Single speed dilemma - Established builder or rising star?

[scottcw2]

Having decided that my next purchase will be a single speed, I have narrowed it down to 2 complete bikes...

A Vanilla (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=105427)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dbuCWvqpzaE/TzLfl6HOvGI/AAAAAAAACJ8/fjyhvqSS95c/s1600/VS+wholebike

Or a Six Eleven (http://www.boxdogbikes.com/six-eleven-bicycle-co/)

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3022/5801067282_f3e5f772af_b.jpg

The advantage of the Vanilla is that Sacha is an established builder with a long history. The appeal of the Six Eleven is that Aaron is a rising star that looks to someday be in Sacha's league. I like the idea of being an early adopter.

The Vanilla is a traditional SS with standard parts. The Six Eleven is a NAHBS show bike with the carbon drive train, S&S couplers and center-pull brakes.

I am looking for feedback on what would sway you one way or the other when considering two builders. Thanks in advance.

[christian]

The Vanilla looks 2cm bigger, at least. So that would sway me in some direction. The direction that fits.

[scottcw2]

The Vanilla looks 2cm bigger, at least. So that would sway me in some direction. The direction that fits.

I think that is an illusion of the pics. The Vanilla is 59 ST X 57 TT and the Six Eleven is around 59 both.

[Fixed]

Both are great looking ,depends on what you want out of a bike
Can't go wrong with either if they fit IMHO
Cheers

[TMB]

6-11 ....

[MattTuck]

You answered the question yourself. you like the idea of being an early adopter.

Vanilla will probably hold its value better, if that is a concern, unless the other builder really busts out.

picking a builder before the build is a big deal because you want someone who will be good to work with and build what you want. since you are just deciding between two existing frames, I'd go with the one you like the best.

i'd vote for vanilla, as I like the color better, and think vanilla has more cachet. that's me.

if they both fit, that is.

[rugbysecondrow]

Option B.

Couplers are the driver for me, also the drive train.

I have a couplered SS bike and I love it. It is a great ride and very versitle and fun.

Also, it looks like the newbie bike would accomodate fatter tires.

[rePhil]

The belt would be the deal breaker for me. I would go with the Vanilla

[DRZRM]

For resale issues I'd likely go with the Vanilla. I've have a single speed Jonny Cycles listed here for under $1k (also asking for best offer) that retailed for something like $4,000. I don't think that would be a problem with one of Sacha's frames.

On the other hand, SS make great coupled travel bikes, they are so easy to set up, so that might sway me.

Or you could buy my bike, 59.5 TT. :p

Jonny Cycles SS frame or complete (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=109410)

[JayBay]

I LOVE the color scheme on that Vanilla. I'm a sucker for orange bikes anyway, but that thing sure is puuuurty.

[christian]

Since you're asking for opinions on the internet:

Campy Record Pista is good stuff, so that's one plus for the Vanilla. Other than that, I'm not sold - I think the polished lugs are overly decorative, the red/orange doesn't work for me, and it's got a no offset (looks like custom) post.

But that green thing is a mess. It looks like one of those Civilian (Pope) Urban Corduroy Baboon or whatever they're called. And I'm not intending that as a compliment.

Agreed on resale, though.

[jr59]

I like the orange bike for how it looks. I like the shinny lugs and drop bars.

But, if I thought I would need/use the couplers on a bike, I would get the green one. Besides, packing a belt drive bike would be so clean and easy.

Besides, the belt drive runs so smooth!

[scottcw2]

Interesting that there is about a 50/50 split for wildly various reasons. My request is less about which of these 2 bikes would you choose and more about how you narrow down a winner when choosing between two or more bikes.

Anyway, I break these down as follows:

Vanilla

More of a "road" bike (skinny tires, side pull brakes, drop bars, etc.)
Higher resale value
Better brand recognition (directly tied to resale value)


Six Eleven

More versatile (bigger tires, brake clearance)
Possibly less expensive
Carbon drive train = less hassle
S&S couplers for travel/storage


Appreciate the feedback, keep it comin'.

[Fixed]

The six ,You can ride it anywhere it can go anywhere and it goes in a suitcase


A few years ago I would have said
the van.
The thing with the van is you would have to fight off a bunch of skinny girl admirers .
cheers

[EricEstlund]

Buy the one that moves you- everything we say is mostly just noise. They have different looks, different builders, different part spec, and different geo. Figure out what attracted you to those, and weight those factors based on your own measure.

[Earl Gray]

Buy the one that moves you- everything we say is mostly just noise.

+1

For me it would be the 6-11

[scottcw2]

The thing with the van is you would to fight off a bunch of skinny girl admirers.
cheers

How is that a bad thing???

[Fixed]

How is that a bad thing???

that is a selling point
cheers :)

[ngilbert]

Personally, I like the vanilla best. Mostly because of the belt drive on the six.

[Wilkinson4]

611, me likes.

mIKE

[pdmtong]

The vanilla is expensive. Very expensive. But there is a lot of work in there and that is what they go for. New? who knows...the frame alone would be $6k+ IF you could order one.

I have a hard time thinkig that someone in the van queue nowadays will burn there only chip on a SS. I dont have anythign agains t SS, it's just the opty cost of your ONE shot in the queue given a number of other alternatives. Liek the one you presented. Givne that, if you would like a vanilla, this is one of the FEW chances to buy one since list is CLOSED. There arent many used, in a size that fits.

Whle I really like the orange bike, I htink it is still there because $3500 clams is a lot for a SS....no one "needs" all that detail work, so the price reflects paying for it. Look at that SS akleman sold, or the kirk...these were in the $1700-2200 range. thats a lot of clams from $3500.

If you pass on the vanilla, thats cool, but dont expect to see another SS probably ever (oh, I take that back, there was one other one here a few years ago but smaller and no detail work - very very plain. like so plain the only thig going for it was it said vanilla on the DT)

If yo buy the vanilla, I would expect resale attraction to be there but not sure if price will hold as firmly....same reasons above...not everyone wnats a SS and those that do not many will pay $3500 no matter who built it


I personally like the belt (have one) but the S+S does nothgin for me. yes it holds the promise of bike travel but realistically that is not what I do and if I did it would not be with SS - I would want gears for the unknown.

You say you think he will be in sacha's league...I cant judge that, but FWIW the aesthetics of that bike just do not appeal to me


Sacha gets the props since he can execute different build tecyniques (lug, tig, fillet, etc) acorss multope genres (road, city, cross, tour, etc) with quality, craft and aestehtics.

I will stick my necxk out an say you might find 1;1 examples where oither builkders might execute a single bike "as well or better" (whatever thatmeans) as sacha, but who else do you throw in the ring that can do all tha the can do acorss all the styles out there?

Dont take my comments as being too sacha fan-boy or 611-downer.

There is a lot to think anbout, or perhapos not much at all.

so, to summarize

- if you always wanted a vanilla - buy the vanilla. likely this is your only chance
you can always order a 611. you cannot order a vanilla

- if you want to travel or like versatility - get the 611.

- if you cant decide, I think the vanilla is more classic with more apprarent craft and detail. plus you get the campy pista parts!

I dont attribute any value to being an early adopter or up and comer. even sacha's eraly bikes are not (in his words) as reflective of his skils as his later bikes. it can also be said that some of his mid-career bikes (liek I think this one) have a LOT more detail than someone in the queue might typically order and pay for now. For instance I lament the passing of the sterling/stainless script DT logo he used to do.

[Bob Ross]

That Vanilla, geez... totally hawt.

[scottcw2]

I personally like the belt (have one) but the S+S does nothgin for me. yes it holds the promise of bike travel but realistically that is not what I do and if I did it would not be with SS - I would want gears for the unknown.

Interesting point the couplers do nothing for you, that is what had me leaning toward the 611... checked bag on international flights so I could explore on my bike when traveling.

What do you do if you want to cycle when you travel?

[Fixed]

Interesting point the couplers do nothing for you, that is what had me leaning toward the 611... checked bag on international flights so I could explore on my bike when traveling.

What do you do if you want to cycle when you travel?

Suffer on a crappy bike and sit on a saddle that I don't want to think about
Cheers That is what makes s.s so popular :)

[scottcw2]

Suffer on a crappy bike and sit on a saddle that I don't want to think about
Cheers That is what makes s.s so popular :)

Now THAT'S a selling point!

[pdmtong]

Interesting point the couplers do nothing for you, that is what had me leaning toward the 611... checked bag on international flights so I could explore on my bike when traveling.

What do you do if you want to cycle when you travel?

when i travel for work, whether domestically or intl, I barely have time to piss let alon e tour let alone thing about riding.

I have never taken a bike trip for personal, but when I do it will be to utah or whistler to mtb and I will rent a bike. or perhaps one of thoe france or italy tour where I bring my own.

If you have always wanted a vanilla and "connect" with sacha's vibe, then do not pass on this chance. If you are just casually interested, or think, yea, that'd be cool to won but not sure if long term keeper, then pass and dont look back

that you want a ride to take on a plan e pretty much answers the question. if you have any hesitation about the belt, don't. I have a belt trek district and it's the poor man's big box version of that 611. belt is freaking great. quiet. no grease. no hassle,

is it the first gen design or the centerline design?

I

[nmrt]

Countless studies have shown that people do NOT make rational decisions. They rationalize after the decisions are made, often succumbing to the easiest choices.
So, do not think two much. In my eyes, both are extarordinary bikes. Both, as many have pointed out have their merits or demerits.
Close you eyes and let the heart think -- which one would put a bigger smile in your face as you ride it.
Get that one!

[EricEstlund]

Option three: figure out what you like about each and have one made to suit.

[sivat]

I like the 6-11 for the threadless headset. The belt drive is nice too. simple enough to switch it out for a chain if you want, but you have the option for the belt. The belt seems like a much better idea for a travel bike, since you don't have to worry about getting covered in chain grease when you're packing and unpacking it.

[scottcw2]

when i travel for work, whether domestically or intl, I barely have time to piss let alon e tour let alone thing about riding.

I have never taken a bike trip for personal, but when I do it will be to utah or whistler to mtb and I will rent a bike. or perhaps one of thoe france or italy tour where I bring my own.

If you have always wanted a vanilla and "connect" with sacha's vibe, then do not pass on this chance. If you are just casually interested, or think, yea, that'd be cool to won but not sure if long term keeper, then pass and dont look back

that you want a ride to take on a plan e pretty much answers the question. if you have any hesitation about the belt, don't. I have a belt trek district and it's the poor man's big box version of that 611. belt is freaking great. quiet. no grease. no hassle,

is it the first gen design or the centerline design?

I

Thanks for the feedback. I had been envisioning planning travel specifically to tour by bicycle so the 611 was ahead on that count.

Yeah, a Vanilla has long been my dream bike, but the 611 is on display locally here in SF and I fall in love more every time I see it. It's like I'll Have Another charging up on the outside. Usually I go with my gut over my head. In this case, my gut loves both bikes.

[rugbysecondrow]

Its likes choosing between Rebecca Romane Stamos or Beyonce...different of course, but no wrong answer.

[jr59]

well then;

BUY both! :banana:

[pdmtong]

Thanks for the feedback. I had been envisioning planning travel specifically to tour by bicycle so the 611 was ahead on that count.

Yeah, a Vanilla has long been my dream bike, but the 611 is on display locally here in SF and I fall in love more every time I see it. It's like I'll Have Another charging up on the outside. Usually I go with my gut over my head. In this case, my gut loves both bikes.

where is that store? I may be up on the city next week and would love to see it.

I talked Aaron at NAHBS in Feb. Liked his vibe. Clean work. I looked at his site, this bike must be the one in the blog under SS and under belt, right?

that vanilla is over the top. I am not kidding when I estimate $6k+ for the f/f if new. the handwork and polish on each lug doesnt come cheap. so given complete bike, $3000ish is a fair price. its not really orange. I htink if you ask the seller the color doenst phot as well as it looks in person

I love the feel I get when I ride my vanilla. it's a beautiful, albeit "rare" bike" but it didnt change my life. Angels did not sing. it's nice ot have and I got it for me....I ride around an no one I pass por stop next to has yet to comment on it. in fact one guy on a Z3c with SR11 says ...hey, what kinfd of bike is that to me. ... you get the idea. the oo-ahh has to come only from you.

It does have every have a wonderfulls smooth and planted rde quality. It descends like it is on a rail and just feels good all day long. so it isnt all about just being pretty - ride is awesome too

unless the S+S lets you save a ton on luggae fees, the other way to go is to buy a travel case and stick the vanilla in it.

studio velo and above categoryu both use this case and a forumite I know is enroute as we speak to france with his peg in one of these. I guess we can expec to see shots of a peg on alp de huez and col de madeline soon.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-accessories/2012-biknd-helium-air-cushioned-bike-case-10245.3033.0.html

thismust be how it is when you are partying at the playboy mansion. hard to make up one's mnd.

[pdmtong]

Its likes choosing between Rebecca Romane Stamos or Beyonce...different of course, but no wrong answer.

now here is man with an exquisite view of the world. well played rugby....

[scottcw2]

Suddenly, a new contender to the throne...

http://images.craigslist.org/5Nd5Ie5L23L63Ld3Lcc72359eec0aa756177d.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/5Kc5M45J33ma3mc3mfc72553610bcbec61630.jpg

[ultraman6970]

I have seen dykstra work personally. That guy can braze.

[pdmtong]

Suddenly, a new contender to the throne...

http://images.craigslist.org/5Nd5Ie5L23L63Ld3Lcc72359eec0aa756177d.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/5Kc5M45J33ma3mc3mfc72553610bcbec61630.jpg

...you can order one of those up anytime. nice but pedestrian...then again, depends on price, right?

[GuyGadois]

6-11

Saw them at the NAHBS and they were insanely nice.

[fuzzalow]

Vanilla. Experience what one of those is about.

There is nothing about that 6-11 that clicks with me. If the desire for a 6-11 will not subside, then it is possible to simply order one, correct? However, getting a Vanilla is anything but simple so if there's the chance to have a go, take it.

[scottcw2]

...you can order one of those up anytime. nice but pedestrian...then again, depends on price, right?

Yeah, price is the motivator here. Less than 1/3 of the Vanilla.

[christian]

This is starting to be the dumbest thread on the internet.

Whatever happened to that nice maroon Kirk you had? The one with the white lugs?

[Puget Pounder]

Buy the one that moves you- everything we say is mostly just noise. They have different looks, different builders, different part spec, and different geo. Figure out what attracted you to those, and weight those factors based on your own measure.

+1 to this. Perhaps you should figure out what you want out of a bike first and then decide based on that?

[fuzzalow]

Yeah, price is the motivator here. Less than 1/3 of the Vanilla.

Whoa, you mean this was an exercise in champagne tastes and beer budgets? I'll talk anything bikes but if it's purely a flight of fancy, well that's good to know.

This is starting to be the dumbest thread on the internet.

Ha. Were that true, it would imbue this thread with a higher calling.

[pdmtong]

Yeah, price is the motivator here. Less than 1/3 of the Vanilla.

Aldo Gucci once said, “Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten”.

The only thing these three have in common is that they are all SS.

Time to decide where priorities lie...

? travel

? price

? craft

tick-tock-tick-tock

[scottcw2]

This is starting to be the dumbest thread on the internet.

Whatever happened to that nice maroon Kirk you had? The one with the white lugs?

Nobody is forcing you to click on it... feel free to move on. I think there is a cliche about when you don't have something nice to say...

[rugbysecondrow]

Paralysis by analysis...a horrible affliction for sure.

Buy one, any of them and ride the piss out of it.

[Joe Remi]

Deleted. Question already answered.

[scottcw2]

Buy one, any of them and ride the piss out of it.

The first half is done, 2nd half to come.

[rugbysecondrow]

The first half is done, 2nd half to come.

Awesome, what did you choose?

[pdmtong]

Awesome, what did you choose?

the secret was revealed and what I can say is that...

he chose...wisely

[rdparadise]

Don't forget about the wait time for a new Vanilla. From what I understand it is literally several years. Can you really wait that long for your new steed?

I'm partial to a Vanilla myself and you can have him customize for S & S, wider tires, fenders, whatever you want. If YOU CAN WAIT. If not, order the six eleven.

Bob

[pdmtong]

Don't forget about the wait time for a new Vanilla. From what I understand it is literally several years. Can you really wait that long for your new steed?

I'm partial to a Vanilla myself and you can have him customize for S & S, wider tires, fenders, whatever you want. If YOU CAN WAIT. If not, order the six eleven.

Bob

The wait time is years, but only if you are already on the list.

If you are not on the list, the wait time is forever, since the list is closed.

[scottcw2]

Awesome, what did you choose?

Everyone loves Vanilla and I am no exception. Better price, dream bike, courteous seller, done deal.

[Fixed]

Good choice
Cheers

[pdmtong]

Everyone loves Vanilla and I am no exception. Better price, dream bike, courteous seller, done deal.

so exactly how would you describe the color? is it kind of reddish orange?

a friend of mine was interested in buying it when steve originally posted it for his pal. I understand the pics dont do the color justice