Peter Sagan...for real?

[slidey]

No spoilers here...but just one of those Q's which has been on my mind for a while now.

Is this guy for real? I mean, he performs as if he's on something...and I mean that as a loaded compliment! Have any of you felt this way about Sagan...I mean just being guarded in your praise for the guy? The peloton must be eyeing him suspiciously, so must the authorities, right?

I want to believe, but I also want to believe in Lance...not sure how that's worked out, yet :eek:

[nooneline]

For real.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=112045
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1164773#post1164773

[tannhauser]

Well here's a question that has no answers but wraps the eternal doping question around another rider.

Can we just enjoy the sport? If you want cynicism just turn on the news or look at numerous other threads here.

[slidey]

Don't get me wrong...laud his wins, albeit not a fan of his boastful style at the finish!

But, strikes me as too good to be true...and since doping has, in the past, raised it's ugly head...especially in relation to extremely successful riders, I'm not sure. I would love for him to be cleared, just to lift that cloud of suspicion his phenomenal victories have achieved.

[Joachim]

I would love for him to be cleared, just to lift that cloud of suspicion his phenomenal victories have achieved.

He is being tested every day...not sure what needs to be done to "clear" him. Sagan is a natural talent. There has been discussion about this.

[jds108]

It would be interesting to learn if he has any physiological outliers. Like wasn't Lance's resting hr like 28 bpm or something?

[nooneline]

Don't get me wrong...laud his wins, albeit not a fan of his boastful style at the finish!

But, strikes me as too good to be true...and since doping has, in the past, raised it's ugly head...especially in relation to extremely successful riders, I'm not sure. I would love for him to be cleared, just to lift that cloud of suspicion his phenomenal victories have achieved.



....

I'm sorry but I'm starting to question Sagan. Dude is too strong. He's been a monster consistantly since March. At the finish today everyone else looks like they were coming out of their skins and he looked fresh as a daisy. I'm beginning to smell doper on him imho.

That's silly, to call his performances reason to suggest doping. Here's why: he's developed slowly and steadily for the past couple of years, winning smaller races, building endurance and strength, and is now contesting bigger races.

Sometimes riders are dominant. It's if they don't have that history of development that your eyebrows might raise.

[zmudshark]

I like Sagan, a breath of fresh air.

I hope he comes up with even more outrageous finish line antics. If you beat the guys he's beating, and survive the carnage, some grandstanding is allowed.

I thought the Hulk pose fit the green jersey well.

This is coming from an old fart.

[slidey]

I'm not sure if a discussion on an online forum qualifies as a justification of a rider as a natural talent. But, you're right...it does answer my question...most of you do feel like he's au naturale!

He is being tested every day...not sure what needs to be done to "clear" him. Sagan is a natural talent. There has been discussion about this.

The reason I brought this up, is as I'm sure you guys know...the peloton used to be able to call attention to a specific rider and request for rigorous drug tests done on the rider. Merckx was the subject of at least one of these in his career...I'm wondering if the peloton is getting slightly wary about him now. Or, he could just be the new deal in flats to rolling stages! However, if he's in the lead group in the hill stages as well...well then, there's definitely reason for a serious inquiry there.

[tannhauser]

He is being tested every day...not sure what needs to be done to "clear" him. Sagan is a natural talent. There has been discussion about this.

We discuss this stuff ALL. THE. TIME.

[Jaq]

Personally, I think he's great. I don't mind his theatrics... as long as he doesn't turn into (too much of) an egotistical jerk. As for doping, we're all a little jaded these days, but until he tests positive, I'm gonna believe he's clean. And just that good.

[Fixed]

69
One rider won all the jersey's ,
Cheers. What would we say today ?

[tannhauser]

It would be interesting to learn if he has any physiological outliers. Like wasn't Lance's resting hr like 28 bpm or something?

Clearly he has a superabundance of fast and slow twitch fibers, and well beyond peloton average endurance.

The entire package, in other words.

[Joachim]

We discuss this stuff ALL. THE. TIME.

Thats for sure. Just like the cyclingnews.com forum.

[Earl Gray]

He is doping and we all know it. If you refuse to believe than you fully deserve the disappointment you will feel when he is caught.

Oh wait, he has never tested positive! He must be clean.

[tannhauser]

He is doping and we all know it. If you refuse to believe than you fully deserve the disappointment you will feel when he is caught.

Oh wait, he has never tested positive! He must be clean.

Let's just say they all are and enjoy the sport.

[Nooch]

Fortunately for cycling, I'd say he's legit, and I'd say the sport is a bit cleaner... Just take a look at his file from first stage he won: http://www.srm.de/index.php/us/srm-blog/tour-de-france/727

"Peter soared up the incline with a 1,236 watt surge to his stage win averaging 970 watts in the final 200 meters."

If I can have an 1100 watt peak 1-second, then sagan having 1236 doesn't seem too far fetched -- and for a guy who's 150-160 lbs (if that), he's got a far better power:weight ratio than me..

So I'm going to believe in him.. and his youth.. and his just being that good.

[Elefantino]

Thankfully I have him and Wiggo on my fantasy team. The rest of the team seems to be dropping out at an alarming rate.

[fiamme red]

The cyclist that he brings to mind is the great sprinter Freddy Maertens, who won eight stages and the green jersey (and finished eighth) in his first Tour, in 1976.

[witcombusa]

Clearly he has a superabundance of fast and slow twitch fibers, and well beyond peloton average endurance.

The entire package, in other words.


Oh, you mean the BIG white lunch bag!

[Rueda Tropical]

I'd say he's owed the benefit of the doubt. Just winning and having great talent should not be considered automatic proof of doping. It's sad that the sport has been reduced to that (for good reason). The kid is a monster.

[witcombusa]

I'd say he's owed the benefit of the doubt. Just winning and having great talent should not be considered automatic proof of doping. It's sad that the sport has been reduced to that (for good reason). The kid is a monster.

I'd say you're right, there is no doubt (that he is). But let the entertainers entertain us. That's what they get paid for...

[nooneline]

I'd say he's owed the benefit of the doubt. Just winning and having great talent should not be considered automatic proof of doping. It's sad that the sport has been reduced to that (for good reason). The kid is a monster.

Or... the other way around! We could just have bike races where whoever wins is banned, for doping.

[esldude]

Maybe he is just like Fignon. Guy had one year as a pro rider. The next year in his first TdF he won. Hinault was the team leader, but couldn't ride. Fignon proved strong enough for the team to back and he won at age 22. Next year he switched to a new start up team, and won the TdF again. Might have won the Giro if not for some dirty time trial antics by television helicopters. Flew in front of him during the time trial, and behind Moser. Moser won by a few seconds.

[Jason E]

Blah blah blah, clever armchair skeptics.....

If Gorrila didn't hit the ground twice today I would bet he would have beat him. If that were the case, if he lost by .002 seconds, would you have started this thread? There is so much more than the last 100 meters of a bike race that goes into who wins.

Lame, slidey.

[zmudshark]

Maybe he is just like Fignon. Guy had one year as a pro rider. The next year in his first TdF he won. Hinault was the team leader, but couldn't ride. Fignon proved strong enough for the team to back and he won at age 22. Next year he switched to a new start up team, and won the TdF again. Might have won the Giro if not for some dirty time trial antics by television helicopters. Flew in front of him during the time trial, and behind Moser. Moser won by a few seconds.

Pretty sure Fignon was dirty.

[Jason E]

And then this drives it home:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/533781/dislocated-shoulder-hinders-greipel-sprint.html

[BillG]

He's not a TT rider all of a sudden crushing on mountain top finishes. Certainly doesn't ride like Ricco or the Chicken or Pantani or TdF Lance, etc. It's not very deep in the race so it seems a little early for blood bags. Similarly with testosterone. He's real young. So I really don't see what dope you think he's doing. HGH in the off season? Maybe but he has quite a kick. Spartacus sure seems to like him, and he is a "0" on the UCI suspicious list.

[bluesea]

Sagan is so real, he's gone beyond real to unreal, and back to real again.

[witcombusa]

He's not a TT rider all of a sudden crushing on mountain top finishes. Certainly doesn't ride like Ricco or the Chicken or Pantani or TdF Lance, etc. It's not very deep in the race so it seems a little early for blood bags. Similarly with testosterone. He's real young. So I really don't see what dope you think he's doing. HGH in the off season? Maybe but he has quite a kick. Spartacus sure seems to like him, and he is a "0" on the WDA suspicious list.


Never tested positive? ;)

[BillG]

[/B]


Never tested positive? ;)

No, he is a totally unsuspicious due to his blood values on the UCI secret list:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/lequipe-publishes-list-of-ucis-doping-suspicions-from-2010-tour-de-france_172784

That's a lot more meaningful than never tested positive.

[witcombusa]

No, he is a totally unsuspicious due to his blood values on the UCI secret list:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/lequipe-publishes-list-of-ucis-doping-suspicions-from-2010-tour-de-france_172784

That's a lot more meaningful than never tested positive.

You think so do you?

The sport needs believers...

[BillG]

You think so do you?

The sport needs believers...

A little snarky of you I think. No need for snark. Be a little more specific in your theories as opposed to the easy "they're all doping".

[tannhauser]

A little snarky of you I think. No need for snark.

Yup. Twas a good post BG.

[esldude]

So is it most people's belief that in 2012 only people doping have a shot at victory? That any of the better than usual performances are probably a result of that?

[slidey]

Yup, I still would have. As I said, I love the sport and I want to believe he's the real deal...but I'm not into the blind faith thing. In my mind, there's reason enough to ask questions...and so I have. If you feel otherwise, so be it...no need to go name calling.

If Gorrila didn't hit the ground twice today I would bet he would have beat him. If that were the case, if he lost by .002 seconds, would you have started this thread?

[slidey]

Not my view...but as someone mentioned, of late the cloud of doping in cycling has once again reared it's ugly head in cycling in a pretty big way, and I for one am finding it hard to look up to incredible achievements without a shadow of doubt.

Clearly, I'm in a minority...at least on this forum.

So is it most people's belief that in 2012 only people doping have a shot at victory? That any of the better than usual performances are probably a result of that?

[witcombusa]

So is it most people's belief that in 2012 only people doping have a shot at victory? That any of the better than usual performances are probably a result of that?


YES, same as always

[witcombusa]

A little snarky of you I think. No need for snark. Be a little more specific in your theories as opposed to the easy "they're all doping".

Theories? Are you kidding me?

Have you been paying any attention at all?

[rice rocket]

No, he is a totally unsuspicious due to his blood values on the UCI secret list:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/lequipe-publishes-list-of-ucis-doping-suspicions-from-2010-tour-de-france_172784

That's a lot more meaningful than never tested positive.

Zabrieskie is listed as zero, Hincapie is listed as a 1, Vande Velde and Leipheimer are 4s.

So really, it's a list of how good of a liar you are than anything.

[BillG]

Zabrieskie is listed as zero, Hincapie is listed as a 1, Vande Velde and Leipheimer are 4s.

So really, it's a list of how good of a liar you are than anything.

No it's a list of who was currently suspicious as of the making of the list based on blood values, whereabouts, etc. I have no reason to think that when the list was created -- long after they were on US Postal -- that those folks were currently doping. I think GH was starting to confess around then.

[BillG]

Theories? Any you kinding me?

Have you been paying any attention at all?

That's just rude. One of the many reasons I ride my bike more than I frequent the forum, rudeness.

[Marcusaurelius]

When you start to sound like a tabloid I think you're in trouble.

There's been doping in every sport but I don't think that it diminishes the accomplishments of those who don't cheat.

I never accuse anyone of a crime until he's (or she's) proven guilty in a fair and honest court of law. And even then--there have been mistakes.

I work on the assumption that almost everyone is honest and just trying to do their best.

[witcombusa]

That's just rude. One of the many reasons I ride my bike more than I frequent the forum, rudeness.

You find that rude?

Pull your head out of the sand and look around at say just the last 20 years of pro cycling. If you're not juicing, you're not competitive. Period.

[Jason E]

When you start to sound like a tabloid I think you're in trouble.

There's been doping in every sport but I don't think that it diminishes the accomplishments of those who don't cheat.

I never accuse anyone of a crime until he's (or she's) proven guilty in a fair and honest court of law. And even then--there have been mistakes.

I work on the assumption that almost everyone is honest and just trying to do their best.


Unfortunately this logic doesn't work around here because no one can have achievement without enhancement according to a bunch who feel wiser with unfounded contempt of all until proven innocent, which is not possible.

[BillG]

You find that rude?

Pull your head out of the sand and look around at say just the last 20 years of pro cycling. If you're not juicing, you're not competitive. Period.

You're not competitive FOR THE OVERALL IN THE TOURS. That's why I said be specific. There's tons of juicing, sure. But it varies by discipline, ambition, etc. Nothing Sagan does looks like EPO as far as I understand what EPO does. That's why I tried to be specific. I'm just trying to be fair to athletes -- I could be totally wrong and he could turn out to be a doper. But based on what I know, I'd prefer to restrain the J'Accuse.

And yes it is rude.

[Fixed]

Mediaroty is the new standard ,brilliance is out
Cheers

[Bruce K]

Deep breaths all around. Please?

BK

[nooneline]

You find that rude?

Pull your head out of the sand and look around at say just the last 20 years of pro cycling. If you're not juicing, you're not competitive. Period.

I think that's only half true. Half, because it ignores the way that the sport and the science have changed over the last decade. Sure, the last 20 years have been totally ****ed - but things have been changing. There weren't tests for EPO, so there were tests for hematocrit, and those were easily fudged - and then there were tests for EPO, and CERA, and there was the bio passport. Are these infallible? No. But not only the science but also popular <em>and rider</em> sentiment has shifted. Dirty teams are less the norm; the omerta has been (slowly) crumbling. There are high-profile teams and high-profile riders who are avowedly antidoping. Antidoping agencies are engaging in more antidoping and less brushing under the carpet (with some regretable and notable recent exceptions - cough, Contador, cough).

Okay, so all that is one way of looking at it. Perhaps a naieve one.

But average speeds are going down.

The time it takes to go up major climbs is going up. Considerably - like, outside of the margin of error.

What does that mean? That everybody is clean? No, not necessarily. There are probably a host of weird supplements and regimens and this and that that are alternatively of dubious value, or going back and forth between being on the banned list, and not.

But this is a far, far, far cry from the days of EPO'ed-to-the-gills. Of Mister Sixty Percent, of Pantani and Ulrich and Rijs and Armstrong, of three Mapei riders going one-two-three in Roubaix, of superstar riders coming out of nowhere, winning huge, and disappearing just as fast.

Is it perfect?

**** no! What is?

Is it better?

Obviously.

You'd have to be blind to think otherwise.

[jlwdm]

Sagan is a talented cyclist. In 2008 he won the Junior Mountain Bike Worlds came in second in the Junior World Cyclocross Worlds and came in second at the Junior Paris Roubaix. Pretty impressive in three different cycling disciplines.

My favorite Is when he sold his bike, the sponsor's bike was delayed and he won the Slovak Cup on his sister's supermarket bike with limited gearing.

Jeff

[harryblack]

Can you be more specific re: climbs? While it's likely some riders of today don't have the Riis (hah), Pantani or Vaughters (double hah) 'wings' of the past, isn't it very difficult to compare climbs from tour to tour because of their position on a stage, the individual stage strategy and tactics etc?

I remember George Hincapie won a mountain stage-- Greenville training, whoa!


But average speeds are going down.

The time it takes to go up major climbs is going up. Considerably - like, outside of the margin of error.

[tannhauser]

Can you be more specific re: climbs? While it's likely some riders of today don't have the Riis (hah), Pantani or Vaughters (double hah) 'wings' of the past, isn't it very difficult to compare climbs from tour to tour because of their position on a stage, the individual stage strategy and tactics etc?

I remember George Hincapie won a mountain stage-- Greenville training, whoa!

Sastre and Vdv going up Alpe at a glacial pace.

You can see crank speed slow way down versus before.

Maybe you can call me a name again. Or laugh to yourself.

[Elefantino]

Deep breaths all around. Please?
A-****ing-men!

[esldude]

Maybe we need two parts to the sport. Non-doping, and doping allowed.

Get caught doping in the non-doping league and you are banned for life from any of the events of either league.

Or perhaps allow you to declare doping and non-doping with time or other handicaps if you are in the doping group.

One day in the future, I am sure there will be genetic manipulation and then you will have the sticky widget to deal with.

[slidey]

Or maybe the grand tours should be made a tad easier...and I'm referring here, only to the climbing stages. Some of those climbs which these riders are expected to "race" through are just insane...I mean, it's not like choosing a slightly easier climb will ruin the sport...it's all about power and strategy anyway. On the other hand, this might dispel the "How do I get over this superhuman climb?" fear and athletes might not see the point in taking the risk (of getting caught) since there is no need for such an extra boost anymore!

I do think this year's Tour schedule is a small step in the right direction...lots more TT'ing. This does test one mentally as well as physically to an unbelievable extent, on any terrain.

[harryblack]

I don't "see" anything; give us even vaguely quantitative evidence.

I don't know how Miguel Indurain won all those time trials though, I'll say that.

Sastre and Vdv going up Alpe at a glacial pace.

You can see crank speed slow way down versus before.

Maybe you can call me a name again. Or laugh to yourself.

[cnighbor1]

Now anytime any sport figure comes into the sports worlds and excells at his sport we now bring up the word "Doping",. Sad that we come to that!
I am postive the 13 year woman golfer that made it into The womans US Open must be unto something. It couldn't that old hard work song and dance could it.
charles Nighbor

[tannhauser]

I don't "see" anything; give us even vaguely quantitative evidence.

I don't know how Miguel Indurain won all those time trials though, I'll say that.

You can't quantify leg speed. You have to use your eyes. There is also a lot of data about actual Alpe climbing speeds over the years. It is way slower now. I'm too lazy to dig it up, perhaps you can.

There is no doubt about Big Mig.

[slidey]

Miguel must be one hell of a rider In-the-rain :banana:

[jlwdm]

?...

I remember George Hincapie won a mountain stage-- Greenville training, whoa!

There is a big difference between winning a climbing stage as a contender and winning a climbing stage where no one cares about you and lets you go, like Hincapie's win.

Jeff

[jonnyBgood]

You know what the terrible thing of this whole thread is that....everyone assumes he is using something because he is kicking ass.

The kid...remember he is ONLY 22 years old... has had an amazing season the last two years and I think he is just coming into his own. He may not have the flat out speed in the field sprints like Cav just yet... but give him some time and he will.

I say if he can win a Tour Stage then let him show some emotion as he crosses the line. We need more people in the Tour that actually have some personality.

just my 2 cents

[reptarlazer]

Let's face it. Most (if not all) world class athletes are using illegal tactics, supplements, and drugs to enhance performance. That's all there is to it. A friend quit playing minor league baseball because the level of performance exceeded his natural ability. His coaching staff and teammates all recommended that he get that extra edge. It's just how it goes. Kids on high-school football teams are taking steroids, I'd be more shocked that someone could ride 100 miles and still muster up the energy to sprint across the line doing nearly 50mph was not. I think some folks love the speculation, the mystery, and the drama of the drug talks as much as they love watching the sport. I couldn't care less. Drugged or not, it's incredible to watch!

[slidey]

If everything you've heard is true...that's pretty disturbing, but I can say that I too have heard of similar instances. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Let's face it. Most (if not all) world class athletes are using illegal tactics, supplements, and drugs to enhance performance. That's all there is to it. A friend quit playing minor league baseball because the level of performance exceeded his natural ability. His coaching staff and teammates all recommended that he get that extra edge. It's just how it goes. Kids on high-school football teams are taking steroids,

This bit, I'm not really surprised at all. Well, I can wager that speeds of 50mph will not be reached on a flat sprint...but 40~42mph, definitely feasible. I have a few Pro friends who race the NRC calendar and a few of them have turned out podiums over the years as well (including this year at the US Pro Road Race)...and I know these guys are the raw deal and can do exactly what you stated below.

I'd be more shocked that someone could ride 100 miles and still muster up the energy to sprint across the line doing nearly 50mph was not.

See, that's the thing...I like thinking, yes. I love the sport, yes. But I want to know what I'm watching is the pinnacle of achievement by solely a human, extraordinary maybe, but just a human. 'Cause otherwise we're entering into the domain of what science is capable of and that's not what these tours are about. That's what journal articles are for!

I think some folks love the speculation, the mystery, and the drama of the drug talks as much as they love watching the sport. I couldn't care less. Drugged or not, it's incredible to watch!

[reptarlazer]

Heart rate monitors, peak wattage, headsets, wind tunnel testing, hyperbaric sleeping chambers. The pros need to take an insane concoction of supplements just to maintain their weight. This day and age, it's 50% science ,40% determination, and 10% luck.

[Fixed]

Anyone who is superior must be cheating

Cheers I don' t want to live in such a negative world

[palincss]

He is being tested every day...not sure what needs to be done to "clear" him.

Wasn't that the case with Lance Armstrong as well?

[reptarlazer]

Anyone who is superior must be cheating


No. Not just the superior ones. All of them. Especially the mediocre ones.

[Lovetoclimb]

I heard Peter Sagan shops exclusively at rapha.cc

[r_mutt]

Wasn't that the case with Lance Armstrong as well?

no- lance failed post-tour testing in 99. see michael ashenden article on nyvelocity.

[Fixed]

[QUOTE=reptarlazer;1167656]No. Not just the superior ones. All of them. Especially the mediocre
Obviously Not a fan

[reptarlazer]

Fixed, you've got me all wrong. I'm definitely a sagan fan. He's a fun rider to watch. I was nearly arrested for climbing a tree so I could watch him cross the line at atoc in front of staples center. I can't wait to see him take the green. But.... he's on drugs. They're all on drugs, let's not be naive.

[oldpotatoe]

I heard Peter Sagan shops exclusively at rapha.cc

He was like 11 minutes down yesterday. If he was contesting the finish, I'd be suspicious. He didn't.

[BillG]

He was like 11 minutes down yesterday. If he was contesting the finish, I'd be suspicious. He didn't.


You'd be suspicious that he was shopping at Rapha?;)

[oldpotatoe]

You'd be suspicious that he was shopping at Rapha?;)

Probably the wrong response to hook my response to I guess. I like Rapha, just can't afford it, even at wholesale.

[SEABREEZE]

You dont see Pro soccer, or basketball games played 28 days in sucesssion, There are days in between to rest and recover so they can be at there optimum. So maybe the question is, do we need to restructure races such as the Tour de Giro, France & Spain , so when super performance happens like Pale for soccer and Jordan for basketball, we will see they are the real deal. Perhaps we are asking the human body to perform way beyond its abilites. Is this healthy, or will the particpants pay for it as they age.


If it continues like it is, there will always be questions in the back of many minds.

[Fixed]

Racing a bike is not about health
You are on the verge sickness most of the season
IMHO cheers :)

[witcombusa]

You dont see Pro soccer, or basketball games played 28 days in sucesssion, There are days in between to rest and recover so they can be at there optimum. So maybe the question is, do we need to restructure races such as the Tour de Giro, France & Spain , so when super performance happens like Pale for soccer and Jordan for basketball, we will see they are the real deal. Perhaps we are asking the human body to perform way beyond its abilites. Is this healthy, or will the particpants pay for it as they age.


If it continues like it is, there will always be questions in the back of many minds.

So then you have ruled out PEDs in football and basketball :confused:

It's not about health obviously, it's about money and ego as always

[Jason E]

Where is the button so I can:

[x] Like

Fixed's posts?

[x] Gets it

That would work,too.

[SEABREEZE]

It's not about health obviously, it's about money and ego as always

Bravo... , exactly my point, you cant spend all that money with out your health.

As Fixed also mentioned, they are always on the verge of being sick.. I thought most ride to enjoy it and health benefits, I guess not the ones who aim for fame and fortune.

[54ny77]

Speaking of Leakygas, interesting use of words by Pozzato... Woops!

“Others often wear you out with work. He knows how to dose work and above all recovery. At the highest level, that makes the difference.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pozzato-details-ferrari-relationship

[shuke]

Some people have alluded to this previously, but Sagan is truly just a freak of nature. The tell tale sign of doping is continual average performance followed closely thereafter by breakout amazing performance. Sagan however has had continually good performances with reasonable gains. He has been a world class athlete since he was a junior and still is now. If he's doping, he's not doing anything the other guys aren't.

[jds108]

I'm also impressed by the no-hands wheelie he can do. Jeez, as a kid I never had the coordination to do a respectable wheelie. I'd never try it while clipped in. For some (most?) of us, that's a recipe for trouble.

There is a bit of video out there of this at the end of stage 7. The crowd loved it!

[witcombusa]

Some people have alluded to this previously, but Sagan is truly just a freak of nature. The tell tale sign of doping is continual average performance followed closely thereafter by breakout amazing performance. Sagan however has had continually good performances with reasonable gains. He has been a world class athlete since he was a junior and still is now. If he's doping, he's not doing anything the other guys aren't.


That's the whole point

[jpw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onamrs8jx2I&feature=related

Yes, he's weal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItBV9CVJEoo&feature=related

[mdeeds71]

Deleted... Decided not to go down the rabbit hole

[witcombusa]

With a wife from his stomping grounds and her personal knowledge of the man to include recent... Many are way off base about him here.

man?

he's still a boy!

Off base? I doubt it...

[mdeeds71]

Deleted-not going down this rabbit hole!

[tannhauser]

What a train wreck.

[slidey]

I'm actually quite delighted that Sagan has been dropped on the last three days consistently and he's not even close to contesting the GC! I hope to see him getting dropped in the coming few climbing days as well.

To me, this shows that it was actually just Sagan, au naturale (with high probability), on those first 3~5 days. I really hope that trend continues!

[Jason E]

I'm actually quite delighted that Sagan has been dropped on the last three days consistently and he's not even close to contesting the GC! I hope to see him getting dropped in the coming few climbing days as well.

To me, this shows that it was actually just Sagan, au naturale (with high probability), on those first 3~5 days. I really hope that trend continues!

You must have been the only person thinking he was not going to caravan in the last few days. Good thing you started an accusatory thread "just in case" because you don't understand the sport or the players.

[slidey]

Cheers mate...you're the only one who gets this sport!

You must have been the only person thinking he was not going to caravan in the last few days. Good thing you started an accusatory thread "just in case" because you don't understand the sport or the players.