Put helmets on your kids!

[Gothard]

5 years of age. split his 2nd helmet today, crashed while climbing a sidewalk. Gets a new helmt, some antibiotic cream for the face/elbow/knee rash, and an ice cream for the soul.

Enough said.

[witcombusa]

:eek:Oh great....another helmet thread

[Gothard]

No, not a helmet thread, only a way to express my gratitude that my kid only has rash on the face instead of a cracked skull, which he very likely would have, were it not for the (now split) helmet.
I wonder how I made it to adult age without one...

[witcombusa]

The same way the rest of us did.

Riding a bike is not particularly hazardous.

Now driving your car is a completely different situation! Do you make him wear a helmet when you take him in your car?

[Gothard]

If you don't see the difference, I can not help you. Our cars have padding, airbags all over, a specially designed kid's seat with head protection. And no 5 year-olds learning to ride at the helm.

However, no matter what, my kid cracked (as in split in two) 2 helmets so far. Both crashes would have sent him to the hospital with at least a concussion, at worst a fractured skull.

It is not whether I believe in helmets, it is the simple fact that so far they have saved my son twice. Only a major league idiot would not put a lid on his kid after these 2 occurences.

But, you manage to turn a thread I wrote to express my gratitude for my kid's well being into a web dispute. I thank you for that (not).

[mjb266]

I'm with you and need to be more diligent with my little one. No reason not to wear one.

Glad to hear all is good and ice cream replaced a trip to the emergency room

[redir]

I never wore a helmet when I was a kid. God what awful awful parents I had. In fact I'm calling my mom now to tell her how awful she is :p

In all fairness... come on! Serious? You mention helmet in the tittle - it's a helmet thread.

Glad to hear your son is ok.

[mjb266]

People, a dad is thankful his son is okay. Quit being assholes.

[rugbysecondrow]

People, a dad is thankful his son is okay. Quit being assholes.

Amen.

[soulspinner]

GLAD HE IS OK. Time for a new helmet.:bike:

[firerescuefin]

people, a dad is thankful his son is okay. Quit being assholes.

+ 50

[Fixed]

Gothard knows.
When Gothard talks it is wise to listen closely IMHO
Cheers

[Karin Kirk]

I'm glad everything's OK George! I hope you guys got some ice cream too because wipe outs like that are stressful for everyone.

Hang in there!

[Bob Loblaw]

I'm glad the kid is okay. That's been me and mine a few times.

Here's hoping no one ever needs a helmet, especially those without them.

BL

[ahsere]

Helmet threads are boring, and helmets themselves are even more boring, but I for one have split a couple of helmets in the last two years, one against the sidewalk when I was doored in te city, one against a dirt road in the middle of nowhere when I crashed during a century. Boring as hell but my head is still in one piece. In my country of origin nobody wears helmets, in fact they´re not readily available, and plenty of people make it to adult age without them, but I still won´t let my child ride without one. I guess those who think riding a bike is not hazardous have never crashed, and never will. Glad your son is OK, and keep the boring helmet threads coming.

[Cat3roadracer]

Let's continue the positive vibe - I received a Giro Atmos today from Pricepoint, $99.00. Quite a nice product for the price.

Glad your Son is ok. Modern helmets are quite comfortable and do their job well.

[Dekonick]

Glad your son is fine. I also encourage my kids to wear lids...

:banana:

[Mr Cabletwitch]

My son knows that if I catch him on his bike without a helmet he looses his bike for 24 hours. That said I set a good example and always wear my helmet even on trips around the neighborhood. I never wore a helmet as a kid but after watching my 2 year old rear end my neighbors car at full speed (with a helmet on) and get up insisting he was ok so he could keep riding his bike I refuse to let him go without a proper fitting helmet. He is not even three yet and is on his third helmet. With the sky rocketing cost of medical care and insurance companies doing their best to make you pay as much as possible a helmet if nothing else is a savings plan on what could be potential ER trips. I've also managed to outfit most of my neighborhood children with helmets by recycling the helmets I buy for my nephew and son and any helmets that get passed onto me by friends for the purpose. It makes me feel good knowing that at least the kids on my street are protected.

[oldpotatoe]

No, not a helmet thread, only a way to express my gratitude that my kid only has rash on the face instead of a cracked skull, which he very likely would have, were it not for the (now split) helmet.
I wonder how I made it to adult age without one...

This is a SERIOUS question, not an attempt to start any type of helmet or anti helmet 'war'.

I asked the same thing to a email buddy in the Netherlands.

Around here, it is very rare to see any adult riding w/o a helmet. Saw one yesterday, riding a Ridley but it is very rare.

Same in Europe? I would guess there are more that don't but just asking.

BTW-I wear one, a Giro Aeon, cuz my wife makes me.

[Ramjm_2000]

People, a dad is thankful his son is okay. Quit being assholes.

THANK YOU! If you didn't say it I would have. My 5 year old is on helmet #2 as well, the last spill spooked him so bad it has set back getting off training wheels for a bit.

[alancw3]

to me wearing a helmet is like wearing a seatbelt. once in a while i see someone cycling w/o a helmet and i can only think how foolish they are. i always try to instill the importance of wearing a helmet to my two grandsons.

[parris]

I'm glad your son's okay but for the really important question... what flavor ice cream? It bugs me when I see parents let their kids ride without helmets locally.

[illuminaught]

I'm glad he's okay!
I can't believe the first couple of responses.

[Gothard]

Thank you all for the good vibe.
Ice cream was vanilla, with wild strawberries we picked this week in the mountain above the house, and whipped cream.

I am glad to say he has no ill effects besides the chin rash, which he has all but forgotten about. Tomorrow is helmet purchase.

Peter, helmet use is spreading fast here, only the know-it-all yupppies who think they don't crash and the people who ride once a year don't use them. Mountain roads with >10% grades make people aware of the risks quicker.

Son says hi to all. Guess where from?

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g371/georgeskromp/P1000778.jpg

[witcombusa]

to me wearing a helmet is like wearing a seatbelt. once in a while i see someone cycling w/o a helmet and i can only think how foolish they are.

See...it IS a helmet thread.

You people just can't help yourselves.

Decide for yourself and let it be...

[Mr Cabletwitch]

See...it IS a helmet thread.

You people just can't help yourselves.

Decide for yourself and let it be...



Yes but a young child can't decide for himself its his parents responsibility to make sure he is protected. If an adult chooses to not use a helmet that is their choice but a child relies on his parents to make competent choices for them

[witcombusa]

Yes but a young child can't decide for himself its his parents responsibility to make sure he is protected. If an adult chooses to not use a helmet that is their choice but a child relies on his parents to make competent choices for them

And if the parent is not competent?

So our parents were not properly caring people?

Maybe teach them how to stay ON their bikes?

[redir]

Those mountains look beautiful. Makes me want to climb again.

[Gothard]

Witcomb,
I am sorry to use profane language, but either you're a troll, or a complete, thorough, unwashed @sshole.

You display a total disdain for other people's fears, and gratitude that their (my) child remained safe and sound thanks to a small device, not even regarding the possible controversy.


I'm done with this thread.

[Mr Cabletwitch]

And if the parent is not competent?

So our parents were not properly caring people?

Maybe teach them how to stay ON their bikes?


My parents didn't have the information available to them that I do now to make the educated decision to put a helmet on my kid. Hell in the early 80s when I grew up helmets weren't even readily available I don't think.

Do you have kids? I will do anything in my power to keep my son from being hurt and buying him a $30 helmet and making him wear it is pretty much a no brainer. He isn't even three yet he can barely run without falling over how am I supposed to teach him not to fall off his bike its just an inevitable thing.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

A helmet thread that gets locked. Will be a first.

FWIW, both my kids wear a helmet, as do I, anytime they are on wheels, e.g. bikes, skates, scooters etc.

[benitosan1972]

Kids will be kids. Getting injured is a part of life. But if we can help as parents with a little protective precaution (bike helmet, skateboard pads, etc) that's a great thing, and even if our parents did not because that was not common practice or knowledge back in the (just like how everyone smoked in the 60's), does not warrant judgement, things are relative to the times. What is disturbing these days is how much some parents coddle/baby/spoil their children, rendering them helpless & ignorant. Parental life is so PC and socially pressured these days, if the parent is raising their kid with a balance of love, discipline, guidance, encouragement, and safety, they are doing fine by me.

[witcombusa]

My parents didn't have the information available to them that I do now to make the educated decision to put a helmet on my kid. Hell in the early 80s when I grew up helmets weren't even readily available I don't think.

Do you have kids? I will do anything in my power to keep my son from being hurt and buying him a $30 helmet and making him wear it is pretty much a no brainer. He isn't even three yet he can barely run without falling over how am I supposed to teach him not to fall off his bike its just an inevitable thing.

training wheels?

ride on the grass?

to early to be on a bike?

[Mr Cabletwitch]

training wheels?

ride on the grass?

to early to be on a bike?


He doesn't need training wheels.


He does ride in the grass.


There is no such thing as to young, hell I take him out on trails now.

If you don't have kids I can understand how you wouldn't understand.

[Kirk007]

My recollection from 20 years or so ago is that an infants skull isn't even fused into a solid structure until around 3 and the brain continues to grow until what, 7 or 8?

Having lived through my kid's youth and adolescence as a passionate cyclist who favors crazy stunts in jump parks, urban settings and downhill trails, all I can say is that I had many occasions to be thankful for his use of a helmet for most of his riding.

Of course learning how to ride is an important measure. But to even hint that a helmet is not a prudent thing for kids is ATMO at best a by-product of the anonymity of the Internet and boredom.

And for the childless and perhaps consequently less attuned to parental realities or for the hard-hearted Darwinists, such conduct could be painfully fiscally irresponsible - the day will come, if it hasn't already, when a parent will be sued under the theory that it is negligent not to require your kid to wear a helmet. And medical costs? Do you not think we all pay a price for others ills and misfortunes under our health care system?

Enjoy the ice cream George. Wish I was staring at that mountain.

Life is risky business. And that brings thrill and despair. This is about responsible risk management as a parent, not about an adult's predilection as to what to do with their own noggin.

[Ramjm_2000]

And if the parent is not competent?

So our parents were not properly caring people?

Maybe teach them how to stay ON their bikes?

What complete and utter douchbaggery. Teach them how to stay on a bike...really? Falling/accidents are part of the learning process.

[Louis]

This thread is a perfect example of some of the worst the Interwebs has to offer. Some guy happens to be happy that his 5-yr old son did not split his head on the sidewalk while riding his bike and proceeds to tell some acquaintances about it. Other folks are just so d@mned caught up with their own issues that they can't help but attack him for doing so. Nice.

Folks, that can't be a healthy way to live.

[redir]

FWIW I was joking and I thought the use of the emoticon would have made that clear.

[Wilkinson4]

This thread is a perfect example of some of the worst the Interwebs has to offer. Some guy happens to be happy that his 5-yr old son did not split his head on the sidewalk while riding his bike and proceeds to tell some acquaintances about it. Other folks are just so d@mned caught up with their own issues that they can't help but attack him for doing so. Nice.

Folks, that can't be a healthy way to live.

+a million Louis

I don't know if it is the hot summer or what but it just seems to me that threads in general have been taking a more negative path imo.

mIKE

[benitosan1972]

I think Gothard is being a good parent = helmet in 2012
I think my parents were good parents = no helmet in 1970's.
Everything is relative to the times, the individuals, circumstances.
We try to do the right thing, there will always be critics, just do your best?

*I've noticed alot of inflammatory/cross-talk/armchair QB'ing here lately, feels hostile at times? Forum feels volatile lately.

[Aaron O]

I'm sure my parents felt the same way when I went into a telephone pole head first, cracked my helmet and got up screaming about road rash. I'm with you Gothard and am glad your son is well!

[witcombusa]

Kids and it seems some parents think that a helmet equals invincibility.
I see it while skiing all the time. They take risks that they would not otherwise do because they are being taught "put on your helmet and you'll be safe". If they have already cracked 2 or 3 helmets by the time they are 5 years old, that is a problem. Perhaps more than just another new helmet is warranted?

[Fixed]

Cheers


Brain injuries are something nobody wants .

[Chris]

See...it IS a helmet thread.

You people just can't help yourselves.

Decide for yourself and let it be...

It wasn't until you decided to be a douche and make it one. The guy was just being grateful. You're the one who brought dogmatism into this thread. And beyond you're just giving us the suspicion that you are a moron, you go and give the advice to teach the kid to not fall off his bike and you leave no doubt. If you think it is possible to avoid every opportunity to fall off your bike then you know very little about this activity.

[akelman]

I don't know if it is the hot summer or what but it just seems to me that threads in general have been taking a more negative path imo.

This is 100% correct. Actually it's been this way for awhile now, it seems. And I'm no longer surprised at all when I find the same few people at the center of these storms over and over again.

It's a bit of a bummer, but it does seem like this small group of people is degrading the civility and thus the quality of conversation that was once the hallmark of this place. Put another way, I think spirited disagreements can be the spice of life -- or at least the spice that keeps online conversations flavorful. But some people here don't seem to be interested in conversing; they just want to stir the pot as a way of drawing attention to themselves.

[Aaron O]

This is 100% correct. Actually it's been this way for awhile now, it seems. And I'm no longer surprised at all when I find the same few people at the center of these storms over and over again.

It's a bit of a bummer, but it does seem like this small group of people is degrading the civility and thus the quality of conversation that was once the hallmark of this place. Put another way, I think spirited disagreements can be the spice of life -- or at least the spice that keeps online conversations flavorful. But some people here don't seem to be interested in conversing; they just want to stir the pot as a way of drawing attention to themselves.

I don't post much in the general area anymore and this is why. It's a shame because there are so many awesome people with insightful views, but if I want an argument I can call my sister, or my boss.

[akelman]

I don't post much in the general area anymore and this is why. It's a shame because there are so many awesome people with insightful views, but if I want an argument I can call my sister, or my boss.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up for me as well. I recognize that the lion's share of people here remain truly excellent. And I still have a lot to learn from a bunch of regular posters. But there are enough folks who just want to argue for the sake of arguing these days that I'm a lot quieter than I used to be. Which, I should add, is no great loss, as I never had that much to add in the first place.

[vqdriver]

i don't know if it's the forum in general. it's my impression that it's really just a few (or one) that kinda change the tone for the rest of us....

in any case, i appreciate these threads. it reminds me to emphasize the helmet rules with my kids, even when inconvenient. it doesn't take a lot of things for people to get hurt, just the one time knock to the head.

[akelman]

i don't know if it's the forum in general. it's my impression that it's really just a few (or one) that kinda change the tone for the rest of us....

in any case, i appreciate these threads. it reminds me to emphasize the helmet rules with my kids, even when inconvenient. it doesn't take a lot of things for people to get hurt, just the one time knock to the head.

I think it's a few folks, rather than just one. But your other point is more important: I, too, really appreciate these threads. Reading about a dad who's thrilled that his child is safe is uplifting stuff.

[BCS]

Kids and it seems some parents think that a helmet equals invincibility.
I see it while skiing all the time. They take risks that they would not otherwise do because they are being taught "put on your helmet and you'll be safe". If they have already cracked 2 or 3 helmets by the time they are 5 years old, that is a problem. Perhaps more than just another new helmet is warranted?

You can't be this stupid. Out of control skier/boarder runs into your kid. You wouldn't want Jr. in a helmet?

[Bob Loblaw]

I always am amused by the arguments against helmets. If people could just say, "I know the risks and I choose to go without," that would probably end the discussion.

There is a guy I ride with regularly who was taking some grief for rarely riding lidded, and he said "Have you ever ridden without one?". To which I replied, "Yes I have. Have you ever crashed without one?" He replied that he had and gotten stitches out of the deal. Now I take his side whenever it comes up. He is a grown-up and knows what he is doing.

He has no kids, btw. If he did he might feel differently.

BL

[christian]

I always am amused by the arguments against helmets. If people could just say, "I know the risks and I choose to go without," that would probably end the discussion.I've been riding 31 years and had one accident, while a close relative fell off a ladder and sustained a TBI. Empirically and statistically, riding a bicycle just isn't that dangerous. I wear a helmet 99.9% of the time, but I don't strictly think it's necessary.

BTW, "Put helmets on your kids!" sounds like a helmet thread. Exhortative thread titles with exclamation points would tend to do that.

"Put down the toilet seat!"
"Eat your broccoli!"
"Shut up!"

[rugbysecondrow]

Adults can make their own decisions based on how they assess risk, ability, danger and other factors. Children do not have this ability. It is partly why they don't drive until 16, drink legally until 21, buy tobacco until 18 etc. they lack that part of decision making. It is also why children are charged with crimes differently, we as a society recognize they generally lack that capability.

When they become adults, they can make their own decisions. Until then, any decision/argument an adult makes about his/her own safety is moot if they try to extend it to a child.

[christian]

When they become adults, they can make their own decisions. Until then, any decision/argument an adult makes about his/her own safety is moot if they try to extend it to a child.Unless it's their own child, of course.

[rugbysecondrow]

Unless it's their own child, of course.

To answer your question, nope, trying to relay the logic behind their adult decision/argument to that of their kids is invalid , but there decision as a parent might not be logical. Parents could let their kids ride without helmets, but that would be unwise as there is not a benefit gained but there is risk for loss. What is the logic?

Children do not comprehend risk the same way as adults. I am not in favor of dressing our kids up like robo-cop when they decide to ride their scooter, but I am also aware that brain injuries are very serious. I am also aware that children lack the skill and ability to make sound decisions in real time...that portion of their brain is still developing.

I guess I just don't understand what benefit there would be to not have your kids where a helmet? What is gained by doing that? It is like car seats, I never had them when I was a youth, but they are here now, so why not use them? What is gained by me not using them? Riding a bike and riding in a car, accidents can be catastrophic, much more than just walking, so why not use some protection.

It seems like wearing a helmet is not a losing proposition in any real way.

EDIT:

I am all for adults making their own choice just so long as I am not the one who has to wipe your ass or take care of your kids if something happens to you and you don't mind somebody else taking care of your wife... :banana:

[rwsaunders]

Any time that your kid sustains an injury, it's a tough event. When you had the opportunity to prevent an injury and you didn't, that would be an even tougher thing to live with.

[forrestw]

No, not a helmet thread, only a way to express my gratitude that my kid only has rash on the face instead of a cracked skull, which he very likely would have, were it not for the (now split) helmet.
I wonder how I made it to adult age without one...
Yeah, I didn't wear a helmet before age 23 or so, had one crash that worried my docs some.

Then again when my mom recently mentioned that their approach to putting up canned goods was 2 minutes of boiling and not eating the 2-3 quart bottles of tomatoes that exploded during the fall ... I think it's also pretty lucky I didn't die of botulin poisoning!

[Aaron O]

I've now had two incidents where I hit my head hard enough to damage the helmet and compress the foam. One was a car accident where I was struck by someone driving in the wrong lane and the other was as a teen who wasn't being careful enough. I don't know how bad the damage would have been without a helmet, but I know the helmet took substantial damage and in both cases I got up with no head injury.

As for the comment about cycling not being dangerous, I think this is unrealistic, based on my experiences and the numbers of people I know who have had accidents or been hurt. Life is dangerous, but let's not kid ourselves, we are somewhat at risk...more in some areas than others.

The big question i see is, as a modification of Pascal's wager, what is the downside of wearing a helmet? Nominal weight? I don't see a real downside to it. Unlike Pascal's wager, there really isn't much of a cost to wearing it.

[christian]

Parents could let their kids ride without helmets, but that would be unwise as there is not a benefit gained but there is risk for loss. What is the logic?Using this logic, you'd have your children play in the basement under a UV light, rather than go outside, to prevent the "risk" of stranger abduction. And you'd never shower, for fear of slipping and falling. All of life is a series of risk assessments (which admittedly people generally stink at). The fact is, bicycling is not that dangerous.

Here's a hypothetical for instance:

You take your three-year old to the park. Some neighborhood four and five year-old kids are there riding Razor scooters. They talk to your kid and offer to let him try the scooter. Your kid wants to try scooting. You don't have a helmet with you. Do you let him?

[cfox]

Kids and it seems some parents think that a helmet equals invincibility.
I see it while skiing all the time. They take risks that they would not otherwise do because they are being taught "put on your helmet and you'll be safe". If they have already cracked 2 or 3 helmets by the time they are 5 years old, that is a problem. Perhaps more than just another new helmet is warranted?
I love this old chestnut...the dumbest argument for not wearing a helmet, ever. No one feels invincible or takes extra risks because they are wearing a helmet. Really. Helmets are so light and comfortable these days, I forget I have the thing on. I don't give a single ***** if people or their kids wear helmets, I just laugh when I hear the silly justifications. Be honest; the only reason not to wear one is that you think you look cool on your bike (which you don't, you look fat and dumb on your bike like everyone else).

[Mr Cabletwitch]

Using this logic, you'd have your children play in the basement under a UV light, rather than go outside, to prevent the "risk" of stranger abduction. And you'd never shower, for fear of slipping and falling. All of life is a series of risk assessments (which admittedly people generally stink at). The fact is, bicycling is not that dangerous.

Here's a hypothetical for instance:

You take your three-year old to the park. Some neighborhood four and five year-old kids are there riding Razor scooters. They talk to your kid and offer to let him try the scooter. Your kid wants to try scooting. You don't have a helmet with you. Do you let him?

Not unless they let him borrow a helmet too. I'll do everything I can to protect my little guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGdfwhwvwoI&feature=plcp

He is pretty good on his balance bike but he still falls on occasion and whats the harm in him wearing a helmet.

It is up to the parent to decide ultimately. I don't believe anybody including the gov't has any right to tell me what my child should or shouldn't wear as far as protection, but I for one will protect him anyway I can.

[fiamme red]

I rode bikes without a helmet until I was an adult and somehow survived without cracking my skull. What amazes me more is the "jungle gyms" I used to play on as a kid, hanging upside down high above the ground. There's no question that that was dangerous.

I hear this all the time: "I cracked my helmet, but luckily I was wearing it, or I'd have cracked my skull." It doesn't follow. I've had accidents where I cracked my helmet, but if I hadn't been wearing one, I believe my skull would have been quite all right. Of course, I'd rather be wearing a helmet than not if I crashed and my head hit something.

[rugbysecondrow]

A). Answer the question...why not wear one?

B). Your response is not even close to reasonable.

C). Maybe, I don't know what I would do, it might be dependent on which of my kids were asking.



Using this logic, you'd have your children play in the basement under a UV light, rather than go outside, to prevent the "risk" of stranger abduction. And you'd never shower, for fear of slipping and falling. All of life is a series of risk assessments (which admittedly people generally stink at). The fact is, bicycling is not that dangerous.

Here's a hypothetical for instance:

You take your three-year old to the park. Some neighborhood four and five year-old kids are there riding Razor scooters. They talk to your kid and offer to let him try the scooter. Your kid wants to try scooting. You don't have a helmet with you. Do you let him?

[fiamme red]

A). Answer the question...why not wear one?

B). Your response is not even close to reasonable.

C). Maybe, I don't know what I would do, it might be dependent on which of my kids were asking.There was recently a child in my building who was running in the park, and tripped and hit his head on the ground. He had to have stitches, but luckily there was no concussion.

Should his parents have him wear a helmet whenever he goes outside to play?

[fourflys]

glad to hear the young one is ok!

Both of my girls know they better not even climb on their bikes without a helmet on... AND I know I better set the example by wearing mine as well... BTW- glad I did after cracking a Lazer all the way through...

there were lots of things I did as a youth that was just plain stupid and I'm really lucky I didn't come out worse... as a parent my job is to ensure my kids are as protected from stuff as possible...

[93legendti]

In the 60's, when i was a kid, I split my head open as the result of a bike fall. We wear helmets here. My kids are younger than 10. I don't even have to tell my kids- they get their helmets, put them on and then ask if they can go riding.

My daughter did an endo after sliding off the lip on our driveway next to the grass and landed on a concrete pad where the storm drain cover is. She only skinned her knee.

If helmets aren't your thing so be it. We wear helmets at our house. They are also required by law...

[vqdriver]

how in the world is this thread alive??

the op's kid cracked his helmet. CRACKED his helmet. clearly this isn't a hypothetical we're talking about. this is an event that actually happened and he's sharing it with us for our benefit. if it wasn't for the helmet, his kid would have a nice bump (or worse) on his head.

you don't have to do anything you don't want to and justify it any way you want to, but why would you attempt to push your justification against safety equipment on others???

[rugbysecondrow]

There was recently a child in my building who was running in the park, and tripped and hit his head on the ground. He had to have stitches, but luckily there was no concussion.

Should his parents have him wear a helmet whenever he goes outside to play?

Just because a person is injured in scenario A does not mean that one ought not take precautions in scenario B. That makes no sense.

Again, with meaning, why would you not want your child to wear a helmet?

[BCS]

Just because a person is injured in scenario A does not mean that one ought not take precautions in scenario B. That makes no sense.

Again, with meaning, why would you not want your child to wear a helmet?

+1. Seriously
Just put your kids in helmets and STFU

[christian]

A). Answer the question...why not wear one?Because, empirically, riding bicycles just isn't that dangerous. I climb ladders without wearing helmets. I glue tubulars without wearing respirators. I even cut cucumbers without chain mail gloves. Life is a series of risks; you evaluate your risks, you make your decisions, and you take your chances. My kids wear helmets 99+% of the time, because we have them, and they don't mind wearing them (and undoubtedly because we model the behavior). But it's a far leap from that to say that parents who don't insist on kids wearing helmets is "illogical." It's no less illogical than letting kids shower, rather than wiping them down with wet rags. It's simply that the cultural standard of the Paceline forum is that you have to wear helmets 100% of the time.

B). Your response is not even close to reasonable.My quote is more than reasonable; it is specifically apropos. Americams live in hysterical fear of stranger abduction, a scenario which is statistically absolutely remote. This has significant impacts on children being allowed to play, unsupervised, outside, which frankly, is a lot of what childhood should be about.

C). Maybe, I don't know what I would do, it might be dependent on which of my kids were asking.So letting one of them ride without a helmet wouldn't, inherently, be bad parenting? Or you'd just, situationally, be a bad parent?

[christian]

I hear this all the time: "I cracked my helmet, but luckily I was wearing it, or I'd have cracked my skull." It doesn't follow.Hey, it's 62% of all threads on the NYCC message board summarized into a haiku.

[rugbysecondrow]

So, you evaluated the risk and determined that your kids wear helmets. That says more than all the other background noise about showers, UV lights, hysterics and body snatchers from space.

To say "riding bicycles just isn't that dangerous" is not a good enough reason for me to not have them wear a helmet. It is not the riding that concerns me but the head being propelled unprotected to the ground.





Because, empirically, riding bicycles just isn't that dangerous. I climb ladders without wearing helmets. I glue tubulars without wearing respirators. I even cut cucumbers without chain mail gloves. Life is a series of risks; you evaluate your risks, you make your decisions, and you take your chances. My kids wear helmets 99+% of the time, because we have them, and they don't mind wearing them (and undoubtedly because we model the behavior). But it's a far leap from that to say that parents who don't insist on kids wearing helmets is "illogical." It's no less illogical than letting kids shower, rather than wiping them down with wet rags. It's simply that the cultural standard of the Paceline forum is that you have to wear helmets 100% of the time.

My quote is more than reasonable; it is specifically apropos. Americams live in hysterical fear of stranger abduction, a scenario which is statistically absolutely remote. This has significant impacts on children being allowed to play, unsupervised, outside, which frankly, is a lot of what childhood should be about.

So letting one of them ride without a helmet wouldn't, inherently, be bad parenting? Or you'd just, situationally, be a bad parent?

[redir]

*sigh ok it's officially a helmet thread now so...

Any time that your kid sustains an injury, it's a tough event. When you had the opportunity to prevent an injury and you didn't, that would be an even tougher thing to live with.

I wonder when the time will come when you bring your kid to the ER because he crashed without a helmet and Child Protective Services takes them away?

I love this old chestnut...the dumbest argument for not wearing a helmet, ever. No one feels invincible or takes extra risks because they are wearing a helmet. Really. Helmets are so light and comfortable these days, I forget I have the thing on. I don't give a single ***** if people or their kids wear helmets, I just laugh when I hear the silly justifications. Be honest; the only reason not to wear one is that you think you look cool on your bike (which you don't, you look fat and dumb on your bike like everyone else).

See just attacking another poster is really not affective argumentative techniques. But to answer your question and others as to why at least in my case? I've got a fun little disease called psoriasis and it's all over my head and I have to itch my head every 15-20 seconds. Yeah I think I look real cool riding a bike scratching my head like a monkey all the time. Helmets make it VERY uncomfortable for me to ride. The only time I wear one is when I race or train in groups (mostly so I don't have to be chastised.)

There actually have been some interesting studies that show that people who wear helmets take more risks riding. You can search for them. They may not be perfect but they are interesting. Also there is definitely a trend where people just think that if you wear a helmet you will be safe which is just not the case. Helmets for children are perfect though, especially children not old enough to ride real fast, more at a walking pace. Because that's exactly what helmet tests show is that they are affective at walking pace. They are great protection for cuts and lacerations but not so great at impact. Just look at the tests done it's really a joke. A full face motorcycle helmet is really the only thing that's gonna offer you some protection.

This was an interesting clip on the topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS9UhHf7GsQ

This BTW is a very common scene in the rest of the world, taken in Amsterdam.

http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cycling-amsterdam.jpg

[Fixed]

In the 60's, when i was a kid, I split my head open as the result of a bike fall. We wear helmets here. My kids are younger than 10. I don't even have to tell my kids- they get their helmets, put them on and then ask if they can go riding.

My daughter did an endo after sliding off the lip on our driveway next to the grass and landed on a concrete pad where the storm drain cover is. She only skinned her knee.

If helmets aren't your thing so be it. We wear helmets at our house. They are also required by law...

You are a good dad and a gentleman
Cheers

[Gothard]

Now I wish I had never posted this.

My point was to express gratitude for my kid's minor injuries, after watching him SLAM on the ground face first.

Not a helmet thread

Not calling for nasty, demeaning remarks from that @sshole Witcomb (yes I mean it and wil stand by that remark).

Only celebrating my hapiness for my luck on that particular day.

I guess this forum is no longer the place for that. Wonder where that went.

Mods please close this. I am gone.

[PQJ]

And if the parent is not competent?

So our parents were not properly caring people?

Maybe teach them how to stay ON their bikes?

You'd be well-advised to wear a helmet yourself, no matter how good (you think) your skills are. Just sayin, as they say.

[christian]

So, you evaluated the risk and determined that your kids wear helmets. That says more than all the other background noise about showers, UV lights, hysterics and body snatchers from space. Nah, my three-year old asked for the Spiderman helmet at the store, and it came with a toot-toot horn for the bars, too. I couldn't resist. Was like 1/10th the price of a Giro, too! :)

[gdw]

"Now I wish I had never posted this."

You should have known better.

I'm glad your kid is alright but you really screwed up when you mentioned that Lance gave him the helmet....

[redir]

Nah, my three-year old asked for the Spiderman helmet at the store, and it came with a toot-toot horn for the bars, too. I couldn't resist. Was like 1/10th the price of a Giro, too! :)

Nutcase helmets have some cool designs for kids, especially older ones who may not want to wear one.

http://www.nutcasehelmets.com/collections/street/gen2

[palincss]

The same way the rest of us did.

Riding a bike is not particularly hazardous.

Now driving your car is a completely different situation! Do you make him wear a helmet when you take him in your car?

And now you have turned it into a "helmet thread."

[palincss]

However, no matter what, my kid cracked (as in split in two) 2 helmets so far. Both crashes would have sent him to the hospital with at least a concussion, at worst a fractured skull.


Maybe you might suggest he stop trying to climb up curbs the way he's doing. Better to prevent the accident in the first place.

[93legendti]

You are a good dad and a gentleman
Cheers

Thanks buddy. You too.

[93legendti]

Now I wish I had never posted this.

My point was to express gratitude for my kid's minor injuries, after watching him SLAM on the ground face first.

Not a helmet thread

Not calling for nasty, demeaning remarks from that @sshole Witcomb (yes I mean it and wil stand by that remark).

Only celebrating my hapiness for my luck on that particular day.

I guess this forum is no longer the place for that. Wonder where that went.

Mods please close this. I am gone.
I'm glad your kid is ok.
I'm glad you posted.
Ignore those who try to make this about something else.

[Wayne77]

My first ever (and hopefully last) contribution to a "helmet thread" that was never intended to be a "helmet thread" (apologies to the OP)

1) Re the oft quoted stat that supports the statement that riding a bike is "not that dangerous". That stat, wherever or however derived, is based on the total cycling population, ie anyone who ever throws a leg over a bike. We are not representative of the overall population! We ride faster, farther, are more exposed to traffic, road hazards, etc than the overall population. (Obviously that risk goes up even more if you narrow the "enthusiast" popultion further to those who have poor bike handling skils, do stupid things, ride one handed with one eye closed on a f@ster backwards bike, in traffic, while listening to Snoop Dog on the iPod, etc etc etc).

Kids just learning to ride bikes are also not representative of the overall bike riding population. They are a much higher risk category. Kids just do not have the same awareness of their surroundings that adults have, and they simply do not have a full grasp of what is on the line if they decide to jump a curb into the street, do cool swervy moves, get "sweet air" on the neighbor's mound of dirt, etc. They need to be taught obviously...but props to any parent that puts a lid on the kiddos.

2) Re the statement that people ride/drive with less care when equiped with safety devices like helmets, seatbelts, etc. Why is this such an enlightening fact? People would generally drive/ride with more care if they felt more vulnerable (ie not belted in, exposed noggin, etc) so why wouldn't the converse be true? Did someone actually commission a study to figure this out? Does this suggest that the elimination of certain safety precautions against events that may result in injury (however rare they may occur) would actually INCREASE the safety of an activity? Of course not.

Life is full of risky activities. Everyone talks the rate of occurence, but not the severity given an occurence. We all know the overall chances of dying in a plane crash are extremely small, when compared to chances of death due to other factors. But if someone is IN a plane that is crashing, the chances of dying are extremely high. That's the kicker. Wearing a helmet is not about reducing the risk of cycling accidents, it's reducing the severity of injury if one's noggin impacts the pavement at 20 miles per hour if that person is IN a bike accident. My own head hit the asphalt 5 years ago at more than 20 mph. That incident split the front center area of my white Bell Sweep. I have no doubt that helmet kept the same thing from happening to my forehead / frontal area of my skull. I have no idea what that type of injury would have done to me, but the thought of my bare forehead hitting the asphalt without a helmet is scary.

[christian]

Life is full of risky activities. Everyone talks the rate of occurence, but not the severity given an occurence. We all know the overall chances of dying in a plane crash are extremely small, when compared to chances of death due to other factors. But if someone is IN a plane that is crashing, the chances of dying are extremely high. That's the kicker.No, that's the logical fallacy. You're begging the question.

You are making the assumption is that you will inevitably (1) crash your bicycle and (2) hit your head (severely enough to cause injury). Under that scenario, it makes (obvious) sense to wear a helmet, or better yet, stop riding bicycles.

Your argument is akin to saying, if I knew with 100% certainty that this plane would crash, I wouldn't board it. I suppose that's reasonable, but it doesn't follow that people should use that as their criteria for whether it's generally safe to fly.

[PQJ]

/\/\/\ There are 2 kinds of "cyclists" (to be distinguished from people on a bike) in this world - those who have crashed, and those who will.

[palincss]

2) Re the statement that people ride/drive with less care when equiped with safety devices like helmets, seatbelts, etc. Why is this such an enlightening fact? People would generally drive/ride with more care if they felt more vulnerable (ie not belted in, exposed noggin, etc) so why wouldn't the converse be true? Did someone actually commission a study to figure this out? Does this suggest that the elimination of certain safety precautions against events that may result in injury (however rare they may occur) would actually INCREASE the safety of an activity? Of course not.


We had cars with spear-you-in-the-chest steering columns and solid iron smash-your-skull dashboards and no seatbelts. People didn't drive any more cautiously then than they drive now.

[palincss]

/\/\/\ There are 2 kinds of "cyclists" (to be distinguished from people on a bike) in this world - those who have crashed, and those who will.

One individual could belong to both those categories, you know...

[SoCalSteve]

Ok, thanks to everyone for posting. I have sent PMs to certain individuals.

Gothard, you are a great guy and an asset to our community. Please continue to post about anything and everything. Dont let one or two individuals sour your time here.

Closing this one ( maybe should have done it sooner).

Thanks!