$3K bike

[flydhest]

So, a buddy of mine is going to get a bike. I have talked to a couple of people here about used bikes/frames/components because my original plan was to help him into something good, but cheap, so he could evaluate his likelihood to actually ride. Well, he and his wife are both "dive in with both feet" people and she gave me two things, a mandate to get him a good bike and a $3K budget--all in, including tax (but not including shoes and clothes).

So, why shouldn't I push him to get a CIII with a Campy Centaur level build kit?

What do you all think should be done with $3K? Used is out, apparently (their preferences) and of course some sort of fitting will be done. He's mid-30s, athletic, has done some reasonable amounts of mtn. biking and is an avid runner. I have Centaur components on my CSi and they work just as well as the Record stuff on my Legend. I might have him try out some Shimano stuff to see how it fits his hands, of course, but the Doctor and I are biased toward Campy and he will be riding with us lots and, should it be necessary, borrowing wheels, etc.

[dbrk]

Honesly, flyd, a CIII with a Centaur kit will likely not meet the 3K total. The frame at $1495 and Ouzo Pro at $385; a Centaur kit is about $1300. That's no tax and no labor costs. I suppose you could cut back on the fork and _maybe_ make the number.

Odds are that your pal will fit a stock frame since, say, 95% of everyone would be just as happy on a well-designed stock frame as on a custom. I'd look for a close-out. Here are some closeout ideas:
Pegoretti 8:30AM
Pegoretti Palosanto
Rivendell Romulus (easily set up as a "standard", "modern" road bike)
Merckx Race
Pinarello Marvel
Look (various models!)
All of these bikes ride just fine and are plenty of cycle that will come in under 3K total. OR, you need a dealer who is a pal and discounts you that last $200 or so over the mark (as I see it).

Used is really the best shot because, well, look at the CSi that you have that you got used...

dbrk

[andy mac]

would a fierte work??

[eddief]

you might have a look at gvhbikes.com. There's a boatload of $3k options available there. Competitive cyclist has some great deals on Pegoretti Palosantos and a bunch of other year end deals.

[yeehawfactor]

not to be THAT guy on the boards, but what would be wrong with a trek madone/cannondale r5000/ or other analogue? ultegra 10, rides real nice, will likely fit well enough for a beginner, and most importantly he can easily sell the bike in a few years and buy a super nice serotta. i'm not against newbies having custom bikes, but thinking how much i've changed since i started riding a custom bike from back then would be much different than a custom would be now.

[djg]

A fierte seems like a perfectly good suggestion, but it seems that all sorts of things would fit within budget. Carl Strong will do a custom steel frame for 1200 bucks and should build up a Centaur equipped bike within your friend's price range. He also tends to have winter sales, which might make things even cheaper (or enable some upgrades). How much better can he do? For alternatives, I believe that John Slawta will do a custom steel landshark, built with ultegra or centaur, within that 3k budget, and that Curtlo may be even less expensive. Landshark offers endless paint possibilities, from traditional panels to tie-die, included in the basic frame price, something that may really stand out (or not), depending on the friend's preferences. The TIG welded Waterford may be on budget and a Gunnar certainly is. In stock, a Pegoretti Palosanto is probably manageable, as would be an 8:30. Various CF offerings from Look might be on-budget, especially as the frames go on sale in the winter. For example, 2k buys this, at least in a 55:

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=KG451+Bike+Ultegra%2DCosmos&vendorCode=LOOK&major=1&minor=35

There's also the basic question what appeals to the friend. Does he want to walk into a shop and test ride something? Does he want a Trek like Lance rode (and, presumably, still rides recreationally)? Trek, obviously, has bikes under 3k, including CF and AL framed bikes, "race" geometry bikes and the pilot series. LeMond has all sorts of things, and after riding a fillmore for a season I'm really liking the way their latest steel frames ride (although, obviously, in fixie form this is unlikely what your friend wants). LeMond sells a very nice looking bike called the Sarthe with an OX-Platinum tubed frame and Veloce 10 for about 1500 bucks--I have to think that there's the possibility of moving up a group level and tacking on a cool set of wheels while still staying under budget. I've seen Litespeed ti bikes all built up under 3k (they seem to start at about 2). Merlin may be a little too high, but they seem to go on sale in winter so who knows? Canny has all sorts of things, well-equipped, under 3k and they may well appeal to him. Frankly, if you're willing to kill an afternoon with the friend, it might be useful taking him to one or two local shops to see what he seems to want. Plainly, a bike has to fit. It ought, too, to be suitable for its intended purpose. But for many folks, once those basics have been addressed, the bike that works best is the one that floats the boat.

[Johny]

As an economist, you have a responsibility to get him a used bike (may be actually like new). $3K is a lot of money for an excellent used bike but not for a new bike.

[eddief]

I don't think anyone, so far, has suggested custom. But perhaps a more boutique (i hate that word) builder where you get some soul and get to pick your build kit.

[slowgoing]

Honesly, flyd, a CIII with a Centaur kit will likely not meet the 3K total. The frame at $1495 and Ouzo Pro at $385; a Centaur kit is about $1300. That's no tax and no labor costs. I suppose you could cut back on the fork and _maybe_ make the number.

You'd get a little bit closer to your goal price with an ouzo pro or ouzo comp off ebay. $385 is a lot for an ouzo pro. So what if the paint doesn't match? Nothing wrong with a plain old carbon weave fork.

[eddief]

$265

[Wayne77]

CIII - $1495
Complete Centaur Build Kit from GVHbikes.com - $1225
Ouzo from Aebike - $265
Join the Serotta family - Priceless.

Total: $2985 excl tax & shipping

I say go for it!
:banana:

[Sandy]

The CIII with Centaur or Ultegra 105 (or Ultegra) would be an excellent choice. Maybe some NOS 9 speed Campy or Shimano can still be had at some reduced prices. I think that if you tried real hard, you could build the bike very close to $3,000, including custom fit.

I agree (oh boy) with your choice. I will even see what prices I can get.

A CIII is simply the best deal going for a custom Serotta. The Fierte is real nice too.

One vote for the CIII.


Sandy

[Wayne77]

Or..Build this baby up with Chorus for $2735 or Centaur for $2285:

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Compact+Pro+Frame+without+Fork&vendorCode=GIOS&major=1&minor=1

GIOS blue is puurdy. I've always wanted to build one of these baby's up.

[Frank]

As an economist, you have a responsibility to get him a used bike (may be actually like new). $3K is a lot of money for an excellent used bike but not for a new bike.

I am all for folks spending all the money they are comfortable with on their bikes, and Johny may just be pointing out that $3000 for a new high end bike at a bike shop is not unusual, but I am not sure I will ever be able (mentally not financially) to pay $3000 for a bike, new or used, of any kind. There are just so many great frames available in the $200-600 range that I see a very nice new bike costing much less than $3000.

Am I alone in this way of thinking, or are there other "bargain buyers" who think $3000 is stilll a lot of money for a new bike?

[slowgoing]

Another option is a Colnago Master X Light. This might save a couple of hundred dollars. A few places still have some of last year's model in stock in limited sizes, the last year with steel chain and seat stays. It ties my Atlanta for most fun bike ever - they're just as fun and comfortable on the flats, the Atlanta climbs better and the Colnago is more stable on descents, probably because of its slack head tube angle.

[vaxn8r]

not to be THAT guy on the boards, but what would be wrong with a trek madone/cannondale r5000/ or other analogue? ultegra 10, rides real nice, will likely fit well enough for a beginner, and most importantly he can easily sell the bike in a few years and buy a super nice serotta. i'm not against newbies having custom bikes, but thinking how much i've changed since i started riding a custom bike from back then would be much different than a custom would be now.
I agree. On a $3K budget I'd get a Caad8 with DA10 for $2,600 and if the extra $400 was burning a hole in my pocket upgrade the wheels, get a second set of wheels or get (1 pair) of Assos bibs.

[Climb01742]

my 2 cents would be...spend an afternoon at a good shop and have your friend ride a bunch of bikes, steel, alu, ti, carbon, the gamut. see what floats his boat. at this time of year, i'd guess some pretty sweet bikes would be on sale. see what sort of "ride" characteristics he gets jazzed about.

[Ozz]

I would not rule out used quite yet...especially for a Ti frame.

Do you have a guess as to the size he might need? Dave T. has a screaming deal on a Legend in the classified if he's 6" to 6'2" or there abouts....

[Bruce H.]

what would a steel spectrum run nowadays. terrific bike and if cost is under 3000. you have one of the best.
Bruce H.

[andy mac]

i know i am preaching to the choir...

having being 'fitted' by a LBS for a trek 5200 a few years back when i was getting back into riding and having to sell it because it didn't fit, spend some of that 3K getting measured by someone trustworthy.

what he thinks feels good may not be right.

[Johny]

what would a steel spectrum run nowadays. terrific bike and if cost is under 3000. you have one of the best.
Bruce H.

I think $2400 for frame/fork only.

Edit: headset, frame pump and bottle are also included.

[flydhest]

Excellent.

I'm glad to see I was sufficiently provocative. I have little concern that the fitting/measuring will be done well. I am planning on going to several of the bike shops in the area to see what is available. Used is definitely out. Just the preferences of this couple. I appreciate the value of used, but I've got 4 bikes. Neither here nor there, as it ain't my money. This couple isn't hurting for dough. Part of their thinking is they are about to buy a house, our neighborhood has been among the "***??? It sold for how much?" areas, so they're staring straight at an $800K outlay in the next month. $3K is less than rounding error.

I'm excited about exploring what's currently available in bike shops, as well, so it should be fun. I'll report back.

Keep the comments coming.

[justinf]

"Am I alone in this way of thinking, or are there other "bargain buyers" who think $3000 is stilll a lot of money for a new bike?"

I'm with you Frank. Then again, you and I have similar tastes in older steel frames. I love finding a great deal out of someone's garage or collection that's really low mileage (for like 1/3 or 1/4 original cost).

[flydhest]

I reckon $3K is a lot of money, but "a lot" is, as has been discussed here, in the eyes of the beholder.

[deechee]

after getting tboned by a car last week, I'd have to say go for cheaper components and make sure you get a serotta fork and the owners club coverage. If it weren't for that I'd be super depressed right now.

[Dr. Doofus]

ridley pegasus/centaur

gunnar roadie/ centaur

pegoretti palosanto/ centaur

merckx race/ centaur

rock lobster steel/centaur

desalvo zona/ centaur

kish zona/ centaur

trek 2300 frame/fork/ centaur (seriously...its a good bike)

dead doof's old 59cm giordana/ centaur

[Fixed]

I am all for folks spending all the money they are comfortable with on their bikes, and Johny may just be pointing out that $3000 for a new high end bike at a bike shop is not unusual, but I am not sure I will ever be able (mentally not financially) to pay $3000 for a bike, new or used, of any kind. There are just so many great frames available in the $200-600 range that I see a very nice new bike costing much less than $3000.

Am I alone in this way of thinking, or are there other "bargain buyers" who think $3000 is stilll a lot of money for a new bike?
Bro I agree but if the cat has 3 grand to spend let him spend it.i.m.h.o. Cheers :beer:

[gdw]

I love people who decide to take up a new sport and buy top of the line gear right off. In a year or two we'll be able to buy his bike on Ebay for a fraction of its value if he decides cycling isn't for him. :D

[JeffreyG]

2006 Cannondale Six13 Pro 1 w/ Dura Ace, MSRP $2999.99. Now what to do with the extra penny?

[Jeremy]

How about a Gunnar Roadie OS2 w/ Alpha Q EX fork

Frameset: $1000.00
Dura-Ace 10sp build kit: $1891.00 (Excel Sports)

Jeremy

[flydhest]

I love people who decide to take up a new sport and buy top of the line gear right off. In a year or two we'll be able to buy his bike on Ebay for a fraction of its value if he decides cycling isn't for him. :D

and all of mine because his wife will kick my butt for not having him ride more :p

[bluesea]

Your friend's atheltic background makes him a good candidate for a new 3k Serotta. It seems that pride of ownership can sometimes be a positve factor in motivation, and it may very well be the case here. IMO 3k is an excellent starting point for a new rider with a mature mind, and if he is still serious in a year or two, he'll be ready for a new frame to accomodate his evolution.

[flydhest]

bluesea,
I was with you until the last sentence. The number of folks I know who "need" a bike better than the $3K mark is very, very small. You're dead on about the first part though, he's been athletic for a long time, knows that gear matters a lot up to a certain point, and isn't afraid to pay for quality. I reckon at $3K, he could be using this bike for a long, long time.

[Orin]

What would I do with $3k now?

Well, I already have a Legend... A used Legend plus Centaur kit should easily be doable for $3k.

Otherwise, what bikes have I been riding this year? Most on the Rambouillet as it's set up for rain and rando. Next comes the Legend - good weather and hills. Finally the Cervelo Dual TT bike for when I want to go really fast! All three bikes are under $3k, the Dual under $2k. Of course, it depends on how much you pay for the Legend frame/fork.

For a road bike now, I'd be very tempted by the Cervelo R2.5 Chorus ($3099). A Soloist Centaur is $1999, but not different enough to the Dual for _me_.

Orin.

[Johny]

Get a Kirk (non-terraplane and non-fancy painting for ~$1950). The Centaur kit can be had for less than $1k from good ebay sellers (find a good ebay retailer and directly buy from him/her outside of ebay).

[JohnS]

bluesea,
I was with you until the last sentence. The number of folks I know who "need" a bike better than the $3K mark is very, very small. You're dead on about the first part though, he's been athletic for a long time, knows that gear matters a lot up to a certain point, and isn't afraid to pay for quality. I reckon at $3K, he could be using this bike for a long, long time.
I agree. I'd say that 98% of the people on this forum (me included), can't ride to the level of their bike.

[Serotta PETE]

NEW


2005 Serotta Fierte Steel with Kestrel EMS fork and our standard Ultegra 10 build kit. $2399.00

[SoCalSteve]

Check out their website...Some great deals on frames, builds and complete bikes...

You can pick up a Landshark (which happenes to be a great riding bike!) with Dura Ace 10 built for about that amount of $$$.

Just 1 mans opinion...

Steve

[Wayne77]

I agree. I'd say that 98% of the people on this forum (me included), can't ride to the level of their bike.

I certainly can't. In fact, I hope I never have a bike that I can ride to, and exceed its limits - I hope my bikes will always be able to handle whatever I can dish out (within reason of course). I like having something with a nice wide margin... especially when decending. :rolleyes: Of course with my handling skills, most bikes are quite sufficient for me :D

[Johny]

I agree. I'd say that 98% of the people on this forum (me included), can't ride to the level of their bike.

So how many percentage of people here can ride to the level of the coming MeiVici? :p

[Ken Robb]

I have to vote with the group that thinks a production bike around $1500 would be smart. When I started road riding a few years ago I bought several bikes new and used that were really not right for me though they all "fit me" by some standards. With experience on these I came to a better understanding of what I like. Because these were relatively new production bikes they were easy to sell for 2/3 what I paid for the new ones and I got almost all of my money back on the ones that I bought used. After the first big hit of depreciation from "new" to "used" they don't decline much in value for a long time if they are kept nice.

I think most custom frames would take a bigger decline in value if they have to be sold used than stock bikes do.
It seems to me that, as an example, one of theleft-over LeMonds that can be had w/Ultegra Triple group around $1500 would be a great place to start (and maybe keep).

[zap]

I second that.

[mavic1010]

I'm a little confused with the riding to the level of the bike?? Does this mean that Ron Kiefel's skills are being wasted on a CIII versus an Ottrott ST?? Or if you can't dunk like a professional basketball player you should't wear Jordans??

People buy what they can afford...and certainly not based on their athletic prowess....

I'd love to go into a bike store and have someone say..."I'm sorry, but you ain't gonna ride the bike fast enough, please look at a cheaper bike".....

[Wayne77]

I have to vote with the group that thinks a production bike around $1500 would be smart. When I started road riding a few years ago I bought several bikes new and used that were really not right for me though they all "fit me" by some standards. With experience on these I came to a better understanding of what I like. Because these were relatively new production bikes they were easy to sell for 2/3 what I paid for the new ones and I got almost all of my money back on the ones that I bought used. After the first big hit of depreciation from "new" to "used" they don't decline much in value for a long time if they are kept nice.

I think most custom frames would take a bigger decline in value if they have to be sold used than stock bikes do.
It seems to me that, as an example, one of theleft-over LeMonds that can be had w/Ultegra Triple group around $1500 would be a great place to start (and maybe keep).

Good advice. OTOH it sounds like these people have some money to burn. They may be somewhat brand concious. Its like someone with extra dough but is smart enough not to go too crazy from the get go. So they want a "budget" BMW - A 3 series would be perfect. The Serotta "brand" in this case might be ideal. Fortunately, Serotta also means quality (Unlike "Bose", another brand with cachet that is anything but quality...the word "crap" comes to mind)

So I'll cast another vote for Serotta's 3 series, namely the "Colorado 3 series" :banana:

[JohnS]

I'm a little confused with the riding to the level of the bike?? Does this mean that Ron Kiefel's skills are being wasted on a CIII versus an Ottrott ST?? Or if you can't dunk like a professional basketball player you should't wear Jordans??

People buy what they can afford...and certainly not based on their athletic prowess....

I'd love to go into a bike store and have someone say..."I'm sorry, but you ain't gonna ride the bike fast enough, please look at a cheaper bike".....
I meant that in reply to some posts that seemed to hint that you couldn't get a decent bike for $3000 or that a bike in that price range was beneath their dignity.

[JohnS]

So how many percentage of people here can ride to the level of the coming MeiVici? :p
none. :p

[bluesea]

bluesea,
I was with you until the last sentence. The number of folks I know who "need" a bike better than the $3K mark is very, very small. You're dead on about the first part though, he's been athletic for a long time, knows that gear matters a lot up to a certain point, and isn't afraid to pay for quality. I reckon at $3K, he could be using this bike for a long, long time.

flydhest,
I guess I did not explain myself clearly. When I stated that he might want or need another frame in a year or two, I did not specifically mean a more expensive bike because he would then be a much improved rider and would need a better bike. On the contrary, I was thinking in terms of the greater physical flexibilty that he would attain in a season or two of riding with a group of experienced riders. His knowledge of the bike, the physiology of riding, and of his own body and personal preferences may very well lead to a desire for a new frame. Not necessarily, but it is a good possibility based upon the degree of his dedication and his passion. My guess would be that very few new riders are lucky enough to get a perfect fit with their first frame.

[SoCalSteve]

is that much better than an Ottrott? (price non withstanding)

And, if you do, please tell me why you think this is so.

Thanks,

Steve

[vaxn8r]

is that much better than an Ottrott? (price non withstanding)

And, if you do, please tell me why you think this is so.

Thanks,

Steve
Of course it'll be better because it cost so much more. Duh!

Actually it'll be better because it'll be 100% carpet fiber.

Maybe it'll be better because Ben say sit is.

:D :D

[Serotta PETE]

I'd love to go into a bike store and have someone say..."I'm sorry, but you gonna ride the bike fast enough, and we at Cyclesport have a new one for you".....

Mavic 1010, Mike says he has just the bike for you :bike:

[oldmill]

Flydhest - You've already gotten some great suggestions, and this one may raise hackles or worse, but here goes: What about a CIII with - ahem - Veloce? The guy who sold me my Centaur after talking me out of Chorus was recently advising Veloce rather than Centaur for a good budget ride, on the premise that a> Centaur has gotten a bit more expesnive the past few years, and b> te design/improvements trickle down, so this year's Veloce is 2002's (or so) Centaur. No idea if that's true, but the stuff sure looks good.

[Bruce H.]

price has risen since i bought my serotta, but a spectrum might be worth the extra. seems like he might go over 3k if needed
bruce h

[Climb01742]

i'd say again...initially the choice shouldn't be about price...here's why...a few years ago i got s.o. climb back into riding...she had a budget...came down to a steel lemond or alu specialized...chose lemond...rode it for a year, loved riding, but felt so-so about bike, wanted something lighter...found a seven ti frame on big sale...now just loves, loves, loves to ride...the ride of her seven just makes her smile...so i'd say, fly, have your buddy try to figure out what bike really brings him riding pleasure...then figure out how to get it within $3k. money is the second decision. riding joy is first. IMO.

[Ken Lehner]

So how many percentage of people here can ride to the level of the coming MeiVici? :p

100%. It's a bike, for crying out loud, not an F-22.

[djg]

I agree. I'd say that 98% of the people on this forum (me included), can't ride to the level of their bike.

The bike goes on the bottom ... no, wait, the road goes on the bottom, and then comes the bike, and then me, on top. That's how I was taught by my dad.

Same for the meivici, I reckon. Same for all mes bici.

[bluesea]

Agreed. Its not about price, but about passion just as much as about riding. I don't care how over the top a bike may be for a given rider--if they are out on the road and are happy with it, that is the main thing and this benefits us all, directly and indirectly.

[flydhest]

a sociologist or social psychologist would have a field day with this thread, it seems to me.

Oldmill, my friend, you expressed a thought that crossed my mind. I'm actually considering veloce stuff if I build up another bike for myself, or swapping some of my things to the wife's (hopefully soon) new 'cross bike.

blusea--gotcha. I misapprehended.

[JohnS]

90% of the people here could never be a successful salesperson. They don't know how to put themselves in another's shoes. You have to match a person's needs with their money. Just because a bike isn't right for you doesn't mean it's cr*p.

[Dr. Doofus]

90% of the people here could never be a successful salesperson. They don't know how to put themselves in another's shoes. You have to match a person's needs with their money. Just because a bike isn't right for you doesn't mean it's cr*p.


my pal cerebus was tellin me yesterday (or one of his heads was, at any rate), that the best salesmen he ever saw in the bike shops where he worked were the guys who made dang sure you were convinced that you had convinced yourself that the most expensive bike you could afford was the right bike for you, and who made sure you left with it that same day. Of course, these guys over in your world make sure they fit these (suckers) up properly, and then bend over backwards to support what they sell, to keep 'em coming back for another fix

but hey, what does a corpse know?

[oldguy00]

So, a buddy of mine is going to get a bike. I have talked to a couple of people here about used bikes/frames/components because my original plan was to help him into something good, but cheap, so he could evaluate his likelihood to actually ride. Well, he and his wife are both "dive in with both feet" people and she gave me two things, a mandate to get him a good bike and a $3K budget--all in, including tax (but not including shoes and clothes).

So, why shouldn't I push him to get a CIII with a Campy Centaur level build kit?

What do you all think should be done with $3K? Used is out, apparently (their preferences) and of course some sort of fitting will be done. He's mid-30s, athletic, has done some reasonable amounts of mtn. biking and is an avid runner. I have Centaur components on my CSi and they work just as well as the Record stuff on my Legend. I might have him try out some Shimano stuff to see how it fits his hands, of course, but the Doctor and I are biased toward Campy and he will be riding with us lots and, should it be necessary, borrowing wheels, etc.

My very modest opinion is that 3k does not get you a good value in a Serotta. There are just so many choices out there for high end carbon bikes, etc., that you can get for that price with a better groupo than Centaur.
How about Specialized Tarmac or Roubaix with a Dura Ace or Chorus group? Or as others have said, a Cannondale with Dura Ace? Much more bike for the money.

[marle]

If I had $3K I'd go to GVH to build a Ferrari red Cinelli Super Corsa with a Campy Record group.

[bluesea]

My very modest opinion is that 3k does not get you a good value in a Serotta. There are just so many choices out there for high end carbon bikes, etc., that you can get for that price with a better groupo than Centaur.
How about Specialized Tarmac or Roubaix with a Dura Ace or Chorus group? Or as others have said, a Cannondale with Dura Ace? Much more bike for the money.

Centaur is known to be a more than competent gruppo and the Serotta frame, well, IMO the frame is the most important component.

[vaxn8r]

Centaur is known to be a more than competent gruppo and the Serotta frame, well, IMO the frame is the most important component.
But your not talking the same price. What is a CIII with Centaur and a decent set of wheels?

No way can you get near a 'dale with DA10 for $2,600. I bet you'd have trouble getting the CIII/Centaur within $800. The differences are even more stark if you get a R1000 with Ultegra 10.

If this conversation is about value, the Serotta name negates that from the equation. And Serotta deserves that image. It's not a bad thing. They aren't trying to sell bikes for those on a budget. That's not what Serottta is about.

[bluesea]

But your not talking the same price. What is a CIII with Centaur and a decent set of wheels?

No way can you get near a 'dale with DA10 for $2,600. I bet you'd have trouble getting the CIII/Centaur within $800. The differences are even more stark if you get a R1000 with Ultegra 10.

If this conversation is about value, the Serotta name negates that from the equation. And Serotta deserves that image. It's not a bad thing. They aren't trying to sell bikes for those on a budget. That's not what Serottta is about.

When I look at value, price is only one part of the equation. Image and price do not take away from the pedigree of the frame and the inherent value derived thereof. In that sense I cannot but see Serotta's as great bikes irregardless of the price. I do agree with you to a certain extent, although others have pointed out earlier how a Serotta can be built for close to or under 3k. I am not pushing my own agenda, but am tayloring my responses to the OP's stated preferences. He has a Serotta, and mentioned leaning towards Campy.

I do, however, strongly favor a build-up to a pre-built, because I have always been very disappointed with the off brand components that they throw in here and there. In the end, I'm sure that the buyer in question will be initially happy with whatever he chooses.

[oldguy00]

I wasn't trying to imply that there was anything -wrong- with a 3k Serotta, just that for someone dropping 3k on their first bike, they could go for a lot more bang for the buck, rather than paying for the Serotta name. I think everyone agrees that the Serotta name carries a premium...
For his first bike, and for 3k, I figure he should get something more......advanced....lighter...?....than a CIII, even if it means getting a 'cookie cutter' brand name. Another option would be a Calfee Luna. I'm sure there are many others too.

[Wayne77]

How should one define "more advanced"? Sometimes lighter is better, sometimes lighter also means more fragile. If longevity is a priority, a nice steel frame is probably more suitable than the latest whiz bang carbo - plastic framed mass produced pocket rocket. In terms of tubing, Serotta's Colorado concept tubes are arguably more advanced than some of the plastic clone bikes coming out of the sweat shops these days... At least a custom Serotta allows the smart consumer and a good fitter to spec out a design that posseses exactly the aesthetic the buyer wants.

Don't get me wrong, one of these days I'd like to try one of these plastico-carbolishious wonder machines myself. I just don't think many of them, with their race-only geometry, are very suitable for beginners.

Cheers :beer:


I wasn't trying to imply that there was anything -wrong- with a 3k Serotta, just that for someone dropping 3k on their first bike, they could go for a lot more bang for the buck, rather than paying for the Serotta name. I think everyone agrees that the Serotta name carries a premium...
For his first bike, and for 3k, I figure he should get something more......advanced....lighter...?....than a CIII, even if it means getting a 'cookie cutter' brand name. Another option would be a Calfee Luna. I'm sure there are many others too.

[bluesea]

I wasn't trying to imply that there was anything -wrong- with a 3k Serotta, just that for someone dropping 3k on their first bike, they could go for a lot more bang for the buck, rather than paying for the Serotta name. I think everyone agrees that the Serotta name carries a premium...


Sure, but in the lower range the name brand mark-up does not seem as pronounced. I was considering a Serotta in '95, and back then they were known for immpecable handling and build quality. Has this changed since then? Precision build is certainly a virture that is worth considering. The frame I just built carries a name/price premium, but it has certain qualities that I find familiar and desirable, which made it a good value for me. Its build quality is only so-so, but I still like it.

FWIW I like the Six13, and if I had a stable of 5 or 6 bikes would probably have one. I saw mentioned somewhere, and I can't confirm this as absolutely true, that the Six13 manual has wording to the effect that it is a high level racing bike that may have the longevity consistent with that purpose.

[Skrawny]

Just missed out! My LBS was selling a 56 fierte (pre CS seatstay) with centaur and Ksyrium Elite wheels for $3,200. But someone just scooped it up.

http://citycycle.com/BikeSale.html

(i have no affiliation w/ the LBS)

-s

[Ken Robb]

what an impressive collection of demo bikes-- they must do a tremendous volume to support that inventory. Well I surely hope they do--they deserve it.

[mls]

well what did he get

[Dekonick]

Honesly, flyd, a CIII with a Centaur kit will likely not meet the 3K total. The frame at $1495 and Ouzo Pro at $385; a Centaur kit is about $1300. That's no tax and no labor costs. I suppose you could cut back on the fork and _maybe_ make the number.

Odds are that your pal will fit a stock frame since, say, 95% of everyone would be just as happy on a well-designed stock frame as on a custom. I'd look for a close-out. Here are some closeout ideas:
Pegoretti 8:30AM
Pegoretti Palosanto
Rivendell Romulus (easily set up as a "standard", "modern" road bike)
Merckx Race
Pinarello Marvel
Look (various models!)
All of these bikes ride just fine and are plenty of cycle that will come in under 3K total. OR, you need a dealer who is a pal and discounts you that last $200 or so over the mark (as I see it).

Used is really the best shot because, well, look at the CSi that you have that you got used...

dbrk


2 Ouzo Pro's for sale right now in the classifieds for less than $125 - didnt check lengths but worth a look...

[geezohwiz]

Wow, what a timely thread! Funny, I'm in the same position with a good friend who is upgrading from an entry level Fuji and has about the same budget (~$3,500). I've steered him toward the Serotta's "budget" frames, Pegoretti's (based on a lot of the opinions of the folks on this board) and the Pinarellos. I also like the Orbea, and he seems to favor the Onix (although I've tried to upgrade him to the Orca). I've not heard anyone mention the Orbeas. Any opinions?

When I got back into cycling, I went the used route and got a Legend Ti with Ultegra for a little over $3,000. ('Geez's Legend' in the picture gallery). I'll tell you, the bike couldn't have been any cleaner or fit any better than if it was delivered to me as a new, custom bike. That being said, I understand the allure of being the "first owner" and getting exactly what I want (i.e, paint and decals). I also think the CIII would be a good choice.

[jerk]

options:

pegoretti 8:30 am with chorus

pegoretti duende with centaur

serotta colorado 3 with centaur

pinarello galileo with ultegra ten and an upgrade to an even better wheelset

merckx corsa with chorus

ridley pegasus with record.

those would all be fine bikes and offer something for everyone.

jerk

[andy mac]

Wow, what a timely thread! Funny, I'm in the same position with a good friend who is upgrading from an entry level Fuji and has about the same budget (~$3,500). I've steered him toward the Serotta's "budget" frames, Pegoretti's (based on a lot of the opinions of the folks on this board) and the Pinarellos. I also like the Orbea, and he seems to favor the Onix (although I've tried to upgrade him to the Orca). I've not heard anyone mention the Orbeas. Any opinions?

When I got back into cycling, I went the used route and got a Legend Ti with Ultegra for a little over $3,000. ('Geez's Legend' in the picture gallery). I'll tell you, the bike couldn't have been any cleaner or fit any better than if it was delivered to me as a new, custom bike. That being said, I understand the allure of being the "first owner" and getting exactly what I want (i.e, paint and decals). I also think the CIII would be a good choice.

i'd start with what does he really want to use the bike for and what fits him...