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choke
07-01-2012, 08:05 PM
Evie Stevens continues to impress. I doubt she'll keep it to the end but who knows? She seems to have a lot of drive and determination.

Evie Stevens (Specialized-lululemon) rode herself into the race lead of the 2012 Giro d’Italia Femminile, between Vernio and Castiglione dei Pepoli, with a late solo attack. The American jumped clear of a four-rider group in the final two and a half kilometres, leaving race leader Marianne Vos (Rabobank), Emma Pooley (AA Drink-Leontien.nl) and five-time race winner Fabiana Luperini (Faren-Honda) behind.

Stevens crossed the line twenty seconds clear of the three-way sprint for second, which was taken by Luperini, ahead of Pooley, with Vos a further eleven seconds back. Time bonuses on the line for Stevens, and with Vos missing out, meant that the American took the first Maglia Rosa of her career.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12262/Giro-Donne-Double-day-on-stage-three-puts-Evie-Stevens-in-the-pink.aspx#ixzz1zQ0tptjh

MattTuck
07-01-2012, 08:15 PM
The peloton was all together for the opening kilometres, as Shelley Olds (AA Drink-Leontien.nl) won the intermediate sprint on Vernio’s Via Roma, after 26.8km ahead of Vos and her AA Drink-Leontien.nl teammate Lizzie Armitstead.

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12262/Giro-Donne-Double-day-on-stage-three-puts-Evie-Stevens-in-the-pink.aspx#ixzz1zQ4aZDTH


I went to high school with Shelley. Awesome to see her doing well in the pro ranks. She played soccer through high school and college, and I don't think she discovered her cycling talents until after that.

harryblack
07-01-2012, 09:51 PM
Kudos to Evie for making her own luck with strong drive etc but let's not kid ourselves either--

She's a ** genetic anomaly ** in a ** shallow talent pool. **

That's cool for everyone who used to see her in Central Park and Prospect but it's 90% genetics, 10% everything else-- and yes, I do credit her that 10% just like I did Christine Thorburn (though she was a fine small college x-c & track runner previously).

There's almost no possible equivalency, btw, of a male racer that age coming over to sport with similar results. We could give unlimited $$$ to the best triathlete (not named Lance, hah) or 10K to marathon road runner and they'd never come close.



Evie Stevens continues to impress. I doubt she'll keep it to the end but who knows? She seems to have a lot of drive and determination.


http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12262/Giro-Donne-Double-day-on-stage-three-puts-Evie-Stevens-in-the-pink.aspx#ixzz1zQ0tptjh

r_mutt
07-02-2012, 01:25 AM
women can't win even when they win.

it's a lose-lose situation for poor evie in this crowd. maybe she should just stay at home in the kitchen? :butt:


:mad:

Karin Kirk
07-02-2012, 09:48 AM
women can't win even when they win.

Agreed. I've given up trying to be an advocate for women's racing on this forum. Sad.

tannhauser
07-02-2012, 01:08 PM
Agreed. I've given up trying to be an advocate for women's racing on this forum. Sad.

Some of these guys hate men's racing even more. See above.

That was an amazing ride by Evie.

benitosan1972
07-02-2012, 01:22 PM
I, for one, would rather watch a bunch of women in spandex racing bikes than a bunch of men! ;)

*Shelley Olds is my favorite, she used to be a regular around the Bay Area road/track scene before going pro in Europe... next stop Olympic gold medal steez!

choke
07-02-2012, 08:26 PM
There's almost no possible equivalency, btw, of a male racer that age coming over to sport with similar results. We could give unlimited $$$ to the best triathlete (not named Lance, hah) or 10K to marathon road runner and they'd never come close.Tony Rominger was 25 when he turned pro....I seem to recall that he had a pretty decent palmarès. But I do agree that it's not the norm.

BumbleBeeDave
07-02-2012, 08:30 PM
women can't win even when they win.

it's a lose-lose situation for poor evie in this crowd. maybe she should just stay at home in the kitchen? :butt:

:mad:

. . . and keep on cheering. Women's racing is exciting and wlll continue to get better as more people catch on.

BBD

tannhauser
07-02-2012, 11:39 PM
This is dumb. Leader's jersey going back and forth and no cnews coverage.

Fixed
07-02-2012, 11:43 PM
Steephill ?
Cheers :)

harryblack
07-02-2012, 11:56 PM
Please, spare us the 'poor Evie' schtick... an INVESTMENT BANKER finds out she's genetic .0001% and takes off... That's cool but hardly earth shattering.

Yeah, she's a real 'inspiration' too-- I've heard that one often in NYC. Inspiring? How so?

99.999% of the people reading this could-- relative to age/gender/physique-- train with the exact quantity/quality/assistance (nutrition, massage, etc) and not achieve a FRACTION of the results.

As for people not respecting women's cycling, who gave Liz Hatch contracts, and why?

tannhauser
07-03-2012, 12:11 AM
Please, spare us the 'poor Evie' schtick... an INVESTMENT BANKER finds out she's genetic .0001% and takes off... That's cool but hardly earth shattering.

Yeah, she's a real 'inspiration' too-- I've heard that one often in NYC. Inspiring? How so?

99.999% of the people reading this could-- relative to age/gender/physique-- train with the exact quantity/quality/assistance (nutrition, massage, etc) and not achieve a FRACTION of the results.

As for people not respecting women's cycling, who gave Liz Hatch contracts, and why?

Yawn.

GuyGadois
07-03-2012, 12:55 AM
Kudos to Evie for making her own luck with strong drive etc but let's not kid ourselves either--

She's a ** genetic anomaly ** in a ** shallow talent pool. **

That's cool for everyone who used to see her in Central Park and Prospect but it's 90% genetics, 10% everything else-- and yes, I do credit her that 10% just like I did Christine Thorburn (though she was a fine small college x-c & track runner previously).

There's almost no possible equivalency, btw, of a male racer that age coming over to sport with similar results. We could give unlimited $$$ to the best triathlete (not named Lance, hah) or 10K to marathon road runner and they'd never come close.

Strange post. I'm not sure I understand it. Are you saying that we really shouldn't watch or root for Evie because in women's cycling it's 90% genetics and that women's cycling is a shallow gene pool? If one is genetically superior should we not root for them? Is your point that only in women's sport can someone go from one sport to the top of another? Didn't Eric Heiden go from gold medalist in skating to TDF rider in a short time? What a strange And totally sexist post.

GG

PS I've had the opportunity to ride with Ina-Yoko Teutenberg several times and it is unbelievable how fast the top pro ladies are. She live here in SLO and is one nice person http://www.highroadsports.com/team/43-Ina-Yoko-Teutenberg

Louis
07-03-2012, 01:29 AM
Please, spare us the 'poor Evie' schtick... an INVESTMENT BANKER finds out she's genetic .0001% and takes off... That's cool but hardly earth shattering.

Dude, lighten up.

So now we can only talk about stories like this if they are "earth shattering?"

The OP said that she "continues to impress" not that she discovered a cure for cancer.

I won't begrudge her some success, whether she was an investment banker or flipping burgers at McD. Either way, it's a neat story.

wtex
07-03-2012, 01:34 AM
Wow, I don't know if this thread has an anti Evie, or more generally an anti women's cycling element? But going with the former, was Evie supposed to come up thru the junior cycling program? Would she be more legit then?

54ny77
07-03-2012, 09:57 AM
Evie story is awesome.

Local kid done AMAZING.

Don't criticize; instead, support it!

fiamme red
07-03-2012, 10:09 AM
Is your point that only in women's sport can someone go from one sport to the top of another? Didn't Eric Heiden go from gold medalist in skating to TDF rider in a short time?What is even more amazing about Evelyn Stevens is that she had no background in endurance sports. I believe that she was on the varsity tennis team at Dartmouth.

goonster
07-03-2012, 10:17 AM
INVESTMENT BANKER
The salient point in her story being that she left that behind to chase the $26,000 dream.

Genetic jackpot and shallow gene pool, or not, Ms. Stevens has turned her potential into world-class achievement, and that deserves recognition.

cycle_chic
07-03-2012, 10:22 AM
Went to the Montecatini stage yesterday and it was really neat to watch a women's pro race. I've never experienced one in person before, so it was quite eye-opening to see just how casual the finish was compared to that of a men's pro race.

I was hanging out by the finish, and when each woman crossed the line, they went and sat down on the sidewalk, propped their bikes up against a railing, and had their soigneurs wipe down their arms with baby wipes while they talked strategy for the next stage.

You could literally just walk up to them and start talking or taking pictures. No big crowds of people pushing to get a glance at the riders.

I took a pic of Marianne Vos finishing, as well as Evelyn Stevens.

After walking around for a bit and looking at bikes and riders, I was surprised to see just how small these women are. I guess I'd never realized just how tiny they were on TV or in pictures online. If only I were half a foot shorter, then I'd surely be a pro...:p

christian
07-03-2012, 10:45 AM
I was surprised to see just how small these women are.Have you been to a men's race? Wee little folk there, too! :)

fiamme red
07-03-2012, 10:54 AM
"Deviation car"? I suppose that means "Detour"? :)

Nice photos, cycle_chic.

harryblack
07-03-2012, 07:19 PM
Anti-women's cycling? Not me but how many WOMEN do you know WGAS about women's cycling? I'll wait in case the # gets above twenty and you need to run for a scrap a paper. It's very tired argument when ya'll try to guilt trip anyone about something even most women w/ an interest in female athletics don't care about.

Also, there's NOTHING "amazing" about Stevens except her genetics; 90% of her work or more was already done for her. Maybe give her some credit for not taking up chain smoking tho' it's likely even that would have been overcome.

How much ya'll want to bet Evie could NOT accomplish similar feats had she decided to become a runner? She still has the engine yes but she'd be going against an exponentially more competitive field. (And-- lo and behold-- that is one reason more people follow women's distance running than cycling.)

As noted, it's cool she's OK with the 10% training/mental strategy/nutrition she needed but otherwise, yah, any sport where even a genetic anomaly can jump right to the top in is rather suspect...

Even teenage Lance got his ass handed to him most times, not to mention pre-cancer Lance etc.

tannhauser
07-03-2012, 08:29 PM
Anti-women's cycling? Not me but how many WOMEN do you know WGAS about women's cycling? I'll wait in case the # gets above twenty and you need to run for a scrap a paper. It's very tired argument when ya'll try to guilt trip anyone about something even most women w/ an interest in female athletics don't care about.

Also, there's NOTHING "amazing" about Stevens except her genetics; 90% of her work or more was already done for her. Maybe give her some credit for not taking up chain smoking tho' it's likely even that would have been overcome.

How much ya'll want to bet Evie could NOT accomplish similar feats had she decided to become a runner? She still has the engine yes but she'd be going against an exponentially more competitive field. (And-- lo and behold-- that is one reason more people follow women's distance running than cycling.)

As noted, it's cool she's OK with the 10% training/mental strategy/nutrition she needed but otherwise, yah, any sport where even a genetic anomaly can jump right to the top in is rather suspect...

Even teenage Lance got his ass handed to him most times, not to mention pre-cancer Lance etc.

Oh yeah, the doping argument. Somehow forgot about that.

fiamme red
07-03-2012, 08:36 PM
This is dumb. Leader's jersey going back and forth and no cnews coverage.Again today, they just give the results, no report.

SPOILER AHEAD:




Tiffany Cromwell finished 8:33 ahead of the pack and moved into fifth overall.

Here's an interview with her from a couple of years ago:

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=7984

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/interviews/tiff-stairs.jpg

harryblack
07-03-2012, 08:37 PM
Wasn't implying that at all, Elsa...

The point was competition and how even an extremely gifted and trained athlete like Lance regularly got his ass beat.

Evie meanwhile can go into pro women's cycling and while obviously not winning everything is performing at a FAR higher level than someone of her extremely modest background should.

Like I said, that's 90% genetics-- maybe even 95%... and except as statistics, not something to be "impressed" by nor certainly not something to give anyone-- male or female-- grief over not caring about.

But hey, maybe she'll prove us all wrong and switch to triathlon or road racing when the bike thing is over. Maybe she's the female LA, maybe she's ony JaJa or Udo Bolts-- let's see!!

Oh yeah, the doping argument. Somehow forgot about that.

tannhauser
07-03-2012, 09:15 PM
Wasn't implying that at all, Elsa...

The point was competition and how even an extremely gifted and trained athlete like Lance regularly got his ass beat.

Evie meanwhile can go into pro women's cycling and while obviously not winning everything is performing at a FAR higher level than someone of her extremely modest background should.

Like I said, that's 90% genetics-- maybe even 95%... and except as statistics, not something to be "impressed" by nor certainly not something to give anyone-- male or female-- grief over not caring about.

But hey, maybe she'll prove us all wrong and switch to triathlon or road racing when the bike thing is over. Maybe she's the female LA, maybe she's ony JaJa or Udo Bolts-- let's see!!

That's a better, more lucid rendering of your original opinion. You're welcome, Brunnhilde.

bikerboy337
07-03-2012, 09:15 PM
I'm going to ignore about half teh comments in this thread as they're pointless.

I think it a great story and am thrilled to see she's having success. Keep it up. Glad to see that womens pro cycling is getting some press, even if its just a little bit. How anyone can take her story and try to find fault in it is beyond me.

Cycle Chic - awsome that you made it there, sounds like you're having a great summer in italy!

choke
07-03-2012, 10:00 PM
Again today, they just give the results, no report. Here you go, it's small but at least something - http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/tiffany-cromwell-solos-to-giro-donne-stage-5-win_227407

GuyGadois
07-04-2012, 12:35 AM
Anti-women's cycling? Not me but how many WOMEN do you know WGAS about women's cycling? I'll wait in case the # gets above twenty and you need to run for a scrap a paper. It's very tired argument when ya'll try to guilt trip anyone about something even most women w/ an interest in female athletics don't care about.

Also, there's NOTHING "amazing" about Stevens except her genetics; 90% of her work or more was already done for her. Maybe give her some credit for not taking up chain smoking tho' it's likely even that would have been overcome.

How much ya'll want to bet Evie could NOT accomplish similar feats had she decided to become a runner? She still has the engine yes but she'd be going against an exponentially more competitive field. (And-- lo and behold-- that is one reason more people follow women's distance running than cycling.)

As noted, it's cool she's OK with the 10% training/mental strategy/nutrition she needed but otherwise, yah, any sport where even a genetic anomaly can jump right to the top in is rather suspect...

Even teenage Lance got his ass handed to him most times, not to mention pre-cancer Lance etc.

Wow, pointless gibberish. The whole basis of your negative comments is that we should ignore athletes that are "gifted". Your lame assessment of 90-95 genetics is nothing more then a pointless stab in the dark. For arguments sake, let's assume her genetics are 100%. Is this a reason that we should no longer want her to succeed? Did she break your heart in 5th grade?

Guy Gadois

FlashUNC
07-04-2012, 01:03 AM
Pretty fun to see, especially after the year Marianne Vos had last year -- really, it put Phillipe Gilbert's to shame.

Forget the haters. Racing's racing, imo.

Jaq
07-04-2012, 01:05 AM
I'm going to ignore about half teh comments in this thread as they're pointless.

Out of 30 or so comments so far, there have only been four negative comments, and all by the same person. The rest are overwhelmingly positive and in support of not just Evie but women's cycling in general.

Don't let one bad apple spoil the barrel.

harryblack
07-04-2012, 10:04 AM
Correct. And let's see all the great 'supporters' of women's bike racing forego their next $3,000-8,000 bike and put that towards...

women's cycling sponsorship instead?

Don't all rush for your checkbooks at once!!

Women's bike racing-- "epic" 70 to 80 mile stages, woo, I almost soiled my pink Rapha panties-- is fine, it's usually VERY boring (with some spring finish exceptions), but ok, most men's Cat III bike racing is boring too.

The idea that anyone is "owed" or "deserves" more coverage of women's bike racing is absurd until YOU step up to pay for it.

Out of 30 or so comments so far, there have only been four negative comments, and all by the same person. The rest are overwhelmingly positive and in support of not just Evie but women's cycling in general.

Don't let one bad apple spoil the barrel.

Fixed
07-04-2012, 10:36 AM
What guy that rides a bike does not enjoy watching beautiful talented woman racing their bikes ?
Nobody I want to know
Cheers :)

tannhauser
07-04-2012, 12:35 PM
Correct. And let's see all the great 'supporters' of women's bike racing forego their next $3,000-8,000 bike and put that towards...

women's cycling sponsorship instead?

Don't all rush for your checkbooks at once!!

Women's bike racing-- "epic" 70 to 80 mile stages, woo, I almost soiled my pink Rapha panties-- is fine, it's usually VERY boring (with some spring finish exceptions), but ok, most men's Cat III bike racing is boring too.

The idea that anyone is "owed" or "deserves" more coverage of women's bike racing is absurd until YOU step up to pay for it.

And...we're back on our high horse. Nice, Ursula.

bozman
07-04-2012, 01:22 PM
The salient point in her story being that she left that behind to chase the $26,000 dream.

Genetic jackpot and shallow gene pool, or not, Ms. Stevens has turned her potential into world-class achievement, and that deserves recognition.

+1

I, for one, enjoy reading about her accomplishments. Her story is amazing and I am a fan.

false_Aest
07-04-2012, 01:45 PM
What exactly is this thread about?

Evie?
The Giro D?
Dudes downplaying someone else's athletic performance while they're sitting on their asses in front of a computer?

Come on.

Any dude that ****$ on women's cycling needs to spend a season watching how quickly women start to "get it" while dudes' egos continue to ride bikes well into Cat 2.

While you might be speaking about a specific event or a specific female pro what you're missing is that the negativity seeps downward. My GF is a effin awesome rider and, next to the mechanics, the most knowledgeable at the LBS. The biggest thing she has to battle against is convincing women that their pursuit of the sport (recreational or competitive) is a worthwhile pursuit and not just a lame "women thing."
....

Brahs,

You'd do well to simply ride with a lady instead of trying to impress her by riding too fast for her to hold your wheel. You'd do well to chat up a women on a bike simply because its another person on a bike and not because you think that once you're done she's gonna model her bibs just like the Assos girl--just for you. And, when there's a lady that kicks your ass (happens out here frequently) you don't pull some bull**** fetishization of strong women or try to prove that you're just as strong by pulling around and giving yourself a heart attack while she rides comfortably in your fat-ass draft.

false_Aest
07-04-2012, 01:49 PM
What guy that rides a bike does not enjoy watching beautiful talented woman racing their bikes ?
Nobody I want to know
Cheers :)

Fixed, its a nice sentiment but how bout simply watching a talented women? Why does it also have to be about looks? It's bull**** fetishization.

Fixed
07-04-2012, 02:02 PM
Fixed, its a nice sentiment but how bout simply watching a talented women? Why does it also have to be about looks? It's bull**** fetishization.
sorry to upset you but if ..
you look at one of my last post I said V. Nibali looked beautiful on the bike too . It's the blending of athelte and machine that is beautiful IMHO
Cheers

tannhauser
07-04-2012, 02:45 PM
Fixed, its a nice sentiment but how bout simply watching a talented women? Why does it also have to be about looks? It's bull**** fetishization.

Let's face it -- it's about looks, talent, respect, all of it.

The same woman who wins the Giro will also wear lipstick, get her hair done and look great during a night on the town. She wants to look pretty then; what's wrong with admiring her beauty, in various forms, when she's on the bike? It's the same person, different facets.

false_Aest
07-04-2012, 03:24 PM
Let's face it -- it's about looks, talent, respect, all of it.

The same woman who wins the Giro will also wear lipstick, get her hair done and look great during a night on the town. She wants to look pretty then; what's wrong with admiring her beauty, in various forms, when she's on the bike? It's the same person, different facets.

Nothing is wrong with admiring beauty. But all too often women are described as "talented and beautiful" whereas men are just "talented." Speaking directly about one's talent places the weight fully and firmly in one place. Addressing looks de-emphasizes the talent... addressing looks means that the "hottie" gets more press.

Compare Liz Hatch with Emma Pooley. I'd wager that Liz is more of a household name than Emma even though she's got far less palmares. If Emma had Liz's (lack of...comparatively speaking) wins she'd be 100% ignored.

Whatever.

r_mutt
07-04-2012, 03:31 PM
Correct. And let's see all the great 'supporters' of women's bike racing forego their next $3,000-8,000 bike and put that towards...

women's cycling sponsorship instead?

Don't all rush for your checkbooks at once!!

Women's bike racing-- "epic" 70 to 80 mile stages, woo, I almost soiled my pink Rapha panties-- is fine, it's usually VERY boring (with some spring finish exceptions), but ok, most men's Cat III bike racing is boring too.

The idea that anyone is "owed" or "deserves" more coverage of women's bike racing is absurd until YOU step up to pay for it.

support doesn't have to come in the form of money. support can mean that you don't go spouting off negative comments to belittle something. what exactly did that achieve? what did you support by donating 3-4 thousand dollars too?

the issue with women's sports in general is that there's no coverage. imho, women's cycling would grow if they raced at the same events the men did- much like tennis. look at the coverage women's tennis gets at the grand slam events- they get just as much coverage as the men. thats where the UCI could start.

1happygirl
07-04-2012, 03:43 PM
As I woman, I love the coverage but see both sides of it.

As a market, I don't know that I would necessarily watch as much or more.
If the men's final of Wimbledon was on at the same time as the women's , I would probably watch the men's.
So as women, we have to support too. I see the financial side of it also.
This is nothing specific to cycling or any of the current players involved. I'm kinda torn about all sports now as too much $$$ involved. The purity is gone.

cycle_chic
07-04-2012, 03:43 PM
Nothing is wrong with admiring beauty. But all too often women are described as "talented and beautiful" whereas men are just "talented." Speaking directly about one's talent places the weight fully and firmly in one place. Addressing looks de-emphasizes the talent... addressing looks means that the "hottie" gets more press.


Whatever.

+1,000. Thank you for saying this. How often do you see a male cyclist posing nude/semi-nude in a cycling magazine with just a Chris King hub covering his Johnson? Oh, that's right, you don't!



the issue with women's sports in general is that there's no coverage. imho, women's cycling would grow if they raced at the same events the men did- much like tennis. look at the coverage women's tennis gets at the grand slam events- they get just as much coverage as the men. thats where the UCI could start.
I totally agree with this.

T.J.
07-04-2012, 04:44 PM
i am a supporter of womens racing. problem is women arent supporters of womens racing. i'm a cat2 as is my wife. my races will run between 50~100 deep. Hers are lucky to break double digits. she bailed and now does tri's because of it

false_Aest
07-04-2012, 06:01 PM
i am a supporter of womens racing. problem is women arent supporters of womens racing. i'm a cat2 as is my wife. my races will run between 50~100 deep. Hers are lucky to break double digits. she bailed and now does tri's because of it

TJ you're right but a big part of women not supporting women's cycling is that men do a really effin good job of pushing them away from the sport before they even get to the racing part.

I've seen more than a few Friday rides turn into ego rides. When my GF first started riding she and another girl went on ride with some dudes who decided to show off by riding hard...and dropping them. How many threads mention Liz Hatch's assets or the Assos girl? How many male LBS clerks take the time to understand women's fit issues? How many LBS managers try to find female employees to address these issues? Carly has more than a dozen dedicated customers simply because she's a she and they feel comfortable talking to her.

When dudes make the sport more accessible and stop behaving like douche-dudes women will start building their own community. I've seen it happen in Pittsburgh, Chicago and the LBS is working on it here in LA.

firerescuefin
07-04-2012, 08:11 PM
the issue with women's sports in general is that there's no coverage. imho, women's cycling would grow if they raced at the same events the men did- much like tennis. look at the coverage women's tennis gets at the grand slam events- they get just as much coverage as the men. thats where the UCI could start.

Men's racing receives fringe coverage at best. Watch the Tour of California, where an NHL pregame show takes out the last 2k of a stage. Networks aren't lining up (especially in the US) to show pro tour racing. The US men's NC this year was amongsts the most pathetic coverage I have ever seen.

How's the WNBA working out. They get plenty of coverage. It's been hemoraging money since it's inceptions and it's numbers aren't getting any better.

As a spectator, some women's sports translate better than others IMO. With some sports, they just look like less athletic men. It's almost like MLS (Men)...compared to the Premiership. I find MLS unwatchable.

For me, events like Tennis or Women's World Cup are riveting....other sports, not so much....YMMV

I don't think people need to apologize for not finding women's cycling exciting to watch....or for thinking it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

The local groups I have been a part of, the women have been looked after.....other than the resident @sshole (which we all ride with) have they haven't been mistreated. Face it, there's no shortage of jerks participating in the "sport" of cycling. I find very few people I have raced with living in the gray areas. I either really like them or fantasize about putting them over the barriers. Women find the same barriers to entry that men do, they just seem less tolerant of the BS.

tannhauser
07-04-2012, 08:58 PM
Nothing is wrong with admiring beauty. But all too often women are described as "talented and beautiful" whereas men are just "talented." Speaking directly about one's talent places the weight fully and firmly in one place. Addressing looks de-emphasizes the talent... addressing looks means that the "hottie" gets more press.

Compare Liz Hatch with Emma Pooley. I'd wager that Liz is more of a household name than Emma even though she's got far less palmares. If Emma had Liz's (lack of...comparatively speaking) wins she'd be 100% ignored.

Whatever.

Yeah, agree. Liz did "all that" to herself and got herself pretty far for her talent level, so she chose the objectification route, not guys.

Pooley's bobbing style bugs me, but there's no denying her talent.