I'm a complicated and diverse creature.

[David Kirk]

I'm not sure what it is but over the past few weeks I find myself wanting to grow a perfectly groomed 3 day beard, play golf, have a beer with friends around a fire on the beach and drive a Caddy that has an iPad built into the dash. Hard to tell why - must be a phase I'm going through. Midlife maybe?

----------------------------------------

In all seriousness that Caddy iPad thing pisses me off. They are selling the idea that your tablet doesn't have any buttons so neither should your car. I think the issue is that I my couch is never going down a 6 lane highway at 70 mph while I scroll and unpinch my way through the stuff on the screen. The idea that to get to my AC controls that I should swipe and scroll until I get to the right spot (all the while having my eyes off the road) and then touch the right spot on the screen to get the AC to come on (eyes still not on the road) just so I can turn on the AC isn't just silly, it's dangerous. How this is better that reaching for the AC button (which is always in the same place on the dash and can nearly be hit without looking at it once you know the car) and blindly hitting it while still keeping one's eyes on the road I have no idea.

It's accepted that texting while at the wheel is dangerous and irresponsible, as are other forms of distracted driving, and now we have GM building in ways right from the factory that are designed to take the drivers eyes from the road and distract us.

Stuff like this doesn't make me feel any safer out there on the road on a bike or in a car. Not that I would ever buy a Caddy anyway but they are officially on the ****list.

dave

[pdmtong]

what about the Fiat with the espresso machine in the center console?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/fiat-in-car-espresso-machine_n_1676958.html?utm_hp_ref=food

would that be ok?

[gemship]

these designers need to perfect that voice command app.

[MattTuck]

I'm not sure what it is but over the past few weeks I find myself wanting to grow a perfectly groomed 3 day beard, play golf, have a beer with friends around a fire on the beach and drive a Caddy that has an iPad built into the dash. Hard to tell why - must be a phase I'm going through. Midlife maybe?

----------------------------------------

In all seriousness that Caddy iPad thing pisses me off. They are selling the idea that your tablet doesn't have any buttons so neither should your car. I think the issue is that I my couch is never going down a 6 lane highway at 70 mph while I scroll and unpinch my way through the stuff on the screen. The idea that to get to my AC controls that I should swipe and scroll until I get to the right spot (all the while having my eyes off the road) and then touch the right spot on the screen to get the AC to come on (eyes still not on the road) just so I can turn on the AC isn't just silly, it's dangerous. How this is better that reaching for the AC button (which is always in the same place on the dash and can nearly be hit without looking at it once you know the car) and blindly hitting it while still keeping one's eyes on the road I have no idea.

It's accepted that texting while at the wheel is dangerous and irresponsible, as are other forms of distracted driving, and now we have GM building in ways right from the factory that are designed to take the drivers eyes from the road and distract us.

Stuff like this doesn't make me feel any safer out there on the road on a bike or in a car. Not that I would ever buy a Caddy anyway but they are officially on the ****list.

dave

Designing a cadillac with a touch screen is just strange. Is that something target consumer is really clamoring for? Most people that I know that drive cadillacs don't even have a smart phone.

[maxdog]

Unfortunately the human capacity for innovation, design and technological advancement, may be greater than it's progress in the rationality department. You wouldn't want to live with most of technology available in Shakespeare's time, but his stories with respect to human nature, are as relevant as ever. The human conundrum.

[David Kirk]

these designers need to perfect that voice command app.

I hear you.

At the same time............I know one can't get the toothpaste back in the tube on this one but..........how about we just drive when we drive? No making lattes or phone calls or reservations. Just drive and take responsibility for the safety of yourself and those around you.

A crazy luddite notion I know but one can dream.


Dave

[soulspinner]

these designers need to perfect that voice command app.

Its already perfected and the military uses it.......

[FlashUNC]

My GTI has a touch screen radio. I'll admit, a lot of features are really spiffy, but VW was also smart enough to give me steering wheels controls that allow me to scroll through stations, and do whatever else, while driving. Keeps my hands on the wheel and eyes on the road.

But as someone who lives with it everyday, I can absolutely say these things are a distraction hazard. The A/C controls I can grab just by feel and know what I'm touching, without ever looking down into the console. That's just not possible with the touchscreen.

I think I fall somewhere in the middle. I'm fine with it for certain limited applications, but not to have everything in the car funneled through one touchscreen device.

[oliver1850]

I still like cars with the horizontal wiper switch on the dash, and the dimmer switch on the floor.

[fuzzalow]

They are selling the idea that your tablet doesn't have any buttons so neither should your car. I think the issue is that I my couch is never going down a 6 lane highway at 70 mph while I scroll and unpinch my way through the stuff on the screen. The idea that to get to my AC controls that I should swipe and scroll until I get to the right spot (all the while having my eyes off the road) and then touch the right spot on the screen to get the AC to come on (eyes still not on the road) just so I can turn on the AC isn't just silly, it's dangerous.

Agree. GM is never short of legal staffers and CYA, so the commercials all show the car parked and not moving while the driver has all the time & attention to scroll, flip, page, pinch and play with himself in the wonderment of the Caddie touch screen.

Electronic features cost very little to add to a car and provide nothing that enhances the experience of driving a car. Touch screens are easy. Driver feedback in steering, suspension, brakes and gearbox is much harder to do right. Umm, forget gearbox, they're all PRNDL.

[Earl Gray]

This is an interesting subject and I tend to have a different, more trusting, take on things.

I make the assumption that the engineers and senior managers for GM are every bit as smart as you and I. They have had these same questions asked from within and have a reasonable level of confidence that these new system do not compromise safety.

[saab2000]

BMW long ago crossed this threshold with idrive, requiring drivers to scroll through menus and sub-menus to do basic things like change the temp or change radio stations.

Seems really, really stupid, but then again I'm not likely to ever buy one. So I'm not the target customer.

Gadgetry just for the sake of gadgetry is totally lost on me.

[Chance]

Designing a cadillac with a touch screen is just strange. Is that something target consumer is really clamoring for? Most people that I know that drive cadillacs don't even have a smart phone.

That’s the old Cadillac, not the new. They are reinventing themselves.:rolleyes:


Ford is no better with all the distraction crap too. This madness will only stop when lawyers sue after people get hurt due to distracted drivers. And only if they can show companies knew it was going to happen to some of us. And of that there is little doubt. They know some people are getting hurt. They just don't care enough figuring it's the price we have to pay for modern life; or their higher profits.

Pinto fires was entirely their fault because we got nothing out of it. Now most of us go along with distractions that cause more harm because it serves our purpose. Some of us anyway.

rant over.....:crap:

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Hands on the wheel (or shifter), and eyes on the road. Something most people rarely do, these days. I saw something the other day that blew even my seasoned mind. A driver was eating, I mean eating a plate of food with a knife and fork, while driving in traffic.

Cadillacs should be a block long and have fins!!!!

[victoryfactory]

Yup;
One of the things that appealed to me about my current car (Subaru Forester)
Was that it had old school controls. Real knobs for the radio, Starts with a key.
Simple climate controls.

I rented a Ford escape recently and the damn thing kept talking to me! Couldn't
get it (her) to shut up!

VF

[eddief]

http://gigaom.com/2012/07/09/bmw-taps-nuance-for-in-car-speech-recognition/

If they can do it in the car, then can I get rid of my TV remote too? Hope so.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NUAN

[Earl Gray]

.. A driver was eating, I mean eating a plate of food with a knife and fork, while driving in traffic.



Motorcycle with a passenger, driver using both hands to text on the interstate @ 70+ MPH.

If we are talking somehting other than distracted driving, I have seen a guy sitting on the handlebars of a motorcycle doing a wheelie on the interstate. He did seem to be given full attention to the task at hand.

[dustyrider]

I wonder if they'll be law enforcement for people texting on their in dash touch screens. Certainly you sync your phone to the dash board, if not now soon!

I believe there's a group out there that wants the government to make back up cameras standard equipment in cars. If they're successful you're not going to get rid of the screen, and if the screen is there you're going to see more cars like the new Cadillac. Just imagine how fuel efficient a modern car could be if it didn't have all the "modern" gadgetry, that isn't controlling fuel consumption.

I also have a hard time believing that any car manufacturer should be left to their own devices when it comes to consumer, and pedestrian, safety, and I'm pretty sure there is plenty of evidence to suggest quite the contrary.

[Chance]

I also have a hard time believing that any car manufacturer should be left to their own devices when it comes to consumer, and pedestrian, safety, and I'm pretty sure there is plenty of evidence to suggest quite the contrary.

We need to follow the money. They will deny any liability just like tobacco industry executives did. Accident data is piling up but they have too much to lose so they will throw money at attorneys to defend their position. And to lobbyist. Touch screen control and display systems can be much cheaper to design and manufacture, and they can also charge more for it in the name of it being an upgrade. Adds up to additional vehicle margins, or profits. Voice will help but it's still a distraction.

The more we go in this direction the more some like me will want to drive a tank. Screw gas consumption if it means staying safe.

[rugbysecondrow]

Yup;
One of the things that appealed to me about my current car (Subaru Forester)
Was that it had old school controls. Real knobs for the radio, Starts with a key.
Simple climate controls.

I rented a Ford escape recently and the damn thing kept talking to me! Couldn't
get it (her) to shut up!

VF

I agree. I have been driven a few cars recently that have the touch screen controls and I can't figure them out. How the hell do I turn the heat up without staring at the screen for 20 minutes?

I am buying a new Subaru shortly and am opting for a more basic model because I do not want the touchscreen. I want a knob, dial and something that won't talk to me.

[mosca]

Dave, I'm sure you'll feel differently when they introduce that autocross app.;)

[roguedog]

Where's the Like button? Have been thinking the same exact thing. What a PITA it'd be just to do simple functions like AC or if I want the air at my feet, etc.

But then I am also not the target market. My cars are all a decade or two old. I think people think they've gone into a time warp when they get into one of my vehicles. :rolleyes: Well.. I do have electronic windows.

Which reminds me.. remember when the sign to talk to each other in cars was making the roll down the window sign (rolling hand)? It makes me chuckle that some people still do it even though their windows are now electric. And then it makes me feel old when I think a lot younger folks don't even know wth you're doing :)

Am I retrogrouch...

[David Kirk]

This is an interesting subject and I tend to have a different, more trusting, take on things.

I make the assumption that the engineers and senior managers for GM are every bit as smart as you and I. They have had these same questions asked from within and have a reasonable level of confidence that these new system do not compromise safety.

I agree - GM has some of the best engineers in the biz.........unfortunately they are seldom the ones that dictate what makes it into the car offered for sale. Marketing runs the show and pulls the strings.

Dave

[Z3c]

Wow, you guys are making me feel bad, just brought one of those Caddy's home yesterday.. You should drive one, I think you'll be impressed.

Not really; I drive a 3 pedal WRX..

[dustyrider]

Where's the Like button? Have been thinking the same exact thing. What a PITA it'd be just to do simple functions like AC or if I want the air at my feet, etc.

But then I am also not the target market. My cars are all a decade or two old. I think people think they've gone into a time warp when they get into one of my vehicles. :rolleyes: Well.. I do have electronic windows.

Which reminds me.. remember when the sign to talk to each other in cars was making the roll down the window sign (rolling hand)? It makes me chuckle that some people still do it even though their windows are now electric. And then it makes me feel old when I think a lot younger folks don't even know wth you're doing :)

Am I retrogrouch...

I had a great old car with manual windows. Somehow the passenger side window's crank got lost, and since I never really sat over there it didn't bother me. Whenever I had a passenger, that got hot, I used to just pop off the driver's side window crank and hand it to them, it was good for a laugh.

Until one day a friend of mine came out of a store with a set of cheap vise grips, those vice grips came in handy one day when the throttle cable stuck. And to think, I was smart enough to put it in neutral, and stop the engine before I killed anyone!
That car was great, I could also pull the key out of the ignition at any time, and occasionally my keys would just fall out of the ignition, I'll never forget a recent acquaintance's face when it happened one day, and I just picked them up and tossed them in the cup holder, all the while we're just cruising down the street.
Of course now some cars don't even have a key, my aunt was telling me just the other day that she left the house without the gadget that acts as a key, because her husband had dropped the car off and had the gadget in his pocket while she started the car and left. Suddenly the car started talking to her, telling her that she needed to go back, and get it, or the car would just shut itself down! Wonder what it's like to be driving along and the car's steering wheel lock comes on! I'm sure the manufacturer's thought of that before right?

[Ti Designs]

how about we just drive when we drive? No making lattes or phone calls or reservations. Just drive and take responsibility for the safety of yourself and those around you.

Dave,

Did you know that insurance companies have hit men and death squads which they send after anyone making statements like this???


And then there's the lasting value of a car. A classic is defined as something which retains it's value over time. Show me a 5 year old computer that's done that. Show me a computer interface that hasn't been replaced by something newer in 9 months. All of this stuff is going to be seen as junk from 2012. In a few years most of this stuff will be no better than an 8-track tape player.

[rugbysecondrow]

Dave,

Did you know that insurance companies have hit men and death squads which they send after anyone making statements like this???


And then there's the lasting value of a car. A classic is defined as something which retains it's value over time. Show me a 5 year old computer that's done that. Show me a computer interface that hasn't been replaced by something newer in 9 months. All of this stuff is going to be seen as junk from 2012. In a few years most of this stuff will be no better than an 8-track tape player.

Agreed. I have seen them putting touchpads on refridgerators...just something which WILL brake or be defunct.

[cmg]

"BMW long ago crossed this threshold with idrive, requiring drivers to scroll through menus and sub-menus" There's the target audience. Cadillac wants to re-imagine itself as the american BMW along with the high dollar price tag. Why aren't all the controls intergrated into the steering wheel? radio/gps/phone/internet access/AC/nuclear device/ pop-machine guns........starbucks coffee machine. useful stuff. get rid of the winshield instead use a TV screen with mutiple cameras for the 3d effect. when you crash it will be in ultimate comfort.

[MattTuck]

Dave,

Did you know that insurance companies have hit men and death squads which they send after anyone making statements like this???




The insurance companies would like you to take responsibility for your driving. It is the hitmen from the trial lawyers and ambulance chasers that Dave should be worried about.

[zandrrr]

Hands on the wheel (or shifter), and eyes on the road. Something most people rarely do, these days. I saw something the other day that blew even my seasoned mind. A driver was eating, I mean eating a plate of food with a knife and fork, while driving in traffic.

Wow, that's a new one. I have seen people reading. Once it was someone reading a novel, and the other time it was a full newspaper - the dude was driving down the highway with it unfolded across half the cab of the truck. Needless to say I got out of the way of both of those people as quickly as possible. :help:

[tannhauser]

This is only a case of tacit governmental approval of American's desire to do whatever they want at the expense and safety of those lower on the food chain.

There used to be an organization called the NHTSA that regulated this sort of thing. Wonder where they went to?

Cocooning oneself into one's own virtual reality.

A 350 lb. woman just came to my door accidentally. I wonder how far she walks per day and if all the e-devices and tvs she owns contributes to her size.

A woman in a silent electric beemer screamed by me yesterday in a quiet residential neighborhood. It might have been me who screamed actually. That thing was extremely quiet.

[jlwdm]

BMW long ago crossed this threshold with idrive, requiring drivers to scroll through menus and sub-menus to do basic things like change the temp or change radio stations.

Seems really, really stupid, but then again I'm not likely to ever buy one. So I'm not the target customer.

Gadgetry just for the sake of gadgetry is totally lost on me.

I know my BMW has newer idrive - but I love it. I can change temperature without using it and I can change radio stations by voice or from the steering wheel.

Current idrive is really intuitive and easy to use.

Jeff

[martinrjensen]

Get the car, get the beard, just don't drink Michelob lite and call yourself complicated. (I hate that ad, don't know why but I find it annoying)I'm not sure what it is but over the past few weeks I find myself wanting to grow a perfectly groomed 3 day beard, play golf, have a beer with friends around a fire on the beach and drive a Caddy that has an iPad built into the dash. Hard to tell why - must be a phase I'm going through. Midlife maybe?

----------------------------------------

In all seriousness that Caddy iPad thing pisses me off. They are selling the idea that your tablet doesn't have any buttons so neither should your car. I think the issue is that I my couch is never going down a 6 lane highway at 70 mph while I scroll and unpinch my way through the stuff on the screen. The idea that to get to my AC controls that I should swipe and scroll until I get to the right spot (all the while having my eyes off the road) and then touch the right spot on the screen to get the AC to come on (eyes still not on the road) just so I can turn on the AC isn't just silly, it's dangerous. How this is better that reaching for the AC button (which is always in the same place on the dash and can nearly be hit without looking at it once you know the car) and blindly hitting it while still keeping one's eyes on the road I have no idea.

It's accepted that texting while at the wheel is dangerous and irresponsible, as are other forms of distracted driving, and now we have GM building in ways right from the factory that are designed to take the drivers eyes from the road and distract us.

Stuff like this doesn't make me feel any safer out there on the road on a bike or in a car. Not that I would ever buy a Caddy anyway but they are officially on the ****list.

dave

[Chief]

Its the old argument: analog vs digital. Just because you can go digital, doesn't make it better. I can only imagine what it would cost to replace the iPad when it goes belly up from the car setting in the hot sun, let alone not being able to control any function until it is replaced.

[djg21]

BMW long ago crossed this threshold with idrive, requiring drivers to scroll through menus and sub-menus to do basic things like change the temp or change radio stations.

Seems really, really stupid, but then again I'm not likely to ever buy one. So I'm not the target customer.

Gadgetry just for the sake of gadgetry is totally lost on me.

Thankfully, iDrive is optional. All it does, according to my BMW SA, is complicate things unnecessarily.

[Steve in SLO]

It is interesting how some entry level car commercials feature telegenic 20-somethings who's only comment about their new car is how cool its e-gadgets are...it's whole different world.

[PoppaWheelie]

Ugh. I love my bimmer. No gps, no touch screen...nothing but a few knobs and levers. I have no desire to enter into that world, regardless of how hard the marketing people try...although I do accept a cup holder, reluctantly.

[victoryfactory]

High end cars like BMW and Mercedes are always getting
not recommended ratings from Consumer Reports* mostly
due to bad reliability. I'm guessing that's the over complex
electronics.

*grain of salt

VF

[fuzzalow]

A woman in a silent electric beemer screamed by me yesterday in a quiet residential neighborhood.

I love my bimmer.

Beemer = motorcycle

Bimmer = car

This is more a PSA than a dig, 'cos owning one doesn't mean that said owner may know or care about the difference. How many Porsche owners say the name of their car like the structure that's part of a house.

[Cinci Jim]

A hot new need for car makers is game designers, especially mobile game designers. The auto makers are targeting the same sort of UI experience of playing a game on your iPhone. I'm going to 3 universities this fall targeting exactly that sort of hire.

Voice command systems on cars has got a lot better - I'm now on my 3rd car thir it and it is much much better. Also you can do much more from the controls on the steering wheel.

Dave, I hate to say it but turning on & off the AC is so old school. Now you set it to auto and have temp up & down buttons on the steering wheel.

The new Prius c has a touch tracer display. it is close to the windshield and graphically displays the steering wheel button you are puching so you don't even need to look "all the way" down to the steering wheel.

[Bob Ross]

how about we just drive when we drive? No making lattes or phone calls or reservations. Just drive and take responsibility for the safety of yourself and those around you.

A crazy luddite notion I know but one can dream.


I love you, man.

[tch]

Dave, I hate to say it but turning on & off the AC is so old school. Now you set it to auto and have temp up & down buttons on the steering wheel.
.

Yeah, don't I know it....and HATE it. Auto-heat/cool p*sses me off: I get in the car and the fricken fan starts up like a tornado, overwhelming all other sensory input. I want to control stuff -- you know, decide how much fan or heat or cool I want in order to get to the environment I want, not have some machine just do the fastest machine-like reaction.

I'm definitely with you, Dave.

[jlwdm]

Thankfully, iDrive is optional. All it does, according to my BMW SA, is complicate things unnecessarily.

Once you use idrive it is hard to imagine having a car without it.

Jeff

[Ralph]

My wife drives one of those fancy Ford products, My Ford Touch, Sync My Ride .Com, Nav with weather and route avoidance from Sirius connected to all the other features. Phone, IPOD hook ups. Pandora ready, wireless hook ups, USB ports, all that stuff I don't know how to use.

In theory you can control everything with voice....even giving directions to NAV. In real life....I find it simpler to still do it manually.

One good thing I believe......The whole dash and all controls are on a SD card that plugs into a slot in arm rest. Anything goes wrong, need an update on dash controls, etc.....just have dealership mail out new memory card to you. It comes in mail, you plug it in and down load and install. Already got one update this way. No trip to dealership. Like that. All Ford or Lincoln has to do is make SD memory cards available as time goes on and vehicle ages....or changes owners.

[David Kirk]

Cool - thanks for chiming in Jim.

Would you say that these other ways of controlling stuff in the car (radio, heat/AC....etc) make the car in any way better or safer? In other words is there value added to the user beyond the fact that it's cool?

Dave



A hot new need for car makers is game designers, especially mobile game designers. The auto makers are targeting the same sort of UI experience of playing a game on your iPhone. I'm going to 3 universities this fall targeting exactly that sort of hire.

Voice command systems on cars has got a lot better - I'm now on my 3rd car thir it and it is much much better. Also you can do much more from the controls on the steering wheel.

Dave, I hate to say it but turning on & off the AC is so old school. Now you set it to auto and have temp up & down buttons on the steering wheel.

The new Prius c has a touch tracer display. it is close to the windshield and graphically displays the steering wheel button you are puching so you don't even need to look "all the way" down to the steering wheel.

[Steve in SLO]

Cool - thanks for chiming in Jim.

Would you say that these other ways of controlling stuff in the car (radio, heat/AC....etc) make the car in any way better or safer? In other words is there value added to the user beyond the fact that it's cool?

Dave
I am going to bet the answer is the same as years ago when curmudgeons like us were asking the same questions about cruise control and intermittent wipers (and maybe even ABS)

[Chance]

I am going to bet the answer is the same as years ago when curmudgeons like us were asking the same questions about cruise control and intermittent wipers (and maybe even ABS)

Safe bet that much of this digital enhancements are most acceptable based on driver age.

Main difference to features you mentioned is that they weren’t designed to distract drivers by adding tasks that go beyond driving. So while we could argue the benefits of controlling AC controls with a touch screen or voice command (something that would have to be done anyway), the real issue for me is how much more stuff are we going to throw at drivers to handle simultaneously. And while we may be able to do 10 things at once, can we done any of them as well as if we were doing only one? Data suggests no. That’s why people are getting injured or killed unnecessarily.

[David Kirk]

I have to say I disagree with you there. I like ABS, cruise, and int wipers.......as well as traction control, stability control. climate control and all that. I do not want everyday cars to return the the bad ol days of the Dodge dart. And while I like all this modern stuff and the safety and convenience that it brings I'm not a fan of anything that diverts the drivers attention from the primary task at hand - driving the car safely so that you can get to your destination without putting yourself or others at an undue risk.

My beef with the idash stuff is that it seems to in no way make driving the car any safer or more efficient. It feels like the only reason we are going this way is because it's cool and might sell a few more cars and if it makes the car less safe in the process the car makers can always say that they recommend that you pull over to a safe spot and stop the car before un-pinching stuff on the idash. Just because we can make something a certain way doesn't mean we should.

I love modern technology and the improvements it can bring to life. I love the Mac I'm typing on right now and lust after an iPad. I love fuel injection and electronic ignition and traction control in a car - anything that makes the journey safer, more efficient, or more enjoyable as long as it doesn't put the user or those around them at more risk.

In a perfect world makers would have the courage to only offer things that make the car better, safer and more efficient while NOT making them less safe. But the public wants what it wants and so many of us think we are personally endowed with some greater skill and can text, and call and scroll while driving without any added risk. It's the other guy that can't handle it - I'm above average!

But the numbers don't, and never will, bear this out.

Rant over.

Dave



I am going to bet the answer is the same as years ago when curmudgeons like us were asking the same questions about cruise control and intermittent wipers (and maybe even ABS)

[DHallerman]

Yeah, don't I know it....and HATE it. Auto-heat/cool p*sses me off: I get in the car and the fricken fan starts up like a tornado, overwhelming all other sensory input. I want to control stuff -- you know, decide how much fan or heat or cool I want in order to get to the environment I want, not have some machine just do the fastest machine-like reaction.

Interesting point.

When I got my VW GTI a couple of years ago, I was initially disappointed that heat/cool is all manual. No climate control like a thermostat like in the Acura TSX that I traded in for the GTI.

However, clear and logical knobs and switches make the GTI's cool/heat very easy to use, without that extra unwanted fan stuff, for example, that TCH describes.

Dave, who was tempted to simply drive a few days here when the temps were kissing three digits since his home has only stone walls and ceiling fans but no AC but didn't

[Chance]

In my Honda the AC fan can be left on "auto" to ramp up and down based on load, or can be manually controlled at whatever speed the driver wants. Normally leave it on "auto" but have taken it off to quiet cabin on a few occassions.

Previous car years ago had no manual override. That was a pain sometimes.

[Steve in SLO]

I am going to bet the answer is the same as years ago when curmudgeons like us were asking the same questions about cruise control and intermittent wipers (and maybe even ABS)

Point of clarification for Dave: I wasn't saying I don't like these things, just that years ago the same arguments were no doubt occurring about 'new' technologies.
The early techs insulated the driver from complete control of their car (sometimes for the better). On the surface, the new e-gadgets seem more to distract, but in some cases, such as auto climate control (which may lead to less fiddling with knobs/levers), may also be for the better.

[Fixed]

http://www.carforum.net/
Cheers

[pjm]

I love driving my 3 series BMW, but I despise it's auto climate contol system. I'm driving down the road, it's about 55 degrees outside. The sun is beating on me and I'm getting a little warm, so I just let a little outside air in through the vents.....WRONG! Can't do it. To cool off I have to either roll down a window or two or set the desired temperature on the the automatic system which turns on the AC to reach the desired temperature. How ridiculous is this? Turning on the AC when its 55 degrees out! Foolishness.
BMWs in Europe are available with simple 3 dial systems (and cloth seats, thats another rant) but of course, not here.

[David Kirk]

I hear you, understand, and agree.

I don't see an issue with the 'features' that a car has - my issue solely concerns how those features are controlled and how much attention it takes for the driver to use them.

My Mini has climate control and I like it very much. I push the button (that I can find with muscle memory and even in the dark) to turn it on and I'm all set. If I had to scroll and swipe a screen to get this to happen I would never have considered buying the car.

Speaking of cars - I have a two day Solo race this weekend in my lil' orange car. Wish me luck!

Dave




Point of clarification for Dave: I wasn't saying I don't like these things, just that years ago the same arguments were no doubt occurring about 'new' technologies.
The early techs insulated the driver from complete control of their car (sometimes for the better). On the surface, the new e-gadgets seem more to distract, but in some cases, such as auto climate control (which may lead to less fiddling with knobs/levers), may also be for the better.

[Steve in SLO]

Speaking of cars - I have a two day Solo race this weekend in my lil' orange car. Wish me luck!

Solo I or II?
Either way, have fun, and give those Corvette and Porsche drivers what for...I mean, how could something like this keep up with you?

[zap]

Good luck but what's a Solo race.

[David Kirk]

Good luck but what's a Solo race.

'Solo' is also known as 'autocross'. Simply put it's a short time trial (about 60 seconds) on a course defined with traffic cones.

Way too much fun.

Dave

[zap]

ahh, got it. Wasn't sure if it was a longer distance tt/rally of some sort.

You have a great car for that. Have to imagine those old 914 would be pretty good as well. Looking through various Porsche classifieds I see a few 914's in "race" trim and one rare 914-6.

[Climb01742]

years ago, my 914 was an absolutely blast to drive. it cornered better than any other car i've driven. but i had it when giant SUVs were just gaining mass popularity and it was spooky having your eye level at SUV bumper level. freaked me out.;)

[Rueda Tropical]

Ah... for the days when Mercedes engineers refused to put cup holders in cars.

[tannhauser]

Beemer = motorcycle

Bimmer = car



Maybe in your neck of the woods. I've ridden a moto for 28 yrs. and have never heard the delineation.

We say "beemer" for the car, but thanks for telling me that isn't right.

[tannhauser]

All those screens on the dash and windshield are stupid.

If you take them away people will continue to text with their phone at waist level.

One way or another, the cyclist hugging the stripe stands a much higher chance of getting tagged.

[SteveFrench]

My truck doesn't even have a clock. I love it.

[maxdog]

Maybe in your neck of the woods. I've ridden a moto for 28 yrs. and have never heard the delineation.

We say "beemer" for the car, but thanks for telling me that isn't right.

Fuzz is absolutely correct, but they are pronounced the same way, so if you never saw it written, you might not know.

[tannhauser]

Fuzz is absolutely correct, but they are pronounced the same way, so if you never saw it written, you might not know.

Good Lord again.

If the world wants to pronounce "bimmer" as "beamer", then what can I say?

BTW I pronounce Porsche "porscha" so perhaps I'm in the minority.

Can we talk about sumthin else?

[bikingshearer]

years ago, my 914 was an absolutely blast to drive. it cornered better than any other car i've driven. but i had it when giant SUVs were just gaining mass popularity and it was spooky having your eye level at SUV bumper level. freaked me out.;)

I had a similar feeling back in the mid-70s when my GF at the time had a 1965 A-H Sprite (not a bug-eye, but an MG Midget clone). I swear I could have driven that thing under a truck trailer, but I sure started to understand how a bug felt on a crowded sidewalk.

[fuzzalow]

Maybe in your neck of the woods. I've ridden a moto for 28 yrs. and have never heard the delineation.

We say "beemer" for the car, but thanks for telling me that isn't right.

Whoa, I said in my post that the clarification was not a dig at you. Too bad that you seem to have taken it this way regardless. There is both an internet forum and a magazine about BMW cars with "bimmer" in the appellation so use of the term is not a secret.

If it will make you feel better, I will pronounce Nietzsche as "neesh" at my next gathering of pseudo-intellectuals in my neck of the woods. Peace.

[gearguywb]

these designers need to perfect that voice command app.

My parents perfected this years ago. "Son, go change the channel...."

[palincss]

Would you say that these other ways of controlling stuff in the car (radio, heat/AC....etc) make the car in any way better or safer? In other words is there value added to the user beyond the fact that it's cool?


They put in that screen for navigation systems and it must have seemed like a terrible waste not to use it for everything else...

[SteveFrench]

If people say beemer/bimmer because it's easier than saying BMW, why do we bother typing out beemer/bimmer at all? Loved my E30 BTW...

[Fixed]

Have a beer .. And enjoy the ride
Cheers :)

[tannhauser]

.

If it will make you feel better, I will pronounce Nietzsche as "neesh" at my next gathering of pseudo-intellectuals in my neck of the woods. Peace.

Neesh driving Porches -- there's an image.

[Ti Designs]

years ago, my 914 was an absolutely blast to drive. it cornered better than any other car i've driven. but i had it when giant SUVs were just gaining mass popularity and it was spooky having your eye level at SUV bumper level. freaked me out.;)

The theory being you're safe if you're driving the biggest thing on the road. And if you're safe, why waste so much time on driving when you can be doing other things? Be then the guy next door goes and buys something bigger, and the race is on. Pretty soon people are driving full size troop transports to pick up milk and eggs from the supermarket (and parking in 6 compact car spots). Then the price of gas goes up and everybody is driving a large car with half a ton of battery, performance is a thing of the past, but at least there's a touch screen...

[choke]

Fuzz is absolutely correct, but they are pronounced the same way, so if you never saw it written, you might not know. Uh....actually they aren't. BMW cars are called Bimmers. Say BIM-mer.
BMW motorcycles are called one thing but it is spelled two ways. Beemers or Beamers, you just say BEAM-er.

http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/reference/bimmer-beemer.aspx

[Steve in SLO]

I had a 2002 for 12 years way back when, then a Dinan M6 for a while. I never called them anything except B-M-Ws.
Perhaps being raised in a house where my parents called #2 "BiM" (short for Bowel Movement) had something to do with it. To this day, 'Bimmer' doesn't sound right to me.
Perhaps that is why I drive Porsches now.

[tannhauser]

Uh....actually they aren't.

http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/reference/bimmer-beemer.aspx

Okay then. I'm glad I'm vindicated. Actually I don't care what people think regarding how I pronounce words.

But someone tell me exactly why a BMW is the ultimate driving machine...

[Kirk007]

Stay thirsty my friend




I'm not sure what it is but over the past few weeks I find myself wanting to grow a perfectly groomed 3 day beard, play golf, have a beer with friends around a fire on the beach and drive a Caddy that has an iPad built into the dash. Hard to tell why - must be a phase I'm going through. Midlife maybe?




dave

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Okay then. I'm glad I'm vindicated. Actually I don't care what people think regarding how I pronounce words.

But someone tell me exactly why a BMW is the ultimate driving machine...

Because it says so, in their commercials.

[Germany_chris]

Because it says so, in their commercials.

If an E30 M3 is not the ultimate driving machine it has to be real close to the top..