How much seatpost on level top tube frame?

[Joachim]

So I am the lucky owner of Akelman's level top tube, blue tint, Ottrott. My first level top tube frame in about 10 years. How much seatpost do you have showing? Yes, its superficial and shallow, but I keep reminding me that the frames in the 90's had much less seatpost showing that these days (190mm Campy seatposts anyone?).

[tannhauser]

Way too little on my level tt bike. It's like I'm 14 again.

[don'TreadOnMe]

= to headtube length is a nice place to start.

[charliedid]

As much as you "need"

[aaronf]

I agree with don'Tread on this.
Seatpost exposed roughly equal to head tube length.
Seems to look the best aesthetically as the frame size goes up or down.
But of course this is a starting point for aesthetics. I would not compromise my saddle height for looks alone.

[christian]

Fistful. Maybe fist and two fingers.

[vqdriver]

= to headtube length is a nice place to start.

that sounds like a good starting point. i recall when a "fistfull" of post was normal. but that was on more traditional steel frames. that little on a modern frame may look odd. regardless, it's not something we get to choose. your saddle height and choice of saddle will dictate how much post is showing......

[eddief]

and it has a sloping top tube...He wanted to make sure there was enough post showing so it could go into a workstand clamp without having to adjust the seatpost height. he was not concerned so much about aesthetics as all around practicality. that amount also happens to look good on that bike = about 10 cm.

[pdmtong]

So I am the lucky owner of Akelman's level top tube, blue tint, Ottrott. My first level top tube frame in about 10 years. How much seatpost do you have showing? Yes, its superficial and shallow, but I keep reminding me that the frames in the 90's had much less seatpost showing that these days (190mm Campy seatposts anyone?).

shallow or not, what does it matter? you cant do anything about it short of selling the frame...

[Joachim]

shallow or not, what does it matter? you cant do anything about it short of selling the frame...

For interest sake. But thanks for answering.

[Joachim]

Fistful. Maybe fist and two fingers.

Thats how I remember it. Seems around there about.

[pdmtong]

For interest sake. But thanks for answering.

in that case, my level TT bike awhile ago had about a HT worth of post showing. so I think thats a general aesthetic observation...I think a "fist" nowadys would be too low.

[gospastic]

My cross bike has a mostly level top tube and now the logo on my seatpost is not fully exposed. So sad.

[AngryScientist]

'bout this much:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EUoTxdV_jVg/T_iy2yiCM3I/AAAAAAAAAg8/I6tQ_xQjHic/s640/IMG_0809.JPG

[zmudshark]

'bout this much:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EUoTxdV_jVg/T_iy2yiCM3I/AAAAAAAAAg8/I6tQ_xQjHic/s640/IMG_0809.JPG

I disagree, this much is perfect:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RboPjHc3Olc/Sa2k9WNzYLI/AAAAAAAAAV0/cthyAnwIcNs/s912/P3033068.JPG

[Chance]

No less than 4 inches and no more than 6 inches. Prefer at the low end between 4 and 5.

[wallymann]

... I keep reminding me that the frames in the 90's had much less seatpost showing that these days...

what you're describing is more mid-80s and before.

starting around the mid 80s the "modern position" started to appear with higher saddles, longer reaches and as a result slightly smaller frames showing more seatpost and longer stems.

by the 90s that was well underway and saw the advent of the compact frames starting with giant ridden by once.

[thwart]

I use a very complicated formula 'specially designed for top tube bikes...

Measure from the center of the bottom bracket along seat tube for 75 cm. Then subtract exactly the height of the saddle + the length of the seat tube. Now you've got the correct number for seat post length.

You're welcome. ;)

[fuzzalow]

I have always been queer for DeRosa's. Beautiful bike.

This much seatpost looks about right. During the time period that C-Record post was made, that was considered a lot of post showing - that much there is almost right on the limit line marking of the post.

For a modern bike as mentioned in the OP, jack the post and drop the bar as much as can be capably ridden.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RboPjHc3Olc/Sa2k9WNzYLI/AAAAAAAAAV0/cthyAnwIcNs/s912/P3033068.JPGhttps://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RboPjHc3Olc/Sa2k9WNzYLI/AAAAAAAAAV0/cthyAnwIcNs/s912/P3033068.JPG

[maxdog]

As much as you "need"

^The obvious logical answer, in fact I'm not sure what else you would do unless you purposely wanted to be uncomfortable.
Having said that, yeah, 25 yrs ago I was fitted for a 56, and now i'm fitted for a 54/55 (ideally a 54.5) with a 12cm stem and as much seat post as i need, which brings my saddle height on a standard frame, to about 75.5/76 cm

[Peter P.]

The amount of seatpost visible is mostly an aesthetic issue, but important nonetheless.

I believe the first place I saw the "seatpost = the headtube length" rule was in a book by Greg LeMond.

It's a good ballpark check to determine whether you have the right frame size.
And it just looks right.

[maxdog]

To add to my previous comment, I like the aesthetics of a long post and stem, as well as the greater rigidity/weight ratio to tubing type you get with a smaller frame and the greater weight distribution over the front wheel.

[pdmtong]

FWIW sacha white designed my frame -the distance from the top of the TT to the rail clamp (nitto626 and arione) is 13cm

[Joachim]

My saddle is a Prologo Scratch Pro which is about 4cm from saddle rails to the top. I estimated to have about 11-12cm post from the top of the seat clamp to saddle rails. Since the Ottrott has a head tube extension I have to run a -17 degree stem with no spacers to get 7.5-8cm drop, which should look fine with a level top tube frame.

[pdmtong]

My saddle is a Prologo Scratch Pro which is about 4cm from saddle rails to the top. I estimated to have about 11-12cm post from the top of the seat clamp to saddle rails. Since the Ottrott has a head tube extension I have to run a -17 degree stem with no spacers to get 7.5-8cm drop, which should look fine with a level top tube frame.

based on that description, I think it will look more than fine...it will look pro.

[cnighbor1]

How much seatpost on level top tube frame?
High enough to reach your butt is typical standard
Charles

[Joachim]

How much seatpost on level top tube frame?
High enough to reach your butt is typical standard
Charles

Does that include the saddle? :). Maybe I should post it in the gallery with 1cm seatpost showing and see what comments I get. I'm pretty sure most will not be as accomodating.

[martinrjensen]

While the old classic "a fistfull of seatpost" is true, you have to set your seatpost to the proper height and that means the proper height for you and if you don't like it, sell the bike and buy one that fits. There are lattitudes in adjustment regarding bike fit, and you can usually make one or two sizes off your "correct" size fit by varying components but these are not really asthetic decisions.
You have to start with you fitting. I bought a 60cm frame (was told it was a 59cm) and I have less seatpost showing than I would like for asthetic purposes (I have just about a fistfull of post sticking out) but it is what it is. It's set the way I needed and I have to live with it. This is not really an option. You options are to buy the correct frame size first, then color, then component brand, not a lot more.
Basically I would say that a fist full or a little more "looks about right on that type of bike.As much as you "need"

[maxdog]

Does that include the saddle? :). Maybe I should post it in the gallery with 1cm seatpost showing and see what comments I get. I'm pretty sure most will not be as accomodating.

I hope your kidding. If I recall correctly, Akelman rides a 56. Maybe you do need my 54 Meivici.

[Kontact]

It's a proportion thing, I think:

Lemond's book has a chapter on selecting and fitting a bike. Based on fairly standard geometry, you select a frame whose C-T is 66.7% of your inseam, and the seat height is 88.3% of inseam. So a tall frame should have more inches of seat post showing than a small frame, but with the same proportions.

So a 50cm frame should have about 11cm of post showing under a 5cm tall saddle, and a 60cm frame should have about 14cm of post showing.


I don't think any of that is important, but those are the classic proportions that look most natural on level TT bikes.

[Chance]

I don't think any of that is important, but those are the classic proportions that look most natural on level TT bikes.

Agree it's mostly about what looks right and has little to do with being right. A rider with long legs and short torso, if forced to buy a stock model, would likely end up with a small frame with lots of seat post showing.

[soulspinner]

and it has a sloping top tube...He wanted to make sure there was enough post showing so it could go into a workstand clamp without having to adjust the seatpost height. he was not concerned so much about aesthetics as all around practicality. that amount also happens to look good on that bike = about 10 cm.

This

[Joachim]

I hope your kidding. If I recall correctly, Akelman rides a 56. Maybe you do need my 54 Meivici.
Yes, kidding :). There are not that many level top tube ottrott's out there, especially in this great condition so I am just going to build it once all the silver components are in and give it a go. Besides I might still 'need' the Meivici.

[Kontact]

Agree it's mostly about what looks right and has little to do with being right. A rider with long legs and short torso, if forced to buy a stock model, would likely end up with a small frame with lots of seat post showing.

That situation is still unlikely to be right, because the stack is going to be too low. That anatomy is one of the reasons for sloping top tubes.

[bluesea]

^ Also for the long torso/short inseam type---don't ask me how I know.

[corky]

That situation is still unlikely to be right, because the stack is going to be too low. That anatomy is one of the reasons for sloping top tubes.

peoples anatomy has not changed, level top tubes were always the norm until Giant realized they could make 3 sizes of frame and cut down on prodcution costs and therefore increase profits. + mtbs where dropped top tubes meant less bollock interfaces ocurring.... people started wanting mtb lookalikes, marketing men xould aslo say slopers made for stiffer frames but neglected to say that the saddle would be perched o. a longer lever....

just my rambling thoughts

[clweed]

I use a very complicated formula 'specially designed for top tube bikes...

Measure from the center of the bottom bracket along seat tube for 75 cm. Then subtract exactly the height of the saddle + the length of the seat tube. Now you've got the correct number for seat post length.

You're welcome. ;)

You're close, but the correct number from the BB is 74.5 cm:)

[rain dogs]

Ok, so here is a question I've always had with amount of seatpost showing especially when you consider the "same as the headtube"

Is that to the end of the post tube or to the rails/centre of clamp?

[Chance]

That situation is still unlikely to be right, because the stack is going to be too low. That anatomy is one of the reasons for sloping top tubes.

What’s wrong, other than aesthetics, with a stem turned up to whatever angle it needs to be in order to place bars at correct elevation?

Is a stem a couple of cm higher much different than a seat post a couple of cm higher? Don’t see how other than looks. Doesn’t really change function of “fit” materially. Or does it?

[Bob Loblaw]

This is like discussing what color your future wife's hair should be. There are a lot more important factors at play.

BL

[martinrjensen]

so.... this has almost no relevance to the OP's question seeing as your bike has a sloping top tube. The OP appears to be concerned about asthetics, otherwise I don't see why he would be even asking this question. I mean seat post length is 100% about fit not looks. It's really a crazy (to be polite) question IMO.and it has a sloping top tube...He wanted to make sure there was enough post showing so it could go into a workstand clamp without having to adjust the seatpost height. he was not concerned so much about aesthetics as all around practicality. that amount also happens to look good on that bike = about 10 cm.

[christian]

It's only crazy if you own the bike already.

To wit - a 57 and a 58 Colnago have the same reach within 2mm (58 has a slacker STA which offsets longer TT) and the 58 has a 7mm higher stack. Pretty much the biggest difference between them is how much post you want showing.

[jpw]

= to headtube length is a nice place to start.

+1

[Joachim]

so.... this has almost no relevance to the OP's question seeing as your bike has a sloping top tube. The OP appears to be concerned about asthetics, otherwise I don't see why he would be even asking this question. I mean seat post length is 100% about fit not looks. It's really a crazy (to be polite) question IMO.

This was purely a question out of interest sake. And yes its about aesthetics, I'm still going to ride the frame whether I have 10cm, 11cm, 12cm or 13cm seatpost showing. As long as it fits, since its a given (I hope and to be polite) that my saddle height doesn't change based on how much seatpost I want showing. I have lost count how many times people have asked "should I go with silver or black components"? I guess that is also a really crazy question, since its all about aesthetics. Not to mention all the other "aesthetic" questions that are asked on the forum.

There always has to be one...

[firerescuefin]

since its all about aesthetics.....

Poser :help:

[Joachim]

Poser :help:

Doesn't your BB match your headset color? :)

[fuzzalow]

This was purely a question out of interest sake. And yes its about aesthetics,

No problem. Bandwidth is cheap. AFAIAC bike talk is good and the repetition is reassuring.

[firerescuefin]

Doesn't your BB match your headset color? :)

Not to mention my brakes and seatpost clamp:cool:

[Kontact]

peoples anatomy has not changed, level top tubes were always the norm until Giant realized they could make 3 sizes of frame and cut down on prodcution costs and therefore increase profits. + mtbs where dropped top tubes meant less bollock interfaces ocurring.... people started wanting mtb lookalikes, marketing men xould aslo say slopers made for stiffer frames but neglected to say that the saddle would be perched o. a longer lever....

just my rambling thoughts
People with long legs and short torsos had a hard time riding stock frames until angled top tubes. I don't care if it started as a shortcut - it isn't anymore.

What’s wrong, other than aesthetics, with a stem turned up to whatever angle it needs to be in order to place bars at correct elevation?

Is a stem a couple of cm higher much different than a seat post a couple of cm higher? Don’t see how other than looks. Doesn’t really change function of “fit” materially. Or does it?

Flipping the stem will give you maybe 3cm at most with a 30degree stem. Long head tubes are often 5 or 6cm longer than traditional. It matters.

[Chance]

Flipping the stem will give you maybe 3cm at most with a 30degree stem. Long head tubes are often 5 or 6cm longer than traditional. It matters.

Just measured two bikes with stems turned up that raise bars approximately 3 inches compared to if they had level -17 degree stems. That’s between 7 and 8 cm. And if you add or subtract 1 or 2 additional cm of spacers, the total adjustment range is more than practically any rider needs. Beyond a total of 10 CM then maybe a true custom frame could be justified if aesthetics wasn’t the primary obstacle.

If you select the right length bike almost any fit can be accomplished with proper selection of stem and seat post provided appearance doesn’t matter. And obviously it does. To almost any rider including me.

Having said that, raising or lowering the head tube or the top tube at front and or back doesn’t change function that much. As long as steering axis remains at fixed location the bike will handle the same whether stem is turned up or if head tube is made higher and then level stem is used. Same is same. Other than aesthetics. And that does matter.

[Kontact]

Just measured two bikes with stems turned up that raise bars approximately 3 inches compared to if they had level -17 degree stems. That’s between 7 and 8 cm. And if you add or subtract 1 or 2 additional cm of spacers, the total adjustment range is more than practically any rider needs. Beyond a total of 10 CM then maybe a true custom frame could be justified if aesthetics wasn’t the primary obstacle.

If you select the right length bike almost any fit can be accomplished with proper selection of stem and seat post provided appearance doesn’t matter. And obviously it does. To almost any rider including me.

Having said that, raising or lowering the head tube or the top tube at front and or back doesn’t change function that much. As long as steering axis remains at fixed location the bike will handle the same whether stem is turned up or if head tube is made higher and then level stem is used. Same is same. Other than aesthetics. And that does matter.
The part that's missing here is that most riders we fit wouldn't be comfortable on a traditional frame with 4cm of spacers and a -17 stem. They need it higher than that. If you take a long legged person with the same flexibility (or lack there of), you have to add to that starting point, which may be +6 and 4cm of spacers. Now you're only getting 2 or 3 cm extra.

Tall headtubes are not a fix for leggy riders - they are a fix for normal riders that allow the leggy crowd to work with stock bicycles in the way they used to in the days of threaded steerers and Technomic stems.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NTjlyrQrB3k/SHyooFWW-KI/AAAAAAAAB8k/cQqlIEIPktA/s400/IMG_5679.JPG

[jmoore]

19.24cm

[NRRider]

Tall headtubes are not a fix for leggy riders
They aren't? I'm one of those leggy riders and have been buying used custom frames with long head tubes (especially relative to top tube) to help solve my fit issues. What else would the fix be? This one has a 56cm T and 20.7 HT.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/Pissler/IMG_3451.jpg

[alancw3]

so with a sloping top tube i wold have to say two fists full or what grant peterson said about a level top tube of one fist full.

personally i feel that if a bike is fitted correctly there so not be more than two fists full of seat post showing. imho

[Joachim]

Starting building the frame today and it worked out pretty well. With my saddle height the seatpost is 12.5cm from the top of the seat clamp to the saddle rails. Together with a -17 degree stem to get the required h/bar drop and no spacers, I think it will turn out alright.

[martinrjensen]

I actually think that bike would look better with a flipped (up) stem and a few less spacers.They aren't? I'm one of those leggy riders and have been buying used custom frames with long head tubes (especially relative to top tube) to help solve my fit issues. What else would the fix be? This one has a 56cm T and 20.7 HT.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/Pissler/IMG_3451.jpg

[Kontact]

They aren't? I'm one of those leggy riders and have been buying used custom frames with long head tubes (especially relative to top tube) to help solve my fit issues. What else would the fix be? This one has a 56cm T and 20.7 HT.

If you read my comments in context, you'd realize that I was saying "tall head tubes on stock bicycles were not created primarily for long legged people, but to fit a wider range of flexibility." Nothing about my statement was about customs, but here's what I think about that:

As far as customs for leggy people, they don't need tall head tubes any more than anyone else - you could get a level top tube just as much as the next person. Leggy people need tall frames with proportionately short top tubes. The sloping top tube or extended head tube is an aesthetic choice when a custom builder is involved.

http://bicyclechain.com/sites/bicyclechain.com/files/styles/large/public/IMG_6573.JPG

[martinrjensen]

Here is "not enough seat post" asthetically speaking IMO. Not much I can do about it though. it is what it is for my fit.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/martinrjensen/Bike%20Merckx%20753/merckx753finished006.jpg

[thwart]

http://bicyclechain.com/sites/bicyclechain.com/files/styles/large/public/IMG_6573.JPG

Yikes. The exact opposite of a garage door bike shot... :eek:

My eyes!

[buldogge]

Looks fine to me...but...that seat angle is killing me!

-Mark in St. Louis

Here is "not enough seat post" asthetically speaking IMO. Not much I can do about it though. it is what it is for my fit.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/martinrjensen/Bike%20Merckx%20753/merckx753finished006.jpg

[bluesea]

Here is "not enough seat post" asthetically speaking IMO. Not much I can do about it though. it is what it is for my fit.



I would have similar seatpost exposure with a traditional seat lug. :cool: Pity me as my next build will have a fat horizontal top tube and an external seatpost clamp. :eek: In the end I don't really care, just as long as I can get enough handlebar drop.

[Seramount]

hmm, never heard of the fist/finger thing...

exposed seatpost on my level TT bike is exactly one fist + two fingers (1.4 fists).

but, I have somewhat smallish hands (can't palm a basketball), so using a standard measuring device, it's 10.2 cm.

HT is 14.0 cm.

things seem to be adjusted appropriately and it looks ok to my eye...

[martinrjensen]

Actually I just barely have that (bar drop I want), but, it's still a nice bike to ride and it's definately close enough to be satisfying.I would have similar seatpost exposure with a traditional seat lug. :cool: Pity me as my next build will have a fat horizontal top tube and an external seatpost clamp. :eek: In the end I don't really care, just as long as I can get enough handlebar drop.

[martinrjensen]

It's mostly the picture angle but it was off a bit and i did fix it a whle ago; here.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/martinrjensen/Bike%20Merckx%20753/001.jpgLooks fine to me...but...that seat angle is killing me!

-Mark in St. Louis

[djg]

So I am the lucky owner of Akelman's level top tube, blue tint, Ottrott. My first level top tube frame in about 10 years. How much seatpost do you have showing? Yes, its superficial and shallow, but I keep reminding me that the frames in the 90's had much less seatpost showing that these days (190mm Campy seatposts anyone?).

Dude -- you've already bought the frame, right? A super nice frame that's the right size? So you'll want enough seatpost showing to fill the gap between the seat tube and where you like your saddle.

Once upon a time folks would say something like a "fist-full" or two, which wouldn't have been any sort of consistent measure even if we ignored the 1-2 range -- different things looked perfectly good, which was handy as different folks actually needed different things and it's a darn shame or worse when fashion trumps function. Nowadays most of us have gotten used to looking at bikes with sloping top tubes, often with much more post exposed, but set your bike up decently and it will look fine and dandy whether 3, 6, or 9" of post are exposed. Really, it's how you use it. And if you're not getting complaints, why worry?