test ride or leap of faith?

[Climb01742]

i'm curious about how others feel:

you want a new ride. how comfortable are you buying a new bike without taking it for a test ride? if you're ordering a custom bike, isn't it always a leap of faith? what's been your track record for being satisfied or disappointed in bikes you've bought without a test ride? and if you buy a bike via a leap of faith and you're 'meh' or disappointed, how do you feel about selling it and eating whatever the loss is?

so what's your preference? test ride or leap of faith?

[jlwdm]

My first custom was a leap of faith with Paraic (before his stint at Serotta) for a Serotta (Kelly Bedford on the Serotta end of things) and it changed everything about cycling for me. It has been perfect. I ride so many more miles.

Second custom with Tom Kellogg is perfect also. Problem is the bike is in Seattle and I am not. Ti Road bike with room for wider tires and fenders.

The important thing to me is dealing with people I have faith in to get the job done.

If the bike did not work well for me I would sell it and move on.

Jeff

[gdw]

I usually just buy frames so every purchase is a leap of faith and the only ones that haven't lived up to the hype were early full-suspension mtb's. Try to get as much info on the geometry as possible and go from there.

[rugbysecondrow]

100% satisfied with my customs from Bedford, 2 for me and 1 for my wife.

I worked with Smiley though so that was a HUGE contributing factor. Also, I didn't pretend I knew more than the experts so I followed their recommendations rather than telling them how to build me a bike.

Cheers

[jr59]

Depends on who you are dealing with.

If you trust and believe in what the custom builder does.

Buying a stock bike without a test ride is much more of a leap of faith.

I also have a Ti Spectrum road/race bike. It's perfect, it fit like a glove and rides like a dream. All that by sending a few pics and a coulpe of measurements. As I have never met TK.

My Davidson also came out nice. I had more than a few problems with the fit and final details, but it all came out nicely.

Now with buying a used bike, even a high end one, it's hit and miss. Much more a leap of faith.

[Bob Loblaw]

If you buy quality, there are no losers or winners, just differences. A bike might not be what you expected, but it will be excellent in its own way.

BL

[Ken Robb]

With a custom bike I would choose a builder in whom I had great confidence in his ability to build me a bike to suit my requested performance. There would be no requirement for a test ride.

For a stock bike I would require a test ride to see if the copy writer's description equaled my expectations.

[choke]

I've owned 20+ bikes over the years and have test ridden exactly one of those. Most were purchased as framesets but some were complete bikes; only one was a disappointment.

[93legendti]

I bought my Serottas, Kellogg, Kirk, Salsa, Ritchey and Bike Friday based upon reviews and what I learned here and thru the Serotta Forum. If I was to buy one of the bikes sold in the Performance shop where I work part time, I'd read up on the bike and do a test ride.
Not much else appeals to me these days...

[Louis]

It's not a leap of faith if you're buying the frameset from an individual or company with a long and successful track record. It's only a leap of faith if you're buying it from someone who's been in the business for two months and has built frames only for himself and a handful of buddies.

Of course that doesn't mean that Option A will always produce a perfect bike, or that Option B is doomed to failure, but you can predict what is more likely to work and what might not.

[Grant McLean]

how comfortable are you buying a new bike without taking it for a test ride?

if you're ordering a custom bike, isn't it always a leap of faith?

what's been your track record for being satisfied or disappointed in bikes you've bought without a test ride?

if you buy a bike via a leap of faith and you're 'meh' or disappointed,
how do you feel about selling it and eating whatever the loss is?

so what's your preference? test ride or leap of faith?


I'm very unlikely to ever buy another bike without a test ride of something very similar
to what i'll be getting (if I buy). Custom's are a huge leap.

Without a test ride... record is not good. It's generally a test ride that puts
the idea in my head in the first place. Most bikes are 'meh' to me, personally
it's about plucking something very special out of the noise. Selling at a loss
is far better than riding a bike you don't have any emotion for.

I'm not likely to ever buy another bike without a test ride.

-g

[Smiley]

my first custom was a leap of faith with paraic (before his stint at serotta) for a serotta (kelly bedford on the serotta end of things) and it changed everything about cycling for me. It has been perfect. I ride so many more miles.

Second custom with tom kellogg is perfect also. Problem is the bike is in seattle and i am not. Ti road bike with room for wider tires and fenders.

The important thing to me is dealing with people i have faith in to get the job done.

If the bike did not work well for me i would sell it and move on.

Jeff

bingo +100000000000000000000000000000000

[SPOKE]

Speaking of customs only......
It is kind of a leap of faith......but you really need to be able to describe the ride qualities you want. Once you can do that then you can contact the builders that you believe can accomplish the job.
I'm a firm believer that there is not a "perfect" bike. But I have a whole bunch that are great but each is just a little bit different. Each builder has even been able to meet my expectations very well with each one built.
I really enjoy grabbing a bike off my rack that I haven't ridden in a while. Each time I just smile and think "this is a great rideing bike!"

[Peter P.]

i'm curious about how others feel:

you want a new ride. how comfortable are you buying a new bike without taking it for a test ride? if you're ordering a custom bike, isn't it always a leap of faith? what's been your track record for being satisfied or disappointed in bikes you've bought without a test ride? and if you buy a bike via a leap of faith and you're 'meh' or disappointed, how do you feel about selling it and eating whatever the loss is?

so what's your preference? test ride or leap of faith?

I've easily purchased 6 bikes without so much as a test ride. Some were custom, some off the showroom floor. I've never had a bike that rode so bad I had to sell it.

Is a custom bike a leap of faith? That's a tough call. When you're dealing with individual builders vs. companies that have to design bikes to the largest common denominator then yes; there seems to be a bit more of a risk involved with the custom builder because framebuilders can be a quirky lot and have opinions on framebuilding far outside the norm.

If I truly didn't like a bike it would pain me to take the financial loss but peace of mind would be worth it to sell the thing, as long as I wasn't passing on hidden problems to someone else.

[Earl Gray]

To prevent an argument I'll declare that I'm not very sensitive to fairly small nuances with frames. I've almost never liked a new frame within the first few rides but before long Im pretty happy with all of them.

This has caused me to conclude that any high end or custom frame would be a complete waste. I'm mostly done buying bikes, but I suspect any/all to come will be used and cheap.

[Ray]

Any bike I've ever owned took a few rides to get everything set up right and tweaked until it was just right and I never really knew quite how I felt about a bike for at least a couple of weeks. I'd get on bikes and dislike them right away but ultimately come to like them a lot, get on bikes and like them a lot but never really bond with them over time. And SOMETIMES my early impressions would live on as long as I had the bike, but I could never really trust that given the wide range of positive and negative experiences and the number of times my feelings changed. So, basically, it was always a bit of a wing and a prayer. Turns out the bikes I liked the most for the long haul, I liked a LOT right off the bat (my first Riv and both of my Spectrums), so you could say there would have been something to a test ride on those, but I liked other bikes just about as much in the early days only to sour on them in a period of weeks or months, whereas I just kept appreciating the Riv and Spectrums more and more and more.

So, to me, test rides are meaningless - gotta put in some time on a bike to really KNOW, so you're always taking your chances to some degree.

-Ray

[Fixed]

I'm very unlikely to ever buy another bike without a test ride of something very similar
to what i'll be getting (if I buy). Custom's are a huge leap.

Without a test ride... record is not good. It's generally a test ride that puts
the idea in my head in the first place. Most bikes are 'meh' to me, personally
it's about plucking something very special out of the noise. Selling at a loss
is far better than riding a bike you don't have any emotion for.

I'm not likely to ever buy another bike without a test ride.

-g
Advise from an inside bike business guy that has had many what I would call dream bikes, grant knows bikes
IMHO cheers

[pdmtong]

Advise from an inside bike business guy that has had many what I would call dream bikes, grant knows bikes
IMHO cheers

grant's point is taken, but not implementable for many high end production rides. shops just dont have built C59s, RSLs, Dogma2s, etc. for folks to take out.

yea, I want to ride before buying too, but its not possible in many cases.

[weaponsgrade]

I don't think a test ride tells you a whole lot unless you get the opportunity to spend some real miles on it. I'll echo what others have said regarding finding someone with a good reputation and a track record. One thing I'll add is to think really hard about what you're looking for and how you'll use it.

[elcolombiano]

I think you have to put on many miles to understand the pluses and minuses of a bike. No bike is perfect and there are many compromises. Every bike is different and you have to ride it for a while to get used to it. If it feels different than you current bike you are not going to like it. It is like putting on a pair of new shoes. I hate new shoes at first. Also unless you put on the same handle bars, reach, drop, saddle, setback, pedals and tires you will not be comparing apples to apples.

[rugbysecondrow]

grant's point is taken, but not implementable for many high end production rides. shops just dont have built C59s, RSLs, Dogma2s, etc. for folks to take out.

yea, I want to ride before buying too, but its not possible in many cases.

Exactly, and almost never in a 60-62 frame. If you ride a 54-56 though, maybe more options.

[Grant McLean]

Lots more theoretical postulating to Climb's questions than any real answers...

I answered based on my experiences with buying before trying,
instead of telling Climb how difficult it is to perform a good test scenario.
I think he knows that already.


-g

[Climb01742]

Lots more theoretical postulating to Climb's questions than any real answers...

I answered based on my experiences with buying before trying,
instead of telling Climb how difficult it is to perform a good test scenario.
I think he knows that already.


-g

grant is right. i do know it's hard to create a good test scenario. something i'm sure most of us have run into.

just based on my experience, my batting average on trusting some very good builders has not been great. which isn't to say that the bikes haven't been good bikes. i'm not out to knock any builders. but the bikes just haven't met the goal i thought the builder and i had set out to achieve.

so i was curious how others felt and what they've experienced. at a previous point in my life, i was better able to absorb the cost of a leap of faith. not today. but is it a reasonable or wise cost to risk? a personal decision to be sure.

yes, test rides are imperfect predictors. but i think they can at least tell us, somewhat accurately, what we don't like. they can rule out frames perhaps more easily than rule frames in.

honestly, i'm glad grant chimed in. where he is is pretty much where i am. but being there does limit what you can try, as most shops don't have test bikes (in your size) of many of the most lust-worthy rides.

sort of a frustrating place to be.

[Ray]

yes, test rides are imperfect predictors. but i think they can at least tell us, somewhat accurately, what we don't like. they can rule out frames perhaps more easily than rule frames in.
I think that's the crux right there, but if you can only rule bikes out, it can help eliminate a few options but still pretty much leaves you with a wing and a prayer, if a slightly more focussed prayer. None of my three favorite all time bikes could have been test ridden - two being full customs and one being built to order (but not really custom except in some fairly inconsequential ways). I have owned a few bikes that I probably could have ruled out with a test ride, but several others that it took me months to really decide weren't doing it for me.

So I guess maybe the test ride (if you can work the details to really get it done RIGHT - very difficult proposition) can help you narrow the search a bit and maybe improves the odds a little. But not much more than that. And at the level of pickiness and trying to get it "just exactly right", which a lot of folks on this forum are experienced enough to be trying to do, the ruling out of obviously mis-matched bikes is the relatively easy part. And the hard part of really tweaking and adapting and seeing what works REALLY WELL is barely affected by the test ride, even if you can get a good test ride opportunity.

-Ray

[oldpotatoe]

grant's point is taken, but not implementable for many high end production rides. shops just dont have built C59s, RSLs, Dogma2s, etc. for folks to take out.

yea, I want to ride before buying too, but its not possible in many cases.

Some do and some don't.
I am the only bike shop west of the mississippi(maybe one other now) right now that has a Moots MX Divide demo bike.

YES it is an investment but I don't see anybody plunking down $5000 for this frame w/o first riding it. Samo for the other 4 Moots demos(Yes a RSL) and 4 Waterford/Gunnar demos....I think the mistake 'some' bike shops make is having a ton of bike lines and not being able to afford demos in all of them...

I sell 4 lines...

PLUS the advantage of forming a close relationship with few manufacturers, due to the higher volume of sales. If ya buy 2 or 3 frames per year vs 20-30, like with any customer relationship, good things happen.

[zap]

Test ride on roads I know and wheels I know and let me fiddle with it some.

Fit and geo is easy. it's a fine line between ride, ht stiffness, drive train stiffness, road feel and mood that I just don't think I can convey what I prefer to a builder in any meaningful way that would result in a product that satisfies.

I will even test ride a bike one size too small or large to get a feel for some of the testing parameters.

[Climb01742]

Some do and some don't.
I am the only bike shop west of the mississippi(maybe one other now) right now that has a Moots MX Divide demo bike.

YES it is an investment but I don't see anybody plunking down $5000 for this frame w/o first riding it. Samo for the other 4 Moots demos(Yes a RSL) and 4 Waterford/Gunnar demos....I think the mistake 'some' bike shops make is having a ton of bike lines and not being able to afford demos in all of them...

I sell 4 lines...

PLUS the advantage of forming a close relationship with few manufacturers, due to the higher volume of sales. If ya buy 2 or 3 frames per year vs 20-30, like with any customer relationship, good things happen.

want to open a shop in boston?;)

you have a rider-friendly model for a shop. and clearly, a rider-friendly mentality.

[Unpredictable]

I am with Oldpotatoe/Peter on this one. In todays market...with the astronomical price of bikes and frames, it is a requirement for me to test ride a STOCK bike before I buy. Heck, if the shop is making a commitment to selling a particular brand bike they believe in...believe in having a demo or two to ride. It further shows your confidence in the product too. I demoed a high end carbon bike last week (pluncked my fit numbers on it...as close as possible and my wheels) and took it for a 80 plus mile ride. Glad I did. It was a super nice bike....just not what I was looking for.

[Gummee]

I've owned 20+ bikes over the years and have test ridden exactly one of those. Most were purchased as framesets but some were complete bikes; only one was a disappointment.

I'm in a similar situation. I rarely buy complete bikes. Only real stinker in the mix was a Bontrager Road Lite. Road like it was dead. Ick

Pleasant surprise was an E5 S-Works that rode as nice as an SL steel frame

M

[tv_vt]

I think the answer will vary depending on who you are and your past experiences with bikes. For Climb, the OP, I know he's owned a ton of bikes. He surely knows what geometry has worked for him, and what hasn't. So right there he's better off than most people who walk into a bike shop looking for a new ride.

If you're new to cycling and don't know what works for you, geo-wise, and don't read tons of reviews on frames, etc., then a test ride is what you probably need. Especially if you're buying a whole bike and not just a frame.

I haven't test ridden a bike/frame that I've bought since 1996. Back then, I test rode a Serotta Atlanta and the Aluminum frame they had at the time, and I thought the aluminum frame was smoother. By the time I sold it about 7 years later, I thought it rode like a brick. At times, I've wondered about how the Atlanta might have worked out. But the point is, test rides can't show you all there is to learn about a bike. Kinda like dating your wife. You can date for as long as you like, but you'll never learn everything. (PS - I am a lucky guy :))

The point? Test ride if you can, do your homework either way. And remember, it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to divorce a bike...

[oldpotatoe]

want to open a shop in boston?;)

you have a rider-friendly model for a shop. and clearly, a rider-friendly mentality.

nope

thanks for the compliment

[fuzzalow]

With the exception of my first real bike bought a a complete cycle, every bike I have ever owned was built up from a frame. And every frame I have owned has been slightly different as far as setup for an optimum fit. So without even a semi-optimum fit on a test bike, I have my doubts as to how well a bike can be judged.

So if "test ride" means more than a perfunctory pass at getting fit onto the bike and a "test ride" of more than one hour in duration, then I agree that doing the exercise will be revealing of the bikes qualities.

If non of the above conditions are met, then the "test ride" is simply a sales tool. IMO. Because it is easy to take a good bike and alter its handling with a bad fit so the test ride reveals nothing useful. However, the test ride is useful for filling in the blanks of a test rider's expectation.

Admittedly, all conjecture on my part because I have never taken a test ride but have owned many bikes of the best of the best. And with few exceptions, I never rode a bike I didn't like. Or maybe I just possess lots of faith.

[Jack Brunk]

Custom frames are a crap shoot. My recent custom frame saga sold me again. At least with production frames you can get a good feeling with whatever maker you want. I'd buy from OP any chance I could. He gets it.

[rugbysecondrow]

I think the answer will vary depending on who you are and your past experiences with bikes. For Climb, the OP, I know he's owned a ton of bikes. He surely knows what geometry has worked for him, and what hasn't. So right there he's better off than most people who walk into a bike shop looking for a new ride.

If you're new to cycling and don't know what works for you, geo-wise, and don't read tons of reviews on frames, etc., then a test ride is what you probably need. Especially if you're buying a whole bike and not just a frame.

I haven't test ridden a bike/frame that I've bought since 1996. Back then, I test rode a Serotta Atlanta and the Aluminum frame they had at the time, and I thought the aluminum frame was smoother. By the time I sold it about 7 years later, I thought it rode like a brick. At times, I've wondered about how the Atlanta might have worked out. But the point is, test rides can't show you all there is to learn about a bike. Kinda like dating your wife. You can date for as long as you like, but you'll never learn everything. (PS - I am a lucky guy :))

The point? Test ride if you can, do your homework either way. And remember, it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to divorce a bike...

I will also add that for many of us, we aren't built like the folks doing the testing. What feels right for a 5'10" 160 bike journalist/writer will be a little different for me a 6'2" 230.

Interesting to say the least.

[fourflys]

I'm very unlikely to ever buy another bike without a test ride of something very similar
to what i'll be getting (if I buy). Custom's are a huge leap.

Without a test ride... record is not good. It's generally a test ride that puts
the idea in my head in the first place. Most bikes are 'meh' to me, personally
it's about plucking something very special out of the noise. Selling at a loss
is far better than riding a bike you don't have any emotion for.

I'm not likely to ever buy another bike without a test ride.

-g

agree with Grant here... almost every used bike I've bought without a test ride has been somewhat of a disappointment... either the steerer was cut too short already, geo a little wrong for me, etc... I think it really depends on knowing what you want/need... I'm still fairly new in my bike education so...

I would and will buy a custom on a leap of faith, but you've gotta be comfortable with the builder...

BTW- I've also learned that you can't just go by geo number alone...

[SamIAm]

I have a somewhat long history of buying custom bikes. The final product has never disappointed, but getting them has been a huge hassle at times. I'm not likely to order another.

I have never purchased a bike shop bicycle outside of my very first ride, a Trek 5200, which I did test ride. But over time, the "muted" feeling of the frame didn't work for me. I don't think I would have been able to figure this out during a test ride.

I have bought a few used bikes, never kept one. I'm not really sure why, probably just wasn't as invested in it.

The biggest mistakes I have made have been to order someone elses dream bike and not my own. Randonneur's come to mind here. I don't ride them yet I can't resist buying them from time to time because I like the idea and aesthetics of them. But they usually just sit.

I wrote a while back that I wish I would have bought my current Pacenti as my first bike. It would have likely saved me a great deal of money and frustration. High end steel, stock geo sensible race bikes. This is a what I recommend to local riders these days and no I don't think they need to test ride them.

[Fixed]

want to open a shop in boston?;)

you have a rider-friendly model for a shop. and clearly, a rider-friendly mentality.

+10000
Cheers
Vacation to bike Mecca and buy the perfect bike from a gentleman IMHO

[DreaminJohn]

Late to the party here.

I have a substantially different take than the majority here. To me, a person who has been riding the same Russian-ti frame/C'dale hybrid for 15 or so years, a test ride wouldn't be all the beneficial unless I somehow managed to set up more than 1 bike with the same config. How much would a trip from NJ to Vecchio's add to the cost of a new bike? :)

If I were to take the plunge, I would most likely put myself in the hands of an established builder of lugged frames (my choice for a dream bike). A leap of faith? Most assuredly. But I would take it on faith that said builder would take my needs/wants/desires and turn it into something that fulfills the dream or else work with me until it does.

Is that naive?

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE=SamIAm;1172267]

I have never purchased a bike shop bicycle outside of my very first ride, a Trek 5200, which I did test ride. But over time, the "muted" feeling of the frame didn't work for me. I don't think I would have been able to figure this out during a test ride. End Quote.

Interesting because when the 5200 bikes were new I test rode one to see how it compared with the Litespeed I owned and rode. I described the feel of the 5200 as "wooden" meaning "dead" to me and would not have traded even.

Note: this is a comment on the value of test rides not a knock on carbon bikes. I bought a LOOK from Skip Bash that was a wonderful bike.

[rugbysecondrow]

If I could just add a final point, leap of faith is the wrong phrase in my opinion unless you are going with an untested entity. IMO, a Bedford, Strong, Kirk, Spectrum, Serotta, Waterford, IF, Firefly etc are all tested, been around, strong track record etc. Does it mean it is without risk? Of course not, but it is a calculated decision with a small degree of risk. If you go with the new guy at NAHBS charging $4000 for the newest, coolest blah blah blah, then that might be a leap of faith, but that is part of the fun right? Being one of the first going with the new guy.

So I would say custom alone is not a leap of faith, there are variances within that realm which are quite real.

[fourflys]

If I could just add a final point, leap of faith is the wrong phrase in my opinion unless you are going with an untested entity. IMO, a Bedford, Strong, Kirk, Spectrum, Serotta, Waterford, IF, Firefly etc are all tested, been around, strong track record etc. Does it mean it is without risk? Of course not, but it is a calculated decision with a small degree of risk. If you go with the new guy at NAHBS charging $4000 for the newest, coolest blah blah blah, then that might be a leap of faith, but that is part of the fun right? Being one of the first going with the new guy.

So I would say custom alone is not a leap of faith, there are variances within that realm which are quite real.

agree and that's why I'll have no problem giving e-Richie a large chunk of my money eventually...