Valve extenders vs. aesthetics = a huge PITA.

[dd74]

About a month ago I bought my first set of carbon wheels which are tubular. I took them and the new Vittoria Corsa CX tires I bought with the wheels to my LBS, which glued the tires on without the valve extenders. The mechanic who did this said, "They (the valve extenders) are really ugly."

Because the valves are now very short when coming out of the rim, I was unable to fit the head of the floor pump I had to pump the tires. So the LBS sold me a new pump that screwed on instead of clamped on.

As a consequence, the screw-on type pump has managed to pull the valves out from the Vittoria tires twice in one week. The first time this happened, the LBS charged me the cost of a tire and the labor to glue on the tires. This morning, it happened again.

All I can think is if they had installed the valve extenders, as the instructions that came with the wheels said, I wouldn't be having these problems with pulling out the valves.

Do I have any recourse toward getting the LBS to remove the front and rear tires, replace the one tire that is now damaged, install the valve extenders and glue the tires back on, because they decided, aesthetically, to not put on the valve extenders in the first place?

Thanks for reading through this.

[rphetteplace]

Your lbs is retarded if they didn't know that would happen. I wouldn't trust them to glue my tires imho.

[reggiebaseball]

I feel your pain.

First, of all, if they are the newer Vittoria tires that screw on and off at the base tape, you can potentially replace the extender without removing the tire from the rim, you kinda just unscrew, your tire rapidly deflates, and you blindly dip a new extender inthere and screw it on and reflate. This works pretty good about 85% of the time.

Secondly, I simply would not patronize a shop further that is this stupid, and that charges you to correct their mistakes.

BTW, those valve extenders are a bit fragile, and the screw on type pumps like Lezyne can also strip the threads of the valve extender.

I too have bent and then snapped the little pin in there, and recently just replaced my valve extender myself without ungluing the tire, I was quite pleased with how easy it was.

[Jason E]

They should not have done it like that. Now, every time you need to put air in your tires, you risk bending or breaking your valves. Proper installation of your tubular tires should've included the valve stems, regardless of the opinions of mechanic..

Did he tell you that since he was doing it his way, not the right way, that he wouldn't charge you so much every time you had a go in there to get something fixed on it?

Poor form on their part.

JE

PS: I thought this was going to be another thread like how to pick up bike. Thank you for it not being that.

[benitosan1972]

Well you can ask them to replace their mistakes, at their cost.
But I wouldn't go back there, and just take the loss as an $$$ lesson.
Who knows what else they'll do wrong , I'd say theshould lose you as a customer.

[rphetteplace]

Unscew the valve put the extender on first with teflon tape then the red vittoria valve on with more teflon tape.

[dd74]

Did he tell you that since he was doing it his way, not the right way, that he wouldn't charge you so much every time you had a go in there to get something fixed on it?
No! And what's worse, because the valves were so short w/o the extenders, the floor pump I initially had wouldn't latch onto the valves. So they sold me a thread-on type Lezyne floor pump which has been the main reason the valves have been pulling out of the tires.

Now, $300 later in a new pump, tires, maintenance -- all in two weeks time, as of this morning, I have another brand new tire that's basically useless.

[firerescuefin]

As mentioned previously...unscrew the current extenders and screw on some new Longer ones (Vittoria). Even blindly, its easy to do. They are a little pricey for extenders...but it's a hell of a lot better than what's going on now

[Ti Designs]

Once again, the education system has gone wrong. There are lots of riders out there using deep section tubulars, most of them understand what it takes to put air in them (I hope...). But someone none of them have taken the time to explain the whole process to you. Instead you've gone to the bike shop, got little bits and pieces of the whole process explained by someone who probably doesn't ride deep section tubulars, and it's cost you...

I'm simply going to agree that learning things in the wrong order can be expensive. I'm also going to stress that these little bits of advice here are not the full tubular education - find a friend who uses tubulars and knows what they are doing, go over and understand the whole process.

[DogpawSlim]

I wouldn't ask or expect them to make it right, but I would go back there and give them hell. The shop management should know about this, so should the public (yelp).

[dd74]

Once again, the education system has gone wrong. There are lots of riders out there using deep section tubulars, most of them understand what it takes to put air in them (I hope...).
So what does it take to put air in them when the pump head won't seal over the valve? It seems as if the manufacturer includes valve extenders, they should be used, correct?

But someone none of them have taken the time to explain the whole process to you. Instead you've gone to the bike shop, got little bits and pieces of the whole process explained by someone who probably doesn't ride deep section tubulars, and it's cost you...
Can you explain the whole process? I'd appreciate it.

I'm simply going to agree that learning things in the wrong order can be expensive. I'm also going to stress that these little bits of advice here are not the full tubular education - find a friend who uses tubulars and knows what they are doing, go over and understand the whole process.
I don't know many who use tubulars with carbon rims. Regardless, after riding on them for about 500 miles, I'll never look back. Anyway, yes, I'd like a full tubular education, if you can provide one. It seems fairly easy that the pump head should fit over the valve and air pumped into the tire. I can't figure out what else I might be missing.

[verticaldoug]

Occam's Razor.

$15 for valve extenders vs how much?

[Ti Designs]

So what does it take to put air in them when the pump head won't seal over the valve? It seems as if the manufacturer includes valve extenders, they should be used, correct?

The wheel manufacturer assumes little when they include the valve extenders - do your tires have removable cores? How long are the valves on your tires? Does the tire come with different length valves like the new Vittoria tires? They don't know these things, they make wheels.


Can you explain the whole process? I'd appreciate it.

Over the internet? Probably not. There are just so many options, all of which you'll understand better when they're in your hands. Valves for example, Vittoria now makes their tires with different lenght replacable valves just for this reason. Many tires have removable valve cores so you can add an extension to the valve and replace the core at the end and use a normal push-on pump.

When I say "full education", I'm talking about how my coach started me on using tubulars. First came the gluing lesson. Even if you never plan on gluing your own tires, this is where you learn what is or isn't safe. I'm always blown away by people who use tubulars but don't understand how contact cement works. If you don't get that, what happens when you flat? Come to think of it, how do you carry a spare? I see so many people hold a spare tire under the saddle with just a strap. When they need the tire, it's been covered with anything the back wheel kicks up, so it's not really going to stick. There are things called tire bags - $14 well spent.

These are all things that someone should take the time to show you. Have cyclists become such a$$holes that we can't do that any more? If ever you happen to be in the Boston area, I'll do it myself, but it'll cost you a pizza...

[rustychisel]

A pizza??

Are you insane? Why so expensive when I can get some douche on the internetweb to explain it for free?:fight:

[Ti Designs]

Are you insane? Why so expensive when I can get some douche on the internetweb to explain it for free?

You don't understand, there are rules. After shop hours, pizza is a part of the gluing process, much like beer is required to adjust derailleurs. If you can't bake chocolate chip cookies, don't ask me to build wheels...

[jtakeda]

If you can't bake chocolate chip cookies, don't ask me to build wheels...


Best response ever.

[Tony T]

Find a new LBS

[jblande]

put loctite on the valves. that will get you out of your present situation, until you wear out the tires and use proper valve extenders.

[Gummee]

You don't understand, there are rules. After shop hours, pizza is a part of the gluing process, much like beer is required to adjust derailleurs. If you can't bake chocolate chip cookies, don't ask me to build wheels...

+1

To the OP: two words. Screw-on extenders. Get some short ones. Screw em on to pump up your tires. Take em off for riding. Your super expensive aero wheels stay aero.

I don't quite get why folks spend all that $$ to get aero wheels then put on extenders that make em not as aero any more. What's more important? Ease of adding air or speed on the road?

M

[titans]

One tip not mentioned yet and not sure if your LBS did so but pinch the removable valve core at the screw head before installing your tubular. This prevents it from riding up the core stem to the closed position when inflating your tires. If not done initially the head will continue to ride up until you can't put air into tire anymore. No need to do on box section rims for obvious reasons. Good luck with the wheels and tires.

[atl001]

I don't know many who use tubulars with carbon rims.

If you need education via internet, a number of guys on the Weight Weenies forum run tubulars on carbon wheels, and have a couple sticky threads with lots of info for tubular newbies:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72309
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70013

Good luck!

[nooneline]

most amateur (and pro, goes without saying) racers who use carbon wheels use tubulars, not clinchers... in fact, i don't know anybody who uses carbon clinchers.

but that's all beside the point.

it really seems like your LBS screwed up, oversold you, and you're right to be mad. There is a quick fix of probably being able to thread on extenders, like others have said, but you should still go to your lbs and say, "hey, are you guys serious with this? i didn't know better, but you should have."

[oldpotatoe]

most amateur (and pro, goes without saying) racers who use carbon wheels use tubulars, not clinchers... in fact, i don't know anybody who uses carbon clinchers.

but that's all beside the point.

it really seems like your LBS screwed up, oversold you, and you're right to be mad. There is a quick fix of probably being able to thread on extenders, like others have said, but you should still go to your lbs and say, "hey, are you guys serious with this? i didn't know better, but you should have."

And hope they DID know better.

[AngryScientist]

it blows my mind that any cyclist would ride wheels that they were unable to change the tires on.

changing your own tires, be they clincher or tubular is really the most basic of mechanical functions you can and need to perform.

learn to fish my friend.

[dd74]

it blows my mind that any cyclist would ride wheels that they were unable to change the tires on.

changing your own tires, be they clincher or tubular is really the most basic of mechanical functions you can and need to perform.

learn to fish my friend.
The intent of this thread is not about changing tires. This thread is about being potentially misled by an LBS who seems to not have performed the work properly, and in that, what my recourse is. I believe that's fairly clear throughout these last two pages.

[dd74]

+1

To the OP: two words. Screw-on extenders. Get some short ones. Screw em on to pump up your tires. Take em off for riding. Your super expensive aero wheels stay aero.

I don't quite get why folks spend all that $$ to get aero wheels then put on extenders that make em not as aero any more. What's more important? Ease of adding air or speed on the road?

M
Screw-on extenders. What do you recommend?

[verticaldoug]

+1

To the OP: two words. Screw-on extenders. Get some short ones. Screw em on to pump up your tires. Take em off for riding. Your super expensive aero wheels stay aero.

I don't quite get why folks spend all that $$ to get aero wheels then put on extenders that make em not as aero any more. What's more important? Ease of adding air or speed on the road?

M

According to Zipp, the final 12mm above the rim makes no difference. The airflow around the rim makes the wheel act deeper. They no longer hide the stems.

I like the zipp extenders that screw into the stem with removable valves. Leakage is not an issue even without tape.

[AngryScientist]

The intent of this thread is not about changing tires. This thread is about being potentially misled by an LBS who seems to not have performed the work properly, and in that, what my recourse is. I believe that's fairly clear throughout these last two pages.

and i was offering my opinion. your lbs did you a disservice, i agree with that. my opinion is that your recourse is to not provide them with any additional business, or opportunities to do less than excellent work for you. further it is my opinion that you should rely on some of the resources available to you and learn to mount and dismount your own tires, thus alleviating the need to rely on a lbs. i also think you should just use the valve extenders, as others have mentioned.

just for the record, i was not taking a shot at you, or meaning any negative vibes. i would tell a friend of mine the same thing, learn to change your own tires, in the long run, it will save you time, money and aggravation - especially in the case of an emergency or urgent repair. tires all wear out and puncture, and unless you have a team car, you're wasting potentially valuable time and money waiting for a lbs to change a tire for you.

again though, just offering friendly advice. :beer::beer:

[dd74]

and i was offering my opinion. your lbs did you a disservice, i agree with that. my opinion is that your recourse is to not provide them with any additional business, or opportunities to do less than excellent work for you. further it is my opinion that you should rely on some of the resources available to you and learn to mount and dismount your own tires, thus alleviating the need to rely on a lbs. i also think you should just use the valve extenders, as others have mentioned.

just for the record, i was not taking a shot at you, or meaning any negative vibes. i would tell a friend of mine the same thing, learn to change your own tires, in the long run, it will save you time, money and aggravation - especially in the case of an emergency or urgent repair. tires all wear out and puncture, and unless you have a team car, you're wasting potentially valuable time and money waiting for a lbs to change a tire for you.

again though, just offering friendly advice. :beer::beer:
Thanks, A.S. I appreciate yours and everyone's advice here.

[dd74]

According to Zipp, the final 12mm above the rim makes no difference. The airflow around the rim makes the wheel act deeper. They no longer hide the stems.

I like the zipp extenders that screw into the stem with removable valves. Leakage is not an issue even without tape.
That's what I have. Zipp 202s. Of course the LBS has the valve extenders somewhere in the shop. :rolleyes:

[nebraskacycling]

Screw-on extenders. What do you recommend?

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=7884&MODE=

or

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=9034&MODE=

Does your tire now look like the one shown in the picture 3/4 the way down this page?

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52571&sid=c7cc508a88432759d15cad073da75b5a

I don't know how the tire is useless unless the valve completely separated from the tire. Please post a picture of the damage if so.

[cmg]

zipp extenders require that the valve remain in an open position. you will turn the valve until you hear/feel a little click. once there the valve will always remain open. to be closed by air pressure.

the vittoria extension requires that you remove the valve core and relocate it to the end of the extension. use plumbers tape on threads to assure an air tight seal.

always try to calculate the lenght of extension needed. longer is better. will a longer extension reduce the aerodymanic performance of the wheel? :) yea, by the diameter of the extension. expensive lesson. if they didn't get the valve right what makes you think they did a careful glue job on the tubes?

[verticaldoug]

That's what I have. Zipp 202s. Of course the LBS has the valve extenders somewhere in the shop. :rolleyes:

I thought the vittoria corsa evo line of tires come with 42mm valves standard.
Since the 202's are 32mm deep, I'd think you'd be fine without extenders.

The short extenders from ZIPP is all you need. The long ones will be overkill.

[dd74]

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=7884&MODE=

or

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=9034&MODE=

Does your tire now look like the one shown in the picture 3/4 the way down this page?

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52571&sid=c7cc508a88432759d15cad073da75b5a

I don't know how the tire is useless unless the valve completely separated from the tire. Please post a picture of the damage if so.

My Vittorias use the red valves. But I believe they are the shortest ones Vittoria offers as they don't poke through enough for my pump head even while my rims are 32mm. As I recall the last time this happened, the valve completely separated from the tire. I saw no base on which the valve could be screwed back on inside the tire. It would be great if they did. I'd be able to just screw the valve back in.

[damocles]

I recently went through just about everything you described here. I'm no expert on these things, but I did come to the conclusion that I don't like screw on pumps like Lezyne ones. It does seem much to easy to have those pumps remove either the valve core, or the whole value stem on Vittoria tubulars.

If you're in the habit of riding with Vittoria Pit Stop as backup for punctures, you'll also need a decent amount of valve showing in order to get the Pit Stop to release. Learned that one the hard way as well...

Back to the original inquiry though. I wouldn't be happy with the experience you had with the LBS.