have put 35 seconds into Wiggins in the mountains...cmon "dude"

I've got to ask...have you been watching this Tour (no sarcasm intended)....especially the mountain stages

.....keep the analysis coming.

[soulspinner]

I guess in all this the thing that bothers me is after the prologue Wiggo was the man all the way. Would have been nice if Cadel or Nibali could have gotten up the road far enough to make it a RACE...........

[firerescuefin]

I guess in all this the thing that bothers me is after the prologue Wiggo was the man all the way. Would have been nice if Cadel or Nibali could have gotten up the road far enough to make it a RACE...........

I have to give it to Nibali for trying to "win" rather than ride for a podium spot.

[cfox]

Look up Froome's TT times against Wiggins in their races together. I'll be waiting here for the next month as you try to find stages where Wiggins put considerable time into Froome. BTW...you'll find examples where Froome put time into him. http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/08/news/htcs-tony-martin-wins-vuelta-time-trial-takes-the-lead_190415

On the the Angliru...he was waiting for Wiggins...and they were both overgeared for the stage...which had more to do with the outcome of that stage than anything...as Cobo rode away from them with about 4 more teeth, which was pretty big advantage when the slopes hit 23%

Some Angliru gearing
Cobo 34×32 (28.3-inch);
Nibali 34×29 (31.2-inch);
Froome and Wiggins 38×32 (31.6-inch);

The "BS yesterday" has happened on each of the mountain stages. Wiggins put 35 seconds into Froome on the TT (Froome finished 2nd on the stage)...where else has he put a single second into him...nowhere. Are you going to tell me that Froome wouldn't have put 35 seconds into Wiggins in the mountains...cmon "dude"

I've got to ask...have you been watching this Tour (no sarcasm intended)....especially the mountain stages

.....keep the analysis coming.
I have been watching. The BS I am referring to wasn't the waiting, it was the constant looking back, waving through, etc. It was posturing plain and simple. No biggie, but kinda douchey. I know Froome is talented, I know he can TT. The analysis is this: in a heavy TT tour, it is a MUCH safer strategy to go with a known entity, Wiggo in a TT, than to rely on taking time in the mountains where, regardless of how good a climber you are, things are MUCH more volatile and unpredictable. If you don't understand that, you don't understand stage racing, sorry. Has Froome beaten Wiggo in a TT this year? Froome is also plagued by serious health issues which complicates things for his role as a leader. Will he get sick out of the blue in the 2nd or 3rd week? These are all things Sky has weighed going into this race. The Vuelta? He put a whopping one (1) second into JJ Cobo on the final summit. He dropped Cobo, but Cobo dieseled back on. Chris Froome is not Alberto Contador. Like I said, Froome has a chance on Saturday; crush Wiggo in the TT and he's clearly The Man, no questions.

[tsarpepe]

I have been watching. The BS I am referring to wasn't the waiting, it was the constant looking back, waving through, etc. It was posturing plain and simple. No biggie, but kinda douchey. I know Froome is talented, I know he can TT. The analysis is this: in a heavy TT tour, it is a MUCH safer strategy to go with a known entity, Wiggo in a TT, than to rely on taking time in the mountains where, regardless of how good a climber you are, things are MUCH more volatile and unpredictable. If you don't understand that, you don't understand stage racing, sorry. Has Froome beaten Wiggo in a TT this year? Froome is also plagued by serious health issues which complicates things for his role as a leader. Will he get sick out of the blue in the 2nd or 3rd week? These are all things Sky has weighed going into this race. The Vuelta? He put a whopping one (1) second into JJ Cobo on the final summit. He dropped Cobo, but Cobo dieseled back on. Chris Froome is not Alberto Contador. Like I said, Froome has a chance on Saturday; crush Wiggo in the TT and he's clearly The Man, no questions.


Completely agree. Froome's behavior was pure BS. You just don't do that kind of stuff. Either stay with your guy or dart. You don't go 50m ahead, then look back and wave your hand to show him up. I am not saying anything against Froome's form, which may well be better than Wiggins's, but this was quite simply unethical, immature stuff.

[laupsi]

Completely agree. Froome's behavior was pure BS. You just don't do that kind of stuff. Either stay with your guy or dart. You don't go 50m ahead, then look back and wave your hand to show him up. I am not saying anything against Froome's form, which may well be better than Wiggins's, but this was quite simply unethical, immature stuff.

you do know you are basing your opinions purely on what you "saw" on a television set or computer screen, no? I also "saw" BW and CF trade conversation prior to Froome's acceleration, and from that I can cleary surmise that the two of them agreed to attack the peleton, that they were in an ideal situation and by doing so they agreed they were going to put more time on their chief rivals. I "think" Froome got a little gitty, he's riding strong, their team is sitting 1st & 2nd on GC and he being a little young didn't realize BW was not capable of keeping up w/his bursts up the hill. I also "think" CF is a class act and doesn't at all resemble the person you've described.

[tsarpepe]

It is true, I am basing my comments on what I saw. Also on what CF said: he declared that the goal was not to win the stage for SKY. OK, then what are you doing dropping your leader, then engaging in all those theatrics, then doing it AGAIN after he catches up?!

[laupsi]

It is true, I am basing my comments on what I saw. Also on what CF said: he declared that the goal was not to win the stage for SKY. OK, then what are you doing dropping your leader, then engaging in all those theatrics, then doing it AGAIN after he catches up?!

Froome waited for Wiggins, what you call theatrics I call racing. Done any?

[e-RICHIE]

Froome waited for Wiggins, what you call theatrics I call racing. Done any?

I race. And know the dynamic of team tactics and ever-changing relationships and priorities.
Froome showed an overzealous streak simply because he had the tools and wanted to show
anyone who was watching. No real big deal. There's no way his exhibition would have become
a larger problem for Sky or Wiggens.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool::);)
:rolleyes::);)
;):cool::cool:

[Black Dog]

Completely agree. Froome's behavior was pure BS. You just don't do that kind of stuff. Either stay with your guy or dart. You don't go 50m ahead, then look back and wave your hand to show him up. I am not saying anything against Froome's form, which may well be better than Wiggins's, but this was quite simply unethical, immature stuff.

Why is it so simple that there are only two options, stay or dart? Life and racing is not black and white. The fact is he could have gone, should have been given the OK to go from Wigo and the team, but he stayed put. Why assume that he was showing him up? You have no real idea what he was intending, but you do assume much and judge him harshly. Not trying to pick a fight here but the facts on the road and in the race as it progressed do show that Froome could have gone and gained some time for himself and another stage win for Team Sky with zero risk to the team and further insure that Team Sky wins the TDF. In a race like the tour it is folly to not gain time when you can (Rolland's cheap move aside).

[laupsi]

Why is is so simple that there are only two options, stay or dart? Life and racing is not black and white. The fact is he could have gone, should have been given the OK to go from Wigo and the team, but he stayed put. Why assume that he was showing him up? You have no real idea what he was intending, but you do assume much and judge him harshly. Not trying to pick a fight here but the facts on the road and in the race as it progressed do show that Froome could have gone and gained some time for himself and another stage win for Team Sky with zero risk to the team and further insure that Team Sky wins the TDF. In a race like the tour it is folly to not gain time when you can (Rolland's cheap move aside).

+1, all the negative comments are typical and of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion and will share them regardless of the underlying facts or lack thereof. so it was, Froome was wearing his ability on his sleeve for the world to see because I guess he's selfish and insecure? based on what, that he gapped Wiggins at the end of the stage?

[oldpotatoe]

Why didn't Wiggo waive Froome ahead to go and try to win the stage today? It didn't look like he needed him in the final 3k - 4k and it looked like Froome wanted to bust away.

How do you know he didn't say so? And Froome wanted to stay with his Captain, or he didn't have the legs to try to win the stage?

Many think they know the inner workings of the team by what they see on the tube and what the talking heads say before the race. Bit more complicated than that, methinks.

[laupsi]

I will add to my conjecture: if you race and if you've ever been in a position that you feel great you know very well you go. now assuming none of us on the forum race for a living and don't know the inner workings of "working for a teammate" on such a level, if Froome was riding for personal recognition why didn't he attack earlier and w/more effort?

the clue for me that CF is a class act, albeit a "green" class act, was when he attacked in the Alps and rode away from BW only to hear in his ear piece that he left BW shattered. to me and what I observed was that CF was embarrassed at what he'd done to his leader. he immediately sat up and turned off the gas. I will go on a limb and say if BW could write to the forum he would dismiss any negative speak about CF and do it honestly.

[oldpotatoe]

I will add to my conjecture: if you race and if you've ever been in a position that you feel great you know very well you go. now assuming none of us on the forum race for a living and don't know the inner workings of "working for a teammate" on such a level, if Froome was riding for personal recognition why didn't he attack earlier and w/more effort?

the clue for me that CF is a class act, albeit a "green" class act, was when he attacked in the Alps and rode away from BW only to hear in his ear piece that he left BW shattered. to me and what I observed was that CF was embarrassed at what he'd done to his leader. he immediately sat up and turned off the gas. I will go on a limb and say if BW could write to the forum he would dismiss any negative speak about CF and do it honestly.

Reality, what a concept. Team sport afterall.

[FlashUNC]

Nonsense! They do not have the tour won until the cross the finish line in Paris. A lot can happen. What if Nibali gained time on the duo moved into second place and later Wigo crashed out... Also, there is a team car right behind to give wigo a wheel or even a bike. It was a bad tactical play on the part of Sky to not let him go that close to the end. They could have a stage win, more time on 3rd place and better secure a Team Sky TDF win.

Climbs are still something of a bit of chaos and there's no guarantee the car will be there. Not to mention the 3k rule doesn't apply on climbs.

How long did Cadel wait for a wheel at the top during the road tack stage?

There was very little to be gained by Froome going on the offensive. So much of a Grand Tour win is managing risk.

[cfox]

Froome waited for Wiggins, what you call theatrics I call racing. Done any?
Robert Millar raced a bit. He took issue with Froome's arm waving stuff. Like I said, it's no big deal, but whatever his intention was it didn't come across that great to a lot of people.

[laupsi]

Robert Millar raced a bit. He took issue with Froome's arm waving stuff. Like I said, it's no big deal, but whatever his intention was it didn't come across that great to a lot of people.

funny, I didn't see RM there either, was he up there?

[cfox]

funny, I didn't see RM there either, was he up there?

were you? because you seem to think your amateur racing gives you some special insight. you're the one who asked the other poster if he'd done any racing...

[laupsi]

were you? because you seem to think your amateur racing gives you some special insight. you're the one who asked the other poster if he'd done any racing...

no sir I was not there, you haven't answered my question though. I simply asked if RM was there when all this "excitement" occurred, and stated I didn't see him which I didn't.

"special" insight, no I don't have that, it goes against my perception of reality and how things work, but I know what it's like to ride away from riders/competitors and I understand too how difficult it would be for me to hold back even if my effort was unconscience and I was negatively affecting a teammate.

why the hostility? I mean CF did what he is paid to do, you may not appreciate his style, where is the damage? all this drama isn't necessary in my opinion.

[cfox]

no sir I was not there, you haven't answered my question though. I simply asked if RM was there when all this "excitement" occurred, and stated I didn't see him which I didn't.

"special" insight, no I don't have that, it goes against my perception of reality and how things work, but I know what's it's like to ride away from riders/competitors and I understand too how difficult it would be for me to hold back even if my effort was unconscience and I was negatively affecting a teammate.

why the hostility? I mean CF did what he is paid to do, you may not appreciate his style, where is the damage? all this drama isn't necessary in my opinion.
No hostility my friend. You made the point of asking someone if they'd raced, implying that it took a racer to understand what Froome was doing. All I did was point out that someone who's ridden a race or two, RM, watched the same thing as you and had a different point of view. I've written twice that I didn't think it was that big a deal. It's been forgotten, as will Froome's second place soon will be. I sincerely hope Froome has a shot to lead on his own at some point. Or he can feel free to conquer the world in the TT tomorrow and make things interesting.

[tsarpepe]

I assume most of us here love cycling, even if we haven't raced (I haven't). If you know the history of the sport and have watched enough cycling, you know that Froome went overboard. It was clear that he wanted to show his bosses and the world watching that he's better than Wiggins but--oh, pity me--I gotta wait for this slow-ass, who just happens to be my team's leader! It really doesn't matter whether this is what Froome was actually thinking; he is a professional and must know what his actions would have looked like from the outside.

[Joachim]

Does someone have a link to a video clip of Froome "waving"? I doubt there is anything we can say for sure since we were not part of that conversation. Many conversations between me and my team captain and/or team leader were often misconstrued during a race. Even by other riders in the peloton observing us at that time. Or maybe it was just because we spoke in a West-Flemish dialect.

[laupsi]

I assume most of us here love cycling, even if we haven't raced (I haven't). If you know the history of the sport and have watched enough cycling, you know that Froome went overboard. It was clear that he wanted to show his bosses and the world watching that he's better than Wiggins but--oh, pity me--I gotta wait for this slow-ass, who just happens to be my team's leader! It really doesn't matter whether this is what Froome was actually thinking; he is a professional and must know what his actions would have looked like from the outside.

or perhaps he really was surprised that BW couldn't keep up as he was about his own fitness. also I think the bosses already know all they need to about their riders w/respect to their ability, especially at this stage of the year and during a grand tour. again I understand you have an opinion but what is clear to you is not at all clear to me.

[norcalbiker]

Froome could have that stage and BW still wins the Tour.

But whatever it is, I like both of them. I would like see them together as team at least for another year or two.

[slidey]

I don't get the hostility towards Froome! The guy is diligently working for Wiggins and he's still 2nd on the GC. Granted the rest of the Sky team is working for Wiggins and inadvertently for Froome as well, but being a domestique on the team and still being 2nd on the GC shows, if nothing else, that he's definitely a serious contender for the TdF. This year, who knows, it's speculation...but next year I'd sure like to see Wiggins try to repay the favour.

[firerescuefin]

I don't get the hostility towards Froome! The guy is diligently working for Wiggins and he's still 2nd on the GC. Granted the rest of the Sky team is working for Wiggins and inadvertently for Froome as well, but being a domestique on the team and still being 2nd on the GC shows, if nothing else, that he's definitely a serious contender for the TdF. This year, who knows, it's speculation...but next year I'd sure like to see Wiggins try to repay the favour.

We criticize our athletes for giving us canned quotes and not speaking their mind...then when they do, we criticize them for what they say. On his worst day he is in second place at the TdF......so close to capturing the monument of his sport...yet many expect him to not be conflicted, not have any emotion at all....bury it and be the good soldier...despite the fact that he has spent well over a decade putting in the time and effort to be in this position now. He's a great teammate. Racing is dynamic...form is dynamic (from stage to stage...and sometimes climb to climb).....cut the guy some slack and give him props for leading Wiggins along for 2 Grand Tours now...that he most likely would have won.

[slidey]

Err...I like Froome, I am cutting him that slack, lots of it :p

.....cut the guy some slack and give him props for leading Wiggins along for 2 Grand Tours now...that he most likely would have won.

[firerescuefin]

Err...I like Froome, I am cutting him that slack, lots of it :p

That wasn't meant for you...that was agreeing with your quoted post

[laupsi]

We criticize our athletes for giving us canned quotes and not speaking their mind...then when they do, we criticize them for what they say. On his worst day he is in second place at the TdF......so close to capturing the monument of his sport...yet many expect him to not be conflicted, not have any emotion at all....bury it and be the good soldier...despite the fact that he has spent well over a decade putting in the time and effort to be in this position now. He's a great teammate. Racing is dynamic...form is dynamic (from stage to stage...and sometimes climb to climb).....cut the guy some slack and give him props for leading Wiggins along for 2 Grand Tours now...that he most likely would have won.

your comments are the exact reason I asked others on the thread if they could relate; CF has accomplished great things this year and quite unselfishly.

[slidey]

I agree...in fact, I think CF has been carrying every single rider in every race this entire year, and since many years in the past :eek:

Wait, oh...you mean Chris Froome, that too, I agree...pardon me, I got "materialistic" ;)

CF has accomplished great things this year and quite unselfishly.