A plug for TRP Mini-Vs

[echelon_john]

Came back from a few weeks of riding a bike with Paul Neo-Retros and jumped on my CAAD9 with TRP 8.4 Mini Vs...and nearly put myself over the handlebars.

If you've been looking for an upgrade from cantis, I recommend them strongly. Plenty of power (true one finger panic stopping power), great modulation, easy to install/adjust...just a nice product. I use the 8.4 length with 7800 levers and they're perfect.

Another noticeable benefit is the complete absence of front fork chatter when braking on washboard pavement or dirt, compared with cantis with a cable stop under the stem.

I'm sure the Pauls are really nice also, but the TRPs are about 1/2 the price and actually have surprisingly good finish quality.

Anybody else using?

[gone]

Anybody else using?
Yep, got a set of CX9's and will second everything you've said. Great brakes, reasonable price.

[xeladragon]

I replaced some TRP EuroXs with the 8.4s a month of two after they were released... never going back to cantis. I use them with SRAM Red shifters. Not as much rim/pad clearance compared to cantis, but I mostly commute on my cross bike, so not a high priority for me.

[JayBay]

Yup, I dig 'em. Tons of power, the 8.4's work great with my Rival brifters, and they're a really nice piece of kit for the price. Titanium hardware and everything.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=109560&highlight=crux

[tele]

same experience here, love 'em on all surfaces: paved roads, dirt roads, trails whatever.

[pdmtong]

the 8.4s work great in the wet/rain too

no shudder

lots of power

great modulation

no more burying the lever into the bar

mine are set up with '08 force levers

[GRAVELBIKE]

I use Tektro RX5s (http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=1122), which are the same length as the CX8.4 minis. Levers are current generation Campy Centaur, and stopping is phenomenal. I think I've sworn off cantilevers for good.

[DRZRM]

Yup +1.

I run Record levers with TRP 8.4s on my IF and I was just setting up a pair of the Paul's mini-Vs on my Zanc. I agree that the TRPs are a better deal, and I like the shorter brake pads that come with the TRPs too (the Pauls ship with full length V-brake Koolstops with the "rim cleaning" from edge, and the levers don't seem to pull enough cable to really take advantage of that type of pad).

[rice rocket]

Do you find them to be mushy?

I put on the 8.0cm mini-Vs (the Tektro 926AL), and I'm still looking for more stiffness. The shorter lever arm vs. the 8.4cm arm of the TRPs, which should in theory give me more stiffness/less travel (at the expense of power). Maybe I've been spoiled by dual pivots though.

[echelon_john]

Not mushy at all IMO.

[benc]

I'm just back from a long ride on my new CX9's. I was riding force with eurox's and was fairly pleased. Threw 7900 on and the eurox's were garbage... just not compatible. Rode it that way for months so I am now in heaven with the CX9's. The modulation is great and I almost went over the bars avoiding a stop sign runner.

[Lovetoclimb]

I see DRZRM runs TRP 8.4s with Campy Ergos, anyone have experience with the CX9s and Campy Ergos? Or is it apple to apples between both models?

Looking to put some on my Surly commuter / soon to be SS cross racer. Running a single 1x10 with Campy Centaur 10s ergos right now.

[Chance]

Do you find them to be mushy?

I put on the 8.0cm mini-Vs (the Tektro 926AL), and I'm still looking for more stiffness. The shorter lever arm vs. the 8.4cm arm of the TRPs, which should in theory give me more stiffness/less travel (at the expense of power). Maybe I've been spoiled by dual pivots though.

Or maybe it's not an apples to apples comparison. The difference between 8.0 and 8.4 isn't much, but other factors can be.

[Rekalcitrant]

+1 re. the virtues of mini v's, and especially the cheap, short, tektro models.

As far as mushiness goes, in my (very recent) experience, the angle of the brake pad holders can make a difference, as can the brake pads themselves. I just moved pads and holders from the euro cantis I replaced to some new cheapo tektro mini-v's and tinkered with the setup; it improved the feel of the brakes dramatically. Also, I think the appearance of mushiness on the repair stand can be due in part to fork/frame flex because of the mechanical advantage of the brakes. I remember the same phenomenon way back when v-brakes and roller cams and such started to appear on mountain bikes. Not that this is all that Rice Rocket is complaining about, but just pointing it out.

[oldpotatoe]

Came back from a few weeks of riding a bike with Paul Neo-Retros and jumped on my CAAD9 with TRP 8.4 Mini Vs...and nearly put myself over the handlebars.

If you've been looking for an upgrade from cantis, I recommend them strongly. Plenty of power (true one finger panic stopping power), great modulation, easy to install/adjust...just a nice product. I use the 8.4 length with 7800 levers and they're perfect.

Another noticeable benefit is the complete absence of front fork chatter when braking on washboard pavement or dirt, compared with cantis with a cable stop under the stem.

I'm sure the Pauls are really nice also, but the TRPs are about 1/2 the price and actually have surprisingly good finish quality.

Anybody else using?

Installed many, great brakes all around.

[GRAVELBIKE]

I'm curious if anyone has weighed their 8.4s. Every Tektro/TRP brake that I've weighed recently has been much heavier, and I get the feeling that the claimed weight does not include pads, noodles, or in the case of cantilevers, straddle cables/yokes.

[DRZRM]

If you are getting mushy feel from the lever, I'd sugest that you raise your pads as close to the top of the slots as you can, and be sure to start with your pads faced exactly right angle to the rim. If you get squeal, adjust for a bit of toe-in, but I am generally not getting any significant noise with this set-up. I'm still on the fence about the longer V-brake pads on the Pauls.

I'm deciding between replacing with these TRPs (http://www.trpbrakes.com/category.php?productid=1088&catid=187&subcat=0)

http://www.trpbrakes.com/timthumb.php?src=ppic/q6zwdr45jrf36uu_b.jpg&w=300&zc=1

and these Kool Stops (http://www.koolstop.com/english/crosspad.html)

http://www.koolstop.com/images/ks-cxt_lg.jpg

Any thoughts?

[echelon_john]

Zach,
Let us know if you decide to go with the Kool Stops what your impression is. I've been really surprised and impressed with the stock TRP pads, and am curious if the Kool Stops are an improvement.
JC

[GRAVELBIKE]

Zach,
Let us know if you decide to go with the Kool Stops what your impression is. I've been really surprised and impressed with the stock TRP pads, and am curious if the Kool Stops are an improvement.
JC

The stock TRP pads are pretty decent, but I've found that they're not as rim-friendly as Kool-Stop or Yokozuna pads/inserts. I tried several different pads, and found that the Yokozuna salmon pads worked best with the mini-v's. Note that I'm using the longer, mtb-style holders.

[DRZRM]

I picked up the Kool Stops, should have them Friday. I'll let you know how they compare to the stock TRPs.

Zach,
Let us know if you decide to go with the Kool Stops what your impression is. I've been really surprised and impressed with the stock TRP pads, and am curious if the Kool Stops are an improvement.
JC

[rice rocket]

If you are getting mushy feel from the lever, I'd sugest that you raise your pads as close to the top of the slots as you can, and be sure to start with your pads faced exactly right angle to the rim. If you get squeal, adjust for a bit of toe-in, but I am generally not getting any significant noise with this set-up. I'm still on the fence about the longer V-brake pads on the Pauls.

Any tips on getting the adjustment right? I've just been squeezing the pads with my hands against the rim and tightening the cable clamp, then back off the in-line adjuster slightly.

Someone noted earlier (Chance I believe?) that the pad travel is always going to be through a range of angles because of the fixed distance from the pad to the brake stud. So you do optimize for initial contact or for lots-of-pressure?

I got the Kool Stop pads and it isn't noticeably stiffer.

Another change I'm thinking about making is a wider, 23mm wide rim. The wider rim means you can space the pads out further, which should give more lateral pad movement and less vertical movement.

[DRZRM]

Never thought about it, and I assume you are right. I'm running HED 23mm rims with Record hubs on both my cross bikes (thanks John) and I'm going to rebuild my road wheels with one of the available 23 rims shortly, I really like the feel...if only I could afford new Zipp clinchers.

I adjust so that the pad is right to the rim at first contact, but I'm no expert, just trial and error.

[Chance]

Someone noted earlier (Chance I believe?) that the pad travel is always going to be through a range of angles because of the fixed distance from the pad to the brake stud.

Yes, that was me. Also, the difference between your 8 and 8.4 cm is only what, about 5 percent? That’s not much. By comparison how much boss and resulting pad adjustment is needed for 5 percent change in mechanical advantage? Not sure but would bet that it’s a lot less than 2 cm provided by adjustment slots along brake arms.

Think it was RPS who estimated that for mini-Vs to have similar mechanical advantage to dual-pivot road calipers (if pursued to simulate feel) brake pads would have to be located at or just above the mid-point of the arms. And that’s not doable with stock mini-Vs. Recall reading he had an unusual steel frame custom made with rear wheel brake bosses located low enough so that brake pads were near the top of adjustment slot, similar to picture below. Makes sense that should make a much greater difference in mechanical advantage than going from 8.4 to 8 cm arms. Will let engineers debate the numbers as to whether that’s right.

Can’t find the picture he posted but this picture off the net shows how much variation there can be.

http://winor-xlc.elfriede.eikona-server.de/bild.php?src=portal/artikeldatenbank/pics/bremsen/2500301000.jpg&new_max_width=476&new_max_height=320

To be clear, not suggesting too much mechanical advantage is causing your problem. Don’t know since there are so many things that can make a brake feel soft. Improper MA is probably the most important though.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm curious if anyone has weighed their 8.4s. Every Tektro/TRP brake that I've weighed recently has been much heavier, and I get the feeling that the claimed weight does not include pads, noodles, or in the case of cantilevers, straddle cables/yokes.

Don't they weigh 8.4 ounces???

[echelon_john]

grams. they're wicked light.

Don't they weigh 8.4 ounces???

[oldpotatoe]

grams. they're wicked light.

oh yes, metric...silly me....

[rice rocket]

Never thought about it, and I assume you are right. I'm running HED 23mm rims with Record hubs on both my cross bikes (thanks John) and I'm going to rebuild my road wheels with one of the available 23 rims shortly, I really like the feel...if only I could afford new Zipp clinchers.

I adjust so that the pad is right to the rim at first contact, but I'm no expert, just trial and error.

I thought about this some more and realized I should use the thicker spacer that came with my mini-Vs instead of the shorter spacer that came with my Kool Stop canti pads. That also means that I have to drop the spacer on the nut-side of the brake and substitute a thinner washer instead to be able to thread the nut on. It brings the angularity of the brake arm closer to vertical, giving you even more horizontal travel and less vertical.

There's now some intense brake power with the pads adjusted right, and stiffness there to boot, and I'm still on 19mm rims (my 23mm is waiting for me to sack up and tighten the spokes down). Once I go wider, it should become a "rising rate" linkage (as you add more travel, it adds more power). Maybe.

Pics of what I'm talking about:

http://i.imgur.com/ikzxo.jpg vs http://i.imgur.com/y9fae.jpg.

[Chance]

I thought about this some more and realized I should use the thicker spacer that came with my mini-Vs instead of the shorter spacer that came with my Kool Stop canti pads. That also means that I have to drop the spacer on the nut-side of the brake and substitute a thinner washer instead to be able to thread the nut on. It brings the angularity of the brake arm closer to vertical, giving you even more horizontal travel and less vertical.

There's now some intense brake power with the pads adjusted right, and stiffness there to boot, and I'm still on 19mm rims (my 23mm is waiting for me to sack up and tighten the spokes down). Once I go wider, it should become a "rising rate" linkage (as you add more travel, it adds more power). Maybe.

Pics of what I'm talking about:

http://i.imgur.com/ikzxo.jpg vs http://i.imgur.com/y9fae.jpg.

Rice, it doesn't work quite that way. The "angularity" of the brake arms closer to vertical has a minimal effect on mechanical advantage or anything else of importance. As long as they are close to vertical (which can't be helped anyway) it's all about the same. Any improvements you have noticed has to do with other factors you've changed. Pad material maybe, or pad alignment as it contacts rim? Whatever it is it can't be the arms being more vertical if everything else is the same.

Since it's all a rigid system that pivots about the boss (except for Shimano parallel linkage sytem) the only variables that actually affects MA as a function of geometry is location of pivot boss relative to rim brake surface (assuming a given length arm of course).

Installing a wider rim should help because it moves brake surface to being closer to boss, but putting a spacer in there doesn't change anything other than brake arm "angularity" as you mentioned, and that's not important.

In my opinion if you noticed great improvements in power and stiffness feel you should try to figure out what else you changed.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Is it better to have the bosses positioned so that the pads are closer or farther from the pivots? I'm thinking about having my frame repainted, and was considering having the rear brake bosses moved up a little bit (pads would be closer to the pivots/mounting bolts).

[Rada]

I use Tektro RX5s (http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=1122), which are the same length as the CX8.4 minis. Levers are current generation Campy Centaur, and stopping is phenomenal. I think I've sworn off cantilevers for good.

I use the RX5s on my touring bike (Trek 520) and like them much better than cantis. Plus $30 bucks shipped for the pair and they can't be beat IMO.

[pzung]

Came back from a few weeks of riding a bike with Paul Neo-Retros and jumped on my CAAD9 with TRP 8.4 Mini Vs...and nearly put myself over the handlebars.

If you've been looking for an upgrade from cantis, I recommend them strongly. Plenty of power (true one finger panic stopping power), great modulation, easy to install/adjust...just a nice product. I use the 8.4 length with 7800 levers and they're perfect.

Another noticeable benefit is the complete absence of front fork chatter when braking on washboard pavement or dirt, compared with cantis with a cable stop under the stem.

I'm sure the Pauls are really nice also, but the TRPs are about 1/2 the price and actually have surprisingly good finish quality.

Anybody else using?

Just installed these exact same brakes today and the stopping power is definitely more than the EuroX. Totally vouch for their performance.

[deanster]

I use Tektro RX5s (http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=1122), which are the same length as the CX8.4 minis. Levers are current generation Campy Centaur, and stopping is phenomenal. I think I've sworn off cantilevers for good.

I am using the same Tektro mini Vs with Record Ergo levers on my Gunnar Crosshairs XC and they are phenomenal. If the levers are balanced using the set screws there is no worry about adjustments. They are every bit as good as my Campy Calipers. Will never use cantis again. I am using a brake pad purchased from Performance that uses 3 materials and seems a little longer than the original.

[beercan]

i just bought some cx 9 at a swap meet a few months back, just put them on the cross, they are fantastic, I originally had avid ultimates but just got annoyed with adjustments and wanted more stopping power vs clearance since i primarily commute on the crossbike. the rx5, did you guys need a travel agent for set up?

[echelon_john]

No travel agent needed for 8.4s with 7800 levers.

can't vouch for other setups, but between the two arm lengths most any road lever should work without artificial aids... ; )